Guild Wars 2

Sup guys, I rarely comment on forums but I’d like to show you some insight on s/d core thief.

I’m Hitzer I play thief on NA basically all I do is pvp so this thread is only about pvp mode. I just hit Legendary yesterday playing s/d core thief.

Last patch anet buffed a ton some core specs, I’ve seen a lot of core guardians, wars and even necros but of my 94 matches I’ve seen only one s/d core besides me which makes a lot of sense because DrD dp is a really strong spec that you can’t go wrong with it and also the “new” condi thief build that every player can play it with minimal effort while being super effective vs pugs.

First of all I’ve seen a lot of bs talk about thief builds “DrD is superior” “Condi thief isn’t good” “DE is garbage” and builds in general most people say “yeah whatever works in ranked” and it’s true if you’re good enough you can make any build work to certain extent that’s it.

For example let’s say you want to play d/d power in ranked, you could easily get plat 2 if you’re good you can actually get a good duo and climb but when you’re against a strong duo do you think you will able to beat them with d/d power? the answer is clearly a big no but you would be able to beat them with s/d core.

Let’s define some words, a lot of people say “it is viable” it works" “it does great” but how do you test them and where? in hot join? unranked? ranked? ATs? duels? I won’t say “competitive” because there isn’t a competitive scene anymore.

The build I used to get legendary was tested in both ranked and ATs so with that in mind I can say the following.

Viable – d/d power or whatever other thief build
Good – s/d core power
(condi thief here between good and optimal)
Optimal – d/p dash

I think s/d core is a GOOD build and not only viable or that just works, I’ll explain why.
I won’t say it “beats” because I will trigger a lot of people so I’ll say that it is effective against.
This build focus on boon stripping while doing enough damage to pressure targets and evading a lot, it is really effective vs meta builds on point:

-DH or any Guardian variation(good matchup)
-Ele/Tempest(good matchup)
-Mesmer/Chrono(really good matchup)
-Thieves(neutral but generally it’s a fine matchup)
-Engi/Scrappers (really good matchup)
-Rev(good matchup)
-Core war(50/50 if equal skill, 100-0 if war is worse)
-Necro/Reaper (usually good matchup but the new wall build is a bit more hard)
-Ranger/Druid (only matchup that isn’t worth taking)

Pros:
-good 1v1
-good mobility
-good team fighter (strip boons/immobilize targets)
-good kite (2# and #5 are really good)

Cons:
-bad finisher (does worse than d/p vs low health players)
-no stealth (no opener or stealth combos)
-no dash (lul)

So it may seem biased but again this is only tested in ranked/ATs so please don’t bring your “this build will get destroyed in 5v5” or “lul it doesn’t do damage”. This build has been tested in NA from plat 1 to legendary so the player skill average is not the best but I’ve faced a lot of good players and strong duos and it does well.

Due to the lack of d/p dash thieves I can win practically every 1v1 in time, most of them don’t even last more than 30 seconds but even if the dp dash comes I can kite him decently.
This build is really fun to play for me because it is high risk high reward, if you make a mistake or if you do something wrong you are going to get punished you don’t have stealth or infinite dash evades but if you play well you’re going to get rewarded as it should be in this game.

What’s the point of this thread? Encourage people to play something else than d/p dash or even condi thief that lately has become really popular for obvious reasons.
It is better than d/p dash???? it doesn’t but it plays another role which is going for good matchups and gather people to gain time for your team.

Most of my matches were with a duo partner who also played a core spec, specifically Phantaram (Fresh Air Ele) and Arken (Core bruiser Guard) so I’m not really a tryhard who only wait till certain times and duo with meta builds vs noobs I just want to play the game and have fun.`

Updated:

Matches played – 139
Wins – 107
Loses – 32

Top 5 in NA currently

Of course this is gonna change because I don’t give a single ** about rating but you get the idea.

Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/elxdark

UPDATED:

Build used:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnYhTw3Jw/EHwElOBCgdrHFh4T4TjzoNA-jpxHQBK7QActyAG8EAAgjAQAfAAaY/BA

I play s/d core as well. A number of versions work and mine all but identical to your version two save for my taking different runes and traiting don’t stop.

If you have a reduction of 20 percent from runes/consumables for durations and take don’t stop you are all but immune to movemnet impairing condtions and can removes one everytime you use #2.

This peels off conditions with ease as it gets past the cover conditions so easily

I have tried with Sa/acro/tr , CS/Acro/Tr as well and they both work very well. The former just peels of conditions and rips boons with ease..

I second this guy, he hits my chrono bunker (Hwaito) really hard.

babazhook.6805:

I play s/d core as well. A number of versions work and mine all but identical to your version two save for my taking different runes and traiting don’t stop.

If you have a reduction of 20 percent from runes/consumables for durations and take don’t stop you are all but immune to movemnet impairing condtions and can removes one everytime you use #2.

This peels off conditions with ease as it gets past the cover conditions so easily.

I have tried with Sa/acro/tr , CS/Acro/Tr as well and they both work very well. The former just peels of conditions and rips boons with ease.

Don’t stop is a good trait but I don’t really get immobilized that much I can remove it from both heal and roll for initiative and even with the nerf to upper hand is worth taking.

DA offers too much in comparison to CS or SA at least for pvp DA is almost mandatory, I can see SA or CS working in WvW tho.

Abelisk.4527:

I second this guy, he hits my chrono bunker (Hwaito) really hard.

^
My favorite matchup is mesmer because if I land the 2 steals I get x4 plasma also I love when they use shield and my larcenous strike hits them haha

Elxdark.9702:

DA offers too much in comparison to CS or SA at least for pvp DA is almost mandatory, I can see SA or CS working in WvW tho.

DA with Executioner and Scholars and enough health to scramble out of focus and bombs can even things out wider and faster for you squad in WvW I think. Quickness and CnD into Steal is a nice pin snipe also and bonus stealth to Flanking Strike out of if you don’t want to Tactical Strike, lot of boons to shop around for in WvW, why I pack a lot of concentration. I’m kind of an SMC leech though, I don’t like to work so I like fights to happen fast or I’m out.

I use the leadership runes as coupled with the Acro line my WvW build has significant boon duration. I use in conjunction with the Burst of agility trait and haste itself which gives me ~21 seconds quickness with Haste on a 24 second cooldown. The swiftness off dodge in acro is 11 seconds. (real haste uptime is closer to 50 percent as burst of agility has longer ICD)

That quickness can pound out the damage and makes flanking/larcenous so much easier to pull off.

The SA build works also works surprisingly well. Traiting both BT and RS , it not too difficult to get an enemy down to no boons meaning that the sword 10 percent and the extra 20 percent from no boons on enemy up and running all the time.

This is the one i MIGHT try to get to work with DE/Acro/Sa.

In any case I encourage people to give s/d core a try. It a fun build.

I don’t think this build is a good matchup with Dragonkitteners. You know, they just roll their face and do some dance moves, some sweet moves on their keyboard and the game says: U R DED BOI

But overall, S/D power is some godlike thingie on 1v1s.

Currently trying out durabilty runes in wvw. With 36% boon duration you can steal a lot of uptime from enemy boons. Also would like to try leadership or traveler runes again.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnY5TwwJw/EHwEVvwCxnwnGnRboTgAY3A-TFDEQBE4REAgDEg70H4QlYG4EI8gjIQTUeAIlgwb/B/pWRiUVpNaYCAgAcz2sNvZ28m38mH6QH6QH6Q7628m38mDtUArO0C-w

Nice to see you around again Hitzer, I’m glad I haven’t been the only one messing around with core s/d for pvp. The build I ended up coming to however was this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnYvTwwJw/EHwElPNij2QnABwu1LsQMRB-TpxHQBXrMQAfAAK7IAowTAgI2fAAHCAA

I went towards this spec for the ability to handle condi pretty well without really sacrificing much damage. My big appeal was the 100% reduction of movement impairing condis while you have swiftness (perma) so dash wouldn’t even be missed within gameplay.

Imperadordf.2687:

I don’t think this build is a good matchup with Dragonkitteners. You know, they just roll their face and do some dance moves, some sweet moves on their keyboard and the game says: U R DED BOI

But overall, S/D power is some godlike thingie on 1v1s.

It is actually really effective against dhs, the only thing you need to avoid is the pull.
You have x4 stuns for 3s daze each one and you strip their stability and protection everytime so they can’t really do anything against dazes also your main attack source is sword #3 which is always unblockable applying constanst pressure to dh because they don’t have great mobility.

Ario.8964:

Nice to see you around again Hitzer, I’m glad I haven’t been the only one messing around with core s/d for pvp. The build I ended up coming to however was this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnYvTwwJw/EHwElPNij2QnABwu1LsQMRB-TpxHQBXrMQAfAAK7IAowTAgI2fAAHCAA

I went towards this spec for the ability to handle condi pretty well without really sacrificing much damage. My big appeal was the 100% reduction of movement impairing condis while you have swiftness (perma) so dash wouldn’t even be missed within gameplay.

Thanks mate.

I don’t really have problems with condis in general even if I face a condi thief, I don’t get immobilized that often because I’m always evading or kiting with sword #2 and even so I have the heal + roll for initiative to clean it.
But yeah I can see why people use don’t stop, don’t get me wrong it is a good trait but I don’t see the urge to use it.

Elxdark.9702:

Imperadordf.2687:

I don’t think this build is a good matchup with Dragonkitteners. You know, they just roll their face and do some dance moves, some sweet moves on their keyboard and the game says: U R DED BOI

But overall, S/D power is some godlike thingie on 1v1s.

It is actually really effective against dhs, the only thing you need to avoid is the pull.
You have x4 stuns for 3s daze each one and you strip their stability and protection everytime so they can’t really do anything against dazes also your main attack source is sword #3 which is always unblockable applying constanst pressure to dh because they don’t have great mobility.

Say whatever you want, my hate for those kitteners won’t change.

God kitten Dragonduckers

Do you stream?D: I’m curious to see this build from your pov

FokiFTW.6193:

Do you stream?D: I’m curious to see this build from your pov

I’m trying to setup my stream but even if I can’t make it I’ll record and upload to youtube.

Streaming in a hour or two for everyone who wants to see some dank old school s/d gameplay.

https://www.twitch.tv/elxdark

Thanks you everybody who joined, I’ll try to stream more often because it is really fun.

I’ll link the vod if someone wants to see the build in action, most the matches were free wins but you will get the idea of the build anyway.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/172480211

Great build, reminds me of the old school acro s/d. The short window of absurdly high effectiveness really makes it excel at skirmishing, something sword builds should do.

Off topic, but have you tried running any configuration with Valk or the new hidden killer? Stealth really becomes a limiting factor, but the burst you can shell out with sword in the 100% crit window is extremely high for being a heftier stat set. With that, when combined with revealed training and/or assassin’s signet, the already top ended power Valk gives becomes ludicrous. Really fun build to try out if you enjoy wonky s/d builds, albeit not the most practical. Also a ton of fun with s/p, though the stealth becomes even more of an issue, but 3.15x power conversion on pistol whip with ~3.5k power, 100% crit chance, and ~215% crit damage is pretty hilarious.

:(

Someone found it

Bummer

Yup, that’s pretty much what i run.

Do yourself a favor, Drop IR. pick up PR. people underestimate the healing capacity of thieves. These two traits coupled with evade frames and withdraw make it possible to survive teamfights.

I ran into you on my last game, (3 placement match) awhile ago. using this spec. i was running seekers, not mara. you should try that next. (All about the boons) and um i guess i’m sorry for giving you a loss (friendly poke)

Highlie.7641:

Yup, that’s pretty much what i run.

Do yourself a favor, Drop IR. pick up PR. people underestimate the healing capacity of thieves. These two traits coupled with evade frames and withdraw make it possible to survive teamfights.

I ran into you on my last game, (3 placement match) awhile ago. using this spec. i was running seekers, not mara. you should try that next. (All about the boons) and um i guess i’m sorry for giving you a loss (friendly poke)

I only drop Instant Reflexes for Pain response vs condi comps not even vs 1 condi thief because I have enough condi removal and I can kite him.

At first I went with pain response because I always messed up my dodges when IR was active so in the end it was useless but once you get the timing for it… it’s a really strong trait, it saves your **, it procs the second steal, it gives you vigor from minor trait and regeneration/initiative from upper hand, all of this plus 2 seconds of evade.

It is too good imo, pain response on the other hand is a really good passive too but imagine if you only get bleed and you get the proc, you will only remove the bleed and you will have to wait 16cd next proc while instant reflexes does amazing most of the time and can delete bs combos like guardian burst or shatter mes.

And no you won’t see me running zerk I don’t want to play with 11k hp haha

Xeyon.6419:

Great build, reminds me of the old school acro s/d. The short window of absurdly high effectiveness really makes it excel at skirmishing, something sword builds should do.

Off topic, but have you tried running any configuration with Valk or the new hidden killer? Stealth really becomes a limiting factor, but the burst you can shell out with sword in the 100% crit window is extremely high for being a heftier stat set. With that, when combined with revealed training and/or assassin’s signet, the already top ended power Valk gives becomes ludicrous. Really fun build to try out if you enjoy wonky s/d builds, albeit not the most practical. Also a ton of fun with s/p, though the stealth becomes even more of an issue, but 3.15x power conversion on pistol whip with ~3.5k power, 100% crit chance, and ~215% crit damage is pretty hilarious.

I’m 100% sure that this build could work with CS or SA in WvW, in pvp maybe from bronze to somewhat plat but if you face decent players it would be difficult to use cs or sa because da gives you so much.

Pr is far better then ir imo. It’s always use full and heals a nice bit too, although ir is nice, I feel like it can be triggered just by an aa at range while you’re kiting or something.

Both IR and PR are good choices. PR not only removes conditions , but gives close to full time regen and while it might not seem a lot, through the course of a fight this adds up.

Both PR and IR have the same downside in that you can not always control when they go off. Ie I have used a shadowstep to cleanse conditions and had IR fire up when I was in no real danger and then not there when it later needed.

Upper hand a good skill, but with the nerf to its ICD and the boost to Don’t stop, I prefer don’t stop. Immob immunity and a double cleanse on #2 is just too good. With trickery traited I never found INI a problem .

By the way, get any s/x build working with quickness and you can really lay the hurt on. I would always take burst of agility over TOTC. The might/swiftness added by TOTC just does not do as much for you given it only a single might stack and you have pretty close to full time swiftness out of acro.

I’m not playing your matches so I’m not a good judge of which is better any given match between IR and PR. Match duration is going to be different than a fight in WvW when you’re in a squad or floating so immediate impact and cool downs are always going to be a decision. I’ll run PR until I know I’m getting focused pulled and switch, or I’ll look around at their people before contact and think, that bunch looks shady, I know they’re going to pull and lock down at deliberate times and I’ll leave IR on for awhile.

You’re probably using what you need to use until popular builds shift a little more. So much depends on time zone, region, and servers for different game modes.

try drd with Impacting Disruption and Distracting Daggers. forget dead art, you will find another new world.

really good build, even you duel with a dp thief,you will have 50% win rate

Arlowslol.1974:

try drd with Impacting Disruption and Distracting Daggers. forget dead art, you will find another new world.

really good build, even you duel with a dp thief,you will have 50% win rate

Yeah, I played s/d with DrD and with Distracting Daggers, it was good but DrD feels wrong with s/d I don’t know.

In my opinion DA is a better train line than DrD for S/D, it gives you more utility than just damage and an extra dodge. I miss bandit’s defense tho.

Elxdark.9702:

Arlowslol.1974:

try drd with Impacting Disruption and Distracting Daggers. forget dead art, you will find another new world.

really good build, even you duel with a dp thief,you will have 50% win rate

Yeah, I played s/d with DrD and with Distracting Daggers, it was good but DrD feels wrong with s/d I don’t know.

In my opinion DA is a better train line than DrD for S/D, it gives you more utility than just damage and an extra dodge. I miss bandit’s defense tho.

Impacting Disruption give you more damage with the double steal and Distracting Daggers, it was more than just one dodge, dash give you huge motility and steal for 25% endru.

I dont think DA is as good as DrD.

Arlowslol.1974:

Elxdark.9702:

Arlowslol.1974:

try drd with Impacting Disruption and Distracting Daggers. forget dead art, you will find another new world.

really good build, even you duel with a dp thief,you will have 50% win rate

Yeah, I played s/d with DrD and with Distracting Daggers, it was good but DrD feels wrong with s/d I don’t know.

In my opinion DA is a better train line than DrD for S/D, it gives you more utility than just damage and an extra dodge. I miss bandit’s defense tho.

Impacting Disruption give you more damage with the double steal and Distracting Daggers, it was more than just one dodge, dash give you huge motility and steal for 25% endru.

I dont think DA is as good as DrD.

no, but acro is just as good as dd (please stop calling it DrD, it sounds so dumb) in regards to s/d play style. the only thing i do miss is probably the utility skills from daredevil, you do not need both acro and daredevil, thats so over kill.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Arlowslol.1974:

Elxdark.9702:

Arlowslol.1974:

try drd with Impacting Disruption and Distracting Daggers. forget dead art, you will find another new world.

really good build, even you duel with a dp thief,you will have 50% win rate

Yeah, I played s/d with DrD and with Distracting Daggers, it was good but DrD feels wrong with s/d I don’t know.

In my opinion DA is a better train line than DrD for S/D, it gives you more utility than just damage and an extra dodge. I miss bandit’s defense tho.

Impacting Disruption give you more damage with the double steal and Distracting Daggers, it was more than just one dodge, dash give you huge motility and steal for 25% endru.

I dont think DA is as good as DrD.

no, but acro is just as good as dd (please stop calling it DrD, it sounds so dumb) in regards to s/d play style. the only thing i do miss is probably the utility skills from daredevil, you do not need both acro and daredevil, thats so over kill.

Exactly, I don’t find the urge to use DD if I have acro already, thus DA fits better on this build.

Same build as me, except sigils of courage and exploitation, switching between strength runes and agility runes. Although, I don’t like that in a team upper hand’s regen can block regen from an ally with several hundred healing power, so it makes don’t stop debatable. At the moment I have both RFI and upper hand.

For S/D, core is better than daredevil. Acro replaces it somewhat; you’re still out a dodge after counting improved vigour and the evade from withdraw, and you don’t have dash’s mobility. What you do have, as I said on another thread about 2 weeks ago, is with RFI+infiltrator’s arrow you can cover about the same distance as dash+arrow in 20 seconds, not counting porting in with sword or leaving a return for when you leave.

Two trait lines that do essentially the same thing is a bad idea.
- The survivability GAIN from acro PLUS DrD is less than going from neither to either.
- DrD focuses on dodging just like acro.
- Impacting Disruption is not ideal for S/D because it won’t be utilised as much, or means taking Distracting Daggers.
- Escapists absolution is great for S/D, but you have cleanse in sword 2, agility signet, and shadow step. This is already more than D/P has. Why sacrifice yet more damage for more cleanse? Let your support do their job. Plus, if needed, you have the optional Pain Response anyway with acro.
- Endurance Thief only returns 25 endurance on successful steal in PvP now.
- Dash is awkward with S/D because since the swiftness affecting movement skills change, the dash distance makes a follow up flanking strike easily avoidable.
- Dash is used by D/P for mobility and as a faster escape/disengage which it lacked compared to S/D before HoT. Sword is designed already to get in and out.
- DrD’s heal on evade is similar to Mug’s heal with 2x steal, plus Mug does damage.
- The only traits worth considering taking DrD for are Bounding Dodger and Havoc Mastery. Mug’s damage is instant rather than 7% boost and so competes with Havoc Mastery. DA gives you +10% vs condi inflicted vs Bounding Dodger, and then you get Improvisation which, while cannot be triggered twice in 20s with both steals, but it does mean to have 2 shots at it if you miss a steal. Poison on steal is also now twice as good with swindler’s equilibrium.

The only trait line that may have contested DA would be CS since you can maintain 25 stacks of might with it with permanent fury. However, Improvisation - especially without physical skills in the pool for instant recharge - is just too good.

Still seeing a lot of s/d daredevil’s in wvw and not core s/d, weird because I though with double steal you would drop daredevil.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Still seeing a lot of s/d daredevil’s in wvw and not core s/d, weird because I though with double steal you would drop daredevil.

Only if you can land it. Plus, core S/D used to switch between S/D and SB a lot more than thieves now do. It’s a bit of an adjustment.

One added advantage CS has over DA is with the Fury and might stacking there less reason to take TOTC. This frees you up to get quickness via Burst of Agility. I just love quickness on sword.

That said it IS hard to give up improv.

I also have a s/d build that use SA and it a lot of fun and very effective at boon theft.

I expect we will see more s/d users in DE as well as that offers some very real options.

babazhook.6805:

One added advantage CS has over DA is with the Fury and might stacking there less reason to take TOTC. This frees you up to get quickness via Burst of Agility. I just love quickness on sword.

That said it IS hard to give up improv.

I also have a s/d build that use SA and it a lot of fun and very effective at boon theft.

I expect we will see more s/d users in DE as well as that offers some very real options.

I can’t wait for PoF, I already tested a s/d DE build that was really solid and I still have to test 2-3 more builds that I have in mind.

And s/d DE is gonna be way better than core thief so I’m pretty excited.

Well, I think the success of the build was more dependent on your skill level than the build itself! Haven’t gotten used to it yet

I updated the build, I really don’t know why I didn’t test strength runes with the strength sigil, you can easily stack 6-7 might in any fight, thus you will have the most damage output without losing too much from other runes.