Guild Wars 2

On a 30 second cd, traited 24 and lasting for 6 seconds on a 1200 range with acces to bounce reveals i assume, did engi’s rly need this option vs thiefs >_>

Source: gw2 stream on twitch just ago.

if 1% of the engi players use this skill you run into 1 of those every 100 engis you fight. must be a terrible fate.

engi here.
just wanted to check the thieves subform to clarify some things about the goggles’ Belt ability “Analize”:
Yea no, its on a middle cooldown. 30s default !CAN NOT BE REDUCED BY TRAITS DIRECTLY! to reduce the cooldown we need to spend points in our tool-traitline that will reduce the cd of ALL belt-abilities by 5% for each point spent. So the max-reduction is 30%, which would bring the minimum cd of analyze to 23sec.
Yes, its on 1.2k range
No, it does not bounce. If we choose the trait static discharge we fire a bouncing bolt with each belt-ability being used, but the bolt itself does not inherit the effects of the skill he got triggered from, so the bolt will not reveal.
In addition to the previous posted info about this skill: it does not have a projectile and is instantly casted. You have no pre-warning before it fires.

Still you can expect many engis in wvw favoring this skill now, not only because of the reveal, but its parent-skill “utility-googles” is a stunbreaker and therefore an important part of most of the builds we zerk with. In addition we get 10sec of immunity to blind from “Utility-googles” which helps us to land every hit we fire.
Your best counter would be to evade often and keep us cc’d.

Jekkt.6045:

if 1% of the engi players use this skill you run into 1 of those every 100 engis you fight. must be a terrible fate.

It’s not that uncommon, specially for zerk engies. Overcharged Shot → Utility Googles is a killer combo.

Ah yea mistake cd is indeed altered by traitline which makes it still however possible not saying its likely, as for the bounce not adding reveal i said i assumed it would and wasn’t sure on it, which i guess makes it slightly better as in not to be randomly revealed by an rng bounce.

But yea my post was mainly aimed towards wvwvw environment where engi’s now got a hardcounter if a pesky thief or mes keeps some people busy, when most engi’s where already in a good state vs thiefs ^^

It’s not really the 6s revealed that bothers me, but how blind immunity and reveal are on the same skill. That could shut down sa builds pretty hard. Not too worried though as engis usually have 2-3 and less open slots. Also, the ranger skill never revealed me pre patch so perhaps it needed a buff

So, between random Condi spam, bubble turrets, instant knock backs, and 1 trick 20kdmg combo, engis were not satisfied with their thief counters

Utility goggles is a fairly uncommon utility, so this buff is to help give it something that makes it much more valuable. There’s also very few skills in the game that can actually counter stealth in this manner, and I don’t think adding a few more is a bad idea. Engineers are a much better candidate for it that some others (i.e. warriors).

The most common use for utility goggles is in SD burst builds, which need to be handled in much the same way as any ranged, glassy burst build. For instance, the engineer doesn’t have massive burst from long range (unlike what the ranger can do), so if you get hit with analyze you can shadowstep away and wait for it to fade. They also can’t remove you from stealth with it, and you should be able to counter it with a blind or a dodge.

We also still need to see the thief changes they’ll have planned. For all we know they’ll get a trait or something that removes revealed.

From the tone of the reveal I expect all classes to get the 6 second reveal in one of their utilities, even thieves.
Might as well make your peace with that.

Kiriakulos.1690:

From the tone of the reveal I expect all classes to get the 6 second reveal in one of their utilities, even thieves.
Might as well make your peace with that.

I don’t think so.

Its already impossible to kill condi engineers. How about they make it so whenever a theif get hit from incendiary ammo they get enchanted from the shadows and get 5x stronger. I came across 1 ranger that were impossible to kill tho was using some kind of regen condi bunker build and it was just everlasting.
How can this skill even have 1200 range ?? Our ONLY 1200 range skill got nerfed down to 900 which is so slow you can just sidestep out of it.
Its like they want ppl quit theif altogether. Or just force everyone to use s/d the only viable pvp build that is barely competitive. 2-3 lichform attacks and you’re down.

This was a very calculated implementation on anet’s part.

They are listening to the stealth whines and these changes are a direct result. I would not be surprised to see every class get reveal on their utility skills.

Question remains though what will thieves receive in return, and why is anet again implementing changes based on WvW alone?

tom.7468:

Its already impossible to kill condi engineers. How about they make it so whenever a theif get hit from incendiary ammo they get enchanted from the shadows and get 5x stronger. I came across 1 ranger that were impossible to kill tho was using some kind of regen condi bunker build and it was just everlasting.
How can this skill even have 1200 range ?? Our ONLY 1200 range skill got nerfed down to 900 which is so slow you can just sidestep out of it.
Its like they want ppl quit theif altogether. Or just force everyone to use s/d the only viable pvp build that is barely competitive. 2-3 lichform attacks and you’re down.

Use the engineer weakness conditions you can’t expect your build to kill everyone there should always be something that’s harder to defeat but for regen rangers just keep removing or stealing regen I don’t how burst thief deal with the tankiness but I usually end up winning after quite a long time.

Let’s all wait for our turn.

T raw.4658:

This was a very calculated implementation on anet’s part.

They are listening to the stealth whines and these changes are a direct result. I would not be surprised to see every class get reveal on their utility skills.

Question remains though what will thieves receive in return, and why is anet again implementing changes based on WvW alone?

Yup these changes def not base on spvp, stealth sa thief is not an issue at high level tq or sq.

The issue with these traits is how it plays out in group play. They are not “avoidable” like a hammer train which one can dodge and a 6 second reveal is a LOT longer then the stuns from a hammer train.

A 6 second reveal can easily be turned into a 12 second and an 18 second reveal just by having individuals in a group chain their reveal type skills. An entire trait line can be easily shut down and we all well know how lacking in defenses a thief is outside that SA line.

Were I playing my Engie or Ranger and dealing with a thief I would simply get on TS and ensure others in my group run their version as the effects of mine run out.

If MORE of these added to other professions it will be even worse and unless other changes made to the ability of a thief survive outside the SA line a thief will be even more marginal in group play.

>>How can this skill even have 1200 range ?? Our ONLY 1200 range skill got nerfed down to 900 which is so slow you can just sidestep out of it.

This will limit the cnd/steal/bs combo to a great extent.

babazhook.6805:

The issue with these traits is how it plays out in group play. They are not "avoidable" like a hammer train which one can dodge and a 6 second reveal is a LOT longer then the stuns from a hammer train.

A 6 second reveal can easily be turned into a 12 second and an 18 second reveal just by having individuals in a group chain their reveal type skills. An entire trait line can be easily shut down and we all well know how lacking in defenses a thief is outside that SA line.

Were I playing my Engie or Ranger and dealing with a thief I would simply get on TS and ensure others in my group run their version as the effects of mine run out.

If MORE of these added to other professions it will be even worse and unless other changes made to the ability of a thief survive outside the SA line a thief will be even more marginal in group play.

In a group only need one person running revealed skill. Condi burst from a engi, necro, ranger can down a thief if not cleansed. Condi burst then add reveal =dead thief.

Thief can ss away but will still die to conditions or thief ckittene ss to cleanse condi but then you back in range of enemies. Lose lose situation.

vincecontix.1264:

babazhook.6805:

The issue with these traits is how it plays out in group play. They are not “avoidable” like a hammer train which one can dodge and a 6 second reveal is a LOT longer then the stuns from a hammer train.

A 6 second reveal can easily be turned into a 12 second and an 18 second reveal just by having individuals in a group chain their reveal type skills. An entire trait line can be easily shut down and we all well know how lacking in defenses a thief is outside that SA line.

Were I playing my Engie or Ranger and dealing with a thief I would simply get on TS and ensure others in my group run their version as the effects of mine run out.

If MORE of these added to other professions it will be even worse and unless other changes made to the ability of a thief survive outside the SA line a thief will be even more marginal in group play.

In a group only need one person running revealed skill. Condi burst from a engi, necro, ranger can down a thief if not cleansed. Condi burst then add reveal =dead thief.

Thief can ss away but will still die to conditions or thief ckittene ss to cleanse conditions but then you back in range of enemies. Lose lose situation.

I’m totally against this. Eng is already a soft counter to thieves as is. Hard counters = bad. I like having my “prey” able to fight back properly. Stealth already has enough draw backs in pvp. In no way does my eng need this. If this is a wvw only change… then fine whatever idc.

>>In a group only need one person running revealed skill. Condi burst from a engi, necro, ranger can down a thief if not cleansed. Condi burst then add reveal =dead thief.

Indeed but the claim made it only 6 seconds every 30 or 40 due to a long cool down of the skill. They fail to consider the fact that a cooldown is meaningless if multiple persons in a party can just chain one reveal after another.

I can deal with a 4 second reveal or even a 6 second reveal with dodges or other skills as it usually takes a few seconds for that focus on the thief to occur. We just do not have the tools to deal with complete stealth lockdowns to any great extent.

4 seconds of not being able to use an entire trait line is doable. 6 borders on unreasonable. 12 and more I have no idea what they are thinking.

Virtually every beneficial trait of the SA trait line can be put on a near permanent lock down. I do not get the logic here.

Gosh this isn’t the end of the world people. Does it make SA less powerful? Of course, but that’s a good thing. The cruth that is that traitline needs some counters in game. As others have mentioned maybe 1/20 engis run this skill. Its not useful in Condi builds anyways so it won’t impact those fights much. People overreacting to what might actually be a well implemented change.

Helly.2597:

Gosh this isn’t the end of the world people. Does it make SA less powerful? Of course, but that’s a good thing. The cruth that is that traitline needs some counters in game. As others have mentioned maybe 1/20 engis run this skill. Its not useful in Condi builds anyways so it won’t impact those fights much. People overreacting to what might actually be a well implemented change.

I wasn’t trying to say that it was. I’m just against some of the changes I’ve seen thusfar. Buffing ai (pets) and adding in another hard counter. Not the direction that I wanted to see the game go.

Helly.2597:

Gosh this isn’t the end of the world people. Does it make SA less powerful? Of course, but that’s a good thing. The cruth that is that traitline needs some counters in game. As others have mentioned maybe 1/20 engis run this skill. Its not useful in Condi builds anyways so it won’t impact those fights much. People overreacting to what might actually be a well implemented change.

Nope no reacting enough its gonna totally ruin wvw for thiefs. Not many people will be running the reveal skills as part of there actually build. What very likely to happen is players will great wreck by a thief or a group with thiefs and mesmer in it then b4 entering back in to combat they will slot there reveal skill.

Also something that happen to me a lot is when my group is outnumbered couple of the enemies simply occ slot sic next second dead thief. The person using it most of the time is completely useless apart form using sic-em. You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

Its nice that Anet actually tries to make traits &/ skills that nearly noone uses better, hope they will buff thiefs traps and tricks too.

And also it would be nice to get some other kind of counterplay than evade and blind, cause if this is the only defense we have – i predict hard counters from certain ng builds.

Just wait for 1or2 dodges, activate googles and wreck havok.
Even better that warriors zerker stance , cause this one we can at least evade using stealth ….

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Yes but think of this, the game is balanced around team fights as ANET constantly states.(people say they do, im really unsure.) that stated, if I as an engie take utility goggles, im gaining 10 vuln stacks, blind immunity and fury. these all aid me in taking down a theif, but against a warrior? they let me do more damage, thats it, the blind immunity and stealth reveal do nothing. Also, I lose out on a kit in that slot. So we lose alot to take this, and all it lets us do is counter theives.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Yes but think of this, the game is balanced around team fights as ANET constantly states.(people say they do, im really unsure.) that stated, if I as an engie take utility goggles, im gaining 10 vuln stacks, blind immunity and fury. these all aid me in taking down a theif, but against a warrior? they let me do more damage, thats it, the blind immunity and stealth reveal do nothing. Also, I lose out on a kit in that slot. So we lose alot to take this, and all it lets us do is counter theives.

You just killed you’re own argument.

Helly.2597:

Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

T raw.4658:

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

No I didn’t realize that. I didn’t realize thieves didn’t have access to the dodge mechanic. I stand corrected.

T raw.4658:

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

If he decide to use it he’s weaker to other classes it’s a trade off. It’s not great news for you but other classes yes all builds sacrifice something for another.

Whats your problem?! Invis and evade are the two defense abilities without a real counter, its good that it finaly goes in a direction where theirs counter play involved playing with and against those types of defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifH9qMo_KX8&list=TLTeFfLnAWza75z71UxIDw34cFXOTprYKO lots of thiefs get owned in this video with crazyyyyyyyyyyy burst from an engi. I mean crazy check it out!!

Viable forced Reveals are scary for stealth in the meta. Stealth could be completely pushed out, because down saves with stealth can be countered by analyze.

D/P thief vs Utility Goggles is the Hardest Hard counter I’ve ever seen in this game. When equipping 1 skill completely counters a build, I think that’s an issue. You won’t be able to survive long enough in that 1v1 for your team to rotate to you if they’re not already with you, so you’ll always have to give up that capture point in that situation. One of the things that allows D/P to be strong is stealth lets you bail, if there’s an obvious situation where you need to bail out and you get Analyzed, then you have no defense and you’re done.

In team fights, people know to use focus. So I would fully expect Analyze to be used as someone is about to go down, or when someone goes down. This removes the stealth rez utility from Mesmers, Thieves, and Engineers. Because the rez utility from engineers is removed, you’ll see people choosing to take Utility Goggles over Elixir S.

I’m mostly worried about how much a viable forced reveal will create a rock, paper, scissors setup in team comps. “The enemy comp has a thief/mesmer? Better take Analyze.”

On the other side of that, “The enemy comp has an engineer? Our thief/mesmer better not run much stealth, if any.” This is especially disheartening for me, because I prefer D/P over S/D or S/P.

Do you seriously think we have our shadowstep ready just to counter those Goggles? Really? what about the cc, the elite skills and all the kittening combo an engi has. GG anet. Thanks for destroying a class because noobs don’t know how to counter a stealth.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Yes but think of this, the game is balanced around team fights as ANET constantly states.(people say they do, im really unsure.) that stated, if I as an engie take utility goggles, im gaining 10 vuln stacks, blind immunity and fury. these all aid me in taking down a theif, but against a warrior? they let me do more damage, thats it, the blind immunity and stealth reveal do nothing. Also, I lose out on a kit in that slot. So we lose alot to take this, and all it lets us do is counter theives.

Slotting different utilities is not such a big problem and sacrificing 1 utility slot when with a group has less impact on your game play than in 1 vs 1. I rarely see rangers use sic em when they are alone, when in a group, they use it. I don’t see why engies wouldn’t change their utilities as needed.

If thieves were given a hard counter for example against engies, something like several seconds of condi immunity and it’d give us stability as well, I’d slot this every single time I’d see an engi. I can slot something else when I face a class with a non-condi/cc build. I’d even risk the possibility of being in combat (so no reslotting) when I’d bump into a different class.

Like I said earlier, my problem with these stealth counters is that it counters so much thieves depend on, especially condi removal which is so important against engies. Sometimes I melt faster than in 6s and that’s with shadow embrace removing some condis and shadow refuge healing. All that’s needed is the iWin elite supply crate every engi uses. Now with 6s of a very limited condi removal, why even bother fighting engies.

So, are thieves going to get new buffs that completely lock out the abilities and mechanics of other classes or is it just us that get shafted again because bad players can’t deal with stealth?

S/D thief this won’t be a problem on if you’re using the current meta. Any other burst thief then it’s GG, 6 seconds is more than enough to kill a revealed thief.

In all fairness, goggles are terrible so I can’t see too many people using this.

Static.9841:

So, are thieves going to get new buffs that completely lock out the abilities and mechanics of other classes or is it just us that get shafted again because bad players can’t deal with stealth?

They already have that, its called evade, blind and stealth

Mayama.1854:

Static.9841:

So, are thieves going to get new buffs that completely lock out the abilities and mechanics of other classes or is it just us that get shafted again because bad players can’t deal with stealth?

They already have that, its called evade, blind and stealth

Most non SD specs have a small amount of both. Also it won’t be of much good when someone is shooting at you from range.

Mayama.1854:

Static.9841:

So, are thieves going to get new buffs that completely lock out the abilities and mechanics of other classes or is it just us that get shafted again because bad players can’t deal with stealth?

They already have that, its called evade, blind and stealth

Yes, bring up stealth in a discussion about an ability that causes revealed as a hard counter. If you’re going to make a mediocre comment with little to no relevance, at least pay attention to the subject matter.

All classes get blind and evade, this isn’t a buff or a new addition. Other classes also have access to stealth.

No other class has had any ‘nerf’ or counter added into the game that completely locks them out of an entire trait line or their class special mechanic. It’s a terrible attempt to band-aid stealth for the QQers who refuse to learn to play against the mechanic and has a huge impact on any thief not built as the current S/D meta.

Mayama.1854:

Static.9841:

So, are thieves going to get new buffs that completely lock out the abilities and mechanics of other classes or is it just us that get shafted again because bad players can’t deal with stealth?

They already have that, its called evade, blind and stealth

Did you even read the comment? A source of clearing conditions for those who don’t like running around s/d is to stealth. Locking us out of being able to do what the profession is supposed to do because people just want to facetank each other without thinking is stupid.

This revealed thing puts a huge damper on playing a d/d thief…we are supposed to stealth, it’s part of being a thief and now it gets taken away for 6 sec. Guess it’s another profession I will toss to the side for now.

/sigh

Helly.2597:

T raw.4658:

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

No I didn’t realize that. I didn’t realize thieves didn’t have access to the dodge mechanic. I stand corrected.

Then you realized the reveals are ranged insta cast abilities.

Sagat.3285:

T raw.4658:

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

If he decide to use it he’s weaker to other classes it’s a trade off. It’s not great news for you but other classes yes all builds sacrifice something for another.

Then you realize that abilities can be swapped on the go.

Static.9841:

All classes get blind and evade, this isn’t a buff or a new addition. Other classes also have access to stealth.

Go to the gw2 wiki and count how many blinds or evades other classes have compared to the thief

Shockwave.1230:

D/P thief vs Utility Goggles is the Hardest Hard counter I’ve ever seen in this game.

To be honest, it really only hard counters a one-trick-pony build you see commonly in WvW. So I’m personally okay with it having a simple counter to it. The real issue to these counters is how it plays into the 2/6/0/0/6 build. Fortunately trickery d/p doesn’t rely so heavily on stealth as an SA build, but it DOES use stealth. If this skill, or other skills like this, becomes a “thing” we’ll probably see more s/d thieves in WvW. Hopefully, on the spvp side of things, all this means for D/P thieves is more time in shortbow.

In a fight with an engie, you usually heavily rely on shortbow anyway. Also, there is quite a sacrifice for an engie to take utility goggles over elixer s. Warriors have a way more commanding presence than a thief.

What you would commonly see in a teamfight is a person stealthing a person more appropriate for ressing, and then have the thief put pressure on the engie because nades hurt on anyone just facetanking them while ressing. So it’s not like the engies are most likely going to get free harass.

Shockwave.1230:

This is especially disheartening for me, because I prefer D/P over S/D or S/P.

I’m with you. D/P is just way better than S/D or S/P and we definitely don’t see many D/P players as S/D players in spvp, but I’m still waiting to see the other changes before I make up my mind. Regardless, I play way more dota than guild wars now-a-days anyway.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Shockwave.1230:

D/P thief vs Utility Goggles is the Hardest Hard counter I’ve ever seen in this game.

To be honest, it really only hard counters a one-trick-pony build you see commonly in WvW. So I’m personally okay with it having a simple counter to it. The real issue to these counters is how it plays into the 2/6/0/0/6 build. Fortunately trickery d/p doesn’t rely so heavily on stealth as an SA build, but it DOES use stealth. If this skill, or other skills like this, becomes a “thing” we’ll probably see more s/d thieves in WvW. Hopefully, on the spvp side of things, all this means for D/P thieves is more time in shortbow.

In a fight with an engie, you usually heavily rely on shortbow anyway. Also, there is quite a sacrifice for an engie to take utility goggles over elixer s. Warriors have a way more commanding presence than a thief.

What you would commonly see in a teamfight is a person stealthing a person more appropriate for ressing, and then have the thief put pressure on the engie because nades hurt on anyone just facetanking them while ressing. So it’s not like the engies are most likely going to get free harass.

Shockwave.1230:

This is especially disheartening for me, because I prefer D/P over S/D or S/P.

I’m with you. D/P is just way better than S/D or S/P and we definitely don’t see many D/P players as S/D players in spvp, but I’m still waiting to see the other changes before I make up my mind. Regardless, I play way more dota than guild wars now-a-days anyway.

Don’t forget that utility goggles gives blind immunity to engineers, which is has a heavy presence on D/P via shadow shot and black powder. That’s the other reason the counter is so hard.

Well, I guess the best us thieves can do is wait and see what kind of changes Anet has in store for us? I mean surely if they’re adding reveal to a skill as good at utility goggles one engi, then Anet must have some sort of buff in store for thieves… right?

On a side note, I also play engineer, and yay! Now when I go an SD build it will be even easier to kill thieves! kitten kitten hard counters!

Mayama.1854:

Static.9841:

All classes get blind and evade, this isn’t a buff or a new addition. Other classes also have access to stealth.

Go to the gw2 wiki and count how many blinds or evades other classes have compared to the thief

Are you being wilfully dense or are you just trying to clutch at straws now because you just -have- to make some kind of comment despite having very little idea what the debate is even about.

The number of blinds and evades isn’t the question, some class builds have tons of vigor uptime, classes can trait for blinds, utilities, weapon skills, whatever. You are citing a standard debuff option that all classes have access to. An evade does nothing to your enemy except either put an attack on CD or just a whiffed auto attack that you’re not going to care about anyway. Blind stops your next attack from landing, hardly a problem unless you’re dumb enough to sit and chill in a blind field until it runs out.

S/D thief is the only thief that won’t have too much problem with this because they don’t rely on stealth as much as other builds.

Any thief not traited in acrobatics or signet of agility does not have all the dodge you are insisting they all have.

Now, a 6 second reveal on an instant cast from 2 classes now which will render an entire trait line useless for a minimum of 6 seconds and leaves a thief as a sitting duck depending on the situation. It’s hardly the same thing as an evade or blind is it. Please get educated before you respond next time.

If these forced reveal abilities are going to get used and seen commonplace, it’ll only encourage thieves to play s/d a lot more. Can’t wait to see all the qq posts about that considering people are already ignorantly crying about S/D.