Swapping S/d and S/p (3) skill

Swapping S/d and S/p (3) skill

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Posted by: epoc.7941

epoc.7941

In my opinion thieves are in an okay spot. I have lots of fun playing D/p staff some people are playing d/d now and shortbow has always been a thing. But sadly two weapon sets that I used to love just don’t seem as good right now.

Sword dagger has seen quite a few nerfs one being sword 2’s cast time and s/d 3 being separated into two attacks. The latter just made the weaponset (in my opinion) abysmal.
Sure everyone’s like omg look at all the evades but the best thing about this skill was the unblockable boon strip. Sounds op i know but it’s not considering the amount of boons and blocks classes pump out nowadays it’s not. Engis, mesmers, revs, guards in abundance, and warriors all block and have access to lots of boons being able to get thru that and at the same time debuff your opponent was great. Especially in a class that doesn’t really give itself boons. But now u rarely can do this bc its impossible to land that first hit. I believe that one of two things can be done the first being allowing the second skill to proc even if the first is blocked ooooor just changing it back to how it used to be altogether separating them into two skills…which kind of goes nicey with the chaining skills theme that came with daredevil.

On the other hand pistol whip with Sword Pistol does great damage but is slow and clunky. I think this skill should get he S/d 3 treatment and separate the pistol whip and evading blurred frenzy attacks. This allows for a better chance or landing it and more options to use it defensively too. Like to cc someone stomping or ressing or to evade a big attack or using the stun then using sword 2 to immobilize and then the evading attack to try to secure the damage. It just gives you options that you don’t have with either set in their current form.

Please make this change it would be fun to see a lot more diversity in matches other than d/p and staff thieves everywhere. This won’t make thieves op but will def shake things up a bit and allow for more fun.

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Posted by: Saku Joe.2857

Saku Joe.2857

Not to mention the sword AA dps still inferior to dagger (before you say its wrong, go and try with same attack power on a non-critable dummy), and less interesting for a pressure set (weakness and crip 2s VS poison 7s and 10 endurance).
Sword needs a real buff. All i ask is a smart buff not sth making the set OP or exeedingly accessible..

Congratz Anet cunts, u finally made me uninstall your S H I T.

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Posted by: epoc.7941

epoc.7941

Not to mention the sword AA dps still inferior to dagger (before you say its wrong, go and try with same attack power on a non-critable dummy), and less interesting for a pressure set (weakness and crip 2s VS poison 7s and 10 endurance).
Sword needs a real buff. All i ask is a smart buff not sth making the set OP or exeedingly accessible..

Agreed I’m not for my fav class being op I just wanna have fun on it and be able to play what I want and know I’m contributing to my team.

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Pistol whip doesn’t need splitting IMO. It’s a stun, evade and solid damage all in one, and it roots you in order to balance the good points. I play S/P with bound and pulmonary impact, using these to pressure with autos and immobs is the bulk of my damage and I save pistol whip for a finishing move when I know it can’t be mitigated. It’s perfectly viable, it’s just not easily spammable like shadow shot and it has a different pace to D/P that you have to get used to.

Concerning sword mainhand itself, I still don’t know why it didn’t get a damage increase but dagger and staff got two increases in recent patches. The aftercast change was brilliant as it made using quickness much better overall, but considering the speed of the dagger auto you’d think the sword would do more damage per hit.

Critical Kit, Thief.
Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Not to mention the sword AA dps still inferior to dagger (before you say its wrong, go and try with same attack power on a non-critable dummy), and less interesting for a pressure set (weakness and crip 2s VS poison 7s and 10 endurance).
Sword needs a real buff. All i ask is a smart buff not sth making the set OP or exeedingly accessible..

I want to correct misinformation in this statement.

Purely sword AA DPS is and has been better than dagger DPS since the game’s launch. That said, it’s barely noticeable as it’s around a margin of 2% last I checked.

Dagger just has better overall DPS by a large margin because of heartseeker spam at low HP and backstabs at high HP with quick recovery animations into the AA. From a pressure POV, sword was historically also better before condition builds were made so overpowered and AA’s buffed into infinity (rarely would good thieves get through their whole AA combo before the ridiculous damage increases) since it effectively acted as a permanent-uptime 25% damage reduction negating crits on top of its evasion, boon stripping, and lockdown between IS/IR and auto-cripple.

The sword isn’t weak at all so much as defenses right now are so overtuned it only feels like it lacks damage, especially since it has fewer meaningful damage options than the dagger or staff with less reliability and higher initiative costs.

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Posted by: Saku Joe.2857

Saku Joe.2857

Not to mention the sword AA dps still inferior to dagger (before you say its wrong, go and try with same attack power on a non-critable dummy), and less interesting for a pressure set (weakness and crip 2s VS poison 7s and 10 endurance).
Sword needs a real buff. All i ask is a smart buff not sth making the set OP or exeedingly accessible..

I want to correct misinformation in this statement.

Purely sword AA DPS is and has been better than dagger DPS since the game’s launch. That said, it’s barely noticeable as it’s around a margin of 2% last I checked.

Sorry again but no. Nowadays sword AA deal less dps (roughly 1.5k/s for sword with 2.5k power and 1.7k/s for dagger)

Congratz Anet cunts, u finally made me uninstall your S H I T.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

1.5k? 1.7k? Those numbers make absolutely no sense. Even my non-crit sword and dagger AA’s per hit on most things hit an upwards of 2-3k. Those numbers are extremely low, and the sword’s better scaling will yield better results with large boon quantities as well (which DPS is often measured under since DPS only matters in PvE where large quantities of boons are mandated for use).

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Posted by: Rastaman.9015

Rastaman.9015

Guys i solved the problem check me out!!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/VIDEO-AZ-s-Swordmaster-build/first#post6205969

One of the biggest misconceptions i find with sword users is that, they think sword is supposed to be all damage like dagger main hand. They get so used to the big numbers they hinder swords ability to survive just about anything. The thief is king of not getting hit. And curing self ailments and all around debuffing and debilitating the foe. What I did in this build Is manage to keep alot of the damage and add more condition removal and defenses cuz right now i think we all can agree that a condi team of 2 reapers and burn war a condi mes and a block burn guard is terrifying. This build can tank any professions entire burst especially condi. You have just enough vitality to tank warrior GS Axe/Shield burst until u stun break.

With this build thieves can still insta gib you but they have to be 11k. Your defense against this would be obviously the many evades thief has access to. Also this build isnt the best 1v1 build as i have trouble killing sage condi warriors by myself. But this build excels in team fights. Cripple,immobilize, endless stuns, blind, and boon removal all in conjunction with who ever you main damager is will kill anyone. The damage from this thief build is still considerably high though. try it out! Give me a video like when you own with it!

The class master. I enjoy all of the professions.

(edited by Rastaman.9015)

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Posted by: Saku Joe.2857

Saku Joe.2857

1.5k? 1.7k? Those numbers make absolutely no sense. Even my non-crit sword and dagger AA’s per hit on most things hit an upwards of 2-3k. Those numbers are extremely low, and the sword’s better scaling will yield better results with large boon quantities as well (which DPS is often measured under since DPS only matters in PvE where large quantities of boons are mandated for use).

Tell where i’m wrong then. I’ve done the test on a non-critable dummy, without any trait granting damage multipliers, and with the same attack power, over 10s for a realistic result.
I agree that sword AA last hit is the strongest one, but it doesn’t mean the average is in favor of sword. On a top of that, you can barely land a third AA sword in a fight without taking risk, since the sword AA is still slow.
So tell me your point of view, maybe i missed something upon testing?

Regards.

Congratz Anet cunts, u finally made me uninstall your S H I T.

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Posted by: epoc.7941

epoc.7941

Guys i solved the problem check me out!!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/VIDEO-AZ-s-Swordmaster-build/first#post6205969

One of the biggest misconceptions i find with sword users is that, they think sword is supposed to be all damage like dagger main hand. They get so used to the big numbers they hinder swords ability to survive just about anything. The thief is king of not getting hit. And curing self ailments and all around debuffing and debilitating the foe. What I did in this build Is manage to keep alot of the damage and add more condition removal and defenses cuz right now i think we all can agree that a condi team of 2 reapers and burn war a condi mes and a block burn guard is terrifying. This build can tank any professions entire burst especially condi. You have just enough vitality to tank warrior GS Axe/Shield burst until u stun break.

With this build thieves can still insta gib you but they have to be 11k. Your defense against this would be obviously the many evades thief has access to. Also this build isnt the best 1v1 build as i have trouble killing sage condi warriors by myself. But this build excels in team fights. Cripple,immobilize, endless stuns, blind, and boon removal all in conjunction with who ever you main damager is will kill anyone. The damage from this thief build is still considerably high though. try it out! Give me a video like when you own with it!

i don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. sword still has its upsides it technically idk if its the highest dps AA i haven’t tested to see if staff is better but i imagine it would be. the things that S/D and S/P provide are useful but they could be better. My request isn’t for an overhaul of the weapon set just changes to 2 skills the (3) skills and yeah i guess the AA too lol. i think tat this weapon set would be amazing if these changes were made and we would see a nice variety of thieves in the game from d/d condi to d/p to p/p staff to then s/d and s/p. that’s a game world i wanna live in (lets face it i don’t think p/d will ever get love lol).

cool vid btw. now imagine being able to pistolwhip then use the evasive attack when ever you want to get a stun/interupt when u want without being rooted and then putting yourself in position to do good damage or immobilize your opponent and then unleash the attack.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Mind sharing your build epoc? Your AA’s are still pretty weak, and in the video you didn’t have boons (which affect the results of scaling since sword has better coefficients and thus will take advantage of higher power values and more stacked damage-per-hit modifiers). The only thing I can think of is if you’re not built to get scaling damage to take advantage of the higher coefficients on the sword and are thus taking the penalties of lower attack speed.

The other possibility being that they didn’t buff the sword’s animation speed as much as they claimed, and the timings per attack are slightly off. I don’t often do such testing since I don’t PvE, but based on patch notes and what changed and historically the output of the AA chain on Sword, it should be doing better DPS on AA comparisons alone.

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Posted by: epoc.7941

epoc.7941

Mind sharing your build epoc? Your AA’s are still pretty weak, and in the video you didn’t have boons (which affect the results of scaling since sword has better coefficients and thus will take advantage of higher power values and more stacked damage-per-hit modifiers). The only thing I can think of is if you’re not built to get scaling damage to take advantage of the higher coefficients on the sword and are thus taking the penalties of lower attack speed.

The other possibility being that they didn’t buff the sword’s animation speed as much as they claimed, and the timings per attack are slightly off. I don’t often do such testing since I don’t PvE, but based on patch notes and what changed and historically the output of the AA chain on Sword, it should be doing better DPS on AA comparisons alone.

that wasnt me in that vid that was rastaman’s vid i beleive i was just replaying to his comment.
i actually run d/p staff or bow although i have been playing around with s/d staff recently which is pretty fun. I love staff (and no not for spamming 5 lol) and s/d so i thought id try something with them together currently i’m running acrobatics down-mid-up trickery mid-up-mid and daredevil mid-mid-down…..its not something i use all the time im just playing around with new stuff usually i just run s/d bow. But this has been fun i don’t get the executioner buff but i still get the 7% from swindler’s equilibrium and u can go for havoc mastery (instead of weakening strikes) for another 7% i think if u want to add to bound that can give u 24% bonus dmg. toy around if u like and tell me what u think i could use some feedback since its just me experimenting with sword again.

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Posted by: kash.9213

kash.9213

I use S/D Acro 3-2-2, Trick 1(2)-2-2, DD 1-3-3. I’m not good at sciencing the kitten out of a build, I mostly feel things out along the way. Havoc and Swindlers together feel like I’m at a decent enough threshold where I don’t have too many runaways where one more hit might have ended it. Still, I felt the need to bring Impacting Disruption and to rely on Trickery for condition clear where Executioner would have been a nice crutch.

I do feel the effort with S/D though when I’m not using Havoc or Swindlers but that might just be my impatience with the visuals, sword looks slow and each #1 third hit is like a slow countdown.

Kash
NSP

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Yea, without running DA/CS/Tr or DA/CS/DrD or the likes, you’re going to see dagger do better since scaling will affect the DPH less than sword due to the multiplicative nature of it, giving attack speed the edge by that point.

Not to say OH dagger has its issues (S/D and D/D both have problems), however MH sword AA under “normal” PvE conditions on a DPS build should be much higher than posted above.