Guild Wars 2

I love staff. It’s so cool and the animations really show what thief should have been a long time ago. Now, I never liked d/p to begin with, but I do agree that it is the stronges weaponset thief had. yes, HAD. Now it’s time for some kungkittenaction, whirl around like a mofo, leap around like a frog and look cool bam bam dead, next one! BAM.

I’ve had way too much fun with the daredevil, so I want all the others who are disappointed with thief to cheer up a bit and get out of d/p and stealth. It’s worth it.

They did buff thief, they just gave it a different role which a lot of conservative players won’t see immediately. It’s not a coincidence that the superior rune of the daredevil has toughness in it =) I for one love the added sustain.

You could as well say: Play another class if you want to win – stop sticking to the things you love.
Maybe staff isn’t for everyone.

So far I’m having an easier time going through HoT on every other class after first going through it with Thief. Even though my thief has the best gear.

I’m quite positive… that Thief sucks.

No wonder that devs are not paying attention to thief forum when everybody is crying and calling ideas of others by trashtalk. OP is right, devs gives thief some exact abilities and ppl are just crying here that they want to play different style than the thief is set for.
Why are you playing thief if you dont like it? You are wasting time, kids.

Zdenny.2704:

OP is right, devs gives thief some exact abilities and ppl are just crying here that they want to play different style than the thief is set for.

That is incorrect. The devs REMOVED things from the Thief, and they are SELLING things in the form of Daredevil. They haven’t GIVEN the Thief or its players anything.

However, if you or the OP would be willing to gift HoT to the rest of the Thief community, then maybe the “whining” will lessen.

I don’t want HoT, I want my thief back.

Wait so in summary this thread is trying to encourage us to buy HoT and keep quiet? I don’t see what’s in there that makes up for CiS at GM level if you do tell me.

Zdenny.2704:

No wonder that devs are not paying attention to thief forum when everybody is crying and calling ideas of others by trashtalk. OP is right, devs gives thief some exact abilities and ppl are just crying here that they want to play different style than the thief is set for.
Why are you playing thief if you dont like it? You are wasting time, kids.

Um they nerfed and took away so many things from thief that you can hardly call it a class anymore. Thief players want thief back as a class (as it used to be) and not dwell as some semi-independent replaceable pet. Also, calling other posters kids……… oh man.

MrKahwk.9524:

I love staff. It’s so cool and the animations really show what thief should have been a long time ago. Now, I never liked d/p to begin with, but I do agree that it is the stronges weaponset thief had. yes, HAD. Now it’s time for some kungkittenaction, whirl around like a mofo, leap around like a frog and look cool bam bam dead, next one! BAM.

I’ve had way too much fun with the daredevil, so I want all the others who are disappointed with thief to cheer up a bit and get out of d/p and stealth. It’s worth it.

They did buff thief, they just gave it a different role which a lot of conservative players won’t see immediately. It’s not a coincidence that the superior rune of the daredevil has toughness in it =) I for one love the added sustain.

Play vanilla s/d for awhile and get back to me.

I’ll buy HoT when Anet addresses the long-standing issues. Don’t need no staff.

Azure Prower.8701:

So far I’m having an easier time going through HoT on every other class after first going through it with Thief. Even though my thief has the best gear.

I’m quite positive… that Thief sucks.

That’s pretty common on any toon. My thief was my 4th toon through after ranger, guardian, necro…and I thought it was really easy on Thief using Daredevil. All of the dodges make you kind of invincible in PvE.

drgast.1469:

Azure Prower.8701:

So far I’m having an easier time going through HoT on every other class after first going through it with Thief. Even though my thief has the best gear.

I’m quite positive… that Thief sucks.

That’s pretty common on any toon. My thief was my 4th toon through after ranger, guardian, necro…and I thought it was really easy on Thief using Daredevil. All of the dodges make you kind of invincible in PvE.

the only thing that makes you invincible is pistol whip spam + envigorating precision

assassin.7895:

drgast.1469:

Azure Prower.8701:

So far I’m having an easier time going through HoT on every other class after first going through it with Thief. Even though my thief has the best gear.

I’m quite positive… that Thief sucks.

That’s pretty common on any toon. My thief was my 4th toon through after ranger, guardian, necro…and I thought it was really easy on Thief using Daredevil. All of the dodges make you kind of invincible in PvE.

the only thing that makes you invincible is pistol whip spam + envigorating precision

Thats because you still havent started to see the new dodges as part of your rotacion, instead of just survival tools. I soloed most of the hot hp champs (except some very obvious ones like the guano bat al baltha avatar) with my soldier DD, my little asura thief feels like Master Shifu with his Bo staff

Man, people need to stop whining about others whining. You’re not exactly helping.

The toughness is a throwaway stat… getting one shotted MUCH more than before HOT. Daredevil is ok in pve, terrible in wvw, and seriously…why even try in PVP? The animations are nice yes.. but by the time the animation is done your target is on the other side of the map… so what’s our new role? Jester?

okay, here’s my perspective on it:

I switched from a Dagger Dagger Carrion theif to a Staff daredevil running soldiers weapons and ’zerker trinkets (which have me leaning more towards power than defense)

I’m doing okay damage, and I don’t die instantly. but I do still die. a lot. the evades are nice, but don’t last forever, and once they’re gone, so am I. staff’s fun conceptually, but I’ve never used the 3 or 4 skills unless my finger slips. 2 and 5 are the best damage, 5 for groups or stationary targets, 2 for damage mitigation and dps. the auto-attack is for when I’m out of initiative.

I can take the occasional punch, which is nice. however, I’m still getting completely destroyed by AoEs, which have always been a pain as theif because stealth really doesn’t help. “I wonder where that thief went? doesn’t matter, I’ll just hit everywhere!”

I find the design of daredevil problematic, as it makes dodge rolls part of the class in a way that they clearly weren’t prepared for – the Boon Fumbler instability in higher level fractals is a perfect example of this: obviously designed around dodge rolls being a secondary defense used equally by all classes. now however, I’m left either buffless or defenseless in 30 levels of fractals in a way no other class is.

I also took some time to play my warrior – thief’s my main and I’ve not completed as much story, map or otherwise, on my alts.

my warrior’s running full soldiers. no precision, no ferocity, full exotic where my thief’s ascended.

I do as much if not more damage, and am waaaaaaaay tankier. AoEs don’t bother me. if I can’t tank them, I’ll pop endure pain or defiant stance. I’m doing a ton of damage with my greatsword, despite a pretty defensive build, and when things are too tough, I just run off and kite with rifle – a half decent 1200 range weapon.

on top of this, I bring a whole bunch of stuff to a group. tons of buffs, phalanx strength, empower allies, banners. it just feels like I do more damage, take less damage, and bring more to a group – all while using far less effort. and that’s a pretty depressing feeling.

so theif’s not at the worst it’s ever been overall, but by comparison, it sure doesn’t feel like it’s in a great place…

Gray.9041:

so theif’s not at the worst it’s ever been overall, but by comparison, it sure doesn’t feel like it’s in a great place…

When was thief worse than now?

Edit: Or do you mean with HoT thief is better than how it’s been from June to HoT?

I have used Staff plenty, and although I want to like it, it’s not very good. Everything it does can be done better by another weapon. You can arguably extend that assessment to just about everything else with the Thief profession right now.

Even if people get a little too negative sometimes, they have legitimate reasons to feel frustrated about the state of the profession. Telling people to “stop whining” is actually even less constructive than the negativity it’s in response to.

Jana.6831:

Gray.9041:

so theif’s not at the worst it’s ever been overall, but by comparison, it sure doesn’t feel like it’s in a great place…

When was thief worse than now?

Edit: Or do you mean with HoT thief is better than how it’s been from June to HoT?

more or less. I mean, we’ve had a few slight buffs to P/P and stuff.

MrKahwk.9524:

It’s not a coincidence that the superior rune of the daredevil has toughness in it =) I for one love the added sustain.

Delusion.

It has 100 toughness.

I mean-

Yeah! I agree!

All the thieves complaining need to pay for the expansion and l2p!

Gray.9041:

more or less. I mean, we’ve had a few slight buffs to P/P and stuff.

If you’re talking about P/P, then yeah – a P/P thief has been worse before – thief as a class hasn’t been though

Jana.6831:

Gray.9041:

more or less. I mean, we’ve had a few slight buffs to P/P and stuff.

If you’re talking about P/P, then yeah – a P/P thief has been worse before – thief as a class hasn’t been though

fair enough. I generally try to avoid making absolute statements though. just in case.

Gray.9041:

fair enough. I generally try to avoid making absolute statements though. just in case.

Umm.. didn’t you make an absolute statement by claiming that thief has been worse in the past?

Jana.6831:

Gray.9041:

fair enough. I generally try to avoid making absolute statements though. just in case.

Umm.. didn’t you make an absolute statement by claiming that thief has been worse in the past?

hmm. you’re right.

I should’ve said I think this is the worst thief’s ever been. – gets my point across while still leaving room to accept if I’m wrong.

Yes thief is at the worst it has ever been.
Daredevil might bring some survivablity back, but vanilla thief, especially not D/P, is a joke. I should’ve been more interested in other classes to know whether or not all their traits were merged into a few or if there too stuff got deleted.

Jana.6831:

Yes thief is at the worst it has ever been.
Daredevil might bring some survivablity back, but vanilla thief, especially not D/P, is a joke. I should’ve been more interested in other classes to know whether or not all their traits were merged into a few or if there too stuff got deleted.

I know that while we got our range extension on pistols removed, other classes got equivalent traits made baseline. for example, ranger LB is now 1500 all the time.

D/D, Shortbow, P/P, S/D have all seen a decline in capability. The trait line changes a year ago gutted a huge portion of thief capability. DareDevil while fun to play is one of the least effective elites as far as combat effectiveness. Call it whining if you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that ANet nerfed this class so hard that it cannot even be considered a decent dueling class which was its original design premise.

Those left playing the thief are mostly +1 with fast travel and generally dislike the play style of other classes so they stay in this class.

Straegen.2938:

D/D, Shortbow, P/P, S/D have all seen a decline in capability. The trait line changes a year ago gutted a huge portion of thief capability. DareDevil while fun to play is one of the least effective elites as far as combat effectiveness. Call it whining if you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that ANet nerfed this class so hard that it cannot even be considered a decent dueling class which was its original design premise.

Those left playing the thief are mostly +1 with fast travel and generally dislike the play style of other classes so they stay in this class.

Actually I’d say P/P is in the best it’s ever been thanks to DD, sans ricochet of course. And shortbow I believe hasn’t really been affected, though ironic how one of the nerfs for it was giving one of its skills initial damage. Of all of those Id say D/D has, by far, the biggest empire of dirt of them all. Nothing has been done to bring it back from the depths and quite frankly, unless the new elite spec harnesses and masters the sheer power of stealth, I don’t think my beloved D/D is coming back

Dash+steal cd+ initiative signet cd+ shadowstep+scorpion Wire. I played D/D and always landed, granted it was gimmicky. But I skirmished with the best of em. Got bored, played p/p. I missed my guns. I feel like Jinx from League of Legends cinematic trailer- shoot everything really fast =D. Shoot ALL the things =D Totally random.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

MrKahwk.9524:

It’s not a coincidence that the superior rune of the daredevil has toughness in it =) I for one love the added sustain.

Delusion.

It has 100 toughness.

I mean-

Yeah! I agree!

All the thieves complaining need to pay for the expansion and l2p!

The added toughness is a joke. Do an experiment, have a dh drop their traps… step in without any armor on… try again with full toughness. Either way you’re still gonna go down.

Gray.9041:

okay, here’s my perspective on it:

I switched from a Dagger Dagger Carrion theif to a Staff daredevil running soldiers weapons and ’zerker trinkets (which have me leaning more towards power than defense)

I’m doing okay damage, and I don’t die instantly. but I do still die. a lot. the evades are nice, but don’t last forever, and once they’re gone, so am I. staff’s fun conceptually, but I’ve never used the 3 or 4 skills unless my finger slips. 2 and 5 are the best damage, 5 for groups or stationary targets, 2 for damage mitigation and dps. the auto-attack is for when I’m out of initiative.

I can take the occasional punch, which is nice. however, I’m still getting completely destroyed by AoEs, which have always been a pain as theif because stealth really doesn’t help. “I wonder where that thief went? doesn’t matter, I’ll just hit everywhere!”

I find the design of daredevil problematic, as it makes dodge rolls part of the class in a way that they clearly weren’t prepared for – the Boon Fumbler instability in higher level fractals is a perfect example of this: obviously designed around dodge rolls being a secondary defense used equally by all classes. now however, I’m left either buffless or defenseless in 30 levels of fractals in a way no other class is.

I also took some time to play my warrior – thief’s my main and I’ve not completed as much story, map or otherwise, on my alts.

my warrior’s running full soldiers. no precision, no ferocity, full exotic where my thief’s ascended.

I do as much if not more damage, and am waaaaaaaay tankier. AoEs don’t bother me. if I can’t tank them, I’ll pop endure pain or defiant stance. I’m doing a ton of damage with my greatsword, despite a pretty defensive build, and when things are too tough, I just run off and kite with rifle – a half decent 1200 range weapon.

on top of this, I bring a whole bunch of stuff to a group. tons of buffs, phalanx strength, empower allies, banners. it just feels like I do more damage, take less damage, and bring more to a group – all while using far less effort. and that’s a pretty depressing feeling.

so theif’s not at the worst it’s ever been overall, but by comparison, it sure doesn’t feel like it’s in a great place…

I just had a similar experience with my old condi ranger.

I’ve been playing nothing but vanilla S/D thief for several months now, really trying to be as good as I can with it in all game modes (PvE, WvW, sPvP). Obviously it is an uphill battle but I was getting to the point where I could stay alive long enough to deal decent damage.

The other night I broke out my old short bow condi ranger for the first time in ages. Went into sPvP and it felt like easy mode. Lots of AOE, great survivability, fighting off two enemy players at a time. I was making mistakes and still getting by. Thieves were helpless against me. This is a vanilla condi ranger, since I have not purchased HoT (and probably never will).

My ranger build is IN NO WAY meta I assure you. I run with two devourer pets for Christ’s sake.

In the last update (when the trait system was significantly revised, prior to HoT), seems like every class got stronger by doing nothing. Certainly ranger did. Not so much thief.

Anyway I still like my S/D thief because the play style is so much fun, but I’m not delusional. I can pick up an old, gimmicky ranger build that I haven’t played in months and be more effective with it, even though I’ve been practicing like crazy on nothing but my thief for months.

So much for “get gud.”

On the bright side, negligence breeds comedy. Scorp wire is mad bugged. =) Meant to post earlier, but life got in the way. Pulled shenanigans in Stronghold where I’d pull a guy from across the mid point supply circle, then he’d get launched by the end animation straight in the air. Oh, impractical hilarity…. I love thee. Hoping to repeat this later, but it happened 3 times in one match.

All Daredevil did was sharpen the few dull edges the profession has left. Thief is still, at its core, an overly squishy profession: when the dodges and other gimmicks run out, you DIE. Without a certain level of passive durability through HP pool and traits, build diversity is severely limited. This is the albatross dragging the profession down.

Honestly, Thief needs a thorough rework (that it surely will not receive). Some smaller scale buffs would be a good start…