Guild Wars 2

(This isn’t just an issue for thieves, but since stealth is one of their main mechanics, I decided to post it here)

I don’t know if this is intended or not, but it should be changed:

Sometimes, when you stealth, the enemy can still continue hitting you with single target abilities.
I’ve mainly noticed it with channeled attacks, like the Ranger’s longbow rapid fire skill, but it also happens with others, like the Thief’s Heartseeker.
It also happens with NPC opponents, as well as players.

Not that I’m not talking about single target abilities randomly hitting you, but the projectiles being aimed at you, even as you move around in stealth.

If it’s intended, I see no logic behind it. When you’re going into stealth, all single target abilities aimed at you should be stopped (or at least stop being aimed at you when you move).

I think this happens with any channeled ability. I think there have been many topics on this and has happened since before launch of the game so I assume Anet thinks that it’s working as intended.

It’s been like this since day 1 and I think it’s intended to balance out stealth. A lot of the inexperienced players say there’s no counter to stealth (directly, at least), but popping a rapid fire or similar skill that lasts almost the full duration of stealth is a fairly good counterplay strategy when the thief gets low on health.

Yes it is pretty much entirely working as intended. An instant skill does the damage immediately and that is usually much better than a channeled skill that takes a long time to deal damage, can be interrupted, prevents the user doing other stuff, and sometimes stops the user from moving. The channeling user still needs to have you targeted when the skill starts, just like a user of an instant skill. Don’t counter a channeled skill with stealth, blind, aegis, etc, just use an interrupt.

The channeling skills look strange when the user turns to follow a stealth target. My only complaint is that this makes it difficult to land a rear attack from stealth on a channeller.

Well… Being Hit by 3 heartseeker while you are already 1 sec in stealth is Not cool.
Happened to me 2days ago. I was Low on endurance Hit cnd while opponent started hs Spam. First hs ok, it has a casttime, second hs maybe luck, i changed direction and got Hit by the third hs. It was like hs was tracking me. I guess Server lag and the game didnt recognize i was stealthed. Didnt die from it cuz over 50%hp but i felt being cheated :|

Ah yes, a ranger’s friendly Fire And Forget skill. Rapid Fire. Yes, it does track the path of a cloaked enemy. However, the skill has to be activated before a thief cloaks, or it won’t be locked on target. In fact it’s the only way I can track an enemy. A lot of other player’s don’t notice how our ranger arrows track the cloaked target. However…there are some that notice the tracking and head on that way.

Oh sure. Cloak, backstab us poor ranger’s while nearly perma-stealthed everything is kosher, but when it comes to a fire and forget from a ranger your going, “That ain’t right!”

Our arrows are stealth seeking masterpieces and shall not be touched! So sayeth the kittah! So sayeth the flock!

I think it works out just fine. Afterall it’s diffcult for ranged weapons to attack stealthed targets as it is, ranged attacks can also be LoS’ed.

With experienced players; Thief vs. Ranger, I believe any of the both can win, it’s all about who uses their class, surroundings and experience and does least mistakes who wins.

Inexperienced rangers will however have huge problems against thieves.

Looks like you guys didn’t read the entire post:
Not only channeled skills, but also instant single-target skills are aimed at you while in stealth.
This happens even if the attack starts after you enter stealth.

Here’s what just happened just now: I was playing WvW with my mesmer and I ran into a group of enemies, so I started channeling my Mass Invisibility to get away. Understandably, while channeling it, I got hit by a few attacks and got really low on HP.
When the channeling finished, I entered stealth and immediately so I can avoid any incoming targeted attacks.
After the two dodges, I got hit by a ranged auto-attack from a Ranger (or warrior, I didn’t notice, really) and got downed.

To be honest, this happens a lot more on my mesmer than on my thief for some reason.

Cloaked in Shadow maybe? Might make that attack miss, enough at least to make a difference in how you experience it.

Axelwarrior.9084:

After the two dodges, I got hit by a ranged auto-attack from a Ranger (or warrior, I didn’t notice, really) and got downed.

You don’t need to be targeted for a ranged autoatack to hit you. If you’re in the line of sight of the projectile, you’ll still get hit. Similarly for heartseeker. This is why everyone says to change the running direction after entering stealth.

Op even single targets skill/spells are channelled as well so there is no reason for them not to hit you while you are in stealth. Its one of the ways to combat a thief it working as intended. It ijust annoying when players complain that there is no way to combat thief.

mango.9267:

Axelwarrior.9084:

After the two dodges, I got hit by a ranged auto-attack from a Ranger (or warrior, I didn’t notice, really) and got downed.

You don’t need to be targeted for a ranged autoatack to hit you. If you’re in the line of sight of the projectile, you’ll still get hit. Similarly for heartseeker. This is why everyone says to change the running direction after entering stealth.

I did change the direction. I even fell down a hill. There’s no way she could have shot the attack at that direction before I was stealthed.

vincecontix.1264:

Op even single targets skill/spells are channelled as well so there is no reason for them not to hit you while you are in stealth. Its one of the ways to combat a thief it working as intended. It ijust annoying when players complain that there is no way to combat thief.

Even if they are channeled, she didn’t start the attack until 1 or 2 seconds after I went into stealth. Therefore, I was stealthed before she started channeling the attack, so it shouldn’t have been aimed at me.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Even if they are channeled, she didn’t start the attack until 1 or 2 seconds after I went into stealth. Therefore, I was stealthed before she started channeling the attack, so it shouldn’t have been aimed at me.

I have posted about this before.. the fact that the channel attack can still lock on AFTER you are stealthed is my main gripe with this.. It’s BS, and needs to go away. Especially love how they can “track” you in full duration of stealth as they will turn to face you as long as the skill is still firing off.

I do not consider it working as intended at all.. I consider it a bug that will never be fixed because they observed and decided it is a positive thing. That or it’s too hard to figure out how to fix without screwing the rest of the game. Just so happens we get the shortest end of the stick… (sigh) If anything they need to get rid of the tracking.. Have the skill still fire, but drop the illogical unrealistic magic “aimbot” you all of a sudden get allowing you to trace an invisible person.

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Even if they are channeled, she didn’t start the attack until 1 or 2 seconds after I went into stealth. Therefore, I was stealthed before she started channeling the attack, so it shouldn’t have been aimed at me.

I have posted about this before.. the fact that the channel attack can still lock on AFTER you are stealthed is my main gripe with this.. It’s BS, and needs to go away. Especially love how they can “track” you in full duration of stealth as they will turn to face you as long as the skill is still firing off.

Are you sure it’s not a lag issue? Lag can result in weird things like this, and if you consistently play with high latency, stuff like this can happen consistently.

This is because when you use a skill, like to stealth, your client immediately registers that you stealthed, before it actually happens on the server. This leaves a small window where you see yourself as stealthed, but really aren’t according to the server.

This happens all the time and most people just never notice it, because generally speaking any delay under 100ms is not noticable to most people. If latency starts to go over 100ms, then it starts to be noticable.

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Domey.9804:

Well… Being Hit by 3 heartseeker while you are already 1 sec in stealth is Not cool.
Happened to me 2days ago. I was Low on endurance Hit cnd while opponent started hs Spam. First hs ok, it has a casttime, second hs maybe luck, i changed direction and got Hit by the third hs. It was like hs was tracking me. I guess Server lag and the game didnt recognize i was stealthed. Didnt die from it cuz over 50%hp but i felt being cheated :|

Thief weapon skills queue up if you hit the button/key multiple times, because they don’t have cooldowns. If you tap HS 3 times rapidly before an opponent stealths, it will add 3 to the queue with the opponent as a target, and will leap towards that target despite him being stealthed.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

i died tons of times because of its.. so frustrating.. channelled skill > stealth. true story.
i m gonna roll a warrior 10 sec invulnerability > channeled skill> stealth.

anyway, it s just sad that once u are in stealth, they can hit u.
I don t know if it s a bug or just a mechanic, but… Ouch, it s hurt

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

Right. When it happens on thieves it’s intended but for mesmers it’s a bug.
Go make some rage threads about thieves kicking your a** an get out of the serious topics, please.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

Right. When it happens on thieves it’s intended but for mesmers it’s a bug.
Go make some rage threads about thieves kicking your a** an get out of the serious topics, please.

Yup, exactly what I said!
See when a thief is able to remain in stealth for a decent amount of time and possibly chain stealths togather, it’s called perma stealth and needs a nerf… When a thief can reset fights, it’s unfair and needs a nerf… When a thief is able to do condition damage while in stealth (choking gas, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3225311) it’s OP and requires a nerf… (even though mesmers have clones… that well.. do damage while the mesmer himself is stealthed).

So, clearly… when a thief is about to enter stealth or after and takes damage, that’s intended because we’re OP… However when it happens to a mesmer it’s clearly a bug…

This post could have had more success in the mesmer’s forum or in the bug forum to be honest… It might have even been fixed for you guys.

You know, I get the impression that you two are pretty much in line with each other but expression styles got in the way.

frans.8092:

You know, I get the impression that you two are pretty much in line with each other but expression styles got in the way.

;) I know… I didn’t add the “(sarcasm)” bit… Which resulted in slight trolling :P

It’s impressive though, a non-thief (or maybe it is his main, he said he plays mesmer), has come to this forums and asked for a fix for stealth (not the concept, but that one particular bug/annoyance…). True that it’s not only for thieves… but… it still effects thieves in a positive way…
You don’t see that often.

Though I did mean what I said about it having more success in other forums…

and this is y that don’t need to nerf stealth there is a counter to it

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

Right. When it happens on thieves it’s intended but for mesmers it’s a bug.
Go make some rage threads about thieves kicking your a** an get out of the serious topics, please.

Yup, exactly what I said!
See when a thief is able to remain in stealth for a decent amount of time and possibly chain stealths togather, it’s called perma stealth and needs a nerf… When a thief can reset fights, it’s unfair and needs a nerf… When a thief is able to do condition damage while in stealth (choking gas, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3225311) it’s OP and requires a nerf… (even though mesmers have clones… that well.. do damage while the mesmer himself is stealthed).

So, clearly… when a thief is about to enter stealth or after and takes damage, that’s intended because we’re OP… However when it happens to a mesmer it’s clearly a bug…

This post could have had more success in the mesmer’s forum or in the bug forum to be honest… It might have even been fixed for you guys.

The only way for a thief to “perma-stealth” is to keep using Cloak and Dagger (there might be another way that requires a lot more effort and certain utility skills, but I wouldn’t know).
That by itself is already balanced, as it requires concentration. I bet you didn’t ever consider it, but successfully using Cloak and Dagger many times in a row is a difficult task, especially when the enemy is smart. If they just sit there and wait like morons you’ll obviously hit them, but that rarely happens. Good players can counter constant Cloak and Dagger spam.

While in stealth, the only way for a thief to deal damage is using certain skills that don’t deal direct damage, like Choking gas as you mentioned. However, using Choking Gas, which by itself is a very bad skill for PvP, means you need to use your initiative, meaning you can’t maintain “perma-stealth”.
Also, using choking gas gives the enemy a certain perspective of your current position, making it easier for them to hit you with AoE while in stealth.
It’s generally just annoying for your opponents rather than dangerous.
So, clearly, you’re just using that as an excuse to nerf thieves. I highly doubt a thief managed to kill you or at the very least gain a significant advantage on your fight by using that technique. And even if that happened, it’s your fault. L2p.

Now, back to the original issue. The bug is about stealth. Stealth is a game mechanic, not a skill of a specific class. If there’s a problem with it, all classes using it are affected.
You can’t just say “Oh, they made stealth weaker for thieves because they beat me all the time.”

Good job quoting my sarcasm and then agreeing with it, by the way.

EDIT: I see you also mentioned that thieves can “reset fights” with stealth. What?
The only way to reset a fight is to get far away from your opponent.
Stealth might help with that, but it’s not something that only thieves can do.
More invalid excuses to nerf thieves please?

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

Right. When it happens on thieves it’s intended but for mesmers it’s a bug.
Go make some rage threads about thieves kicking your a** an get out of the serious topics, please.

Yup, exactly what I said!
See when a thief is able to remain in stealth for a decent amount of time and possibly chain stealths togather, it’s called perma stealth and needs a nerf… When a thief can reset fights, it’s unfair and needs a nerf… When a thief is able to do condition damage while in stealth (choking gas, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3225311) it’s OP and requires a nerf… (even though mesmers have clones… that well.. do damage while the mesmer himself is stealthed).

So, clearly… when a thief is about to enter stealth or after and takes damage, that’s intended because we’re OP… However when it happens to a mesmer it’s clearly a bug…

This post could have had more success in the mesmer’s forum or in the bug forum to be honest… It might have even been fixed for you guys.

….
Good job quoting my sarcasm and then agreeing with it, by the way.
…

WOAH… at which point were you sarcastic? All my posts aside from the one addressing frans and this one where sarcastic… you might have missed it:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

You know, I get the impression that you two are pretty much in line with each other but expression styles got in the way.

;) I know… I didn’t add the “(sarcasm)” bit… Which resulted in slight trolling :P

It’s impressive though, a non-thief (or maybe it is his main, he said he plays mesmer), has come to this forums and asked for a fix for stealth (not the concept, but that one particular bug/annoyance…). True that it’s not only for thieves… but… it still effects thieves in a positive way…
You don’t see that often.

Though I did mean what I said about it having more success in other forums…

All the excuses that I’ve come up with, actually I didn’t come up with them, I repeated the QQ’ing I’ve seen about the thief.

Not sure what you’re main is, but it’s impressive that someone from another class came to the thief forums and is defending it… you really dont see that often.

Are you serious? As if Arenanet had programmed such a mechanic xD
It’s a not-intended mechanic they obviously can’t fix – just like the one that gives Warriors best hp, best armor, more or lest best dps

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?

Swimfan.8014:

Are you serious? As if Arenanet had programmed such a mechanic xD
It’s a not-intended mechanic they obviously can’t fix – just like the one that gives Warriors best hp, best armor, more or lest best dps

The problem I’m describing is obviously a bug, I’m not sure what mechanic you’re referring to.
I am very curious as to how a Warrior hater ended up in this thread.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?
…

Yup I wasn’t, I was being sarcastic…

Now you guys are just unintentionally trolling eachother.. XD

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?
…

Yup I wasn’t, I was being sarcastic…

You’re bad at being sarcastic

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?
…

Yup I wasn’t, I was being sarcastic…

You’re bad at being sarcastic

:\ It’s not exactly me… You can’t pick up the tone of voice on the internet…. plus I forgot the (sarcasm) brackets…