Guild Wars 2

We are not hated for our damage so much as the fact we can mangage our abilities to control the fight.

I have other lvl80s that are ok to play..but in WvW give me my thief.

Just the sheer enjoyment of Steal>CnD> BackStab…insert other dmg..dropping a foe in the middle of a hostile supply camp & escaping is more rewarding than zerging on my other 80s.

But..steal must work right..no blade of grass to trip my *teleport up.
No revealed defuff..it’s been 5 seconds +…hmmm, why can’t I restealth. Dang..it still blew my cool downs on my skills..dodge>dodge>..hope for evades..

I’v had friends over at my house watching me do the “thief” thing.
The most common comment is about how finicky some of my skills can be.
The second is “Dude…they need to just AOE instead running around doing nuthin”

Within the next month they get a thief to 80..call me and say..“This is to much work, I’m gonna run my (insert) and run with the zerg.”

As a thief we don’t fight our enemies battles..we choose to be patient and strike at a time of our choosing even if it’s just do distract the zerg to give our guys time to deploy.

Players get mad if you give them the slip..understandably..even though they didn’t die ..no meat taste sweeter than roasted thief..except maybe messmer kabobs (imho).

If a stealth “fix” came into effect would Anet..buff another area or two of thief abilities.
ie:
One minute revealed..but we get a BackStab buff of huge damage or BackStab ANYTIME we are behind an enemy.

Or more teleports tied into attacks..to steal a trick of messmers your enemies also drop target..

Or true Permenant stealth..on till you attack..no “tricks or skill combos”..lazy mode stealth..man that would be nice.

The tears of QQs would be tasty as they eat crow.

Thieves are not the WvW gods you make us out to be, we are more like the devil feeding you lies to make you think we are.

But with a lil bit’o love by Anet to appease the tears of QQ’s …we could be.

This forum title should be called, Perma-Steath Haters

No Sympathy or Remorse for Perma-Stealth Thief

Ever

That’s all..

(Perma-Steatlh)= Wvw gods

being invisible is over the top OP. It has no use in the game and its only use is to do cowardly acts. We have enough cowards in the real world. I would delete invisibility and give them something else. That or drop their hps down to 25 make going into invisible mode damaging to the thief.

I don’t perma-stealth.
Just because I escaped dosn’t mean I am stealthed.

Burnfall…please explain your ideas on balancing a thief to your expectations.
Please remember that stealth is a key mechanic of the current thief abilites & and skills.
To change one would require some change in another area.

Perma-stealth isn’t a free lunch, you have to work at it and be aware of your surroundings. That said it can be sustained long enough for a thief to escape with a bit of luck, which goes back to my above post.

Players get really upset that a thief can escape if the fight goes sour.

I personally think messmers are OP’d with certain spec’s. Let each clone/phantasim they make reduce thier hit points by 1000/500hp or so in wvw/spvp.
I don’t QQ about it..just work harder to counter them.

Rifle Warriors can give you a nasty surprise..but shouldn’t a ranger be more deadly?
I’ll jump the ranger..easier fight.

Elemantalist have some awesome builds..I have to be very careful in open field fights with them. Line of sight is my friend.

No class should dominate all others..without escape abilites the thief would need a major rework.

If GW2 comes out with an anti-stealth class simalar to the Reaver from Dark age of Camelot I’d roll one. I had some great times hunting stealthers in that game, even though I had multiple lvl50’s including an Infiltraitor & Hunter.

Imho Anet should make the ranger beastmaster line a stealth hunter line.
Give the pets the ability to actively seek out and break/apply revealed as a upper level trait, 600 range or so, only works if the ranger is withing 400 range of the pet..ect.
Right now pets are low dmg fire and forget missiles in pvp.

I’m not picking a fight..just discussing personal opinions.

Yngvi, try harder.
25 hitpoints..will not happen. Can you come up with a better way to balance the stealth which you so hate.

A high dmg thief is normally very good or dead with 12000 hit points or less.
The survival oriented thief has Shadow Arts which can better that number.
Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes has to take a hit.

SA gives alot of utility to the thief that practices using his stealth abilities to thier fullest. But..required to 1v1 it is not..an evasion build thief would really make you mad.

Darksidhe.6740:

If GW2 comes out with an anti-stealth class simalar to the Reaver from Dark age of Camelot I’d roll one. I had some great times hunting stealthers in that game, even though I had multiple lvl50’s including an Infiltraitor & Hunter.

Guardian gets fairly close since I swear I can hear thieves hiss when their knives sink into an aegis like some shadow dwelling creature when you shine light on them.

Burnfall.9573:

This forum title should be called, Perma-Steath Haters

No Sympathy or Remorse for Perma-Stealth Thief

Ever

That’s all..

(Perma-Steatlh)= Wvw gods

Just because you can’t fight a thief? Sure we will get this forum renamed to something more along the lines of “QQ here if you can’t do anything better than faceroll”.

Please try to keep the thread civil.
An active discussion is what I am after here.

Guardians are a good counter to a thief that just attacks.
I have one..laugh when they waste BackStab on my aegis.

A good thief will pop out of stealth, pop the aegis then stealth to BS if thats his thing.
Boon stripping and evasion is the most consistant way for me to whittle down guardians..even then I have lost some fights to guardians because I didn’t want to admit that the bunker build was to tough to crack.
I use to love my block>blind & burn build.

Guardians react to the thief attack..what I meant was for the ranger to be a Hunter, pro-active.

Also..tandem thieves can cause peaple to pull thier hair out..much easier to string togther some good combos. Should they be punished for using skill & teamwork?

The biggest problem is that you have bad players too prideful to admit that they are bad. They get called out many times before someone comes along and picks them apart causing them to either submit and admit they are bad, attempt to prove us wrong/right by actually trying out a thief or leave for another forum.

The invisibility from stealth forces the player to think outside the box. It actually makes combat more engaging and weeds out the bads from the goods. Not only that, killing a thief as a thief is a big ego booster there.

Just make stealth like all the other games: We start out with permastealth, then after we initiate the first strike, stealth goes away and the only way to get it back is to run away and avoid damage for about 10 seconds or so. Reduce BS damage if needed, but kitten , make the weaponsets better at the very least. This way, we’re happy with permastealth, and other classes will be happy they don’t have to worry about killing us so much…if they survive the initial burst…

Revealed would have to be way more than 10 sec to stop the nerf crys.

By having a longer than 10 sec revealed..you just killed the Cloak & Dagger #5 attack.
Now you would have to use #3 attack,weapon swap..or just about give up off hand dagger.

Hmm..C&D..grants stealth unless under revealed debuff..if revealed it has the chance to apply on crit:

Chilled
Immoblize
Knock down
Ect..ect ect…Could be anything..but would have to be benefical to the thief to balance the loss of stealth for a longer revealed.
Btw..that just punished any non crit build thief..balancing stealth is not easy.

I still like the ideal of BackStab (any weapon) anytime for a rear attack..if you let a thief get behind you..you pay the price.
But thats just me rambling at this point.

Too much evasion is OP’d 1v1, but will not save you vs a zerg..more tears.

Me..I would not attack from stealth with a long revealed on us..I would save my stealth for a certain set of conditions and when the requirements where in place..use my stealth…more tears. Again nerf crys against thieves.

Keep em coming guys..but remember it is really our get out of jail card letting us escape that makes all the tears atm.

Lots of players will not be happy till a thief is dressed like a pinata and busted on sight.

@ OP …key words “the sheer enjoyment” thats what it is to play a thief. we are not OP. u will not really help with much other than blast finishing pre battle. so i think you mean if its wvw gimme my guard or gimme my necro etc. thief is a joke in group play. very fun to roam tho and roam means 1v 1 usually and 1 v 1 is meaningless in the aspects of gameplay.

Hah..I’m going to have to watch my spelling more..bah..it’s the internetz.

Happy Fourth of July guys..I am glad we have this game & community.

Darksidhe.6740:

Revealed would have to be way more than 10 sec to stop the nerf crys.

By having a longer than 10 sec revealed..you just killed the Cloak & Dagger #5 attack.
Now you would have to use #3 attack,weapon swap..or just about give up off hand dagger.

Hmm..C&D..grants stealth unless under revealed debuff..if revealed it has the chance to apply on crit:

Chilled
Immoblize
Knock down
Ect..ect ect…Could be anything..but would have to be benefical to the thief to balance the loss of stealth for a longer revealed.
Btw..that just punished any non crit build thief..balancing stealth is not easy.

I still like the ideal of BackStab (any weapon) anytime for a rear attack..if you let a thief get behind you..you pay the price.
But thats just me rambling at this point.

Too much evasion is OP’d 1v1, but will not save you vs a zerg..more tears.

Me..I would not attack from stealth with a long revealed on us..I would save my stealth for a certain set of conditions and when the requirements where in place..use my stealth…more tears. Again nerf crys against thieves.

Keep em coming guys..but remember it is really our get out of jail card letting us escape that makes all the tears atm.

Lots of players will not be happy till a thief is dressed like a pinata and busted on sight.

1v1 doesnt matter at all in this game. srry your points are invalid :P

Travlane you are right.
I can play my thief in a zerg..but the playstyle completely changes..and traits.
He just isn’t used to the full potential he is capable of.
Plus avoiding aoe is tiresome with our short range.
Btw I leveled my thief in WvW..died alot..learned alot.

I’v been meaning to switch my Guradian back to a more aggressive build just for kicks and do some roaming, but at character select I keep tabbing my thief.

As a Thief main, I actually agree with getting rid of stealth. It has always been frustrating for other players and the classes with access to stealth always get tons of hate and QQ. I would prefer the Thief to have tons of evades. ANet has said repeatedly that Thieves are supposed to be the most mobile and slippery class. Withdraw and Roll For Initiative are what I’m thinking of. Stealth just makes balance too hard to achieve.

1v1 and 1v2 happens quite often.
Cutting off reinforcments is easy when they come out 1 or 2 at a time following the same route.

We attack a gate..some peaple are on watch. Not just at the keep.

I just don’t see how you can remove stealth completely without breaking trait lines.
Even longer revealed is problematic.

Darksidhe.6740:

I just don’t see how you can remove stealth completely without breaking trait lines.
Even longer revealed is problematic.

Well obviously the traits would be reworked. I don’t think ANet wants to put that much effort into balance so I highly doubt stealth will be changed/removed, I’m just saying what I want personally.

I imagined the Thief as a Scout from Team Fortress 2, rather than a Spy from TF2.

I find that my biggest frustration in dealing with stealth thieves is that there’s no effective counter for their ability, apart from buying traps in WvW which are rather situation.

I’d reckon a better way to deal with stealth is to have some professions apply the revealed debuff with some of their skills. One that comes to mind is having ranger pets apply the debuff for about a 1 – 2 seconds with their basic attack. It’d make pets more valuable in WvW/PvP, won’t break PvE because very few enemies have pets, and the thief can still counter this to some extent by taking down the pet first.

Would this…be breaking the thief profession?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Proposed-Changes-to-Stealth-717

I play a ton of classes and none is so easy to get quick kills and escape as the thief. It is literally too easy.

Good points guys.

Each profession with access to a Revealed debuff in its least used trait line maybe?

If the enemy player can’t apply the debuff .. it’s not our fault.
And can be applied to messmers as well.

Players would still cry because I can escape from combat long enough for my revealed to wear off…but trust me when I say you’ll never make everyone happy.

I still like the ranger pet as a hunter..sniffing out stealthers in keeps.

Awesome effort here guys.
Thanks to everyone particpating in this disscussion.

Darksidhe.6740:

Each profession with access to a Revealed debuff in its least used trait line maybe?

And remove it as automatically applied de-buff after damaging?
Needs something in return.

Yngvi.3452:

being invisible is over the top OP. It has no use in the game and its only use is to do cowardly acts. We have enough cowards in the real world. I would delete invisibility and give them something else. That or drop their hps down to 25 make going into invisible mode damaging to the thief.

bloomin this ^
i hate perma stealth, it needs adressing i have an 80 thief and when i found out about this i was disgusted, seriously???

no just have a cooldown on the combofield and the problem is sorted, you should be able to stack like that.

I’d much rather have that combo field give a life leech, 25% heal, increased dodge/evade chance..after the blind timer was up of course.
Or even..aoe poison cripple.

I think people need to look at stealth differently. Stealth is giving your targets up to 4 seconds of invulnerability from you. The tradeoff is dropping target and the ability to reposition yourself for a better start. In a sense, it’s a fight reset… for both people. When you think of it this way, you realize why stealth is so bad in pvp (spvp and tpvp, not wvw), mediocre in pve, and good in wvw. in pvp, stealthing is only for running away, which is losing the fight, as you are on a very tight time limit, and resetting the fight gives the other team the advantage. In pve, time is the name of the game. The faster you do something, the more gold you get, and the more rewards you get. So stealth is only useful if you are in deep trouble. In wvw, you have tons of time. One match takes a full week, and one siege can last upwards of 2 hours against a fortified keep that’s well defended. In this scenario, the ability to reset a fight and wait to strike until the thief is at the advantage (which is what the class is all about), is very useful, and not harmful at all. This is why people complain. About the best way to counter a thief is to make him think he has the advantage, and when he pushes, you turn on him. Low on initiative because he thought he had the advantage, and with the element of surprise on your side, not his, he will be easy to take down. When you think of stealth in this sense (how most good thieves think of stealth), you end up finding it incredibly easy to beat thieves.

Stealthing also gives you access to more damaging abilities Craig..

RedCobra.7693:

Yngvi.3452:

being invisible is over the top OP. It has no use in the game and its only use is to do cowardly acts. We have enough cowards in the real world. I would delete invisibility and give them something else. That or drop their hps down to 25 make going into invisible mode damaging to the thief.

bloomin this ^
i hate perma stealth, it needs adressing i have an 80 thief and when i found out about this i was disgusted, seriously???

no just have a cooldown on the combofield and the problem is sorted, you should be able to stack like that.

You have to significantly nerf your damage to get the most out of stealthing.

docMed.7692:

Stealthing also gives you access to more damaging abilities Craig..

Yes, this is true. However, this attack is an opener. The closer for a d/x thief is heart seeker. Watch Yishis’ videos on youtube. Whenever he backstabs someone, he either says “I open on this [insert class name here]” or “I reopen on the [insert class name here].” This shows the same thought process: stealth to reset and reposition and keep stealthed until you have the advantage, the push. Stealth is also made up for by our low health and toughness (of which thief has the lowest of both of any class). And before you immediately try to shoot me down, try it first. You’ll probably be surprised at how much it helps. Also, getting the feel of when a thief will attack while stealthed and knowing how quickly he moves, and the like really helps you know where the thief is while he is in stealth. Notice the fact that backstabs have to land in the back? So maybe when you dodge, dodge backwards, so he ends up either in front of you for a much weaker backstab, or unstealths right in your LoS. Playing a thief REALLY REALLY helps you beat them. Don’t believe me? click this link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Warriors-Perspective-on-Thief/first#post2158899

Craig.2403:

This is why people complain. About the best way to counter a thief is to make him think he has the advantage, and when he pushes, you turn on him. Low on initiative because he thought he had the advantage, and with the element of surprise on your side, not his, he will be easy to take down. When you think of stealth in this sense (how most good thieves think of stealth), you end up finding it incredibly easy to beat thieves.

This is pretty much the only way I can kill a thief reliably outside of a duel while on my guardian. When fighting your everyday thief, pretending you’re distracted, scared, or afk and retaliating when he’s going for the kill is more often than not, a win. If he caught on before I could burst him down, it’s normally at the point where I should be able to catch his fleeing attempts.

I’m glad this mindset stealthy bursty classes promotes is wide spread since this will work more often than not. Of course smarter thieves abuse this, but you can’t win em all.

I run and stream my full zerk wvw thief quite often. I’m not quite sure what your point here is other than stealthing is a necessity for thieves and/or we only come out of stealth to strike at opportune times? I think this is rather obvious, whereas my point was simply tacking onto yours where one might also enter into stealth to get a stronger hit off. You only should be heartseeking sub 25%, otherwise keeping blinds up and/or cripples is much more valuable to ensure you stick to your enemy.

Imho it is the fact we can control the fight..that is what makes players cry.

A guardian with the right spec can do amazing things..zerg or another group shows up..game over.

A thief will still have a chance to get at least one opponent down and escape.

I would love to see a marauder style thief with traits to match..more evade and positional attacks. The closest I get is a GC build..and I still have to use stealth or I lose.

Good points guys..keep em coming.

@OP

Insightful, and I wish more people would understand this. Because it’s pretty much the reality of being on the other end of it.

Note: I still, even on my thief, do not prefer going solo in WVW, as I feel going solo in WVW is just not very useful compared to working cooperatively. (note, it is possible to work cooperatively while outside the proximity of others)

I agree with the OP. Having been playing as a thief since launch, I find stealth has saved my butt many times. As with any class, the way you play is dependent on how you gear up. If I want to use my stealth, I can boost my survivability. If I want damage I can boost my power. If I want maneuverability I boost my acrobatics. I can’t have them all, and I think many non-thieves see thieves this way. I cannot tell you how many times I have avoided a stealth stomp in PvP because I know the timing of it. Downed.. one, two, thr- shadow step and avoid the stomp. I’ve also avoided many battles because of stealth too. Most of the time I don’t care for fighting more than 1vX (in WvW) so I like using stealth to just do my own thing. Stealth is good yes. Thieves rely more on avoidance of damage rather than healing (that many other classes have good skills for this) so stealth is our vehicle to accomplish that.

Don’t complain that it is so overpowered, it’s not. It’s there to balance and compete with other classes (Mesmer and clones, warrior and damage, guardian and durability, elements lists and their aoe’s, etc..)

Why not give the thieves a little niche to make them feel special? Remove their stealth and you have a ranger with no pet = boring. Stealth is something they bring to the table

Currently I find every thief I’m fighting to get perma stealth through Black Powder>Leap finisher (normally HS). Fight pretty much goes Hide in Shadows>CnD>Shadow Refuge>Black powder+leap finisher. I think the amount of stealth abilities and length of stealth should not be available to full dps builds that don’t include Shadow Arts or Acrobatics which are the two survival trees, this means as a dps glass cannons thieves get the most survivability without having to trait for it at all.

Darksidhe.6740:

We are not hated for our damage so much as the fact we can mangage our abilities to control the fight.

I have other lvl80s that are ok to play..but in WvW give me my thief.

Just the sheer enjoyment of Steal>CnD> BackStab…insert other dmg..dropping a foe in the middle of a hostile supply camp & escaping is more rewarding than zerging on my other 80s.

But..steal must work right..no blade of grass to trip my *teleport up.
No revealed defuff..it’s been 5 seconds +…hmmm, why can’t I restealth. Dang..it still blew my cool downs on my skills..dodge>dodge>..hope for evades..

I’v had friends over at my house watching me do the “thief” thing.
The most common comment is about how finicky some of my skills can be.
The second is “Dude…they need to just AOE instead running around doing nuthin”

Within the next month they get a thief to 80..call me and say..“This is to much work, I’m gonna run my (insert) and run with the zerg.”

As a thief we don’t fight our enemies battles..we choose to be patient and strike at a time of our choosing even if it’s just do distract the zerg to give our guys time to deploy.

Players get mad if you give them the slip..understandably..even though they didn’t die ..no meat taste sweeter than roasted thief..except maybe messmer kabobs (imho).

If a stealth “fix” came into effect would Anet..buff another area or two of thief abilities.
ie:
One minute revealed..but we get a BackStab buff of huge damage or BackStab ANYTIME we are behind an enemy.

Or more teleports tied into attacks..to steal a trick of messmers your enemies also drop target..

Or true Permenant stealth..on till you attack..no “tricks or skill combos”..lazy mode stealth..man that would be nice.

The tears of QQs would be tasty as they eat crow.

Thieves are not the WvW gods you make us out to be, we are more like the devil feeding you lies to make you think we are.

But with a lil bit’o love by Anet to appease the tears of QQ’s …we could be.

im just wondering when ppl from anet actually notice that ppl playing thieves have comments like these. comment where they actually admit thief is op and they also laugh about it not only in game but also on gw2 forums.

Constantine.7812:

Darksidhe.6740:

stuff

im just wondering when ppl from anet actually notice that ppl playing thieves have comments like these. comment where they actually admit thief is op and they also laugh about it not only in game but also on gw2 forums.

I’m wondering when the people who are trying to nerf thieves further will understand the difference between “Invisibility” and “Invincibility”, comments where they show how little they know about the thief not only in game but on gw2 forums.

Constantine.7812:

Zacchary.6183:

Constantine.7812:

Darksidhe.6740:

stuff

im just wondering when ppl from anet actually notice that ppl playing thieves have comments like these. comment where they actually admit thief is op and they also laugh about it not only in game but also on gw2 forums.

I’m wondering when the people who are trying to nerf thieves further will understand the difference between “Invisibility” and “Invincibility”, comments where they show how little they know about the thief not only in game but on gw2 forums.

oh look another thief defending his op class. now thief pls go back to stealth mode so that nobody can see you ok? of course dont forget to backstab ppl and HURRY TO STEALTH AGAIN!!!!! HURRY HURRY

Oh look, another but_hurt player who won’t swallow their pride and actually learn how to fight thieves! When will you get the hint that the other thieves want you to know how to counter them whenever they throw great advice at you? Of course, don’t forget to completely ignore it and continue to cry for nerfs AND NOT BECOME A BETTER PLAYER!!!! HURRY HURRY!!!

Unfortunately for you, I don’t use stealth and I still kick other thieve’s kitten, stealth heavy or not. I guess I will keep telling you L2P until you get my point!

L2P

I’v been away from the thread…work.

I’v killed many players and not used stealth..even a guardian.
I out played them/him.

I have died to players who used sound tactics and timing..stealth or not.
I have used BP..some..for the blind..I am D/D atm or S/d.

You can not stand in one spot and fight a thief and expect to survive.

Again..lets talk balance to stay on track..what do you think.
If stealth is nerfd/fixed/neutered.(I swear my dog just looked at me funny..lol)
What would you propose to balance it.

Good points Totalpwnage, but some traits would need to be reworked.
What is the carrot after the stick.

Some professions can easily have it all…p/t/v and make a thief look sick doing it..and from range.
But those professions don’t get any where the QQ’s of nerf.

The single most OP’d skill in WvW imho is messmer portal…it is a battle changer.
But wait..messmer has group/zerg stealth.
Game changer.
Would the proposed stealth changes affect messmers..no.
I’ll deal with it by dodging like crazy at the right time I hope.

What would you do to Balance stealth..be fair in your assessment.
DPS removal needs dps returned somewhere, same as ecape utilities.
Those are the basics of the thief.

Bed calls..cya Sunday..barring work.

totalpwnage.6534:

Currently I find every thief I’m fighting to get perma stealth through Black Powder>Leap finisher (normally HS). Fight pretty much goes Hide in Shadows>CnD>Shadow Refuge>Black powder+leap finisher. I think the amount of stealth abilities and length of stealth should not be available to full dps builds that don’t include Shadow Arts or Acrobatics which are the two survival trees, this means as a dps glass cannons thieves get the most survivability without having to trait for it at all.

I posted on D/P about six months ago, before it became the rage. I viewed it at the time, and still do, as PvP with training wheels. The reason to play it is because your not good enough to land cloak and dagger in combat.

I personally think ANET doomed the ‘perception’ of the class by making stealth as important to a thief’s defense as it is, to much so. More defense in other areas and a greatly reduced access to stealth would have went a long way of making the thief less cheesy and more respected.

Stealth is what thieves are reliant upon for survivability. A full glass cannon necro or warrior/guard will have 20k health and the heavy classes will have 2.1k toughness vs a glass thief at 1.9k toughness and 11k health. So a warrior/guard will have more health more armor and still have, arguably, higher damage output then a thief has. If I drop my zerker armor and go PTV with Valkyrie jewels and change my traits to raise my vitality I’m still at a measly 17k health which is still less then some classes base health and my toughness is at 2.6k which still isn’t that high. Looking at it from my perspective stealth is the only way I have some survivability.

Stealth is completely different when being looked at from a WvW, PvE, and PvP point of view. In pve stealth is arguably useless and is only useful when I can get my group or myself past a trash mob in a dungeon. In pvp it is so fast paced to the point where you can only stealth so much to the point where you’re either aren’t capping or you’re not attacking and I find myself relying more on using evades and shadow step to get away rather then stealthing.

And then there is WvW where everyone has the misconception that every theif in the game is an unbeatable invincible escape artist that comes and goes into a Zerg as they please. This is complete malarkey. I have seen as many bad thieves as I have stars in the sky. It’s pitiful how many thieves I see that jut spam HS and hope for a kill. People see a few montages in YouTube of a thief doing well and immediately believe that is what every thief is like. News flash there are just as many videos for nearly every profession doing the same thing.

And I know I’m rambling but ill end my rant with this. People get mad at the fact that thieves can run away from fights in WvW if they are in danger. Uhhhhh yeah it’s a thief that’s what the creation of the class is based on it can run in confuse the group and run out but it comes at a huge toll to toughness and vitality, as a thief has lowest of both. Stealth is the thiefs little something that helps us survive each class has its own to use to its advantage and its meager considering there’s barely anything at all that a thief can do, other then venom share which isn’t that great on its own, to support its group compared to other professions.

Phew, sorry for the rant.

Why can’t there be good Thieves in here for a change.

The issues hasn’t changed from day one. Whether your invincible in stealth or just invisible it removes you from the target to the other player. AoE skills are nice but you never know if your just hitting air or a player. Access to stealth is cheap in fact so cheap that it makes thieves nigh impossible to kill in the right build. Thief mobility is also the highest in the game (not guessing the math is there). Burst is high but not the most insane there is given the stat trade off. Lets not forget evades the capability to spam skills etc etc.

I know to the ears (eyes in this case) of most thieves this is just whining, but fact is it’s not like anyone is posting blatant lies or over exaggerating or anything of that sort. Thief mechanics are over the top for 1v1 fights (and many 1 v X). Always have been and likely will continue to be. There is no risk. Any smart thief carries shadow step and refuge for the tough moments and is smart enough to stealth/evade/ or simply run when necessary.

Now the hard truth for stealth hater. Despite not being able to see the thief stealth by itself offers no mitigation other than the fact you cannot see the damage you are doing but if you are doing damage you will continue to do it. Thief has no innate access to protection and all mitigation comes by way of evades and stealth. In most cases non glass thieves can be tanky but with the exception of shadow step (utility no weapon) most other things can be countered to a degree.

In order to gain the defensive benefits from stealth you must stop attack (some fields are allowed from stealth but can be walked out of). During that time the thief if they are in dire straits has 2 options run or continue the fight. In many cases you can not out run the thief but at the same time his situation may be bad enough to force a retreat.

With the exception of DP (too a degree actually) most stealth heavy builds can be blown by exploiting the crutch that is stealth and initiative management. With the exception of venom signets steal CnD backstab one shot most thief burst can be brought to a halt by limiting there access to stealth. How do you do that? CnD has a cast the animation is obvious and you know its coming due to reveal being off. Dodge then and they blow imitative. Do it enough and the thief runs out and will high tail it using either shadow step and refuge or refuge alone.

If the thief has blind in stealth you have less options to killing their refuge move. If not use a launch in the middle and half the time you will knock them out (you can also use a pull externally). Other times if thy were low on health upon entrance spam the middle with aoe.

Now I may give advice but fact is thief is OP in WvW UP in PvE and so so at best in Spvp. WvW is currently one of the most if not the most popular game mode. Thieves being there hurts balance but not in a Zerg v Zerg way. In Zerg thief is actually pretty UP as getting to the front lines and bursting is a fools mission. In small scale its good, but what hurts most players is thief roaming and killing other roamers.

Fact is I have never understood Anet’s logic. They tied so much into stealth its ridiculous. Active combat stealth should have never made it into the game in the first place. Combat stealth by it’s very nature is a form of trolling. Yet it is here and here to stay. I would suggest if you hate stealth roll a thief and just use it. I have no sage advice like “Now you’ll understand how to counter it”. No you won’t. If I roam thief I don’t get countered I don’t give a kitten can’t stop me anyway if I am serious about not getting caught. Fact is you’ll just have all the tools to do what you wanted in the first place to roam or beat other thieves.

Whining about stealth isn’t going to change a thing so give it up. Thief stealth is not getting nerfed any time soon. Saying L2P isn’t going to change a thing so give it up. Telling people learn to play isn’t going to change the perception of the class anytime soon. Fact is only the most unskilled players demand to play thief to get it. There is no such thing as beating a good thief. They messed up/ over extended if you did. There is no such thing as being a good thief. You rely on spammable skills, stealth, mobility and/or evades as a crutch in most builds. The truly good players moved on from thief long ago. No one who’s good plays a class/build that has no challenge to it.

Sigh, despite all this thief actually needs buffs to condition specs as they are out paced and classed by most other classes. Range dps is also an issue.

TL;DR
Came out like a rant but whatever. Lets stop all this its been like 9 months now.

The change i’ve said 1 or 2 months ago:

Add a new dismissing mechanic in stealth.

How?

The first time you go in stealth by any mean you gain one stack of the “debuff”.
The debuff last 10 secs.
When you go stealth again you have half the time.
If you go again you have half of the half.
Every time you gain one stack of this debuff it refresh the old ones.

So as example:
Go stealth: 3 secs.
Go again: 1,5. secs
go again: 0,75 secs
Go again: 0,4 sec.
Go again: 0,4. sec
(it needs to have a limit)

Until when it’s not viable aside from using it to make your dps higher (using Backstab in a boss)

It would end the bullkitten of perma-stealth. What’s completely broken. While not hitting hard others playstyles of thiefs.

And for who defend Perma-stealth. It’s a broken mechanic because it’s fun for the guy using it. while it’s at the best boring to everyone else.

This explain WHY it’s a bad mechanic.

PS: Make Stealth a choice. Let the thiefs think “i should use that to begin the battle in a better position? To make my damage bigger? to burst ppl down? save it to a escape if needed?”
Not just “lol stealth, attack, lol stealth, attack, lol stealth, attack. lol stealth, realize will lose the combat, lol stealth, flee”.

I think permastealth out of battle would be reasonable, so long as the conditions for entering stealth are set. I always see fighting a thief as a time-limit battle: You either kill them quickly or end up dead or giving them a chance to run away. The thief is the profession that is supposed to keep players on their toes, ensuring they’re always on the lookout. They’re meant to excel in 1 Vs 1, dealing massive burst damage and being difficult to fight without proper tactics. That’s what I always believed was the difference between them and Warriors. Warriors can survive the hits from many and carry on, thieves are excellent at dealing with only one, being extremely careful as one blow could mean the end.

No damaging conditions present? Stealth.
No enemies attacking? Stealth.
No cooldown on stealth? Stealth.

The problem people have with stealth is that they hate a thief that can disappear multiple times during battle, and finally disappear for good if it doesn’t go their way. That, and the painful backstabbing…

kitten , even a backstab damage adjustment would be a good trade-off. Could reduce the damage so that it can never drop an enemy below 25% of their total health.

Honestly, I love fighting thieves, even in 1v1, even while not on my thief. Why? I love how much it makes you think. I see a thief coming and immediately I start thinking more. Thieves separate the good players from the bad. The bad ones will go through their rotation, not altering a thing, and rage when it didn’t all go their way, even though their rotation went as planned. The good player will know his skills, not a rotation, and when the thief moves to strike, know how and when to counter it. Stealth just adds another dimension. It makes you stay on your toes at all times, even running from point to point, lest you get surprised and killed before you realize what hit you. So what if a thief can run away? What’s it to you? 1 less loot bag? Suck up and realize you won’t win every fight by going through a rotation. The counterplay to stealth is anticipation and thinking, not standing there waiting for the thief to pop out of stealth. Think, “if I were the thief, where would I be headed, and how would I get there?” This makes combat with a thief interesting and dynamic. Maybe the reason people hate thieves is they make you think, as opposed to you doing the same thing every battle. I personally love that, and look forward to fighting a good thief to see how they react to fighting a good player. I hate facing bad thieves: I faceroll them. I love fighting good thieves because they create a unique challenge that makes the game interesting to me.

Constantine.7812:

Zacchary.6183:

Constantine.7812:

Zacchary.6183:

Constantine.7812:

Darksidhe.6740:

stuff

im just wondering when ppl from anet actually notice that ppl playing thieves have comments like these. comment where they actually admit thief is op and they also laugh about it not only in game but also on gw2 forums.

I’m wondering when the people who are trying to nerf thieves further will understand the difference between “Invisibility” and “Invincibility”, comments where they show how little they know about the thief not only in game but on gw2 forums.

oh look another thief defending his op class. now thief pls go back to stealth mode so that nobody can see you ok? of course dont forget to backstab ppl and HURRY TO STEALTH AGAIN!!!!! HURRY HURRY

Oh look, another but_hurt player who won’t swallow their pride and actually learn how to fight thieves! When will you get the hint that the other thieves want you to know how to counter them whenever they throw great advice at you? Of course, don’t forget to completely ignore it and continue to cry for nerfs AND NOT BECOME A BETTER PLAYER!!!! HURRY HURRY!!!

---

Unfortunately for you, I don’t use stealth and I still kick other thieve’s kitten, stealth heavy or not. I guess I will keep telling you L2P until you get my point!

L2P

low iq boy on gw2 forums is low iq boy on gw2 forums. your iq is so low, that you actually have to copy my posts. no further comments for low iq boy.

Classic irony coming from a scrub who keeps getting killed by thieves. Go figure.

EDIT:
PROTIP: Its called an idiot.

Let us keep the thread civil.

No player wants to be thought of as a “Bad Player”.

Some players can’t seem to get the hang of fighting a thief but can win numerous duels against other professions.

Then we have the guys who think that all fights MUST win with the thief dead at thier feet while they /Laugh.
These guys will cry even if the thief is visable and just teleports away.

Stealth can be a blamed for the dingo’s eating my baby..lol.

GW2 thieves are slip in, rip hearts out and vanish type of profession.

If a group of game designers came up with classes:
Warrior=Damge & Tough Guy
Mage= Range Spell Caster, Healer & Party Buffer
Thief= DPS..Daggers..check..Stealth..check..

Thieves and stealth go together very well..but it is hard to balance.
Maybe we should have to spec every class for speed, stealth, healing or other OP’d ability.

Again I say..If we had another skill allowing us to control the fight..Nerf ?? it’s OP’d.
Random skills teleporting us to the rear of our enemy, some to make you drop us as target( think Messmer ), would not make the players who could still not kill you happy.

If you keyboard turn, don’t dodge, don’t cleanse or use your heals wisely, I will cripple,weaken, bleed, dodge, steal from you and auto attack you to death.
I will NOT /laugh…I just hope they get to be better at using the abilities of thier profession.

At this time we are tied to stealth to get the most out of our profession.
If it changed someway there would have to be a balance of damage and survivability added back.

Some good points have been brought up..keep’em coming guys.

docMed.7692:

RedCobra.7693:

Yngvi.3452:

being invisible is over the top OP. It has no use in the game and its only use is to do cowardly acts. We have enough cowards in the real world. I would delete invisibility and give them something else. That or drop their hps down to 25 make going into invisible mode damaging to the thief.

bloomin this ^
i hate perma stealth, it needs adressing i have an 80 thief and when i found out about this i was disgusted, seriously???

no just have a cooldown on the combofield and the problem is sorted, you should be able to stack like that.

You have to significantly nerf your damage to get the most out of stealthing.

no buddy sorry you dont, im a backstab thief and am using d/p now because the perma stealth allows me to trade in refuge