Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

The “no other class can [something ]” arguments really fall flat. Every class in this game can do something unique. Also, considering they removed the ability to CnD off walls in keeps, and now it is back, either it’s a bug that you should report, or they thought there was enough counterplay with stealth disruptor traps, arrow carts, sic em, and utility goggles.

I am afraid they thought that … they made the new dailies and the NPE … yes, I think they could really think so … that you have to pack class specific counters now instead of generic counters. When, oh when, will we get skills that’ll block ranger only attacks/skills … never happen, right … but, of course, we need to pack something against thievs and please don’t say “But rangers and mesmers can stealth as well” – they can, but I’ve never used Sic’em on a Mesmer …

Stealth Traps are useless when the thief wants to remain hidden. As long as they have NPCs and walls and gates to stealth from they’ll never bother attacking a player. So stealth traps only work when you place them at a wall break before the enemy rushes in or when you decide to play thief bait against a thief who actually wants to fight.

In all other situations it is 10 mats wasted, especially since you can’t plant many stealth traps to cover a bigger area …

Akumetsu.8591:

I think most people’s problem with stealth really stems from the shadow arts tree and its ability in modes like wvw to heal to full hp very quickly with 0 counter play to it. This trait really should be changed to something that rewards the thief for smart play rather than sucking, getting bopped and stealthing away to then try to re engage 5 seconds later at full hp. As for spvp people just need to stop complaining about stealth lol :P.

This. SA Thieves are just boring to fight usually. I find Trickery much more engaging, I can’t live without it anymore.

HtFde.3856:

You lose a lot of damage, yes, but when your main intention is to remain hidden in the keep/tower to solo-cap it when empty[ or to revive teammates then stealth and not damage is your priority. Since we can now retrait “on the fly” all you need is a few moments out of combat. I actually preferred the old way of talking to the class trainer (cost removal is ok, though) because some classes prefer benefit more from this and on-the-fly retraiting has made dungeons even less appealing than before.

Yes, but like I said, any other class can do the same thing. Stealth helps to hide but you can hide without using stealth. And like I also said – I rarely hid in towers, especially since the guys chasing me knew how to kill me (it’s great, right? there are actually people out there who know how to deal with a thief!) but I opened the towers the conventional way, like every other class can do it. And in fact i once interrupted a necro soloing a tower – I was really impressed and let him “cap” it (he was then interrupted by someone else coming in).

HtFde.3856:

Portal is a very powerful thing and I guess there’s at least half as many posts about mesmer portals as there’s about thieves and stealth. Catch is, though, portals are visible, make a sound and can be a very bad experience for people using it because your enemies will know exactly where your zerg will appear …

You can’t kill a zerg with 3 people * shrug* and that was my point.

Jana.6831:

You can’t kill a zerg with 3 people * shrug* and that was my point.

ponders – 2 hammer guardians + 3 superior arrow carts and fully trained … how big a zerg? ^^

HtFde.3856:

Jana.6831:

You can’t kill a zerg with 3 people * shrug* and that was my point.

ponders – 2 hammer guardians + 3 superior arrow carts and fully trained … how big a zerg? ^^

Yeah, you’re the man! Now you only need to kill one single glassy thief and you’re good =)

yolo swaggins.2570:

Chairface.9036:

So many saying thief is balanced simple because its not impossible to catch/kill them.

That’s not the point, the point is they are not balanced with the other classes in many different scenarios, especially WvW.

Neither is every other class. Why is that even a point?

Let me ask you this; all other class use effort to be effective, so why is ok for 1 class only not make any effort?

Let me ask you another; all class skills and traits are slave to long cooldown. why 1 class only have almost no cooldown and can spam same skill over and over?

This is point; all class make huge sacrifice and thief make no sacrifice. Just repeat same skill over, over. Why is only thief class not have same cooldown like other class? Let me ask you one last question; why thief class only class can instant kill over and over? Yes other class can instant kill but have to wait because slave to long cooldown, but why not thief?

That is what make thief class different than other class; thief do not need sacrifice anything to be effective and have stealth waiting for them to run and hide, always Even Warrior (king of dps and damage) make sacrifice for long cooldown to be effective, so why make 1 class not be same?

Solution; make thief have cooldown like all other class; remove innatiative
Solution 2; remove all stealth and all critic damage from thief traits
Solution 4; nerf all thief damage 50%

Than thief class will be almost balance like all other class.

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Chairface.9036:

So many saying thief is balanced simple because its not impossible to catch/kill them.

That’s not the point, the point is they are not balanced with the other classes in many different scenarios, especially WvW.

Neither is every other class. Why is that even a point?

Let me ask you this; all other class use effort to be effective, so why is ok for 1 class only not make any effort?

Let me ask you another; all class skills and traits are slave to long cooldown. why 1 class only have almost no cooldown and can spam same skill over and over?

This is point; all class make huge sacrifice and thief not? Just repeat over, over. I have more question; Mesmer and thief are stealth class, so what difference between Mesmer stealth and thief stealth? Which class stealth is challenge? Why is one class stealth is problem than other class stealth?

A spammable thief skill has a CD. It is called initiative and it ties to all weapon skills for both weapons. Once initiative is gone, all weapon skills are put on a shared CD for both weapons.

That doesn’t happen for other professions and most of their skills deal more damage or longer lasting conditions simply because spending 12 initiative on a single skill would add up to the condition duration or damage of other profession’s skills of equal function.

So for argument’s sake, it is better for you to not have a point than a bad point in regards to CDs.

Jana.6831:

HtFde.3856:

Jana.6831:

You can’t kill a zerg with 3 people * shrug* and that was my point.

ponders – 2 hammer guardians + 3 superior arrow carts and fully trained … how big a zerg? ^^

Yeah, you’re the man! Now you only need to kill one single glassy thief and you’re good =)

If the thief appears in the portal … no worries

DarkSyze, your “solutions” just lost you any sort of credibility you had.

As for the initiative argument, As Yolo said it’s a global CD for the entire class. With other classes, if you have skills on CD you can swap to another weapon and have more cooldowns to use. With thief, if you blow all you ini you are without any weapon skills until you get some more which can mean your death because you are stuck in the open and are a free kill for anyone for a good 6-7 seconds.

And for any sort of sacrifice argument, Thief has to sacrifice a ton, but when in the hands of a player who knows how to adapt to those weaknesses you may not notice that they are actually quite vulnerable when things don’t go their way.

That’s all for now, I’ll be back with more stuff when there’s more to reply to. Good day all!

Ario.8964:

DarkSyze, your “solutions” just lost you any sort of credibility you had.

As for the initiative argument, As Yolo said it’s a global CD for the entire class. With other classes, if you have skills on CD you can swap to another weapon and have more cooldowns to use. With thief, if you blow all you ini you are without any weapon skills until you get some more which can mean your death because you are stuck in the open and are a free kill for anyone for a good 6-7 seconds.

And for any sort of sacrifice argument, Thief has to sacrifice a ton, but when in the hands of a player who knows how to adapt to those weaknesses you may not notice that they are actually quite vulnerable when things don’t go their way.

That’s all for now, I’ll be back with more stuff when there’s more to reply to. Good day all!

I write some solution; it is not mine I do research and experience thief problem too in wvw and pvp like other player. I am credible with other player who find same problem with thief. and also i do research to see if problem was there before. Yes thief problem was there before; 2 year+beta. If you are 2 year old player+beta; you should know credibility already (i can post credibility past source again if want)

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

Fritz.5026:

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

Well that’s really just a personal issue. Sorry you couldn’t finish the game due to yourself.

Why did you even buy the game if you hate stealth THAT MUCH?

You’re probably a troll though.

Zero Day.2594:

Fritz.5026:

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

Well that’s really just a personal issue. Sorry you couldn’t finish the game due to yourself.

Why did you even buy the game if you hate stealth THAT MUCH?

---

You’re probably a troll though.

I do not think Fritz is troll.
Everyone who say thief stealth is problem is troll include thief player who say same?. Everyone who question thief class is a troll? Everyone who do not agree with thief class is troll? Troll, Troll, Troll everyone who not say yes to thief class. I buy game and i did not know stealth was problem and not challenge; should i know before? Area net post in website that stealth is problem and not challenge? where is post? I start make more time with other mmo game that is challenge and fun; why waste time with fast everything game? Why waste time with no challenge stealth? Mmo game should be fun and challenge and take time to learn; no fast everything and instant everything and spam same over and over (spvp and wvw). What make me sad is guild wars 2 is only mmo game that player kill big boss very fast; my server kill Lord big boss less than 30 seconds, sometime faster; do you understand problem? What purpose give thief too much stealth? why purpose give thief too much mobility? why purpose give them too much damage? why purpose give them too much everything? It is not ok for mmo game who want take time to learn and have fun. Have everything with too much is not ok! that is problem with guild wars 2. Too much condition, too much dps, too much mobility, too much stealth, too much health, too much defense, too much everything+fast everything+ Instant Kill, Instant burst, Instant everything=Bad Game.

Even if prepare in 15 minute- 30 minute; check build, check gear, check food, check weapon, check everything and enter wvw; instant kill class kill player. Guild Wars 2 is nice game but too much everything; too much stealth and too fast everything, make it worth not too much of my time. That’s all. I will spend a little bit wvw time for Pve.

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

Fritz.5026:

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

Well that’s really just a personal issue. Sorry you couldn’t finish the game due to yourself.

Why did you even buy the game if you hate stealth THAT MUCH?

---

You’re probably a troll though.

Everyone who say thief stealth is problem is troll include thief player who say same?. Everyone who question thief class is a troll? I buy game and i did not know stealth was not challenge; should i know before? Area net post in website that stealth is problem and not challenge? where is post?

Not sure what’s up with you but you see fritz just hates stealth in general – so much that it drives him away from playing games. So if he hates stealth that much why did he buy the game?

That’s kind of different from you.

And yes majority who “question” the thief class, or really any other class are either trolls(10.25% of posters) or just whiners(89.25% of posters). And if you notice 0.5% of posters are missing… Now, several months ago (+6-9 months back), the blue moon was up and the 0.5% of posters accumulated that actually cared about balance (and not their bum rashes) and began to post on various (pvp, and balance) forums. And although some of their suggestions were nerfs, but the way they were able to articulate themselves actually showed that they cared for the overall balance of things. It was a very phenomenal happening, but ever since then, such an occurrence hasn’t happened again.

You seem to be troll as well, linking 2 year old videos and forum posts along with weirdly interpreting things (like that even ANet hates thieves post you suggested).

I was going to type up a big long post on why I hate the thief’s on demand access to stealth and class design in general,…then I thought what’s the point?

Simple fact, thieves are a profession that have been unfortunately designed around the way stealth works in this game. Heck, they have an entire trait line devoted to the dang mechanic. Sure mesmer’s do too, engie’s have a bit but I think it can be said that thieves are the undisputed kings of stealth in GW2. BECAUSE OF THAT they are designed to be squishy, not have that much condition cleanse, and be mobile as hell (mobile meaning able to get in and out of a fight quickly, not dodging everything left and right.) Sure you can make a thief that uses evasion more than stealth, but that requires so much more effort and if you slip up once it can lead to disaster.

Plus the main thing I think people hate about thieves (myself included) is how in WvW they just appear out of nowhere and burst you down before you even know what happened, then when you activate your defenses, they stealth and run away, wait to regain whatever initiative they had to use, then come back in because they know your stuff is on cooldown and now can kill you much easier. PvP this isn’t such a big problem because it’s Conquest, requiring your team to capture and hold points, so the thief has to get close, as well as hold their ground, something the class is not really designed to do, plus stealth doesn’t contribute to capturing a point.

So yeah, my point, is they nerf stealth, the thief would be ruined because it is one of the class’s primary survival mechanics. Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage. My advice for all stealth haters, just get used to it and learn to deal with it, it’s probably not going to go away.

Zero Day.2594:

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

Fritz.5026:

Personally I dislike stealth in general, and I do not mean limited to this game. When I look at any mmo game that is pvp-centric and I see it has a stealth class I take a pass on the entire game.

I bought this game back when it first came out and I still to this day have never made it to max level with a character. I have tried to play it several times, but my disdain of the stealth mechanics in general always drives me away.

I check back from time to time hoping to see that thieves have been nerfed to a state of being a joke class, because I like most the rest of the game, but it never happens. Quite the opposite for the majority of this games life actually. For most of the first couple years it seemed this class was the developers golden child.

Well that’s really just a personal issue. Sorry you couldn’t finish the game due to yourself.

Why did you even buy the game if you hate stealth THAT MUCH?

---

You’re probably a troll though.

Everyone who say thief stealth is problem is troll include thief player who say same?. Everyone who question thief class is a troll? I buy game and i did not know stealth was not challenge; should i know before? Area net post in website that stealth is problem and not challenge? where is post?

Not sure what’s up with you but you see fritz just hates stealth in general – so much that it drives him away from playing games. So if he hates stealth that much why did he buy the game?

That’s kind of different from you.

And yes majority who “question” the thief class, or really any other class are either trolls(10.25% of posters) or just whiners(89.25% of posters). And if you notice 0.5% of posters are missing… Now, several months ago (+6-9 months back), the blue moon was up and the 0.5% of posters accumulated that actually cared about balance (and not their bum rashes) and began to post on various (pvp, and balance) forums. And although some of their suggestions were nerfs, but the way they were able to articulate themselves actually showed that they cared for the overall balance of things. It was a very phenomenal happening, but ever since then, such an occurrence hasn’t happened again.

You seem to be troll as well, linking 2 year old videos and forum posts along with weirdly interpreting things (like that even ANet hates thieves post you suggested).

I am sorry

I never post arena net hate thieves, i say arena net find thief concern; i even post link with thread. I want ask you question, you say (89.25% are whinners; should that be concern? If large percent of play complain, should any game company investigate and fix? I read all time of hacker and spammer in game; so example; if 89.25% player complain about them, should arena net ignore them? Is that why i read they are still many here? Why after 2 year+beta; thieves still can perma-stealth, instant kill, stealth on wall? i read the thief nerf patch for them, why they still here in game? Player 2 year+beta complaint about them all time; again, why after 2 year+beta thieves still do that? If 89.25% of player complain about that; do they have reason to complain? Are they wrong to question, what happen?

Complain and whining is good and bad.Complaint help player find problem and tell game company. If no complaint or hide and delete complaint and not fix complaint; player leave fast; game fail. Yes, too much complain and whining is problem but if large percent complain of same thing; it is game company responsible to investigate and fix; if found; not tiny fix and pretend to fix but serious fix problem. Player is smart; not stupid and will find game company lie and complaint more. If game company is honest, player will complaint less and thank game company for honesty. Also, when game company is honest; player, game and game company relationship is healthy and grow strong.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I was going to type up a big long post on why I hate the thief’s on demand access to stealth and class design in general,…then I thought what’s the point?

Simple fact, thieves are a profession that have been unfortunately designed around the way stealth works in this game. Heck, they have an entire trait line devoted to the dang mechanic. Sure mesmer’s do too, engie’s have a bit but I think it can be said that thieves are the undisputed kings of stealth in GW2. BECAUSE OF THAT they are designed to be squishy, not have that much condition cleanse, and be mobile as hell (mobile meaning able to get in and out of a fight quickly, not dodging everything left and right.) Sure you can make a thief that uses evasion more than stealth, but that requires so much more effort and if you slip up once it can lead to disaster.

Plus the main thing I think people hate about thieves (myself included) is how in WvW they just appear out of nowhere and burst you down before you even know what happened, then when you activate your defenses, they stealth and run away, wait to regain whatever initiative they had to use, then come back in because they know your stuff is on cooldown and now can kill you much easier. PvP this isn’t such a big problem because it’s Conquest, requiring your team to capture and hold points, so the thief has to get close, as well as hold their ground, something the class is not really designed to do, plus stealth doesn’t contribute to capturing a point.

So yeah, my point, is they nerf stealth, the thief would be ruined because it is one of the class’s primary survival mechanics. Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage. My advice for all stealth haters, just get used to it and learn to deal with it, it’s probably not going to go away.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage.

D/D is still very much there =)
Also P/D. And S/D but since the latest nerf it’s not so common.

Ario.8964:

DarkSyze, your “solutions” just lost you any sort of credibility you had.

As for the initiative argument, As Yolo said it’s a global CD for the entire class. With other classes, if you have skills on CD you can swap to another weapon and have more cooldowns to use. With thief, if you blow all you ini you are without any weapon skills until you get some more which can mean your death because you are stuck in the open and are a free kill for anyone for a good 6-7 seconds.

You’re leaving out the bit where there’s those skills that are not weapon related and are tied to the standard cooldown mechanism. So a heal + stealth (if you didn’t pack the signet or Withdraw) + blinding power and/or shadow refuge and shadowstep, wich is usually on the bar will give you initiative independent stealth + gap opener with 6 seconds and more of stealth so that regain enough initiative to either continue the pressure (most often by using shadow return) or to use SB 5 or whatever you have available to disengage.

Initiative is a very tricky mechanism, especially since it regenerates at a rather high rate even without attacking. You’re only in deep … kitten … when you’ve blown your cooldowns already and then run out of initiative as well – something that doesn’t happen very often to an experienced thief unless he’s caught on the wrong foot which does happen from time to time ..

yolo swaggins.2570:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I was going to type up a big long post on why I hate the thief’s on demand access to stealth and class design in general,…then I thought what’s the point?

Simple fact, thieves are a profession that have been unfortunately designed around the way stealth works in this game. Heck, they have an entire trait line devoted to the dang mechanic. Sure mesmer’s do too, engie’s have a bit but I think it can be said that thieves are the undisputed kings of stealth in GW2. BECAUSE OF THAT they are designed to be squishy, not have that much condition cleanse, and be mobile as hell (mobile meaning able to get in and out of a fight quickly, not dodging everything left and right.) Sure you can make a thief that uses evasion more than stealth, but that requires so much more effort and if you slip up once it can lead to disaster.

Plus the main thing I think people hate about thieves (myself included) is how in WvW they just appear out of nowhere and burst you down before you even know what happened, then when you activate your defenses, they stealth and run away, wait to regain whatever initiative they had to use, then come back in because they know your stuff is on cooldown and now can kill you much easier. PvP this isn’t such a big problem because it’s Conquest, requiring your team to capture and hold points, so the thief has to get close, as well as hold their ground, something the class is not really designed to do, plus stealth doesn’t contribute to capturing a point.

So yeah, my point, is they nerf stealth, the thief would be ruined because it is one of the class’s primary survival mechanics. Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage. My advice for all stealth haters, just get used to it and learn to deal with it, it’s probably not going to go away.

Mesmer have stealth; and their stealth is not primary defense; yes they have clones but even clones and thief have clones too; thieves guild and they are more stronger and more survive than mesmer clones and phant. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thieves_Guild . Thief class is very too much efficient than all class. If you take all class and add together, you get thief. Why thief stealth should be primary if they have; fastest mobility, fastest kill, fastest teleport, fastest evasion, fastest dodge, fastest everything?… so how is their stealth their primary defense when they have all that? Why would thief waste time with stealth if they can do all of the other in few second? I see thief all time in wvw and spvp not use stealth and survive and still efficient. is this joke? it do not make sense. Stealth is just excuse for thief who want everything and want have everything ready without effort and to get away from all situation without consequence.

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I was going to type up a big long post on why I hate the thief’s on demand access to stealth and class design in general,…then I thought what’s the point?

Simple fact, thieves are a profession that have been unfortunately designed around the way stealth works in this game. Heck, they have an entire trait line devoted to the dang mechanic. Sure mesmer’s do too, engie’s have a bit but I think it can be said that thieves are the undisputed kings of stealth in GW2. BECAUSE OF THAT they are designed to be squishy, not have that much condition cleanse, and be mobile as hell (mobile meaning able to get in and out of a fight quickly, not dodging everything left and right.) Sure you can make a thief that uses evasion more than stealth, but that requires so much more effort and if you slip up once it can lead to disaster.

Plus the main thing I think people hate about thieves (myself included) is how in WvW they just appear out of nowhere and burst you down before you even know what happened, then when you activate your defenses, they stealth and run away, wait to regain whatever initiative they had to use, then come back in because they know your stuff is on cooldown and now can kill you much easier. PvP this isn’t such a big problem because it’s Conquest, requiring your team to capture and hold points, so the thief has to get close, as well as hold their ground, something the class is not really designed to do, plus stealth doesn’t contribute to capturing a point.

So yeah, my point, is they nerf stealth, the thief would be ruined because it is one of the class’s primary survival mechanics. Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage. My advice for all stealth haters, just get used to it and learn to deal with it, it’s probably not going to go away.

Mesmer have stealth; and their stealth is not primary defense; yes they have clones but even clones and thief have clones too; thieves guild and they are more stronger and more survive than mesmer clones and phant. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thieves_Guild . Thief class is very too much efficient than all class. If you take all class and add together, you get thief. Why thief stealth should be primary if they have; fastest mobility, fastest kill, fastest teleport, fastest evasion, fastest dodge, fastest everything?… so how is their stealth their primary defense when they have all that? is joke and do not make sense.

Mesmers can just summon the same clones and phantasms again shortly afterwards so that is a moot point.

DarkSyze – man you need to use FACTUAL evidence not anecdotal stupidity like fastest evasion fastest kill fastest everything… wtf does that even mean

Thieves Guild has a ridiculous cooldown you may be able to use it once a fight

Mesmers have phantasms and clones on weapon skills there is no comparison

Unless you use FACTS and stop using “fastest kill” no one can take you seriously

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze – man you need to use FACTUAL evidence not anecdotal stupidity like fastest evasion fastest kill fastest everything… wtf does that even mean

Thieves Guild has a ridiculous cooldown you may be able to use it once a fight

Mesmers have phantasms and clones on weapon skills there is no comparison

Unless you use FACTS and stop using “fastest kill” no one can take you seriously

Facts? Here is 2 year+ beta Fact; see no serious change to thief class even this year 2015.
and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

I always do research when i post; that is why research is good for find fact and result; very simple.

DarkSyze.8627:

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze – man you need to use FACTUAL evidence not anecdotal stupidity like fastest evasion fastest kill fastest everything… wtf does that even mean

Thieves Guild has a ridiculous cooldown you may be able to use it once a fight

Mesmers have phantasms and clones on weapon skills there is no comparison

Unless you use FACTS and stop using “fastest kill” no one can take you seriously

Facts? Here is 2 year+ beta Fact; see no serious change to thief class even this year 2015.
and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

I always do research when i post; that is why research is good for find fact and result; very simple.

The existence of this thread is a FACT that Thieves are OP? LOL

OK man keep doing research and you will see PLENTY of nerfs since the beta to the Thief class

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze.8627:

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze – man you need to use FACTUAL evidence not anecdotal stupidity like fastest evasion fastest kill fastest everything… wtf does that even mean

Thieves Guild has a ridiculous cooldown you may be able to use it once a fight

Mesmers have phantasms and clones on weapon skills there is no comparison

Unless you use FACTS and stop using “fastest kill” no one can take you seriously

Facts? Here is 2 year+ beta Fact; see no serious change to thief class even this year 2015.
and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

I always do research when i post; that is why research is good for find fact and result; very simple.

The existence of this thread is a FACT that Thieves are OP? LOL

OK man keep doing research and you will see PLENTY of nerfs since the beta to the Thief class

See thief now and compare with past 2012; what plenty of nerfs? I want you read this; http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

You know, I’m going to just be “that” guy.

Is it me, or does DarkSyze sound a lot like Burnfall?

As for stealth, nothing more needs said past the earlier comments from TheLastNobody. I’ve said for friggin months Acrobatics needs to be evened out to where it’s as overall “desired” for Thieves as Shadow Arts. But, you can’t blame the users of the class for (generally) going with the option that allows for more condition dropping, extra health regain, and free blinds (depending on how you trait in SA).
You have to blame the designers of the game for making the class’ durability so bleeding reliant on such a mechanic. Full Stop.

Although, considering how hated Stealth is, I would honestly think folk wouldn’t whinge when an evasion Thief whacks ’em … but we all know how futile that hope is.

Advent.6193:

You know, I’m going to just be “that” guy.

Is it me, or does DarkSyze sound a lot like Burnfall?

As for stealth, nothing more needs said past the earlier comments from TheLastNobody. I’ve said for friggin months Acrobatics needs to be evened out to where it’s as overall “desired” for Thieves as Shadow Arts. But, you can’t blame the users of the class for (generally) going with the option that allows for more condition dropping, extra health regain, and free blinds (depending on how you trait in SA).
You have to blame the designers of the game for making the class’ durability so bleeding reliant on such a mechanic. Full Stop.

Although, considering how hated Stealth is, I would honestly think folk wouldn’t whinge when an evasion Thief whacks ’em … but we all know how futile that hope is.

Unless I’m mistaken, the thread is about “stealth” not the “users”. The “negative” feedback shared here by some target how the ability was designed, not how people use it. When people say “stealth” is OP, they don’t mean X is OP with “stealth”. They mean the ability, as designed, is “OP”.

Saying you have to deal with it because there is little hope it will change is one thing, refusing to acknowledge it can be OP in some circumstance is quite another.

DarkSyze.8627:

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze.8627:

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze – man you need to use FACTUAL evidence not anecdotal stupidity like fastest evasion fastest kill fastest everything… wtf does that even mean

Thieves Guild has a ridiculous cooldown you may be able to use it once a fight

Mesmers have phantasms and clones on weapon skills there is no comparison

Unless you use FACTS and stop using “fastest kill” no one can take you seriously

Facts? Here is 2 year+ beta Fact; see no serious change to thief class even this year 2015.
and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

I always do research when i post; that is why research is good for find fact and result; very simple.

The existence of this thread is a FACT that Thieves are OP? LOL

OK man keep doing research and you will see PLENTY of nerfs since the beta to the Thief class

See thief now and compare with past 2012; what plenty of nerfs? I want you read this; http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Read it. Rolled my eyes once I reached the combat log part as he only showed 1 side of it. The thief seemingly dropped shadow refuge for no reason?

The meta didn’t evolve because of thieves. It evolved because bunkers realized if they split their stats and went hybrid they could still deal great damage while maintaining survivability. Other zerker classes realized they could put points in survivability and still maintain burst by making up for it with sigils. The current meta evolved because sigils got independent cooldowns so they could stack sigils of the same type and effectively cover multiple weaknesses of their builds.

He also says thieves (and mesmers) push other zerkers out of the meta, but fails to recognize medi guard or S/F ele as actually pressuring and downing thieves pretty well.

In fact, I would argue that the current meta has forced thieves into their current builds which almost all revolve around 6 in trickery to try to break through the numerous defensive and offensive boons stacked by these classes.

Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%.
Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
Stealth: The duration of Revealed has been increased to 4 seconds when coming out of stealth via an attack.
Reduced quickness from 100% attack speed to 50%. (i would argue this hurt thief more than most)
Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.
Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health.
Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.
Pistol Whip: This skill has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE.
Disabling Shot (Shortbow): Reduced the length of this skill’s evasion component from 100% of the skill’s duration to 64% of the skill’s duration—an overall reduction of .3 seconds.
Choking Gas: Reduced the poison per pulse from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second. but at the expense of -
-Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
-Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init. (removal 4combo in bp)
-Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1
-Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
Black Powder: Increased the interval between pulses to 2 seconds. Reduced the duration of blind to 2 seconds.

I’ll just leave this here… Thief hasn’t been nerfed right? So obvious DarkSyze is a noob/troll

DarkSyze.8627:

See thief now and compare with past 2012; what plenty of nerfs? I want you read this; http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Very nicely worded, I must say.

And this is only looking at it from the sPvP angle and leaves out the group stealth issue and the hiding-in-structures issue, both of which are more or less WvW exclusive issues.

HtFde.3856:

DarkSyze.8627:

See thief now and compare with past 2012; what plenty of nerfs? I want you read this; http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Very nicely worded, I must say.

And this is only looking at it from the sPvP angle and leaves out the group stealth issue and the hiding-in-structures issue, both of which are more or less WvW exclusive issues.

It’s already been discussed in the PvP forum

It is “worded” nicely but it is written by just that.. a writer

This person is not a valued member of the PvP community and it was largely debunked by members of the PvP community – Celestial D/D Elementalist + Cele Rifle Engi + Shoutbow Warr are dominating right now and it has nothing to do with Mesmers and Thieves

foste.3098:

Coronit.9432:

And D/D has together with P/P the worst moblitity of all weapon sets.

That is so wrong. D/D has mobility that rivals that of the shortbow and in turn the mobility of d/p, let me brake it down:
heartseeker costs 3 ini and has a range of 450 units.
Infiltrator’s arrow costs 6 ini and has a range of 900 units.
So 2 heartseekers take you as far as 1 i.arrow, BUT they are also affected by swiftness so that 450 range becomes 600. And so 2 heartseekers can move you 1200 units for the same cost as 1 i.arrow.
Now the movement on h.seeker goes both ways and if you have cripple or chill it becomes much worst that i.arrow.
Also keep in mind that you have to angle the camera the correct way so that you don’t stop half way through the leap(don’t pan in down like you do when you stack stealth with black powder).
Ofcourse the disadvantage h.seeker has, in comparison to infiltrator’s strike/ arrow, is that it is not a instant teleport (this is a non issue with d/p since you have shadow shot), but it makes up for it because you can use it whenever you like to close distance or create it (since it has not mechanic like infiltrator’s return and is 3 initiative, thus more affordable for chasing/escaping).

On a side note p/d has next to no chasing power seeing how shadow strike is restricted to making distance, not closing it and no land speed (in my eyes it is the second worst set for mobility after p/p).

Well written op, now we can hope the qq-ers actually reed it, and not just constantly cry about teefs and request nerfs…
one can only hope.

As far as mobility goes, that is incorrect. Two heartseekers don’t necessarily mean 1200 range if you have swiftness. You’re right about swiftness, but the time it takes for one heartseeker to complete the move is 3/4 seconds with a 1/4 second aftercast. About 1 second for one full heartseeker. Infiltrators arrow takes about 1/2 second to complete 900 range. If something only takes 1/2 seconds to achieve 900 range, while the other takes 2 seconds to reach 900 range, then you are getting much more bang for your buck with infiltrators arrow. Because heartseeker takes longer to complete, that makes it less mobile than people think it is.

Base speed is ~300 units per second out of combat. If you are moving at 300 units per second and you cast something that moves you only 450 distance over the period of one second, then you only get 150 total distance gained. Since heartseekers distance scales with this though, you would actually get about 250 distance total for each heartseeker when out of combat. In combat, it is roughly 200 distance for each heartseeker. Infiltrators arrow takes 1/2 a second to complete, for a maximum of 900 distance. Again, moving at ~300 u/s out of combat, this equates to 750 total distance gained. And in combat, the arrow gets you about 800 total distance gained, since in combat speed is ~200 u/s. It would take about 4 heartseekers in combat to equal one infiltrators arrow in combat. I hope this makes sense.

Advent.6193:

You know, I’m going to just be “that” guy.

Is it me, or does DarkSyze sound a lot like Burnfall?

As for stealth, nothing more needs said past the earlier comments from TheLastNobody. I’ve said for friggin months Acrobatics needs to be evened out to where it’s as overall “desired” for Thieves as Shadow Arts. But, you can’t blame the users of the class for (generally) going with the option that allows for more condition dropping, extra health regain, and free blinds (depending on how you trait in SA).
You have to blame the designers of the game for making the class’ durability so bleeding reliant on such a mechanic. Full Stop.

Although, considering how hated Stealth is, I would honestly think folk wouldn’t whinge when an evasion Thief whacks ’em … but we all know how futile that hope is.

I think it might be Sanduskel because his posts are highly homogeneous in tactic and persistent.

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Granted most thieves don’t know how to do this, but for the ones that do, there is no defense against this as its instant, and will take about 15-20k off a target, depending on crits. And if the stupid air/fire sigils proc, its an instant kill unless your a heavy that had aegis/prot up.

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

Jana.6831:

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

You do understand what instant kill mean?

DarkSyze.8627:

Jana.6831:

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

You do understand what instant kill mean?

Ele has an instant kill that is more powerful and doesn’t require stealth.

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Jana.6831:

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

You do understand what instant kill mean?

Ele has an instant kill that is more powerful and doesn’t require stealth.

Yes. How many time ele can use instant kill vs thief instant kill+stealth?

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Jana.6831:

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

You do understand what instant kill mean?

Ele has an instant kill that is more powerful and doesn’t require stealth.

Yes. How many time ele can use instant kill vs thief instant kill+stealth?

The same amount. However, ele still has skills they can use. Thief is at half initiative, revealed for 4 seconds and if they havn’t done it properly will probably not be able to get away without burning more initiative.

That’s how the thief works. It isn’t just spamming 5151515151 like I think you are trying to imply. You obviously have not touched on thief personally or in combat. Just lol.

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Jana.6831:

mulzi.8273:

the only real problem i have with thieves is the exploit (and yes, i’m calling it an exploit) of preloading CnD, using steal, and hitting backstab all instantly for massive damage that can almost kill most folks. and on a realtively low cooldown.

Dodge – that’s always a good advise in this game and it helps against CnD as well.

You do understand what instant kill mean?

Ele has an instant kill that is more powerful and doesn’t require stealth.

Yes. How many time ele can use instant kill vs thief instant kill+stealth?

The same amount. However, ele still has skills they can use. Thief is at half initiative, revealed for 4 seconds and if they havn’t done it properly will probably not be able to get away without burning more initiative.

That’s how the thief works. It isn’t just spamming 5151515151 like I think you are trying to imply. You obviously have not touched on thief personally or in combat. Just lol.

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse. Thief will wait for long cooldown after using high damage like other class and wait for long cooldown like mesmer stealth.

Hello, I’m a Thief and I hate Stealth — Not because it’s OP, but because it is a bother.

1) To require to stealth just to backstab someone is a stupid mechanic. It’s not like your target’s back simply disappears when you’re not in stealth. It should be that when I position myself at the back or at flank, the backstab bonus should trigger — automatically. In addition, all sneak attacks should have this same no-stealth-required mechanic.

2) Stealth ruins DPS for SA builds. To get the maximum benefit from SA, the Thief must stay in stealth for the duration while in the mean time not contributing to the team. Often times, stealth is used in combat for the reason posted at #1. It’s a bother and no one really uses SA for this very reason and if the Thief would want to maintain a high DPS they have to stay away from SA. Shadow Arts shouldn’t have to revolve around stealth, it should instead improve shadowstep skills.

3) Revealed is a bother and it is because of stealth. Not only that reveal denies stealth but it also cuts the effectiveness of many skills that Thief uses for survival. For instance, Hide in Shadows. This skill suppose to heal and protect the Thief. However when revealed, its effectiveness diminishes only because stealth cannot protect the Thief from receiving further damage. It would be more effective if the skill shadowsteps us away just like Heart of Shadow from GW1 instead of stealth. It would serve the same purpose.

I have been complaining about stealth for a long time and I am not a supporter of this mechanic. I do accept however that this is a defense mechanism, albeit a horrible one, but there are times that developer have to reiterate and reboot a profession.

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

To be on topic: You apparently do know what spam is. However, I already explained to you how the spamming is balanced by initiative. In all of your research you could not get on a thief and learn it for for yourself but you can most certainly spam 2 year old (and out of date) videos and threads thinking it’ll do anything for your argument.

Please leave.

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief? so you can say same as example; because you are not in hopsital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense

You need to be in a hospital to know why you are sick. Because if you don’t, you could die. Likewise, you need to really play the thief to have any idea why nerfing stealth is a highly stupid idea. And it all has already been explained to you. You just need to read it.

TheLastNobody.8319:

I was going to type up a big long post on why I hate the thief’s on demand access to stealth and class design in general,…then I thought what’s the point?

Simple fact, thieves are a profession that have been unfortunately designed around the way stealth works in this game. Heck, they have an entire trait line devoted to the dang mechanic. Sure mesmer’s do too, engie’s have a bit but I think it can be said that thieves are the undisputed kings of stealth in GW2. BECAUSE OF THAT they are designed to be squishy, not have that much condition cleanse, and be mobile as hell (mobile meaning able to get in and out of a fight quickly, not dodging everything left and right.) Sure you can make a thief that uses evasion more than stealth, but that requires so much more effort and if you slip up once it can lead to disaster.

Plus the main thing I think people hate about thieves (myself included) is how in WvW they just appear out of nowhere and burst you down before you even know what happened, then when you activate your defenses, they stealth and run away, wait to regain whatever initiative they had to use, then come back in because they know your stuff is on cooldown and now can kill you much easier. PvP this isn’t such a big problem because it’s Conquest, requiring your team to capture and hold points, so the thief has to get close, as well as hold their ground, something the class is not really designed to do, plus stealth doesn’t contribute to capturing a point.

So yeah, my point, is they nerf stealth, the thief would be ruined because it is one of the class’s primary survival mechanics. Even if they buffed a dancing build or pistol build, I still don’t see any thieves using anything else other than the popular D/P because of it’s utility and damage. My advice for all stealth haters, just get used to it and learn to deal with it, it’s probably not going to go away.

There’s others that understand… Holly crap…

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

DarkSyze.8627:

Jana.6831:

It’s simple: What I said was true: once you know the thief mechanics you don’t need 3 guys to kill him. Sweeping after a cap is always a good idea and there are all kinds of classes hiding in towers as all of them can solo towers, depending on their skill level.

I am a thief myself and have capped around 30 towers solo, I hid in few of them, I usually used a cata to open them, sometimes a treb.
That a mesmer is easier to catch is your personal opinion.

Want more arguments? Because all we’re doing is running in a circle – you don’t like thieves, we get it, you haven’t figured out their mechanics, we get it, but well.. too bad, I guess.

Jana, i want challenge your argument.
Jana, have you seen this thread? this thread been here long than you; yes 2 years include beta tester player.

1. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Stealth-Attacking-consistently-while-totally-100-stealth

2. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Im-done-playing-a-thief-and-most-likely-GW2/first#post270109

3. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/it-is-possible-thief-can-stealth-almost-2-min-in-WvWvW/first#post400497

4. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-overpowered

So can you say all player include thief player who post in forum don’t know what they talk about? Or do not know their thief class? Or make up problem?

Last question; Is everything player include thief player say from 2 years+beta in forum is here today for thief class?

I want to know just know if they are make up complain and story of thief class stealth, that’s all.

1.) Caused by a culling problem. Fixed.

2.) Caused by a culling problem. Fixed.

3.) Caused by an oversight in the initiative/Shadow Arts system. Fixed. Caused by a bug which allowed for the capture of objectives/defense of objectives while stealthed. Fixed.

4.) A thread/member of the community which has been debunked several times and is blatantly ignorant of how the PvP meta works/basics behind why optimization strategies even occur.

Especially regarding #3, necros used to be overpowered because their marks and wells ignored RI in WvW (as did any non-on-hit condition effects such as caltrops, choking gas, entangle, all poison/fire fields, null field, etc.). You could take a party of necros and flip a camp before swords even popped even if the leader was invuln to incoming damage because all of the damage ignored RI entirely.

You can’t make ludicrous references from topics from two years ago/beta and assume the issues then are still true.

Thinking about it, he does kind of sound like Burnfall. But Burnfall wrote at least somewhat coherently, so I doubt they’re the same person.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience them all time in wvw and spvp. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant. You need to be careful of using that word; not nice.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

DarkSyze.8627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DarkSyze.8627:

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

So you are say thief can not spam? i can show many evidence of thief spam from other thief player. I experience thief spam every time i go to wvw and spvp; so what you say, i do not know what spam is? Initiative is not excuse for thief class; every class should have same punishment and same consequence when not play good; no excuse.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously:

You say “evidence” and then say it should be nerfed due to said evidence, but you do not show any evidence that you’ve played thief to the extent we have. Focusing on a small part of the thief’s issues without factoring in the other problems that are keeping the original problems from being solved shows that you are ignorant to all of the problems revolving around thief. It shows that you do not play thief and have no clue what you are talking about.

And if you had ANY idea what you were talking about, you’de know that no amount of vid and thread spamming will change it or our minds. Deal with it and git gud or don’t and git out.

Example; do you have to be in hospital to be sick? So because i do not play thief class; i do not know what thief class is? I am ignorant for not play thief class? so you say same as example; because you are not in hospital; you are ignorant? It do not make sense.

That’s a horrible analogy.

Just because you’re a die hard NASCAR fan and have seen all the races, you still remain ignorant of what’s happening behind the wheel.

Those drivers, just as those Thieves, make what they do look easy.

I stand by my analogy; i am not ignorant. Ignorant mean- “lack of knowledge and training” ; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant What lack of knowledge i have; i experience thieves all time in wvw and spvp. I have thieves in party, guild and server; zerg. Last; lack of training; i experience thieves in spvp; training game mode. It make no sense what you say about me be ignorant.

I experience and know what stealth is; arena net did not invent stealth! arena net did not invent thief class, arena net did not invent mobility, teleport, evasion, dodge and critic damage. You think i am new to mmo game; ask me before you call me ignorant; not hard; very easy.

So again, just because i do not play thief class, it do not make me or any not thief player ignorant.

Suggestion; You need to be careful of using that word; adjective word of ignorant is stupid, idiot, imbecile. It can get you in serious trouble.

You really don’t know stealth at all.

In the game I come from, stealth on the assassin was free to cast and had a permanent duration, and the class when built right could one-shot literally anything and everything in the game. This same class had access to 40+ straight seconds of hard CC and area denial skills to prevent people from escaping.

Thing was, it was still fair in high tier play.

Stealth is very far from the same in every game, and clearly you do not have experience to understand the difficulty.

I look forward to seeing you in NASCAR as someone mentioned above