Guild Wars 2

Been hearing a lot about trap thieves and the ridiculousness of this spec but I hadn’t experienced it until now. Needless to say my angus was not peppered.

Discuss.

Im not actually sure what to say.

why would you even stand in his caltrops….

i tried trap thief / ghost thief or what ever today too.
if u stay on map a while, ppl adapt really quick, they get more condi removes for example
also for me they placed like 10 stealth disrupter traps within 2h tho mostly in my field of view so that i could prepare shadow trap , trigger their trap and port away 10k range.

if i want to kill my oponent i prefer power builds in wvw coz even with full offensive s/p build u kill most ppl in wvw – and that really quick. but ghost thief is a really fun troll build many ppl stand still in caltrops even without immobilize. ofc against some ppl without condi remove its just op – SOME of rangers ,eles ,mesmer or war ..other classes i faced had all enough condi remove to get away. and if u keep moving while changing ur direction randomly its IMO hard to place a trap in the way.

btw eles trait to be immune vs condis above 90% is really annoying for ghost thief

Just move man, move

Cynz.9437:

why would you even stand in his caltrops….

Hard to move when perma rooted.

WASD

vespers.1759:

Cynz.9437:

why would you even stand in his caltrops….

Hard to move when perma rooted.

He has two needle traps, one on his utility bar and one on heal. That’s the only immob.
24 seconds CD, and 30 seconds CD on heal.

Also does stealth not break on trap activation? it does for all the other classes…

vespers.1759:

Also does stealth not break on trap activation? it does for all the other classes…

nope, coz it has no direct dmg

:P Next thing up on the chopping block…

i’m assuming that your other set is either a shortbow or sword/torch. so at worst you have two evade skills (enough to wait it out on the immob), at best you have three, including one that has really high mobility, and if you had used it before the second trap, you’d have outrun him, because chances are he has zero mobility. you do know skills with built-in evasion still work when immobilized, right?

on your condi clears, you were way too fast to pop your heal. your health wasn’t low enough to justify it, and there weren’t exactly a ton of worrysome conditions on you. you burned it on 3 stacks of poison and a bit of weakness. also, entangle is also a survival skill. could’ve popped that for more condi clearing.

and last but not least, no shared anguish? that trait is kinda vital in competitive situations. ambidexterity is not worth losing an extra stunbreak.

i say that as someone that has ranger as his second most played profession and has been enjoying a condi/survival build lately. basic difference is that i go for shortbow instead of axe/dagger, and sharpening stones instead of signet of stone.

Heh… that’s awesome. Also to all the people telling him to move, you can see that he was immobilized the whole time (purple glow around his torso). That was a ton of condi damage really fast. Only thing I would suggest is to save your condi cleanse till you have more condi on you so that it is more effective.

How about we nerf the rune of the trapper? Trapper ranger are equally annoying.

what kind of nerf do u want? if u nerf it too hard no one will use traps again

btw ‘annoying’ is not a reason to nerf.

Nerf it how? The trapper rune was created specifically to buff traps for all trap using classes by adding a really useful ability to, y’know, setting up a field of traps in stead of being forced to “melee trap”

MUDse.7623:

what kind of nerf do u want? if u nerf it too hard no one will use traps again

btw ‘annoying’ is not a reason to nerf.

No it’s just that most people cry for a thief nerf – and I kind of guess that’s the reason for this thread. I’m trying to explain that it’s the rune, not thief, but people just don’t listen.

This build is so broken. I finally got a dire set just out of boredom and having not tried a perma-stealth trapper.

It was just a simple, silly style that really devolves in to a ‘needle trap’ rotation where you trap, pop double caltrops and then move off to the side to lolseeker stealth until the next round.

The only real way to fight it is to dodge over traps and use reveal utilities/traps or stand in the smoke field and eat one of the wet-noodle heartseekers for your short chance of an extended lockdown kill, but with all that vit+toughness it’s hard to do alone. Especially if the trapper is offset p/d.

Anet needs to delete dire (or atleast make condi damage a minor attribute), which would fix a lot of imba in a lot of places.

But trapper runes seriously need to be changed from stealth to something else. Instant Stunbreak traps maybe? Condi clear traps? I dunno, not stealth. It already dilutes some of the exclusivity of stealth from Thief/Mes/Engi/Ranger, and can turn rangers in to something almost as annoying as trapper thief!

its not the rune coz stealth itself is not the strong part of it , but REMAINING in stealth is the reason that works wich is because of the thief trap skills design.

the question here is tho: is this build too strong?

IMO its not coz u only will face it in wvw and only while running around solo or in smal groups aka roaming. if u dont have any condi cleanse in ur roaming build then its ur own fault. if u do have condi clease u can just walk on. most roaming builds have more mobility then trapper thief (if he uses shortbow to keep up he prob will get an initative problem to keep up stealth or has all traps still ready)

Woaden.9425:

But trapper runes seriously need to be changed from stealth to something else. Instant Stunbreak traps maybe? Condi clear traps? I dunno, not stealth. It already dilutes some of the exclusivity of stealth from Thief/Mes/Engi/Ranger, and can turn rangers in to something almost as annoying as trapper thief!

dont forget the upcomming dragonhunter

MUDse.7623:

Woaden.9425:

But trapper runes seriously need to be changed from stealth to something else. Instant Stunbreak traps maybe? Condi clear traps? I dunno, not stealth. It already dilutes some of the exclusivity of stealth from Thief/Mes/Engi/Ranger, and can turn rangers in to something almost as annoying as trapper thief!

dont forget the upcomming dragonhunter

Hah! Ya that’s what I mean. Thief/Mes/Engi always had access (allbeit fairly small for Engi), then came along Ranger with just a short CD ’Hunter’s Shot’ (and I guess their foraged stealth). Then trapper runes happened and it’s like, ’okay.. even more Ranger access to stealth. And now comes the DH.

Granted trapper runes in all of their hands isn’t ‘OP’, but as shown here – it certainly can be if used by thief just because of all our other bonuses with stealth.

Imagine if Chrono could trap…

It a catch 22. All that makes trapper runes work is the stealth on trap. Rangers and the soon to be DH will still lose that stealth if a trap triggered. I use a trap ranger. Were that ranger to lose stealth on traps he would still be a trap ranger. The stealth they can get is handy but not build defining.

Thieves rely on stealth for damage mitigation, to clear conditions and to get major attacks off. A Nerf to trapper rune is a nerf to stealth which is a nerf to thieves moreso then any other class. Add damage back to a thief trap and few thieves will take the traps or the runes.

Traps become next to useless to a thief if that stealth not there.
There are better options to traps if there no trappers runes.

Were stealth removed on setting a trap and it became something else any other proffession with traps would benefit more because they rely on stealth less then does a thief.

Be careful what you ask for.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m assuming that your other set is either a shortbow or sword/torch. so at worst you have two evade skills (enough to wait it out on the immob), at best you have three, including one that has really high mobility, and if you had used it before the second trap, you’d have outrun him, because chances are he has zero mobility. you do know skills with built-in evasion still work when immobilized, right?

on your condi clears, you were way too fast to pop your heal. your health wasn’t low enough to justify it, and there weren’t exactly a ton of worrysome conditions on you. you burned it on 3 stacks of poison and a bit of weakness. also, entangle is also a survival skill. could’ve popped that for more condi clearing.

and last but not least, no shared anguish? that trait is kinda vital in competitive situations. ambidexterity is not worth losing an extra stunbreak.

i say that as someone that has ranger as his second most played profession and has been enjoying a condi/survival build lately. basic difference is that i go for shortbow instead of axe/dagger, and sharpening stones instead of signet of stone.

Yes I know there’s a lot of things I could have done… However I had no idea the thief was there. Thought the first trap was just leftover one which is why I used the heal. Also evading would do nothing when the condis are already applied, the shortbow is a terrible, terrible weapon. I could have used entangle sure, but I wanted to see what would happen.

To everyone else:

I’m not necessarily suggesting a nerf to trapper runes (i don’t think they are too strong) but the thief stealth should break on trap activation in fairness. that thief was in stealth 100% of the time. There’s nothing you’re going to do against that except flail around wildy.

Also trap ranger is barely a thing anymore. Since we can’t throw traps we can’t control the stealth. Nobody is running a trapper setup anymore.

Cynz.9437:

why would you even stand in his caltrops….

He had immobilize on him

i just faced a situation where that build really shines

if u stay in SM while it gets flipped, then add some trapps in way ppl sweepin for mesmers. as they try to ‘clear’ their new castle they want to kill u so they wont run from u . i just did that like half an hour and killed a few ppl doing so till they were like 8-9 sticking close together and started using stealth disrupting traps which is quite annoying with them hostile npcs when revealed so i left. cheers to u brave piken defenders, im sorry – but was fun (for me)

back to the build itself: i think if they nerf either runes or traps ppl will just play condi thief again and i prefer getting attacked by a trapper thief then a condi thief, coz condi thiefs do a lot more condi preassure (at least i feel so) and from trapper thief u can just walk on and ignore it. tho i think many ppl have a problem with letting someone alive that just has trolled em.. then group up trick him into a stealth disrupter trap and there u go – make sure the thief doesnt see where u placed the trap by placing it while in stealth

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

To be fair… you tripped 4 traps. That’d be 2 x needle trap, the 3s knock-down and the very long range teleport trap; hence the 20 stacks of vulnerability. The needle traps do about 10k damage over 15s when you’ve fully condi food/build/stacked up; you were losing 2400 health per tick I think?

To those saying he used his condi cleanse too fast – debatable. If he hadn’t, he’d have died. What he wasn’t aware of was the cause… They’ve changed thief traps from 1 hour to 3 minute expire i think? Either way, the traps were laid in advance on a pinch point. I do this at camp entrances when trolling.

The problem was standing still after healing; you weren’t to know he had everything off cooldown before you tripped the traps – but if you had dodge rolled immediately after cleansing then the knockdown would have failed. Whether you’d have lived much more remains to be seen.

His traps were off cooldown at the time of activation, so once you cleansed (powerful cleanse) and he’d ported in – dropped the 3s knockdown trap, stole to you for the confusion stacks and more stealth, dropped needle trap – then dodged ontop for more damage and a final withdraw to drop the second needle trap.

You had no chance.

I haven’t used the shadowstep trap, but I’ve done this exact same action to many. Engineers, ele’s, guardians, rangers, mesmers, thieves… they all die; you’re not alone in that.

It’s pure troll. I doubt you’d stand any chance of winning a fight against that thief – not without a hell of a lot of condi cleanse and patience.

Thief traps don’t reveal as they do no physical damage at all. Only one really applies conditions… the others apply vuln due to a trait. I disagree that the trap should reveal, but how about an alternative suggestion:

The trap goes into cooldown once the trap is triggered? That way we can’t pre-lay a trap and when it’s triggered and you cleanse, instantly drop another ontop of you. To prevent placement spam it can have a 3s cooldown on placement (or 4s – to tally with generic stealth skill duration).

Why do I suggest that? Even if he was revealed he can still lay traps and still get away with no issue; you’d have still died basically as you’d have gone into that second set of traps OR he’d have stolen to you and pre-casting a trap, had it drop on you as he arrived. He doesn’t need stealth to do that.

But if those traps were on a 20s cooldown as you’d just tripped them? Well, you’d not have died – he’d have had no traps to drop on you for the second condi bomb. Then again… that’d completely nullify trapper build – and it is fun in a trollish way. People see thieves these days and think easy targets. The amount of bile you get in messages after stomping them, or even multiple, enemies is unbelievable. They expect to win, lose, and then go mental at you. Especially enjoyable at condi builds as they really think thieves are simple-as to them now.

Currently the trapper build allows 2x condi bombs within a matter of seconds (if they prelaid the traps) and that is probably the main issue for any build to counter.

Really I guess if trapper runes were made to have a ICD on how often traps proc stealth, you then couldn’t ‘perma stealth’ as easily and would have to work for your meal in between stealth cooldowns like everyone else! I don’t think that would affect other ‘trapper’ classes much.

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

vespers.1759:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m assuming that your other set is either a shortbow or sword/torch. so at worst you have two evade skills (enough to wait it out on the immob), at best you have three, including one that has really high mobility, and if you had used it before the second trap, you’d have outrun him, because chances are he has zero mobility. you do know skills with built-in evasion still work when immobilized, right?

on your condi clears, you were way too fast to pop your heal. your health wasn’t low enough to justify it, and there weren’t exactly a ton of worrysome conditions on you. you burned it on 3 stacks of poison and a bit of weakness. also, entangle is also a survival skill. could’ve popped that for more condi clearing.

and last but not least, no shared anguish? that trait is kinda vital in competitive situations. ambidexterity is not worth losing an extra stunbreak.

i say that as someone that has ranger as his second most played profession and has been enjoying a condi/survival build lately. basic difference is that i go for shortbow instead of axe/dagger, and sharpening stones instead of signet of stone.

Yes I know there’s a lot of things I could have done… However I had no idea the thief was there. Thought the first trap was just leftover one which is why I used the heal. Also evading would do nothing when the condis are already applied, the shortbow is a terrible, terrible weapon. I could have used entangle sure, but I wanted to see what would happen.

well you’re kinda admitting you let your guard down then.

and the evades wouldn’t do much after the condis were applied, true, but they would’ve kept the condis from all those caltrops on your feet (and, i’d wager, the second needle trap) from being applied. and as i said in my post, it’s even better if your second set is sword/torch, ‘cause sword has two, more reliable evades, one with built-in mobility that could’ve thrown you away from the range of the thief.

If they put damage on traps, it better be on par with pulmonary Impact, damage-wise.

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

You compare apples to oranges. A thief relies on stealth for all manner of boons and benefits where a ranger does not.

Here is the issue with throwing a trap down in another location to gain stealth. Any ambient creature triggers it. Players you are not targetting can trigger it. it becomes another reveal which thieves that rely on stealth try and avoid.

This is why so many thieves will not use specific sigils in comabt. they can trigger while stealthed. Other classes do not have to worry about that.

If I got a trap set up on some other part of an area and am sneaking up behind a person to get my backstab in i do NOT want that trap revealing me. This means if it does this i will not use traps.

Now i would point out that some want the damage component removed from impaling lotus so that they can dodge while stealthed without revealing themselves. i am against this as I feel we already have anough such traits and this will make the ghost theif more a problem. What MIGHT fix this is adding some outright damage ot reaper of grenth. Other than that people have IMMOB breaks for a reason. use it and get out of the area.

As a tief I have been immobbed in an area that then saturated with AOE effects from Eles at range whom i can not touch with any weapon. I die pretty qucik if I have no immob breaks, how is this different?

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

You compare apples to oranges. A thief relies on stealth for all manner of boons and benefits where a ranger does not.

They still have stealth on demand, it just isn’t permanent… it shouldn’t be permanent to begin with.

Here is the issue with throwing a trap down in another location to gain stealth. Any ambient creature triggers it. Players you are not targetting can trigger it. it becomes another reveal which thieves that rely on stealth try and avoid.

this is why you need to be tossing them in places they won’t be activated… every other class deals with this and it works fine. You need to be creative, which is what makes it fun and leads to an element of risk.

This is why so many thieves will not use specific sigils in comabt. they can trigger while stealthed. Other classes do not have to worry about that.

What sigil are these and why would other classes not also have the same issue when stealthed?

See bold.

It’s actually a horrible build that only kills the most non-attentive newbies possible.

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

You compare apples to oranges. A thief relies on stealth for all manner of boons and benefits where a ranger does not.

They still have stealth on demand, it just isn’t permanent… it shouldn’t be permanent to begin with.

Here is the issue with throwing a trap down in another location to gain stealth. Any ambient creature triggers it. Players you are not targetting can trigger it. it becomes another reveal which thieves that rely on stealth try and avoid.

this is why you need to be tossing them in places they won’t be activated… every other class deals with this and it works fine. You need to be creative, which is what makes it fun and leads to an element of risk.

This is why so many thieves will not use specific sigils in comabt. they can trigger while stealthed. Other classes do not have to worry about that.

What sigil are these and why would other classes not also have the same issue when stealthed?

See bold.

I already answered that several times over. You just ignore the answer.

Look I played trapper rune ranger and trapper rune thief before patch and before the damage removed from thief traps. I know the difference. You apparently believe stealth is just stealth.

So one more time.

If my ranger trap triggered while my ranger stealthed there was little to no consequences. My rangers attacks on heals , condition cleanse and ability to survive were not predicated on stealth.

A reveal on a thief going off at the wrong time due to a triggered trap can mean a dead thief.

That you try to suggest all stealth the same for all classes so if a ranger can deal with it why not a thief than you really do not understand how the game works.

It the same reason reveal skills affect a thief more than a ranger.

Now to your sigil. If I am stealthed and have hydromancy on my dagger as I set up for a backstab , if I swap to that dagger set I am revealed.

If I am a ranger doing the same I have not compromised my ability to do damage.

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

You compare apples to oranges. A thief relies on stealth for all manner of boons and benefits where a ranger does not.

They still have stealth on demand, it just isn’t permanent… it shouldn’t be permanent to begin with.

Here is the issue with throwing a trap down in another location to gain stealth. Any ambient creature triggers it. Players you are not targetting can trigger it. it becomes another reveal which thieves that rely on stealth try and avoid.

this is why you need to be tossing them in places they won’t be activated… every other class deals with this and it works fine. You need to be creative, which is what makes it fun and leads to an element of risk.

This is why so many thieves will not use specific sigils in comabt. they can trigger while stealthed. Other classes do not have to worry about that.

What sigil are these and why would other classes not also have the same issue when stealthed?

See bold.

I already answered that several times over. You just ignore the answer.

Look I played trapper rune ranger and trapper rune thief before patch and before the damage removed from thief traps. I know the difference. You apparently believe stealth is just stealth.

So one more time.

If my ranger trap triggered while my ranger stealthed there was little to no consequences. My rangers attacks on heals , condition cleanse and ability to survive were not predicated on stealth.

That you try to suggest all stealth the same for all classes so if a ranger can deal with it why not a thief than you really do not understand how the game works.

It the same reason reveal skills affect a thief more than a ranger.

Now to your sigil. If I am stealthed and have hydromancy on my dagger as I set up for a backstab , if I swap to that dagger set I am revealed.

If I am a ranger doing the same I have not compromised my ability to do damage.

I’m not sure I understand really given that a trapper ranger (pre trap nerf) sacrifices all stun breaks and condition removal (Healing spring was a joke and still is), and defensive utilities to run traps.

So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief?

yes he is.

tho he applies his conditions rather passive by setting traps u got to walk in.
compared to a thief that is constantly shooting at u, a trapper thief doesnt really preassure his oponent, coz its just a condi ‘spike’ then a rather long cd and then again but no constantly applied conditions.

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

babazhook.6805:

Jana.6831:

A trapper thief is a condi thief? They’re even more condi than a condi thief.
Anyway. A ranger loses stealth when the trap is triggered, really? I don’t feel like gearing my ranger or testing that in pvp, so that’s why I ask.

yes this because a ranger trap does direct damage. Rangers still used traps before trappers runes as they not as reliant on stealth as a thief.

Thief traps used to reveal you when using trappers runes because they had direct damage component. Traps were rarely used for this reason. You do not want to lose stealth if trying to clear conditions oir setup a backstab or get away.

Compare this to how a trap ranger/ guardian plays (or did before the trap nerf). They throw traps where enemies AREN’T in order to gain stealth and move around. I used to throw them onto walls and trees so they wouldn’t be triggered. Then when ready you bomb.

If thief traps broke stealth on activation would that have any effect on their ability to cleanse conditions in this manner? they could simply throw down a trap and get stealth to cleanse condis and heal.

Currently they sit in stealth 100% of the time, thus not requiring any creative trap use or danger at all which makes a trap thief miles better than a trap ranger or guardian ever was or will be.

It would also encourage them to use their weapon skills, which this current build completely ignores.

You compare apples to oranges. A thief relies on stealth for all manner of boons and benefits where a ranger does not.

They still have stealth on demand, it just isn’t permanent… it shouldn’t be permanent to begin with.

Here is the issue with throwing a trap down in another location to gain stealth. Any ambient creature triggers it. Players you are not targetting can trigger it. it becomes another reveal which thieves that rely on stealth try and avoid.

this is why you need to be tossing them in places they won’t be activated… every other class deals with this and it works fine. You need to be creative, which is what makes it fun and leads to an element of risk.

This is why so many thieves will not use specific sigils in comabt. they can trigger while stealthed. Other classes do not have to worry about that.

What sigil are these and why would other classes not also have the same issue when stealthed?

See bold.

I already answered that several times over. You just ignore the answer.

Look I played trapper rune ranger and trapper rune thief before patch and before the damage removed from thief traps. I know the difference. You apparently believe stealth is just stealth.

So one more time.

If my ranger trap triggered while my ranger stealthed there was little to no consequences. My rangers attacks on heals , condition cleanse and ability to survive were not predicated on stealth.

That you try to suggest all stealth the same for all classes so if a ranger can deal with it why not a thief than you really do not understand how the game works.

It the same reason reveal skills affect a thief more than a ranger.

Now to your sigil. If I am stealthed and have hydromancy on my dagger as I set up for a backstab , if I swap to that dagger set I am revealed.

If I am a ranger doing the same I have not compromised my ability to do damage.

I’m not sure I understand really given that a trapper ranger (pre trap nerf) sacrifices all stun breaks and condition removal (Healing spring was a joke and still is), and defensive utilities to run traps.

So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.

First you make a straw man argument. That i do not support thief traps forcing a reveal does not translate to “thieves deserve 100 percent stealth uptime”.

Secondly you still do not graps the difference beteen thief stealth and ranger stealth.

First rangers have more health and more toughness. Further they have abilities that can mitigate damage such as blocks/regen/protection that is not as accessible to a thief.

Added to that on each and every thief weapon there is a skill predicated on using stealth. it does not work unless stealthed and in many builds is key to the build. A ranger has no such thing.

Let us look at condition clear. When a thief gets a condition bomb the only way he can deal with it is with SR and stealth. This also helps regen his ghealth as outside of stealth he has little in the way of regen unlike a ranger. If I take a bomb and stealth to clear and recover I am dead meat if a trap triggered as I stealth.

My ranger does not suffer anywhere near the same consequences.

Now let us say we added this to a ranger “On being revealed from stealth your pet can not take conditions for the next 60 seconds” would you use those runes?

Your talking about stunbreaks and the like is immaterial to the discussion. A thief that takes traps gives those up us well. You can not drop a trap if stunned. Again I play a trapper ranger using those runes and your claim they have no other defenses is simpy not true. No theif traits all traps. No smart ranger would either.

We’re not going to agree on this.

vespers.1759:

So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.

if thief gets revealed from traps , u wont see trapper thieves. coz they wont be able to kill anything

but i still see trapper rangers – mostly with LB to get a knockback followed by rapidfire out of stealth. oke thats not really OP but good enough for ppl to use it.

I think Needle Trap should have some direct damage added to it when it’s triggered (You are stepping on needles after all). The number of poison stacks inflicted from Needle Trap should be increased from 1 to 3.

Tripwire should probably have some direct damage added as well, but Needle Trap makes even more sense to do so. Tripwire should additionally apply 10 stacks of vulnerability for 5-10 seconds when it’s triggered to help make it a bit stronger.

Shadow Trap and Ambush are fine having no direct damage.

This should prevent thieves from applying as many conditions while staying in stealth permanently from traps. Needle Trap and Tripwire are a bit more fierce to compensate for them revealing you now. It’s not like you have to stay permanently stealthed to get any use from these traps or trapper runes anyway. Trapper runes still give you stealth, and you can use a stealth attack before a trap gets triggered for some extra pressure if you want. It will require a bit more tactics in your placement of traps and timing, but it would still be strong.

MUDse.7623:

vespers.1759:

So for a trap ranger stealth literally is the only defense. I still don’t see why thieves are a unique snowflake here that deserve 100% stealth uptime.

if thief gets revealed from traps , u wont see trapper thieves. coz they wont be able to kill anything

but i still see trapper rangers – mostly with LB to get a knockback followed by rapidfire out of stealth. oke thats not really OP but good enough for ppl to use it.

Sure they aren’t just using longbow 3? I haven’t seen a single trapper ranger with trapper runes since the change to trap placement.

Not saying they don’t exist, but they are the vast minority because that spec isn’t any good haha.

vespers.1759:

We’re not going to agree on this.

Nope never. It because you apparently have never played a thief and do not understand stealth is not just stealth. The thief has a whole traitline with the bulk os their survival utilities premised on stealth. They have weapon skills that only work when stealthed.

If you can not grasp that point and continue to insisyte stealth is just stealth well you will not ghet a lot of traction here.

Raiden.1375:

I think Needle Trap should have some direct damage added to it when it’s triggered (You are stepping on needles after all). The number of poison stacks inflicted from Needle Trap should be increased from 1 to 3.

Tripwire should probably have some direct damage added as well, but Needle Trap makes even more sense to do so. Tripwire should additionally apply 10 stacks of vulnerability for 5-10 seconds when it’s triggered to help make it a bit stronger.

Shadow Trap and Ambush are fine having no direct damage.

This should prevent thieves from applying as many conditions while staying in stealth permanently from traps. Needle Trap and Tripwire are a bit more fierce to compensate for them revealing you now. It’s not like you have to stay permanently stealthed to get any use from these traps or trapper runes anyway. Trapper runes still give you stealth, and you can use a stealth attack before a trap gets triggered for some extra pressure if you want. It will require a bit more tactics in your placement of traps and timing, but it would still be strong.

They already had that. No one took traps. It was like the reveal trait they used to have on the Stealth line. It killed people.

Gut the spec IMHO.

Raiden.1375:

I think Needle Trap should have some direct damage added to it when it’s triggered (You are stepping on needles after all). The number of poison stacks inflicted from Needle Trap should be increased from 1 to 3.

Tripwire should probably have some direct damage added as well, but Needle Trap makes even more sense to do so. Tripwire should additionally apply 10 stacks of vulnerability for 5-10 seconds when it’s triggered to help make it a bit stronger.

Shadow Trap and Ambush are fine having no direct damage.

This should prevent thieves from applying as many conditions while staying in stealth permanently from traps. Needle Trap and Tripwire are a bit more fierce to compensate for them revealing you now. It’s not like you have to stay permanently stealthed to get any use from these traps or trapper runes anyway. Trapper runes still give you stealth, and you can use a stealth attack before a trap gets triggered for some extra pressure if you want. It will require a bit more tactics in your placement of traps and timing, but it would still be strong.

They already had that. No one took traps. It was like the reveal trait they used to have on the Stealth line. It killed people.

Look the issue is as it ever was and that with d/p. That the only build one can really get this perma stealth and used as it is by ghost thieves it really not all that effective a build. It a fad that will pass as people adapt.

The other day I was immobbed on a castle wall while defending and then AOE dropped on me. I had used my immob break . it was death. It does not mean ranged AOE has to be removed. You get imobbed in an aoe there a pretty good chance you die. Why is this different?

babazhook.6805:

vespers.1759:

We’re not going to agree on this.

Nope never. It because you apparently have never played a thief and do not understand stealth is not just stealth. The thief has a whole traitline with the bulk os their survival utilities premised on stealth. They have weapon skills that only work when stealthed.

If you can not grasp that point and continue to insisyte stealth is just stealth well you will not ghet a lot of traction here.

I’m quite clear on your argument i just don’t agree with you.

Funny.

People don’t want the rune of the trapper nerf, instead only specifically the thief.

(This being probably the only build that heavily relies on traps, let alone uses them – I don’t mind the trapper nerf, since then the traps will go back to sitting in the dust…)

Zero Day.2594:

Funny.

People don’t want the rune of the trapper nerf, instead only specifically the thief.

Yes because the runes are not the problem? They function the same way on Guardian and on Ranger and there’s no issue.

But the way thief traps are set up allows them to stay perma stealthed which is ridiculous. Why nerf the runes when you could just add direct damage to traps to bring them in line with the others?