Guild Wars 2

Arganthium.5638:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.

THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!

That’s all I have to say about that.

Obviously anyone who sees this as anything more than a bug fix don’t know how to read. The skill CLEARLY stated it only had a 1,200 range (lol, “only”).

If you cannot justify why this is a bug, then it is not a bug.

If you think it is a broken skill because it’s too powerful, then say it as it is and not call it a bug.

It is insulting when their intention is to nerf it but hiding behind the pretense of a bug by calling it a bug. Don’t hide under the pretense that it is a bug, it only makes you dishonest.

Just call it as it is.

It is a NERF!

A bug fix is when Anet finds the time to fix our auto-attack timing — now that’s a bug fix worth praising.

Anet aren’t hiding under the pretense that it is a bug. WE are claiming it was a bug, and it has now been fixed. Anet did nothing to say their end but fix the bug at hand.

If this ultimately nerfs thieves, then it is a nerf that shouldn’t have happened in the first place (NOT in the favor for Thieves). Sorry if you have grown too comfortable with EZescape number 7 not working as intended for almost a year, but this is a fix thieves should have been getting ready for ever since it was made clear as day that the range to Shadow’s Return didn’t synch with it in practice.

So that’s all it takes now? To claim that it is a bug and it is so?

Like I said, you cannot justify it.

And you know what? NOW it is bugged and need fixing. When do you think they will fix that?

But hey, if it makes you superior over any thief whenever Anet nerfs us, then enjoy yourself….why are you even here?

I’ll start off by saying I am here because my main is in fact a Thief. Just because you “claim I don’t play a thief doesn’t make it so”.

Second, I don’t need to claim that Shadow’s Return was bugged prior to the patch, it was proven by the skill itself.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

1,200 range

Twelve
Hundred
Range

If it did any more than that (which it OBVIOUSLY did), it was bugged and not working as intended. This isn’t even up for debate, it is fact. The skill prior to patch did NOT work as intended. It now works within the listed range, albeit with a new bug in its place (no one is arguing this needs to be addressed). However, the topic isn’t about Shadow’s Return being bugged, there is already a thread about that. The thread is about Shadow’s Return getting NERFED. It didn’t. It got fixed.

That’s… Not even the right skill…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return

Note that it also says “return to your original location”, not “teleport in the direction you started from up to 1200 meters”. Furthermore, since when was intent a necessary indicator of whether or not something was good?

Oops, I linked an inferior version of basically the same skill, but with a 60sec Cooldown. My bad.

And the skill does infact bring you back to your original location. However, if you put a rock between you and the location, don’t be surprised when you find that a rock has more mass than even a Norn can acquire.

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

Arganthium.5638:

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

And an opposite party could easily say having infinite range for Shadow’s Return offered too much versatility for the Thief. I fail to see how Thieves need as many escapes as they do anyhow, so making a skill work as intended at the cost of a little escape ability isn’t anything worth tearing the forums up over.

But alas, here on the Thief forums…

Because load screens to original locations were intended, right?

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

And an opposite party could easily say having infinite range for Shadow’s Return offered too much versatility for the Thief. I fail to see how Thieves need as many escapes as they do anyhow, so making a skill work as intended at the cost of a little escape ability isn’t anything worth tearing the forums up over.

But alas, here on the Thief forums…

Further evidence you never read my post with all of my arguments against SR’s nerf?

Arganthium.5638:

5. Counterargument: “But the ability to control two points on the map was just too strong!”

First of all, IStrike doesn’t guarantee control of two points over a very long distance anyways, unless you’re going to burn up a bunch of mobility skills, in which case you maybe have 7-8 seconds to write in your chat “LOL I CAN TELEPORT ACROSS TEH MAP GUYZ” and then have to click the button, which is horribly inefficient anyhow. Furthermore, what’s the point in controlling two points if you only have a very limited time frame to control them, and have to abuse your mobility greatly in order for the teleport to mean anything anyways? Furthermore, while the idea looks great in theory, how many PvPers, for example, have you seen actually abuse this mechanic? Why is this mechanic even good? It means that a main mobility skill just has to sit on your bar unused for 15 seconds. If you try to go cap the clock tower in Kyhlo, for example, from the windmill, what might happen is that by the time you get to the top of the clock tower (and this is given that you abuse your mobility skills) you might have five seconds before you can SR back to the windmill. If somebody is about to neutralize windmill anyways, then why the kitten did you run to the clocktower to go get a few ticks on it in the first place? Now the enemy can attack a largely undefended windmill while you can choose either to let them cap it, and thereby wasting the whole idea behind laying down SR at the windmill anyways, or you can Shadow Return, wasting an initiative and a bunch of mobility skills just so that you can show off the fact that you can teleport from one point to the other in a map quickly, which is absolutely useless. You would’ve just been better off staying at windmill in the first place and then using IStrike to immobilize enemies coming to cap the point in the first place. So, this mobility “abuse” is only any use in fights anyways, as it gives you the opportunity to escape and cleanse conditions, but even then, you can’t let SR sit on your bar for too long without wasting a good weapon skill for you to use, and if you use it at the wrong moment then you might be left with unfavorable conditions. For example, condition cleansing with the skill against a staff necro might just result in you getting mark bursted as you try to get within attacking range of the necro again.

Also, you’re really working your way up to an infraction. Flaming members of the thief community is a surefire way to damage your reputation.

Arganthium.5638:

McFribble.2349:

Arganthium.5638:

Lightsbane.9012:

Excalibur.9748:

Meh, thieves get nerfed every patch. This one was no exception…

how can you call this a nerf? it says 1200 in the tool tip. did before this patch.

“Return to your original location.”

That’s what it also says. Before and after this patch, too.

Furthermore, a “nerf” is not defined by intention but by effect. While ANet’s intention may not have been to give this skill infinite range originally, that does not mean that the infinite range was necessarily a bad bug that had to be removed. However, as it clearly decreases versatility granted to thieves, I cannot call this anything but a nerf, as it does have negative effects on thief performance.

And an opposite party could easily say having infinite range for Shadow’s Return offered too much versatility for the Thief. I fail to see how Thieves need as many escapes as they do anyhow, so making a skill work as intended at the cost of a little escape ability isn’t anything worth tearing the forums up over.

But alas, here on the Thief forums…

Further evidence you never read my post with all of my arguments against SR’s nerf?

Arganthium.5638:

5. Counterargument: “But the ability to control two points on the map was just too strong!”

First of all, IStrike doesn’t guarantee control of two points over a very long distance anyways, unless you’re going to burn up a bunch of mobility skills, in which case you maybe have 7-8 seconds to write in your chat “LOL I CAN TELEPORT ACROSS TEH MAP GUYZ” and then have to click the button, which is horribly inefficient anyhow. Furthermore, what’s the point in controlling two points if you only have a very limited time frame to control them, and have to abuse your mobility greatly in order for the teleport to mean anything anyways? Furthermore, while the idea looks great in theory, how many PvPers, for example, have you seen actually abuse this mechanic? Why is this mechanic even good? It means that a main mobility skill just has to sit on your bar unused for 15 seconds. If you try to go cap the clock tower in Kyhlo, for example, from the windmill, what might happen is that by the time you get to the top of the clock tower (and this is given that you abuse your mobility skills) you might have five seconds before you can SR back to the windmill. If somebody is about to neutralize windmill anyways, then why the kitten did you run to the clocktower to go get a few ticks on it in the first place? Now the enemy can attack a largely undefended windmill while you can choose either to let them cap it, and thereby wasting the whole idea behind laying down SR at the windmill anyways, or you can Shadow Return, wasting an initiative and a bunch of mobility skills just so that you can show off the fact that you can teleport from one point to the other in a map quickly, which is absolutely useless. You would’ve just been better off staying at windmill in the first place and then using IStrike to immobilize enemies coming to cap the point in the first place. So, this mobility “abuse” is only any use in fights anyways, as it gives you the opportunity to escape and cleanse conditions, but even then, you can’t let SR sit on your bar for too long without wasting a good weapon skill for you to use, and if you use it at the wrong moment then you might be left with unfavorable conditions. For example, condition cleansing with the skill against a staff necro might just result in you getting mark bursted as you try to get within attacking range of the necro again.

Also, you’re really working your way up to an infraction. Flaming members of the thief community is a surefire way to damage your reputation.

An infraction for pointing out my opinion in a discussion? Sorry, the thief forums are infamous for QQ. Pointing this out isn’t against the rules by any means, especially if I’m not naming and shaming. But if you would like to prove where exactly I “flamed a member of the thief forums”, I would love to see it. I sure wouldn’t want to hurt my reputation on an online forum for a video game.

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.

THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!

That’s all I have to say about that.

Obviously anyone who sees this as anything more than a bug fix don’t know how to read. The skill CLEARLY stated it only had a 1,200 range (lol, “only”).

If you cannot justify why this is a bug, then it is not a bug.

If you think it is a broken skill because it’s too powerful, then say it as it is and not call it a bug.

It is insulting when their intention is to nerf it but hiding behind the pretense of a bug by calling it a bug. Don’t hide under the pretense that it is a bug, it only makes you dishonest.

Just call it as it is.

It is a NERF!

A bug fix is when Anet finds the time to fix our auto-attack timing — now that’s a bug fix worth praising.

Anet aren’t hiding under the pretense that it is a bug. WE are claiming it was a bug, and it has now been fixed. Anet did nothing to say their end but fix the bug at hand.

If this ultimately nerfs thieves, then it is a nerf that shouldn’t have happened in the first place (NOT in the favor for Thieves). Sorry if you have grown too comfortable with EZescape number 7 not working as intended for almost a year, but this is a fix thieves should have been getting ready for ever since it was made clear as day that the range to Shadow’s Return didn’t synch with it in practice.

So that’s all it takes now? To claim that it is a bug and it is so?

Like I said, you cannot justify it.

And you know what? NOW it is bugged and need fixing. When do you think they will fix that?

But hey, if it makes you superior over any thief whenever Anet nerfs us, then enjoy yourself….why are you even here?

I’ll start off by saying I am here because my main is in fact a Thief. Just because you “claim I don’t play a thief doesn’t make it so”.

lol, nice try but you’re the one making the claim here.

Second, I don’t need to claim that Shadow’s Return was bugged prior to the patch, it was proven by the skill itself.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

1,200 range

Twelve
Hundred
Range

Oh I see, then you might want to read this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Patch-Notes-28-5/first#post2108384

If it did any more than that (which it OBVIOUSLY did), it was bugged and not working as intended. This isn’t even up for debate, it is fact. The skill prior to patch did NOT work as intended. It now works within the listed range, albeit with a new bug in its place (no one is arguing this needs to be addressed). However, the topic isn’t about Shadow’s Return being bugged, there is already a thread about that. The thread is about Shadow’s Return getting NERFED. It didn’t. It got fixed.

If your reason is based on the tooltip, then you completely lost your mind.

IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED — THEY DECIDED TO NERF IT.

My only issue here is Anet’s consistency. If they want to base all changes on the tooltip, then make it so. Fix Trick shot and Vital shot and all other “bugs” based on the tooltip.

And don’t stop there. Roll back Basilisk Venom to its former functionality because the tooltip says that the target turns to stone…so why aren’t they immobilized? And don’t tell me that the tooltip is wrong because that’s shooting yourself on the foot.

The fact is, it has already happened many times in the past where changes are completely unjustified — and this is one of them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

McFribble.2349:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.

THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!

That’s all I have to say about that.

Obviously anyone who sees this as anything more than a bug fix don’t know how to read. The skill CLEARLY stated it only had a 1,200 range (lol, “only”).

If you cannot justify why this is a bug, then it is not a bug.

If you think it is a broken skill because it’s too powerful, then say it as it is and not call it a bug.

It is insulting when their intention is to nerf it but hiding behind the pretense of a bug by calling it a bug. Don’t hide under the pretense that it is a bug, it only makes you dishonest.

Just call it as it is.

It is a NERF!

A bug fix is when Anet finds the time to fix our auto-attack timing — now that’s a bug fix worth praising.

Anet aren’t hiding under the pretense that it is a bug. WE are claiming it was a bug, and it has now been fixed. Anet did nothing to say their end but fix the bug at hand.

If this ultimately nerfs thieves, then it is a nerf that shouldn’t have happened in the first place (NOT in the favor for Thieves). Sorry if you have grown too comfortable with EZescape number 7 not working as intended for almost a year, but this is a fix thieves should have been getting ready for ever since it was made clear as day that the range to Shadow’s Return didn’t synch with it in practice.

So that’s all it takes now? To claim that it is a bug and it is so?

Like I said, you cannot justify it.

And you know what? NOW it is bugged and need fixing. When do you think they will fix that?

But hey, if it makes you superior over any thief whenever Anet nerfs us, then enjoy yourself….why are you even here?

I’ll start off by saying I am here because my main is in fact a Thief. Just because you “claim I don’t play a thief doesn’t make it so”.

lol, nice try but you’re the one making the claim here.

Second, I don’t need to claim that Shadow’s Return was bugged prior to the patch, it was proven by the skill itself.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

1,200 range

Twelve
Hundred
Range

Oh I see, then you might want to read this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Patch-Notes-28-5/first#post2108384

If it did any more than that (which it OBVIOUSLY did), it was bugged and not working as intended. This isn’t even up for debate, it is fact. The skill prior to patch did NOT work as intended. It now works within the listed range, albeit with a new bug in its place (no one is arguing this needs to be addressed). However, the topic isn’t about Shadow’s Return being bugged, there is already a thread about that. The thread is about Shadow’s Return getting NERFED. It didn’t. It got fixed.

If your reason is based on the tooltip, then you completely lost your mind.

IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED — THEY DECIDED TO NERF IT.

My only issue here is Anet’s consistency. If they want to base all changes on the tooltip, then make it so. Fix Trick shot and Vital shot and all other “bugs” based on the tooltip.

And don’t stop there. Roll back Basilisk Venom to its former functionality because the tooltip says that the target turns to stone…so why aren’t they immobilized? And don’t tell me that the tooltip is wrong because that’s shooting yourself on the foot.

The fact is, it has already happened many times in the past where changes are completely unjustified — and this is one of them.

I think you should loosen up the tin foil hat because its starting to suffocate your brain. The skill was bugged and has been known for a long time. The devs even mentioned it in a state of the game. Think about how many bugs still exist since launch. Then think about how it could just be possible that the tool tip was correct and it just took them so long to correct the bug. I’m sure it wasn’t high priority since S/x hasn’t been fotm for a while now. If you’re going to complain about anything complain about the fact that it takes so long to fix bugs.

The initial teleport was 1200 range limit, the return (unlimited range) worked as intended.

also this (‘high quality’ changes to skills by anet):

Smiter’s Boon (PvP)

Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus.
Concise description
Enchantment Spell. (5 seconds.) Your Smiting Prayers have double Divine Favor healing bonus.

This skill was modified in the August 21st, 2008 update to effectively remove it from PvP. In a Developer update, ArenaNet stated, “We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.”
This skill is considered by most to be the paramount example of a nerf and thus, has given rise to a nickname known as Smiter’s Booning (or simply S-booning) or “[to] 25/90 <a skill>” (in reference to the new energy cost and recharge), or simply “booned.” (example- “The skill got booned!”) It is most often used when players cry out for the nerf of a particular problematic skill or when a skill has been made so underpowered it becomes unplayable in serious builds.

Coast.5162:

The initial teleport was 1200 range limit, the return (unlimited range) worked as intended.

also this (‘high quality’ changes to skills by anet):

Smiter’s Boon (PvP)

Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus.
Concise description
Enchantment Spell. (5 seconds.) Your Smiting Prayers have double Divine Favor healing bonus.

This skill was modified in the August 21st, 2008 update to effectively remove it from PvP. In a Developer update, ArenaNet stated, “We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.”
This skill is considered by most to be the paramount example of a nerf and thus, has given rise to a nickname known as Smiter’s Booning (or simply S-booning) or “[to] 25/90 <a skill>” (in reference to the new energy cost and recharge), or simply “booned.” (example- “The skill got booned!”) It is most often used when players cry out for the nerf of a particular problematic skill or when a skill has been made so underpowered it becomes unplayable in serious builds.

The teleport has been 600 range and the return 1200 range (labeled).

The change would be fine if there were no bugs. An instant 1200m movement skill is still good. I’d rather the skill failed entirely over 1200m range rather than do some buggy rubbish at any distance.

And btw, don’t feed the troll.

YourOwnFear.2743:

It isn’t a nerf, lol. It is a bug fix. The skill was clearly labeled with a 1200 unit range and we have been able to use it to juke people well beyond 2000 unit range. It only affects trolls anyways. I never used it beyond 1200 units unless I was going to intentionally troll someone.

well in gw1 this is how it was supposed to work. so was under the impression it was the same here…. anyway that aside….none trolls use it all the time….its a zerg escaping tool…..kinda like the “non stealth” version……so normal players use it on a regular basis…. maybe u dont….maybe ur not a good / experienced thief i dont know. but i do know that ive used it so many times and left a zerg with the choice of chasing me or hoping that a few people can make me teleport back and if i dont i just stopped the zerg from catching me….if they do chase….even better.

Travlane.5948:

YourOwnFear.2743:

It isn’t a nerf, lol. It is a bug fix. The skill was clearly labeled with a 1200 unit range and we have been able to use it to juke people well beyond 2000 unit range. It only affects trolls anyways. I never used it beyond 1200 units unless I was going to intentionally troll someone.

well in gw1 this is how it was supposed to work. so was under the impression it was the same here…. anyway that aside….none trolls use it all the time….its a zerg escaping tool…..kinda like the “non stealth” version……so normal players use it on a regular basis…. maybe u dont….maybe ur not a good / experienced thief i dont know. but i do know that ive used it so many times and left a zerg with the choice of chasing me or hoping that a few people can make me teleport back and if i dont i just stopped the zerg from catching me….if they do chase….even better.

I escaped just fine with cnd and shadow return in 1200 range. Funny thing is I am using it just fine right now. Guess I am better than you thought, huh. I don’t normally think someone is good when they need to abuse bugs just to get by.

Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?

YourOwnFear.2743:

Travlane.5948:

YourOwnFear.2743:

It isn’t a nerf, lol. It is a bug fix. The skill was clearly labeled with a 1200 unit range and we have been able to use it to juke people well beyond 2000 unit range. It only affects trolls anyways. I never used it beyond 1200 units unless I was going to intentionally troll someone.

well in gw1 this is how it was supposed to work. so was under the impression it was the same here…. anyway that aside….none trolls use it all the time….its a zerg escaping tool…..kinda like the “non stealth” version……so normal players use it on a regular basis…. maybe u dont….maybe ur not a good / experienced thief i dont know. but i do know that ive used it so many times and left a zerg with the choice of chasing me or hoping that a few people can make me teleport back and if i dont i just stopped the zerg from catching me….if they do chase….even better.

I escaped just fine with cnd and shadow return in 1200 range. Funny thing is I am using it just fine right now. Guess I am better than you thought, huh. I don’t normally think someone is good when they need to abuse bugs just to get by.

its no more abusing than using shadow refuges invis and getting revealed if u leave or using pistol whips evade…..or stealing while CND/HS/BS….but im sure you never used any of those right?

All of the other changes in this patch, to every class, were bug fixes. Why would this change be any different?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_

In addition, the above skill says “returns to starting location” yet it will only teleport a maximum of 1200 range (I think..?).

The phrase ‘starting location’ obviously refers to the fact that if you are within 1200 range, it will not teleport you 1200 range in the direction you came from, but rather to where you started (whether it is 0, 600, or 1200 range away).

The Sword’s Shadow Return is worded exactly the same. I don’t see why this is anything more than a bug fix.

Alright, if you want to be pedantic, then technically it could be construed as a ‘nerf’. In that case everyone got nerfs this patch, what are you complaining about?

Edit: And if you really, really want to argue semantics, check this out

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention

“Teleport to your target”, “1200 range”. By all of the above arguments, this skill (and every teleport ability in the history of video games) is contradictory. Yet nobody has any problems with how it works.

The amount of complaining I see on this forum is greatly amusing. I don’t even take half of you seriously anymore.

Travlane.5948:

Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?

Thinking logically I would realize that the weapon skill that can be spammed wasn’t supposed to be as versatile as the utility skill with a cd and programmed differently. Also I would look at the amount of bugs in the game that when working should be similar to other skills in the game that currently work fine. I would then realize that the problem would be more with the dev team not making bug fixes a priority until something becomes too widely used.

Sunflowers.1729:

In addition, the above skill says “returns to starting location” yet it will only teleport a maximum of 1200 range (I think..?).

The phrase ‘starting location’ obviously refers to the fact that if you are within 1200 range, it will not teleport you 1200 range in the direction you came from, but rather to where you started (whether it is 0, 600, or 1200 range away).
…Edit: And if you really, really want to argue semantics, check this out
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention
“Teleport to your target”, “1200 range”. By all of the above arguments, this skill (and every teleport ability in the history of video games) is contradictory. Yet nobody has any problems with how it works.

See, this guy understands. I don’t understand why you guys are emphasizing the fact that it says “Return to your starting location” even though you can clearly see that underneath it says that the range is 1200. Meaning that it will teleport back as long as you are within 1200 (metres?) of your original location.
Just like Sunflowers said, if a skill allowed you to “teleport to a target” and underneath that it had “Range: 1200”, are you expecting your character to teleport to an enemy that is on the other side of the map? That’s just plain stupid.

Thrutian.7931:

Sunflowers.1729:

In addition, the above skill says “returns to starting location” yet it will only teleport a maximum of 1200 range (I think..?).

The phrase ‘starting location’ obviously refers to the fact that if you are within 1200 range, it will not teleport you 1200 range in the direction you came from, but rather to where you started (whether it is 0, 600, or 1200 range away).
…Edit: And if you really, really want to argue semantics, check this out
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention
“Teleport to your target”, “1200 range”. By all of the above arguments, this skill (and every teleport ability in the history of video games) is contradictory. Yet nobody has any problems with how it works.

See, this guy understands. I don’t understand why you guys are emphasizing the fact that it says “Return to your starting location” even though you can clearly see that underneath it says that the range is 1200. Meaning that it will teleport back as long as you are within 1200 (metres?) of your original location.
Just like Sunflowers said, if a skill allowed you to “teleport to a target” and underneath that it had “Range: 1200”, are you expecting your character to teleport to an enemy that is on the other side of the map? That’s just plain stupid.

Way too much logic in this statement. It will be refuted to death though and if it can’t be refuted, then the post will be ignored and the thread will go on like it never happened.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Travlane.5948:

Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?

Thinking logically I would realize that the weapon skill that can be spammed wasn’t supposed to be as versatile as the utility skill with a cd and programmed differently. Also I would look at the amount of bugs in the game that when working should be similar to other skills in the game that currently work fine. I would then realize that the problem would be more with the dev team not making bug fixes a priority until something becomes too widely used.

well u totally shirked what i said but w.e. ill try again….if both skills were supposed to be the same why is one different? same programming/coding…..so unless they decided to type something different……

Travlane.5948:

YourOwnFear.2743:

Travlane.5948:

Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?

Thinking logically I would realize that the weapon skill that can be spammed wasn’t supposed to be as versatile as the utility skill with a cd and programmed differently. Also I would look at the amount of bugs in the game that when working should be similar to other skills in the game that currently work fine. I would then realize that the problem would be more with the dev team not making bug fixes a priority until something becomes too widely used.

well u totally shirked what i said but w.e. ill try again….if both skills were supposed to be the same why is one different? same programming/coding…..so unless they decided to type something different……

I didn’t shirk it.. I answered with the fact that they arent the same skill and thus programmed different. Now the answer you want from me is why did they mess up the programming of one and not the other. I clearly dont work on the gw2 dev team so I don’t know why. It is easy to miss a 1 or 0 which can cause a bug. You are trying to make it sound way simpler than it is. Maybe a dev can come in here and explain how 2 totally seperate skills can end up with seperate issues….

I’m kind of surprised they limited it this strictly, to be honest. Infinite was too much, imo, but I would have guessed a 2400 limit before they stuck to the 1200. I guess they don’t want thieves to have the option of a complete disengage on sword 2.

I still wonder how many reports of the bugginess of this shadowstep are warranted though. I find it funny that one heavily obscured screenshot got so many people to just give up on this skill.

Bug fix. And a good one. Using Infiltrator Strike mainly as a CC and in combination with shadow return to jump in and out of a fight just suits well. At least in sPvP. Not being able to use shadow return while being inced by an enemy because one can be ported to whereever the hell it was you last used it was just annoying.

I’m fine with it being 1200…but the pathing isn’t done correctly.
I got stuck in a pebble like 3 times yesterday doing Shadow Return…this is not right.

reason it was nerfed was because it is a non cooldown stun breaker

too much range enabled to hit players and escape out of their absolute field of combat

enabled thiefs to attack from 2 places at once for example jump from high place hit enemy a bit teleport back to wall shoot em a bit rinse and repeat.

So after all the changes to RTL, there are posters shocked – shocked – that Anet would likewise fix Shadow Return.

The skills lies:

Return to your original location. Cure one condition.

Return to random pebble near location instead 300m from you… lawlz

Rezzet.3614:

reason it was nerfed was because it is a non cooldown stun breaker

too much range enabled to hit players and escape out of their absolute field of combat

enabled thiefs to attack from 2 places at once for example jump from high place hit enemy a bit teleport back to wall shoot em a bit rinse and repeat.

It’s still a non cooldown stun breaker.
1200 range is still out of a lot of players ‘absolute field of combat’, whatever that means.

All it did is reduce the range. and made it buggy where you get stuck in random things a lot.

Orpheus.7284:

Rezzet.3614:

reason it was nerfed was because it is a non cooldown stun breaker

too much range enabled to hit players and escape out of their absolute field of combat

enabled thiefs to attack from 2 places at once for example jump from high place hit enemy a bit teleport back to wall shoot em a bit rinse and repeat.

It’s still a non cooldown stun breaker.
1200 range is still out of a lot of players ‘absolute field of combat’, whatever that means.

All it did is reduce the range. and made it buggy where you get stuck in random things a lot.

It has a cool-down, its based on our initiative pool, if we have no initiative we have no IF/SR.

Daecollo.9578:

Orpheus.7284:

Rezzet.3614:

reason it was nerfed was because it is a non cooldown stun breaker

too much range enabled to hit players and escape out of their absolute field of combat

enabled thiefs to attack from 2 places at once for example jump from high place hit enemy a bit teleport back to wall shoot em a bit rinse and repeat.

It’s still a non cooldown stun breaker.
1200 range is still out of a lot of players ‘absolute field of combat’, whatever that means.

All it did is reduce the range. and made it buggy where you get stuck in random things a lot.

It has a cool-down, its based on our initiative pool, if we have no initiative we have no IF/SR.

yes but you got traits and a signet that enable you to pretty much have infinite initiative

WereDragon.6083:

I can’t stop smirking at the whine.

It was a bug fix, you where using a bugged skill and you’re complaining about a nerf? GTF over yourselves.

Just a fun fact – stomping/reviving in Mistform/Elixir S/Deathshroud/Plague wasn’t intended either, yet they left it in the game for half a year (still counting) and now fully enabled stomping with two of them (Elixir S and Mistform). A bug/“exploit” that turned out to be fine and that worked for “balance”.

According to your logic those should have been fixed ages ago to interrupt stomps/revives, yet ANET never made them do that. See the similarities?

Rezzet.3614:

Daecollo.9578:

Orpheus.7284:

Rezzet.3614:

reason it was nerfed was because it is a non cooldown stun breaker

too much range enabled to hit players and escape out of their absolute field of combat

enabled thiefs to attack from 2 places at once for example jump from high place hit enemy a bit teleport back to wall shoot em a bit rinse and repeat.

It’s still a non cooldown stun breaker.
1200 range is still out of a lot of players ‘absolute field of combat’, whatever that means.

All it did is reduce the range. and made it buggy where you get stuck in random things a lot.

It has a cool-down, its based on our initiative pool, if we have no initiative we have no IF/SR.

yes but you got traits and a signet that enable you to pretty much have infinite initiative

No, we really don’t, and if this is what you believe then I seriously suggest that you play a thief in tPvP. Sure, we can spam a single skill over and over, but realize that unlike you our weaponsets don’t get automatic full CD’s on our skills whenever we change our weapon set, and building a full-initiative build means that you have to give up a lot. For example, I run 10/0/0/30/30 S/D, and although I like the initiative system, it would also be nice to manage to pull 30 into CS as well, but I need 30 in Trix because otherwise the cooldowns on my skills become too long.

You folks can call this a fix/patch all you want. It was clearly a nerf. The ability clearly states it returns you to original location. It no longer does that. I don’t care what a dev said months ago. Whoever he/she said is probably not even part of that team any more – who knows.

What I see is a nerf. A 2000 range in the patch notes would have told me it was a fix. 1200 clearly states a nerf.

They should have just reduced the time you have to shadowstep back or gave it 2,000-4,000 range. When I was testing it out, it seriously made me realise how tiny 1,200 is in this game. When you exceed the 1200 metres your “original location” gets dragged forward in your direction the further away you move, which explains the issues people have been experiencing. What they need to do is make it so that if you exceed the maximum distance then the window/time you have of shadowstepping back gets cut off after a few seconds.
The worst part about all this is that we’ll have to wait for the patch next month and that’s if they even decide to change anything.

Thrutian.7931:

If they had just implemented it without the bug in the first place, or fixed it WAY earlier, then you guys wouldn’t be complaining about it being “nerfed”. Fair enough it was useful in PvP/WvW but it wasn’t intended to work like that.

It’s also not intended to put you below the ground, in objects or even plainly strand you on a bump in the ground long before that 1200 range.

Still, when working properly, the 1200 range would be sufficient in combat.

WereDragon.6083:

Kajiri.8215:

A nerf is determined by the change it has on the game, not the reasons behind the change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_

In this instance the change was both a bug fix and a nerf.

Hang on lemme log into my wikipedia account and edit that bit.
(If you catch my drift on Wikipedia’s reliability.)

You just do that, show us how easy it is to to make lasting edits to Wikipedia articles and what this says about it’s reliability.

I would comment about the fix to Shadowstep, but I’ve been busy getting out of walls since I started leveling a mesmer. Phase Retreat, Staff 2, ye gods halp. I r teh stux.

WyldKat.4712:

I would comment about the fix to Shadowstep, but I’ve been busy getting out of walls since I started leveling a mesmer. Phase Retreat, Staff 2, ye gods halp. I r teh stux.

It could be worse, you might be that one person who opens an SC instigator chest and gets trapped inside in front of the whole zerg. :P

Nerfed? They fixed a bug – finally. As a S/x thief I love it now as always

hard to say. i think it was nerfed or changed. shadow return on both skills are supposed to use the same coding if they are meant to be the same. so that said why would it be different in the first place? its bc they made it like that purposely………. its the non stealth way of escaping……its why theres a 14 sec timer instead of 10. extra time…or is that a bug too?

I had no idea that patching an unlimited range teleport to match the range of every other self-teleport in the game was a nerf.

Hm

As long as it keeps removing a condition and breaking stuns, I’m (and it’s) fine.

Tooltip needs fixing: “Upon activation, jams you randomly into terrain and jacks up your camera view.”

Pentalic.5409:

We shouldn’t call this a nerf so much as a bug fix. Shadow Return was never intended to be a infinite range shadowstep-back . It now requires you to know more about positioning and the ins and outs of the skills (ie. being able to put it down when not targeting anyone. This becomes extremely useful now that the range is what it should be).

I’m not going to post ALL the spamming of everyone that said this but this is the 1st… here is my reply…. it never WAS infinite….only so far u can travel in 15 secs…which… when “in combat mode mentality” goes by a lot faster than u think…

Also note that the initial shadow step is only 600 range… so its not like you can just port 1200 away… do ur thing.. continue moving an additional 1500 away… and expect to get back….

This was definately a nerf..and a bugged nerf at that.

I’m with the bug fix crowd.

so answer this anyone : why would they purposely program “the same” shadow returns with different coding? it wasnt a bug. it was in the coding. i understand what it says. but if it was a bug….then shadow step would have worked the same way…but it didnt. therefor the coding wasnt the same.

Travlane.5948:

so answer this anyone : why would they purposely program “the same” shadow returns with different coding? it wasnt a bug. it was in the coding. i understand what it says. but if it was a bug….then shadow step would have worked the same way…but it didnt. therefor the coding wasnt the same.

Coding wasn’t the same, but the tooltip =/= the shadow return’s capabilities. It could have been either a tooltip error or and actual bug.

yeah. i get the feeling it was a tooltip error. i mean the way coding and programming goes…. just doesnt make sense.

Kajiri.8215:

This made thieves weaker, so it is a nerf by definition, regardless of it being a bug fix or not. Since when are these terms mutually exclusive?

I need to agree with Kajiri. Initially, I thought it’s a bug fix only. But yes, it is a bug fix and a nerf, technically speaking.

In my opinion, this bug fix was necessary. Also, I’m not bothered by this nerf. I think it is still very decent to get out of situations.