Guild Wars 2

I don’t play thief. I tried it years ago but failed. I suck at it.

But I see the value in having a great thief in your team and from my encounters in-game, thieves tend to lose most 1v1 encounters and lack survivability.

I know the forum is teeming with QQ threads. I know such threads make it harder to filter out the good threads. I know most QQ threads are L2P issues.

But threads that are cries for help should at least be looked at.

We are just evolving into other classes, not much saving to be done at this point. Rather have a dev that cares about my class.

Yeah thief looks like its gonna die, the daredevil traits dont really do anything except maybe the heal on evade and the dash. Reroll to rev, thief already had its funeral in LA.

i wish i never wasted my time learning thief and went for engineer instead

Pft I wish I never bought Heart of Thorns. Wish I could get my money back.

Lol… Thief, the class that has been consistently meta since the game launched. Oh, how much pain you must go through. Oh how the devs have forsaken you.

I forgot that you should be able to win 1v1s on a class that brings extremely high mobility (including unparalleled vertical mobility), extremely high support in Shadow Refuge and extremely high damage potential, as well as the ability to never die when played properly on a Marauder build, such as Toker in WTS.

I do not play thief. I do not know how to play thief. I have faced thieves. I have fought the greatest thieves NA has to offer: Caed, toker, muffinz, happy kid, and I will say. They’re no where near as scary to fight. Before it was “oh crap a thief Im gunna die.” Now it’s “oh hey, a thief you’re gunna die.” Of course, good thieves can still kick my kitten , just no where near as hard.

I haven’t been threatened by a thief in a while, nor have I seen thieves competing to see who’s the best, and I didn’t think I’d say this but, I miss it. I miss thieves being able to carry teams with being everywhere, hitting key targets, getting out due to their low survive.

Maybe daredevil will bring in a new meta but I honestly doubt it.

Every once in a while my Necromancer gets out classed by a Thief, makes me smile because not everyone just gives up and phones everything in.

Thief is doing fine, please stop those threads t_t

people who don’t play thief just say this class is balanced because they’re scared of thieves and don’t want them to be truly balanced lmfao

King Noob IV.3560:

people who don’t play thief just say this class is balanced because they’re scared of thieves and don’t want them to be truly balanced lmfao

And what is your idea of balance Mr. “Hoping for Ele and Mesmer to get gutted with nerfs?”

I just wish there were viable builds other than Dagger/Pistol + shortbow.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

King Noob IV.3560:

people who don’t play thief just say this class is balanced because they’re scared of thieves and don’t want them to be truly balanced lmfao

And what is your idea of balance Mr. “Hoping for Ele and Mesmer to get gutted with nerfs?”

Put 2 second evade on Heartseeker, make it a blast finisher, make it cost three initiative, and lastly make it an interrupt.

They just feel like they take too much damage compared to other classes. I know they are suppose to dodge etc but even leveling it just feels like im 1/4 a class,.

abc.5790:

I don’t play thief. I tried it years ago but failed. I suck at it.

But I see the value in having a great thief in your team and from my encounters in-game, thieves tend to lose most 1v1 encounters and lack survivability.

I know the forum is teeming with QQ threads. I know such threads make it harder to filter out the good threads. I know most QQ threads are L2P issues.

But threads that are cries for help should at least be looked at.

Logic dictate that a marauder build engaging a bruiser/bunker build will most likely lose, I don’t see how this is any different for other professions.
Now how thief fare on marauder vs marauder?…but then again..where are the other marauder builds?

thief just needs slight buffing, it’s other professions (elementalist, necro, mesmer, engineer etc) that need more serious readjustment through nerfs.

Supreme.3164:

Logic dictate that a marauder build engaging a bruiser/bunker build will most likely lose, I don’t see how this is any different for other professions.
Now how thief fare on marauder vs marauder?…but then again..where are the other marauder builds?

this is what’s wrong with the forums. there is literally no reason why a marauder spec shouldnt be able to reliably and fairly beat a sustain oriented spec through it’s own means of outplaying it or vice versa. preferred play style should ultimately be irrelevant if you are building to win fights (i.e. not bunker guard).

you wanna talk power only? thief was one of the worst performing professions in the most recent AG 1v1 Tournament, which was dominated by mesmers and rangers.

It’s funny how the most common points made are:

You were always meta. And we answer with “may I point you to exhibit A, shortbow 5”.

And “its funny that thief expects to build glass and beat tanks” meanwhile Reapers tank entire teams for giggles with zerker+scholar and no defense traits? On top of that, Thief damage is pretty pathetic boardwide WITHOUT taking only damage modifiers. Remember when backstabs hurt? Ye, its kinda fuzzy on me too- feels like 3 years ago.

Anywho, I still get my share of Thief op at the weirdest moments. “good job pressing 2 (dagger main hand, I spam 3 and 4…d/p is just not there for dagger) or good job pressing 3 (p/p)”. I got a cele to whine, not because he lost 1v1. But because he couldn’t kill two thieves in a 1v2. Ye. Good job, we aren’t dead enough – gotta whine that you can’t kill multiples of us. I mean uh, I’m not a Thief. I am a Hammer Revenant now….

I haven’t really seen a change in the performance of Thieves. I think a big part of what feels underpowered about Thieves right now, is that the new masteries are bringing builds to the table that you are not used to fighting. Since Thief is a class that is high risk, high reward and cannot afford to make mistakes, you’ve been having trouble against the new masteries during the learning phase of how to deal with them.

I’m not saying that Daredevil couldn’t use some tweaking but all this claim that Thieves are so underpowered is jumping the gun.

Im absolutely ignorant about thief gameplay and shadow is the only title I don’t have (titles are meaningless anyways) but I support this thread because it’s not right how little survivability they have. If an outsider like me realizes the weakness of the class, it must be hell for a lot of you guys that main it.

Now is probably not the best time to learn thief gameplay but I think I will spend more time on mine until the expansion comes out.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I haven’t really seen a change in the performance of Thieves. I think a big part of what feels underpowered about Thieves right now, is that the new masteries are bringing builds to the table that you are not used to fighting. Since Thief is a class that is high risk, high reward and cannot afford to make mistakes, you’ve been having trouble against the new masteries during the learning phase of how to deal with them.

I’m not saying that Daredevil couldn’t use some tweaking but all this claim that Thieves are so underpowered is jumping the gun.

New masteries like Ele can get Final Shielding+ armor of earth and a plethora of other traits? Warriors getting free endure pains and hitting us harder than we hit them (getting one shot by whirl is not uncommon). Perhaps that we are supposed to adapt to Shared Anguish? Or the Mesmer being a better assassin than us because they got a 25% damage increase (IP baseline, no shatter nerf. ok…). Perhaps I should adapt to Rangers being able to hold me in place, or a stack of 5 buring taking 50% of my hp and I have to use a stun break to clear condi or just leave the fight altogether? Nah, gotta be me needing to outplay mindless aoe spam? I don’t mean to be rude mate. But we adapted. We can’t adapt anymore. Notice the almost unanimous usage of a SINGLE build? That’s adapting. Its your turn.

Edit :What the mastery system did is allow classes to take 3 lines with no drawbacks: Now you get one for class mechanic, damage, and survival. Funny how Thief has the least survivability right?

Thieves were OP on release, and are still OP now, and you know, stuff&things. Clearly they’ve just been brought into line with everybody else and can actually die sometimes. Except when they don’t because they’re played properly (according to Thieves who regularly make this statment -_-u)

Anyway, I made all you Thieves a short vid
https://youtu.be/12vLBFpNmTg

Supreme.3164:

abc.5790:

I don’t play thief. I tried it years ago but failed. I suck at it.

But I see the value in having a great thief in your team and from my encounters in-game, thieves tend to lose most 1v1 encounters and lack survivability.

I know the forum is teeming with QQ threads. I know such threads make it harder to filter out the good threads. I know most QQ threads are L2P issues.

But threads that are cries for help should at least be looked at.

Logic dictate that a marauder build engaging a bruiser/bunker build will most likely lose, I don’t see how this is any different for other professions.
Now how thief fare on marauder vs marauder?…but then again..where are the other marauder builds?

Most other classes benefit teams more with builds other than Marauder. Mesmers and Guardians seem to have no problems against Thieves, current Necro not so much but Reaper will be better. There’s no point pretending that the pre-June 24 meta logic is the same as now.

I love when people point out, well because of your ability to move and back cap. Yeah… Cause that’s all I want to do in a pvp matchrun around the map, avoiding all fights because the NON-elite specs can turn around and hit a skill or two and god help me if I don’t play it perfectly because if I don’t I am a loot bag and points.

I don’t want to be Op

I don’t want to win every fight

I want a fighting chance to do something and not have to do everything pixel perfect.

most thieves i encounter in pvp are hungry hungry hippos. they can never be saved.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Thieves were OP on release, and are still OP now, and you know, stuff&things. Clearly they’ve just been brought into line with everybody else and can actually die sometimes. Except when they don’t because they’re played properly (according to Thieves who regularly make this statment -_-u)

Anyway, I made all you Thieves a short vid
https://youtu.be/12vLBFpNmTg

No words for this vid. You might be a wonderfull human beeing but this is surely not the gameplay the game should be balanced around. Its just randomly hitting skills and randomly dodging.

This class is basically dead. Move along. You have NO survivability now.

And I’m speaking pve. It’s no fun now with this class.

pvp can suck it. And I say that as a horrible pvp player.

Thief is still very good at pve. You dont need any survivability there, just damage. Every single boss mechanics is outbplayed by just bursting the boss down. I dont know what will change with higher fracs, but i remember going lvl 79 before it was closed at 50 and it still worked there.

OMG why did the mods move this from the pvp forum?

The concern I have for thieves is pvp related. Sorry guys it’s just that I don’t leave hotm and don’t know much about how thieves perform in pve.

HEY MODS, THIS IS PVP RELATED. Please move back to pvp.

abc.5790:

OMG why did the mods move this from the pvp forum?

So they can forget it probably ;)

Thanks for your efforts though =)

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Thieves were OP on release, and are still OP now, and you know, stuff&things. Clearly they’ve just been brought into line with everybody else and can actually die sometimes. Except when they don’t because they’re played properly (according to Thieves who regularly make this statment -_-u)

Anyway, I made all you Thieves a short vid
https://youtu.be/12vLBFpNmTg

No words for this vid. You might be a wonderfull human beeing but this is surely not the gameplay the game should be balanced around. Its just randomly hitting skills and randomly dodging.

You’re funny.

Nope, i was serious. If I read thief is op its most times bottom tier players, but no way to proof. Well, you proofed yourself.

Serious Thought.5394:

Notice the almost unanimous usage of a SINGLE build?

It baffles me that others fail to grasp the import, significance and relevance of this obvious trend.

The amount of people making these broad and sweeping statements that the class just needs to adapt, L2P, or just generally “chill out man…you guys is fine…SB#5, stealth and +1 remember?….it’s still rocking top tier….k going back to my mains section….cya” seem to be completely ignorant to this and it’s insulting to those that actually do main the class without wanting to be retroactively nerfed and pigeon-holed into one singular role and build that falls over dead at the slightest error….or when farted on.

Just such bad play from Anet. They should have learnt from GW1’s Assassin and realized they simply aren’t good at designing and implementing such classes into a working, fair and balanced meta.

I know everyone seems to be on the “Karl…all on you bro…u suck!!!Wah..wah!!” bandwagon atm but seriously, look at Anets history with this class type.

If Revenant isn’t a clearly and blatantly obvious second attempt to get it right, (while hoping for us all to jump ship and erase this whole horrible mess from our memories) , I’m not sure what is.

Khandarus.2738:

We are just evolving into other classes, not much saving to be done at this point. Rather have a dev that cares about my class.

^^ I don’t know a single person who mains Thief anymore. I put in over 1,500 hours and I honestly had to step away from the BWE this weekend because of how the prof’s been treated.

Decided I’m going to play other professions so now I can get psyched about elite specs.

Interesting…

The argument of STEALTZHROS has changed to OP SINCE IN META – mainly stemming from say Magic Toker and his playstyle.

Glad to know we’re all Magic Tokers.

It’s kind of like in LoL, during a tourny some guy on the winning team uses champion X. After the tourny, every single game has someone playing champion X on both sides. In a way it’s nice because, if you stuck to w/e champs you were mained, you will be able to roflstomp them with so much ease. Because hey, the champ might be the same, but let’s be real, they’re not that guy from the tourny.

Supreme.3164:

Logic dictate that a marauder build engaging a bruiser/bunker build will most likely lose, I don’t see how this is any different for other professions.
Now how thief fare on marauder vs marauder?…but then again..where are the other marauder builds?

Power necromancer says hi.

Switch to Shadow Arts D/P. There. You’ve been saved (for the time being!).

Appreciate you noticing how flawed things are for us.. It has become almost impossible to 1v1 anything as a thief… Which is insanely disappointing seeing as almost every other MMO has assassin classes that are superior in the 1v1 Spotlight. Honestly competitively thief is by far the most boring, usless class in pvp. Don’t give me that “oh but you are good at +1 ing and decaps” bull shmit either. I play pvp to fight players Not look at walls and pick up kills on players who are weak because thief is too weak and underpowered to get a kill for itself.

Arctarius, it seems you aren’t arguing that thief is broken. It seems you’re arguing that thief is broken for how you currently want to try to play it. Phrasing future complaints to account for this would make it much easier for someone in the position of a developer to decipher which complaints are more legitimate than others. (For the record, I agree most thief builds are poor. I disagree that thief as a whole is broken because we still do enough important aspects of the game so much better than others. Yes, this includes “+1ing and decaps”.)

rennlc.7346:

Arctarius, it seems you aren’t arguing that thief is broken. It seems you’re arguing that thief is broken for how you currently want to try to play it.

That was your original Post and the one I wanted to refer to:

“Welcome to Tomb Raider XII. We added some more mobs. Lara can’t kill anything in this game but we gave her an extra dodge. Enjoy.”

I don’t think people would buy that game actually. Only in Tetris you don’t kill stuff.

But you aren’t differentiating between whether you’re killing players by yourself or killing them by coordinating your burst with the attacks of your teammates. We’re poor at the former, yes, but we’re great at the latter.

rennlc.7346:

But you aren’t differentiating between whether you’re killing players by yourself or killing them by coordinating your burst with the attacks of your teammates. We’re poor at the former, yes, but we’re great at the latter.

You got my point.
And every class is good at +1 – doesn’t have to be a thief.
I think those who still play thief are die hards who know what they’re doing, so you automatically get a good player when you get a thief.

Thief is the fastest and most mobile class not to mention it has near perma stealth making it the very best +1er and decaper in the game. With proper rotations a good thief can easily carry a pvp game EVEN at a top level, I’ve seen Toker single handedly save games for the abjured. If a thief has potential to carry against the best players in the game, then it can definitely carry in random solo q’s it’s just a matter of rotations.

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1. If thief was the best 1v1er in the game on top of having the most mobility/disengage/stealth it’d be straight up OP because not only would they be able to win most 1v1s they’d be able to leave whenever they wanted making them virtually unkillable.

Why do you guys say thief has no survivability when it has more than it’s ever had in pvp with SA and vamp runes? If you’re constantly dying on that than I can definitely see why you’re retiring your thief. I would too.

Anyway thief isn’t terrible at 1v1 the cele classes are obviously better but that’s a given. A thief can take down mesmers, other thieves, non bunker guards, warriors and it’s easily possible for a thief to take down a bad cele necro or ele (though not reasonable to expect to do consistently I’ve done it a fair share even taking out Phantaram’s d/d 1v1 on point once in ESL) you just have to know when you’ve lost and get out.

Anyway so in short this isn’t a 1v1 playstyle but it doesn’t mean that you can’t fight. Thieves can still carry a team fight, just have to play patiently and intelligently. On top of being able to outrotate teams with their mobility, get countless decaps using stealth and mobility, +1 to your heart’s content, as well as having the strongest revive utility in the game through SA minor trait + vamp runes thief can rez through almost anything which is amazing for getting your team back in the game.

With all this in mind I can understand why this playstyle may not seem fun to everyone. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I find it to be great fun and I, along with many thieves better than I think thief is in a good place right now. Seriously go to any top thief’s stream (Magic Toker, Caed, Sindrener, etc.) and they will all tell you thief is fine right now, maybe a bit boring sometimes but definitely not underpowered like this forum likes to cry about.

oEnvy.3064:

Thief is the fastest and most mobile class not to mention it has near perma stealth making it the very best +1er and decaper in the game. With proper rotations a good thief can easily carry a pvp game EVEN at a top level, I’ve seen Toker single handedly save games for the abjured. If a thief has potential to carry against the best players in the game, then it can definitely carry in random solo q’s it’s just a matter of rotations.

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1. If thief was the best 1v1er in the game on top of having the most mobility/disengage/stealth it’d be straight up OP because not only would they be able to win most 1v1s they’d be able to leave whenever they wanted making them virtually unkillable.

Why do you guys say thief has no survivability when it has more than it’s ever had in pvp with SA and vamp runes? If you’re constantly dying on that than I can definitely see why you’re retiring your thief. I would too.

Anyway thief isn’t terrible at 1v1 the cele classes are obviously better but that’s a given. A thief can take down mesmers, other thieves, non bunker guards, warriors and it’s easily possible for a thief to take down a bad cele necro or ele (though not reasonable to expect to do consistently I’ve done it a fair share even taking out Phantaram’s d/d 1v1 on point once in ESL) you just have to know when you’ve lost and get out.

Anyway so in short this isn’t a 1v1 playstyle but it doesn’t mean that you can’t fight. Thieves can still carry a team fight, just have to play patiently and intelligently. On top of being able to outrotate teams with their mobility, get countless decaps using stealth and mobility, +1 to your heart’s content, as well as having the strongest revive utility in the game through SA minor trait + vamp runes thief can rez through almost anything which is amazing for getting your team back in the game.

With all this in mind I can understand why this playstyle may not seem fun to everyone. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I find it be great fun and I, along with many thieves better than I think thief is in a good place right now. Seriously go to any top thief’s stream (Magic Toker, Caed, Sindrener, etc.) and they will all tell you thief is fine right now, maybe a bit boring sometimes but definitely not underpowered like this forum likes to cry about.

I get that what it offers for this Conquest game mode is good..but that’s no excuse to play a class that cannot kill any other classes in 1v1 pvp. I main thief and I agree with you, it can win in 1v1 in its current state but it takes way too much effort opposed to the warrior one axe auto and were down..like comon. Lets be honest..why the kitten is the thief class the one that is put in this position, the most support like role in the game. it is insanely boring and utterly rediculas that the Assassin archetype class is a kitten support. like are you kidding me? yes i know you will comment with more “play intelligently then” speal….but quite frankly there are allot of us that are not pros and do not ever plan to be that would like to feel like real assassin classes without catering to a freaking game type to feel useful….thanks but no thanks, il take fighting fun 1v1s over mindlessly slapping keys back and forth from point to point acting like im carrying a team because im good at looking at colorful circles change under me and running in circles. PvP should be about combat and player reaction time, not walking fast really well. you and the other 2% thief players that think +1 & decap is fun can go do that then. if things don’t change for thief im out.

Arctarius.2649:

oEnvy.3064:

Thief is the fastest and most mobile class not to mention it has near perma stealth making it the very best +1er and decaper in the game. With proper rotations a good thief can easily carry a pvp game EVEN at a top level, I’ve seen Toker single handedly save games for the abjured. If a thief has potential to carry against the best players in the game, then it can definitely carry in random solo q’s it’s just a matter of rotations.

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1. If thief was the best 1v1er in the game on top of having the most mobility/disengage/stealth it’d be straight up OP because not only would they be able to win most 1v1s they’d be able to leave whenever they wanted making them virtually unkillable.

Why do you guys say thief has no survivability when it has more than it’s ever had in pvp with SA and vamp runes? If you’re constantly dying on that than I can definitely see why you’re retiring your thief. I would too.

Anyway thief isn’t terrible at 1v1 the cele classes are obviously better but that’s a given. A thief can take down mesmers, other thieves, non bunker guards, warriors and it’s easily possible for a thief to take down a bad cele necro or ele (though not reasonable to expect to do consistently I’ve done it a fair share even taking out Phantaram’s d/d 1v1 on point once in ESL) you just have to know when you’ve lost and get out.

Anyway so in short this isn’t a 1v1 playstyle but it doesn’t mean that you can’t fight. Thieves can still carry a team fight, just have to play patiently and intelligently. On top of being able to outrotate teams with their mobility, get countless decaps using stealth and mobility, +1 to your heart’s content, as well as having the strongest revive utility in the game through SA minor trait + vamp runes thief can rez through almost anything which is amazing for getting your team back in the game.

With all this in mind I can understand why this playstyle may not seem fun to everyone. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I find it be great fun and I, along with many thieves better than I think thief is in a good place right now. Seriously go to any top thief’s stream (Magic Toker, Caed, Sindrener, etc.) and they will all tell you thief is fine right now, maybe a bit boring sometimes but definitely not underpowered like this forum likes to cry about.

I get that what it offers for this Conquest game mode is good..but that’s no excuse to play a class that cannot kill any other classes in 1v1 pvp. I main thief and I agree with you, it can win in 1v1 in its current state but it takes way too much effort opposed to the warrior one axe auto and were down..like comon. Lets be honest..why the kitten is the thief class the one that is put in this position, the most support like role in the game. it is insanely boring and utterly rediculas that the Assassin archetype class is a kitten support. like are you kidding me? yes i know you will comment with more “play intelligently then” speal….but quite frankly there are allot of us that are not pros and do not ever plan to be that would like to feel like real assassin classes without catering to a freaking game type to feel useful….thanks but no thanks, il take fighting fun 1v1s over mindlessly slapping keys back and forth from point to point acting like im carrying a team because im good at looking at colorful circles change under me and running in circles. PvP should be about combat and player reaction time, not walking fast really well. you and the other 2% thief players that think +1 & decap is fun can go do that then. if things don’t change for thief im out.

“PvP should be about combat and player reaction time” this is exactly what thief is about though. As far as straight up combat and 1v1s go thief has one of the highest skillcaps in the game. Yes, you have to play nearly perfectly or you could die. Doesn’t that make it all the more fulfilling when you get to the level where you don’t die. You seem to think I was saying all pvp thieves or all I do in games is decap while that is completely untrue. That was me justifying thieves not being able to 1v1 as well as other less mobile classes.

Also if you aren’t a true pvp player which, with how you talk about colorful circles and such, then I don’t think you have a reason to complain about thief’s 1v1 ability. Yes, you’re a squishy class you have to play well you can’t just facetank everything and win, but thief has more than enough tools to stay alive. Yes, sometimes you will lose to less skilled players because you didn’t play perfectly. That’s the trade off for an extremely high level skillcap class, if you aren’t capable of consistently playing thief at a high level then please don’t just cry to anet to make the class easier, get better.

oEnvy.3064:

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1.

I think this is one of my main issues. Who said it’s not the Thief’s job to 1v1? Did I miss the official ANet memo or something?

Honestly… a Glass Cannon that can’t break through defenses. That is self-defeating and completely ironic. It’s the equivalent of a freezer that catches things on fire.

Guild Wars 2 is a combat-based game. ANet set out to NOT bring in the “Holy Trinity,” therefore, it can be assumed that every profession is meant to capable of every “role” based on their builds. Not that they should all be equal in their methods, but capability is a different matter altogether. The Thief is simply not currently in condition to perform certain roles as it should be able to. All that is needed is for it to get fixed.

If you wish to run around decapping and avoiding 1vX engagements, that’s fine. But why should everyone else who enjoys the Thief playstyle be limited to that?

Kageseigi.2150:

oEnvy.3064:

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1.

I think this is one of my main issues. Who said it’s not the Thief’s job to 1v1? Did I miss the official ANet memo or something?

Honestly… a Glass Cannon that can’t break through defenses. That is self-defeating and completely ironic. It’s the equivalent of a freezer that catches things on fire.

Guild Wars 2 is a combat-based game. ANet set out to NOT bring in the “Holy Trinity,” therefore, it can be assumed that every profession is meant to capable of every “role” based on their builds. Not that they should all be equal in their methods, but capability is a different matter altogether. The Thief is simply not currently in condition to perform certain roles as it should be able to. All that is needed is for it to get fixed.

If you wish to run around decapping and avoiding 1vX engagements, that’s fine. But why should everyone else who enjoys the Thief playstyle be limited to that?

I was saying that from a pvp perspective, a thief playing optimally will know when to decap, when to teamfight, when to peel for teamfights.

From a non pvp perspective, there are no set jobs or whatever. and like I said I don’t think there’s any reason to complain about thieves there. Like I said earlier, high skillcap, high risk high reward. Think about it, you technically do have enough damage to kill anything in the game with the exception of like full nomads or whatever. And you have enough mobility and stealth to never die if you don’t want to. Combine those elements into your play, learn when to do both and you will be unbeatable. Some matchups will be harder than others, even against less skilled players but thief has the least limits as to how well one can play. There’s always something you can do better, how you engage, what skills you use, when you engage, when you disengage, how well you dodge and adapt to what skills your enemy is using, are you keeping track of their cds. Yes thief is harder to play than ranger, warrior, guardian, ele, engi in 1v1s but it has a higher skillcap than them and when you’ve practiced any matchup enough rather than going in blindly, and when you play it properly you can and will win.

oEnvy.3064:

Arctarius.2649:

oEnvy.3064:

Thief is the fastest and most mobile class not to mention it has near perma stealth making it the very best +1er and decaper in the game. With proper rotations a good thief can easily carry a pvp game EVEN at a top level, I’ve seen Toker single handedly save games for the abjured. If a thief has potential to carry against the best players in the game, then it can definitely carry in random solo q’s it’s just a matter of rotations.

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1. If thief was the best 1v1er in the game on top of having the most mobility/disengage/stealth it’d be straight up OP because not only would they be able to win most 1v1s they’d be able to leave whenever they wanted making them virtually unkillable.

Why do you guys say thief has no survivability when it has more than it’s ever had in pvp with SA and vamp runes? If you’re constantly dying on that than I can definitely see why you’re retiring your thief. I would too.

Anyway thief isn’t terrible at 1v1 the cele classes are obviously better but that’s a given. A thief can take down mesmers, other thieves, non bunker guards, warriors and it’s easily possible for a thief to take down a bad cele necro or ele (though not reasonable to expect to do consistently I’ve done it a fair share even taking out Phantaram’s d/d 1v1 on point once in ESL) you just have to know when you’ve lost and get out.

Anyway so in short this isn’t a 1v1 playstyle but it doesn’t mean that you can’t fight. Thieves can still carry a team fight, just have to play patiently and intelligently. On top of being able to outrotate teams with their mobility, get countless decaps using stealth and mobility, +1 to your heart’s content, as well as having the strongest revive utility in the game through SA minor trait + vamp runes thief can rez through almost anything which is amazing for getting your team back in the game.

With all this in mind I can understand why this playstyle may not seem fun to everyone. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I find it be great fun and I, along with many thieves better than I think thief is in a good place right now. Seriously go to any top thief’s stream (Magic Toker, Caed, Sindrener, etc.) and they will all tell you thief is fine right now, maybe a bit boring sometimes but definitely not underpowered like this forum likes to cry about.

I get that what it offers for this Conquest game mode is good..but that’s no excuse to play a class that cannot kill any other classes in 1v1 pvp. I main thief and I agree with you, it can win in 1v1 in its current state but it takes way too much effort opposed to the warrior one axe auto and were down..like comon. Lets be honest..why the kitten is the thief class the one that is put in this position, the most support like role in the game. it is insanely boring and utterly rediculas that the Assassin archetype class is a kitten support. like are you kidding me? yes i know you will comment with more “play intelligently then” speal….but quite frankly there are allot of us that are not pros and do not ever plan to be that would like to feel like real assassin classes without catering to a freaking game type to feel useful….thanks but no thanks, il take fighting fun 1v1s over mindlessly slapping keys back and forth from point to point acting like im carrying a team because im good at looking at colorful circles change under me and running in circles. PvP should be about combat and player reaction time, not walking fast really well. you and the other 2% thief players that think +1 & decap is fun can go do that then. if things don’t change for thief im out.

“PvP should be about combat and player reaction time” this is exactly what thief is about though. As far as straight up combat and 1v1s go thief has one of the highest skillcaps in the game. Yes, you have to play nearly perfectly or you could die. Doesn’t that make it all the more fulfilling when you get to the level where you don’t die. You seem to think I was saying all pvp thieves or all I do in games is decap while that is completely untrue. That was me justifying thieves not being able to 1v1 as well as other less mobile classes.

Also if you aren’t a true pvp player which, with how you talk about colorful circles and such, then I don’t think you have a reason to complain about thief’s 1v1 ability. Yes, you’re a squishy class you have to play well you can’t just facetank everything and win, but thief has more than enough tools to stay alive. Yes, sometimes you will lose to less skilled players because you didn’t play perfectly. That’s the trade off for an extremely high level skillcap class, if you aren’t capable of consistently playing thief at a high level then please don’t just cry to anet to make the class easier, get better.

No i am not new to pvp.. I am a skilled thief player and have played since lauch , thanks for trying your hand at insult though. I simply do not agree with your outlook on the fact that thiefs duty is to decap. As i said, the assassin archtype in most games is just as versitile as it is in this game, only we are not punished for picking the class for no reason. What sense does it make to you that we are the squishiest class in the game, supposed to do burst but cannot bypass any other classes defenses without flawless gameplay at all times as to where they can easily 1 hit us with absolutely no effort? I love high skill ceilings..what I dont love is me busting my kitten to pull off a single attack on an opponent ( that usually wont finish them) and them simply pressing one button for some insane invulnerably duration, or having some other form of inane active defense with ease of access and low cool down. It is mindless and unfair. Im sorry it should take a class at least some effort and skill to kill something. As i said, I am very skilled at the class, High skill ceilings are what i look for in games. But i draw the line when other classes can kill me by accident because they dropped 20 conditions on me with the click of 2 buttons and i am over here struggling to remove 3 of them so not to die. Its just gotten out of hand and has nothing to do with skill. I jumped on necro after playing thief almost a year straight and it feels so much more rewarding and literally takes a quarter of the skill (no offense to necros, thief is just beyond kittened up balance wise) I was face rolling everything and it felt so easy compared to the effort of even attempting to kill one other skilled player as a thief. I am not asking for thief to be buffed to the point it is not skillful and fun to play anymore, I am asking that I can stand a kitten chance to at least 4 of the freaking 9 professions in the game without having to play at flawless perfection to land a couple hits on a guy and escape before he can one shot me… its just stupid right now.. I love my 1v1’s as do probably most if not almost every thief player ot there. Its why assassins exist, to find the odd men out and try to finish them. Thief doesn’t feel like that anymore, it used to..now its just sad..

I haven’t touched my thief in pvp for a couple of months now. While playing other professions I don’t find thieves a threat at all. I never specifically focus them in teamfights because I know they’ll die from the random cluster and aoe anyway. Tbh I pretty much ignore them. At best they decap points but if someone stands on the point there’s not much they can do.

I think saying thief can kill any other profession is simply false. You can only kill people who are not nearly as good as you or already low on health from a previous fight. Oh and +1 is still not a role. Thief was doing ok before, now any other profession can take its place and do better.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure Anet is aware of these issues already since there’s been plenty of threads on the subject. The question is what they’re going to do about it and when. And on that note, someone mentioned on another thread a point that I never even considered: Thieves might be balanced fairly but maybe the other professions aren’t. I wish Anet would just split skills for pvp and pve, it would make things so much easier.

EDIT: Meanwhile I’ve played a power necro alot lately and man… The amount of dmg and the survivability makes thief look stupid. There is just no justification why I should take thief over necro. And this is just one of the professions that performs better than thief.

Arctarius.2649:

oEnvy.3064:

Arctarius.2649:

oEnvy.3064:

Thief is the fastest and most mobile class not to mention it has near perma stealth making it the very best +1er and decaper in the game. With proper rotations a good thief can easily carry a pvp game EVEN at a top level, I’ve seen Toker single handedly save games for the abjured. If a thief has potential to carry against the best players in the game, then it can definitely carry in random solo q’s it’s just a matter of rotations.

It makes sense that thief isn’t great in 1v1s, it’s not the thief’s job to 1v1. If thief was the best 1v1er in the game on top of having the most mobility/disengage/stealth it’d be straight up OP because not only would they be able to win most 1v1s they’d be able to leave whenever they wanted making them virtually unkillable.

Why do you guys say thief has no survivability when it has more than it’s ever had in pvp with SA and vamp runes? If you’re constantly dying on that than I can definitely see why you’re retiring your thief. I would too.

Anyway thief isn’t terrible at 1v1 the cele classes are obviously better but that’s a given. A thief can take down mesmers, other thieves, non bunker guards, warriors and it’s easily possible for a thief to take down a bad cele necro or ele (though not reasonable to expect to do consistently I’ve done it a fair share even taking out Phantaram’s d/d 1v1 on point once in ESL) you just have to know when you’ve lost and get out.

Anyway so in short this isn’t a 1v1 playstyle but it doesn’t mean that you can’t fight. Thieves can still carry a team fight, just have to play patiently and intelligently. On top of being able to outrotate teams with their mobility, get countless decaps using stealth and mobility, +1 to your heart’s content, as well as having the strongest revive utility in the game through SA minor trait + vamp runes thief can rez through almost anything which is amazing for getting your team back in the game.

With all this in mind I can understand why this playstyle may not seem fun to everyone. If that’s the case I’m sorry, I find it be great fun and I, along with many thieves better than I think thief is in a good place right now. Seriously go to any top thief’s stream (Magic Toker, Caed, Sindrener, etc.) and they will all tell you thief is fine right now, maybe a bit boring sometimes but definitely not underpowered like this forum likes to cry about.

I get that what it offers for this Conquest game mode is good..but that’s no excuse to play a class that cannot kill any other classes in 1v1 pvp. I main thief and I agree with you, it can win in 1v1 in its current state but it takes way too much effort opposed to the warrior one axe auto and were down..like comon. Lets be honest..why the kitten is the thief class the one that is put in this position, the most support like role in the game. it is insanely boring and utterly rediculas that the Assassin archetype class is a kitten support. like are you kidding me? yes i know you will comment with more “play intelligently then” speal….but quite frankly there are allot of us that are not pros and do not ever plan to be that would like to feel like real assassin classes without catering to a freaking game type to feel useful….thanks but no thanks, il take fighting fun 1v1s over mindlessly slapping keys back and forth from point to point acting like im carrying a team because im good at looking at colorful circles change under me and running in circles. PvP should be about combat and player reaction time, not walking fast really well. you and the other 2% thief players that think +1 & decap is fun can go do that then. if things don’t change for thief im out.

“PvP should be about combat and player reaction time” this is exactly what thief is about though. As far as straight up combat and 1v1s go thief has one of the highest skillcaps in the game. Yes, you have to play nearly perfectly or you could die. Doesn’t that make it all the more fulfilling when you get to the level where you don’t die. You seem to think I was saying all pvp thieves or all I do in games is decap while that is completely untrue. That was me justifying thieves not being able to 1v1 as well as other less mobile classes.

Also if you aren’t a true pvp player which, with how you talk about colorful circles and such, then I don’t think you have a reason to complain about thief’s 1v1 ability. Yes, you’re a squishy class you have to play well you can’t just facetank everything and win, but thief has more than enough tools to stay alive. Yes, sometimes you will lose to less skilled players because you didn’t play perfectly. That’s the trade off for an extremely high level skillcap class, if you aren’t capable of consistently playing thief at a high level then please don’t just cry to anet to make the class easier, get better.

No i am not new to pvp.. I am a skilled thief player and have played since lauch , thanks for trying your hand at insult though. I simply do not agree with your outlook on the fact that thiefs duty is to decap. As i said, the assassin archtype in most games is just as versitile as it is in this game, only we are not punished for picking the class for no reason. What sense does it make to you that we are the squishiest class in the game, supposed to do burst but cannot bypass any other classes defenses without flawless gameplay at all times as to where they can easily 1 hit us with absolutely no effort? I love high skill ceilings..what I dont love is me busting my kitten to pull off a single attack on an opponent ( that usually wont finish them) and them simply pressing one button for some insane invulnerably duration, or having some other form of inane active defense with ease of access and low cool down. It is mindless and unfair. Im sorry it should take a class at least some effort and skill to kill something. As i said, I am very skilled at the class, High skill ceilings are what i look for in games. But i draw the line when other classes can kill me by accident because they dropped 20 conditions on me with the click of 2 buttons and i am over here struggling to remove 3 of them so not to die. Its just gotten out of hand and has nothing to do with skill. I jumped on necro after playing thief almost a year straight and it feels so much more rewarding and literally takes a quarter of the skill (no offense to necros, thief is just beyond kittened up balance wise) I was face rolling everything and it felt so easy compared to the effort of even attempting to kill one other skilled player as a thief. I am not asking for thief to be buffed to the point it is not skillful and fun to play anymore, I am asking that I can stand a kitten chance to at least 4 of the freaking 9 professions in the game without having to play at flawless perfection to land a couple hits on a guy and escape before he can one shot me… its just stupid right now.. I love my 1v1’s as do probably most if not almost every thief player ot there. Its why assassins exist, to find the odd men out and try to finish them. Thief doesn’t feel like that anymore, it used to..now its just sad..

Me trying at my hand at an insult would be me saying you are a terrible thief. Which from how you cluelessly describe a lot of matchups it definitely sounds like you are. Ignorantly crying about your profession because you simply can’t play it to it’s full potential. “what I dont love is me busting my kitten to pull off a single attack on an opponent ( that usually wont finish them)” What do you want your autos to one shot enemies or something?

“and them simply pressing one button for some insane invulnerably duration, or having some other form of inane active defense with ease of access and low cool down.” Yes, other classes use their defensive mechanics to survive, learn those defensive mechanics and play around them. Endure pain lasts a few seconds, kite them with your high mobility, high stealth until then. Engi’s shield block and shrink last a few seconds and they can’t attack you in it, again kite, line up your next attack for when they pop out. Guardian’s heal skill as well as their elite skill are invulns, they can’t attack you in them same goes for them, their Shield of wrath blocks 3 attacks and explodes after a few seconds if it doesn’t take 3 attacks. Stealth up and wait for it to pop. Ranger has 2/3 invulns Signet of Stone which is on a 90 second cd, is a skill just like endure pain, lasts a few seconds kite them or stealth up until it’s over, Protect Me is a skill that transfers all damage to it’s pet just AGAIN kite or stealth until it’s over. GS4 on ranger blocks for a few seconds and if you hit them it will knock you back, same goes for it, or use your unblockable shadowshot to blind them and force them into the knockback animation which will fail while they are blinded. Mesmer has Distortion on a 40ish second cd they will most likely pop this after you initially engage on them, chances are if you engage on them with steal + shadowshot they will still be blinded when they pop it, either stealth, use the glob from mesmer, or kite them with mobility until it’s over then re-engage, they have a short cd invuln on sword which locks them into an obvious animation which won’t allow them to move, just wait for it to be over. I won’t go on. What I’m saying is learn specific game mechanics, play the other classses that are giving you trouble, learn what they do in certain scenarios, adapt to those. Don’t play matchups blindly without knowing exactly what your enemy is doing at all times and what that implicates.

If all else fails, maybe you aren’t cut out for thief like you think you are. Just know there other thieves who are successful in all facets of the game Pvp, Dueling, WvW Roaming, GvG, etc. so don’t cry and blame the game for being too hard when you do re-roll.

I’m done replying now as this conversation is going nowhere, you won’t learn anything from what I’m saying. I have never once said I was the best thief nor have I said I was at the skillcap, there are many thieves that are better than me. Swallow your pride, accept your limitations and strive to learn and improve. Accept it and get better, or be ignorant and stay bad.