Guild Wars 2

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.

If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.

So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke

Thief is suppose is designed that way to engage and disengage as they sit fit. That is due to mobility more so than stealth. Thieves aren’t invincible and the fact that your implying they are shows your reaching here in this thread as been pointed out. Go make your video ok cause right now you make no sense.

Lets say you are being serious as 2 thieves trying to kill 4 people you might have to chose to use your refuge to secure a stomp or save it defensively. If you attempted to use your refuge to secure a stomp then how are you gonna save your buddy if he goes down? Pros cons, risk vs reward.

This is how your video will go 4 people you and a buddy go in cnd on them dodge rolling they do damage to you and 1 of you goes down assuming you get a successful rez then you will try to stall for close to 60 secs until your buddies SR is off cooldown dodge rolling etc you might be forced totally distance enough to leave combat and go back in an repeat. Accomplishing absolutely nothing. Also not making your point that its over powered either.

Your also going to cherry pick your 4 people as I am sure you wont attempt this vs 2+ guardians.

My guess is one of your 4 people will either be a minion master necro, a mesmer, or a ranger. I bet you want all 3

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.

If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.

So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke

Thief is suppose is designed that way to engage and disengage as they sit fit. That is due to mobility more so than stealth. Thieves aren’t invincible and the fact that your implying they are shows your reaching here in this thread as been pointed out. Go make your video ok cause right now you make no sense.

Lets say you are being serious as 2 thieves trying to kill 4 people you might have to chose to use your refuge to secure a stomp or save it defensively. If you attempted to use your refuge to secure a stomp then how are you gonna save your buddy if he goes down? Pros cons, risk vs reward.

This is how your video will go 4 people you and a buddy go in cnd on them dodge rolling they do damage to you and 1 of you goes down assuming you get a successful rez then you will try to stall for close to 60 secs until your buddies SR is off cooldown dodge rolling etc you might be forced totally distance enough to leave combat and go back in an repeat. Accomplishing absolutely nothing. Also not making your point that its over powered either.

Actually it would be 48 seconds until its back up and you wouldnt have to stall that long because you have two of them available for use. Using it while low on life right before you get killed will allow you to actually revive yourself most of the time

Peg leg the downed person right after refuge. Simple solution that any prof can do. I assume you are talking about WvW because this scenario in sPvP would be a joke.

Holding points is a big part of it. So is being able to move people off or kill them. You’d think that the un-seeable massive DPS killing machine would be mandatory right?

No.

Forcing the thief to stealth is the same as moving them off. Hence, due to the Thief’s dependence (as described by so many of you) on stealth, it isn’t hard to move them off a point.

Also, if you actually listened to the top sPvP players, Thieves can be good roamers, but with the current power of the Elementalist, especially due to not needing stealth and having massive amounts of AOE, the Elementalist is the prime class to have as a roamer.

As far as the “unseeable” and “massive DPS killing machine” … as I’ve said many times before, those are two different thief specs.

The unseeable is an issue in that they still do good enough damage to kill you while spending a ridiculously low amount of time out of stealth.

The massive DPS killing machine does damage just like any other glass cannon. However, the difference is the lack of animations. We see elementalists ride the lighting, burning speed, etc.. We see warriors bull’s charge, bola, 100 blades, eviscerate, etc.. We do not see the stealth thief and their backstab.

Sebrent.3625:

Forcing the thief to stealth is the same as moving them off. Hence, due to the Thief’s dependence (as described by so many of you) on stealth, it isn’t hard to move them off a point.

Also, if you actually listened to the top sPvP players, Thieves can be good roamers, but with the current power of the Elementalist, especially due to not needing stealth and having massive amounts of AOE, the Elementalist is the prime class to have as a roamer.

As far as the “unseeable” and “massive DPS killing machine” … as I’ve said many times before, those are two different thief specs.

The unseeable is an issue in that they still do good enough damage to kill you while spending a ridiculously low amount of time out of stealth.

The massive DPS killing machine does damage just like any other glass cannon. However, the difference is the lack of animations. We see elementalists ride the lighting, burning speed, etc.. We see warriors bull’s charge, bola, 100 blades, eviscerate, etc.. We do not see the stealth thief and their backstab.

You didn’t really answer the question…

If they can spike so much damage (and in such an unfair, mega OP means), why are they so undesired?

Could it be that good players have (gasp) learned how to deal with this incredibly OP means of damage delivery??

As far as roaming goes, I don’t understand why you mention stealth. We do not require stealth for our access to mobility, nor does it have any bearing on our mobility (outside of escape tactics), so why exactly is that a hindrance?

Sebrent.3625:

Forcing the thief to stealth is the same as moving them off. Hence, due to the Thief’s dependence (as described by so many of you) on stealth, it isn’t hard to move them off a point.

Also, if you actually listened to the top sPvP players, Thieves can be good roamers, but with the current power of the Elementalist, especially due to not needing stealth and having massive amounts of AOE, the Elementalist is the prime class to have as a roamer.

As far as the “unseeable” and “massive DPS killing machine” … as I’ve said many times before, those are two different thief specs.

The unseeable is an issue in that they still do good enough damage to kill you while spending a ridiculously low amount of time out of stealth.

The massive DPS killing machine does damage just like any other glass cannon. However, the difference is the lack of animations. We see elementalists ride the lighting, burning speed, etc.. We see warriors bull’s charge, bola, 100 blades, eviscerate, etc.. We do not see the stealth thief and their backstab.

Your first sentence is the important bit. Thieves can’t stay on point nor move a bunker off… so no point being there. Why is it these heroic bunkers and point attackers have no probs with thieves? Decent build and have learnt to play.

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.

If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.

So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke

Thief is suppose is designed that way to engage and disengage as they sit fit. That is due to mobility more so than stealth. Thieves aren’t invincible and the fact that your implying they are shows your reaching here in this thread as been pointed out. Go make your video ok cause right now you make no sense.

Lets say you are being serious as 2 thieves trying to kill 4 people you might have to chose to use your refuge to secure a stomp or save it defensively. If you attempted to use your refuge to secure a stomp then how are you gonna save your buddy if he goes down? Pros cons, risk vs reward.

This is how your video will go 4 people you and a buddy go in cnd on them dodge rolling they do damage to you and 1 of you goes down assuming you get a successful rez then you will try to stall for close to 60 secs until your buddies SR is off cooldown dodge rolling etc you might be forced totally distance enough to leave combat and go back in an repeat. Accomplishing absolutely nothing. Also not making your point that its over powered either.

Actually it would be 48 seconds until its back up and you wouldnt have to stall that long because you have two of them available for use. Using it while low on life right before you get killed will allow you to actually revive yourself most of the time

Anyway just bump this when you made the video. I can’t wait for the lulz

oZii.2864:

Anyway just bump this when you made the video. I can’t wait for the lulz

Don’t hold your breath….

@Laika
What question did I not answer?

You guys asked about why Thief wasn’t as popular in sPvP. I answered. Elementalist has the same mobility, doesn’t require stealth which is actually a hinderance when contesting a point in sPvP, and can provide support while providing good dps. The thief doesn’t provide support unless they are a venom share build in which case they are no long as good of a roamer as the Elementalist. Additionally, as I stated, the Elementalist is superior when it comes to AOE damage which is quite helpful when it comes to contesting a point against multiple enemies.

@Faeyd
Because of the way sPvP works. Team’s employ 2+ bunkers. These players are built to hold a point against multiple people long enough for the roamer(s) to assist. As such, they simply have to “not die” for X amount of time till their roamer(s) come and team on the Thief. In WvW, those same bunker builds get chipped to death by the heavy stealth thief. The burst thief isn’t really a threat to them, but it can often quite easily escape from them as well.

Now, if I could just roam in WvW as a bunker and know that in the next 15 seconds after I start a fight that a teammate will come 2v1 the Thief with me, that’d be great. However, that doesn’t really support the “Thieves are fine” argument.

Also … let’s not forgot that skills, state, abilities, etc. are not all the same between PvE+WvW and sPvP.

Sebrent.3625:

Now, if I could just roam in WvW as a bunker and know that in the next 15 seconds after I start a fight that a teammate will come 2v1 the Thief…

If nobody comes to your aid, the flaw is in how there is less coordination in Wvw

Also … let’s not forgot that skills, state, abilities, etc. are not all the same between PvE+WvW and sPvP.

Perhaps Wvw should simply become PvP area then, PvP gear, no food etc…

frans, your post is basically saying:

(1) The flaw is that you don’t always have someone to come save you when a thief catches you 1v1 in WvW

(2) It’s not thieves that are the problem, it’s WvW

The first one is amusing.
The second one leads to the question of “then why isn’t this being brought up for other classes”.

You guys keep saying that “there is no infinite stealth build” … but there are posts asking how to do it with replies on how to do it and there are videos showing people do it.

You guys keep saying that “infinite stealth doesn’t do enough damage to kill” … but those same videos show them doing more than enough damage to kill.

You guys say to blindly attack in refuge … but refuge is a large AOE and the thief can move around inside it, can see you, and you can’t see the thief … the thief can even dodge roll … and it allows the thief to stack stealth so that when it ends its short duration you have quite a long stealth duration.

You guys say to dodge roll backstabs … but we can’t see stealth thieves … hence the stealth part.

You guys say cloak and dagger doesn’t do much damage, but it did over 5k in the screenshot I posted from this week.

You can keep saying the Thief is “fine”, but, again, there are screenshots, other forum posts by you same guys (and gals), and videos that all say otherwise.

Sebrent.3625:

frans, your post is basically saying:

(1) The flaw is that you don’t always have someone to come save you when a thief catches you 1v1 in WvW

I am saying the flaw, or difference is that there is no coordination in Wvw

(2) It’s not thieves that are the problem, it’s WvW

No, the players. The format doesn’t prevent you from organized team play

The second one leads to the question of “then why isn’t this being brought up for other classes”.

Because you haven’t learned to deal with thieves yet. The existence of people who have learned to deal with them proves you are wrong.

You guys keep saying that “there is no infinite stealth build” … but there are posts asking how to do it with replies on how to do it and there are videos showing people do it.

I am pretty certain I never said there is no such build. But I am pretty sure it doesn’t do a lot, you see, hitting stuff doesn’t mix with infinite stealth. If you use the Black Powder / Heartseeker combination you have just barely enough initiative regeneration to keep it going and you can’t miss any HS or the party is over. If you break stealth by hitting something, you get revealed and infinite stealth is over, if you try to hit them in between stealth you’ll no longer be infinitely stealthed, and probably not very effective without backstab.

You guys say to blindly attack in refuge …

Just do something, don’t just stand around waiting to get butchered. You’ll never learn unless you try things and even if you fail your attempt you’ve still learned more then when just standing around.

Enough people have learned to deal with Shadow Refuge for thieves to consider using the skill a risk.

Also, you are staring too much at a few abilities, you qualifying them as (too) strong and keep staring at those and while staring you will not see your opportunities

You guys say to dodge roll backstabs … but we can’t see stealth thieves … hence the stealth part.

First, you’re going to make it harder for them when you keep moving. If he’s going for your back then you know where he’s going to, and where you won’t be when he gets there.

You guys say cloak and dagger doesn’t do much damage, but it did over 5k in the screenshot I posted from this week.

I don’t say that.

You can keep saying the Thief is “fine”, but, again, there are screenshots, other forum posts by you same guys (and gals), and videos that all say otherwise.

Well, there are people who say they have no problems with thieves, and some of them eat thieves for breakfast. The existence of people who have learned to deal with(counter) thieves completely destroys your position and proves that those guys and gals are right.

I still have no issues with thieves.

I stopped playing mine if W3, just too squishy and haven’t found a build I liked. I’ll revisit it later when I’ve more gold to try out a few other gear combinations, until then I’ll be happy with my warrior and hopefully guardian and mesmer will be fun classes to play. With my warrior, I can enter the zerg, do my hammer antics and get out without dying much easier than I could enter a zerg with my thief.

They don’t kill me unless I do something stupid. Having played one, I have a decent idea what they will be doing next. I have no problem anticipating where they will be when they stealth.

They are fine as they are.

Ozx.5683:

Actually it would be 48 seconds until its back up and you wouldnt have to stall that long because you have two of them available for use. Using it while low on life right before you get killed will allow you to actually revive yourself most of the time

They only survive because I’m not around. When thieves use SR just before they are about to die, it only takes one good earth shaker to down them. Then I swing until my attack animation changes and that is where they are.

I love it when thieves shadow refuge. Makes them easy targets.

It is getting to the point where I don’t even want to WvW anymore yeah i used to have the skill to kill anyone I was faced with. But now thieves are getting skills that pretty much perma stealths them? no matter how many times i knock them down or keep them on the ground they will just get back up and be in stealth for 10 sec+. This is not how the class is supposed to be played like this I cant even hit them? Yak’s Bend is FULL of them no one is using anything but thieves anymore in WvW on that side. Either have it like WoW’s stealth where there is 1 vanish and perma stealth or have it where you were going with it where they can only be in stealth for just seconds but having both is just rediculous its gettign to the point we need whole groups to take out 1 thief but they end up vanishing and running away not to be seen anyway so please do something about this or you won’t find me in WvW anymore and since PvE isnt established right may full on quit.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Ozx.5683:

Actually it would be 48 seconds until its back up and you wouldnt have to stall that long because you have two of them available for use. Using it while low on life right before you get killed will allow you to actually revive yourself most of the time

They only survive because I’m not around. When thieves use SR just before they are about to die, it only takes one good earth shaker to down them. Then I swing until my attack animation changes and that is where they are.

I love it when thieves shadow refuge. Makes them easy targets.

Seriously, this. SR against a smart enemy is usually suicide. Plenty of thieves are already considering SR to be more and more of a risk in actual combat. and don’t even slot it. I hear people always say: “Just dodge around in it and you’re invincible!” This is assuming the thief has dodges left, and besides, 3 – 4 seconds can feel like an eternity when trying to avoid getting smacked in the face in a relatively tiny bubble, especially when you’re at low health and desperately need to get away. One wrong slide out of the bubble and you’re toast.

If a thief uses shadowstep to gain distance then cast, well now he’s likely blown his only stunbreak, and can’t use it for a res assist (which is also pitifully bad against enemies who know to smack the downed body).

only the little house (shadows refuge) gives theives 10+ secs of stealth; every other skill is 3 secs (4 with traits)

The problem is largely in culling. And the culling “fixes” only made it worse.

Please dont make me record a video of a thief being stealthed the entire time i can see them throwing that powder on the ground if i am lucky to stay invisible 100% of the time (unless they are behind me and very good staying out of my screen)

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

yeah here is the sad thing the thieves i go against are ten times worse they spam HS every chance they get and i mean every chance. And when it isnt that they are stealthed. I was in a zerg and this one really hated me because i got away from her “omgmeltfaceleetness” that in the zerg she would pop in hs me to 30% health then while everyone trys to kill her they dont even get a shot in cause right after she stealths again then rinse and repeat rinse and repeat…. this cant be right?

Shrilly.7184:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

yeah here is the sad thing the thieves i go against are ten times worse they spam HS every chance they get and i mean every chance. And when it isnt that they are stealthed. I was in a zerg and this one really hated me because i got away from her “omgmeltfaceleetness” that in the zerg she would pop in hs me to 30% health then while everyone trys to kill her they dont even get a shot in cause right after she stealths again then rinse and repeat rinse and repeat…. this cant be right?

well let’s be honest. 2 2 2. it leaps you forward, can do 6k+ dmg. let’s tally it up.

6k… 12k… 18k… you just killed most people.

vespers.1759:

Shrilly.7184:

vespers.1759:

you mean you don’t think this is balanced? HOW DARE YOU?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE

yeah here is the sad thing the thieves i go against are ten times worse they spam HS every chance they get and i mean every chance. And when it isnt that they are stealthed. I was in a zerg and this one really hated me because i got away from her “omgmeltfaceleetness” that in the zerg she would pop in hs me to 30% health then while everyone trys to kill her they dont even get a shot in cause right after she stealths again then rinse and repeat rinse and repeat…. this cant be right?

well let’s be honest. 2 2 2. it leaps you forward, can do 6k+ dmg. let’s tally it up.

6k… 12k… 18k… you just killed most people.

Was never any truer words said. I watched the video that video is practically everyone on yak’s bend granted i see warriors and etc. here and there but is usually groups of whole thieves etc. doing that video everywhere

Wow, tons of misinformation here in this thread. All I saw in that video was a thief attacking people who weren’t even fighting back. Not really OP if you ask me. Also vespers, that’s not the was HS works at all.

Nerfing a class because of l2p issues is not the way to go and I’m glad Anet is taking their time to make sure they get it right.

Also, this post belongs in the thief subforum with the other 50 threads that consist of the same thing.

Jrunyon.3012:

Wow, tons of misinformation here in this thread. All I saw in that video was a thief attacking people who weren’t even fighting back. Not really OP if you ask me. Also vespers, that’s not the was HS works at all.

Nerfing a class because of l2p issues is not the way to go and I’m glad Anet is taking their time to make sure they get it right.

Also, this post belongs in the thief subforum with the other 50 threads that consist of the same thing.

I love these L2P comments by thieves get a better argument btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet i dont need your opinion just anets views thanks. and if you dont see some people fighting back and dieing in a whole group your blind sir. and no it doesnt belong in the thief sub forum because ppl will QQ “this is for thief help not blah blah” sorry im not doing that read other threads that consisted of such so please sir walk away. You know what not only that but think of it this way could any other class any other whatsoever get away with what that thief did in the video? no…. and on top of that what if all the players left and all that was left were the thieves that are like a cancer? wouldn’t be much fun then would it?

Shrilly.7184:

btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet

Where in your post did you make a suggestion to Anet? Please quote it in a reply.

Thought so.

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet

Where in your post did you make a suggestion to Anet? Please quote it in a reply.

Thought so.

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

vespers.1759:

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

btw this thrwead is in suggestions to anet

Where in your post did you make a suggestion to Anet? Please quote it in a reply.

Thought so.

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

thats pretty obviuosly stated my good man. And yes this is for anet its in suggestions do you think people are posting add this to the game so that the gw2 community goes “oh that would be a great idea too bad” no they want it to happen

vespers.1759:

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, there are more builds then the 2 spam thief, which is btw single target damage so I don’t see how I can take on 20 people.

Sword/pistol is not affected by any of the nerfs you guys are wrongly calling for, but I still am discouraging hasty nerfing on behalf of all classes.

Also, please be at least a bit mature with your replies.

Shrilly.7184:

thats pretty obviuosly stated my good man. And yes this is for anet its in suggestions do you think people are posting add this to the game so that the gw2 community goes “oh that would be a great idea too bad” no they want it to happen

Whatever, continue on with your confirmation bias thread. Hopefully the mods deal with it quickly.

Jrunyon.3012:

vespers.1759:

dis guy is afraid his precious 2 spam thief is gonna get nerfed so he can’t take on 20 people at once anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, there are more builds then the 2 spam thief, which is btw single target damage so I don’t see how I can take on 20 people.

Sword/pistol is not affected by any of the nerfs you guys are wrongly calling for, but I still am discouraging hasty nerfing on behalf of all classes.

Also, please be at least a bit mature with your replies.

….see posted video above to answer your first statement please stop posting in this thread your not helping your cause

Shrilly.7184:

….see posted video above to answer your first statement please stop posting in this thread your not helping your cause

What exactly is the video supposed to answer?

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

….see posted video above to answer your first statement please stop posting in this thread your not helping your cause

What exactly is the video supposed to answer?

which is btw single target damage so I don’t see how I can take on 20 people.

he easily took on maybe 50 i will say that a lot were preoccupied but groups did try to rid the world of that thief on top of that. the statement alone a lot of ppl didnt see him just going around killing player after player because he insta kills then stealths insta kills stealths over and over.

Shrilly.7184:

he easily took on maybe 50 i will say that a lot were preoccupied but groups did try to rid the world of that thief on top of that. the statement alone a lot of ppl didnt see him just going around killing player after player because he insta kills then stealths insta kills stealths over and over.

That’s a D/D backstab build with stealth, not HS spam. Nice to see you know what you’re talking about.

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

he easily took on maybe 50 i will say that a lot were preoccupied but groups did try to rid the world of that thief on top of that. the statement alone a lot of ppl didnt see him just going around killing player after player because he insta kills then stealths insta kills stealths over and over.

That’s a D/D backstab build with stealth, not HS spam. Nice to see you know what you’re talking about.

i saw him spam a coupld times with HS too bad you didnt watch the whole video really shines a spotlight on the class. my main statement was how they can stay in stealth forever please my god please go away your statements are very weak.

Jrunyon.3012:

Shrilly.7184:

….see posted video above to answer your first statement please stop posting in this thread your not helping your cause

What exactly is the video supposed to answer?

oh.my.god.

Seriously, people need to ask – why are they not attacking the thief? It’s true that WvW is full of noobs, but most have the basic intelligence of when they see someone walk up to them and hit them, to break away or engage that person. If you don’t see someone and take a damage number, it’s easy to attribute that to a ranged attack you may have walked in front of. Yes, in the thief video we may see him visible 90% of the time just flashing invisi every now and then… but to the zerg and their joyous culling – THEY DON’T. It’s not them going “der der der, ignore this guy we see right there killing us”, it’s “where the hell is that thief?!” and not being ready to dodge invisible damage 24/7. People may brag they can win 90% of the time in a 1v1 against a thief where they have no distractions, culling doesn’t eff them, and they have the aoes/cc to drop and hope blind luck/crappy thief gets the thief dead. That does not apply in zerg fights, and thieves are a total win button when they can exploit that. The linked video is an example of his culling making him OP, not idiot players. They actively went after him, and were only able to target him if he didn’t cast a stealth move after 5+ seconds.

Culling issues makes stealth broken. I also think that a defense ability with zero counters other than blindly aoeing and hoping the thief is standing there is also imbalanced (especially since they now want to nerf AoEs). Making stealth have a very slight visibility (and I’m talking very slight) gives it a counter on top of solving culling. Their skills, though, shouldn’t be touched until stealth/culling is fixed. Hard to tell how OP a move may or may not be when it’s backed by exploiting thieves.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Seriously, people need to ask – why are they not attacking the thief? It’s true that WvW is full of noobs, but most have the basic intelligence of when they see someone walk up to them and hit them, to break away or engage that person. If you don’t see someone and take a damage number, it’s easy to attribute that to a ranged attack you may have walked in front of. Yes, in the thief video we may see him visible 90% of the time just flashing invisi every now and then… but to the zerg and their joyous culling – THEY DON’T. It’s not them going “der der der, ignore this guy we see right there killing us”, it’s “where the hell is that thief?!” and not being ready to dodge invisible damage 24/7. People may brag they can win 90% of the time in a 1v1 against a thief where they have no distractions, culling doesn’t eff them, and they have the aoes/cc to drop and hope blind luck/crappy thief gets the thief dead. That does not apply in zerg fights, and thieves are a total win button when they can exploit that. The linked video is an example of his culling making him OP, not idiot players. They actively went after him, and were only able to target him if he didn’t cast a stealth move after 5+ seconds.

Culling issues makes stealth broken. I also think that a defense ability with zero counters other than blindly aoeing and hoping the thief is standing there is also imbalanced (especially since they now want to nerf AoEs). Making stealth have a very slight visibility (and I’m talking very slight) gives it a counter on top of solving culling. Their skills, though, shouldn’t be touched until stealth/culling is fixed. Hard to tell how OP a move may or may not be when it’s backed by exploiting thieves.

Thats what im saying its exploited no way the thief is supposed to work like that and i wtiness it every time i enter WvW I also appreciate the intellectual input

Ozx.5683:

First off i’d like to say that I don’t consider the thief class to be overpowered, I just want to make that clear. The only problem i have with the class is the fact that shadow refuge grants stealth for a total of 9 seconds. This can be used to revive a downed ally in stealth. Now you might say that you can spam aoe on top of it if hes sitting there reviving his ally which i agree with, but what happens when you throw it down on top of another downed thief? the downed thief can use his teleport and be revived fairly easily in the 9 seconds of stealth with out any danger of being hit by aoe.

I’m not exactly sure how to change this with out completely destroying the ability. Maybe it could be changed so that you revive people at 50% speed while you are in shadow refuge. Another option would be to cut the duration of the skill down to 6 seconds of stealth. I’m not really sure what the best course of action would be but as it stands now this ability is completely broken in WvW.

Seriously? You really need to learn to play if you think this is an issue. AOE in the circle. If you are so worried about them resing someone while in stealth, you will hit them.

Shadow refuge isn’t really a great skill as it stands since the heal amount is pretty low.

What I will never understand is why noobs come onto the forums complaining because a class beat them. Instead of always asking for nerfs to all classes, just learn to play. Enough said.

Shadow refuge doesn’t grant invulnerability.

If you see a thief trying to rez using shadow refuge, simply auto attack or AoE where the downed player is. Thieves are squishy, they’re not going to sit there copping those hits.

If you think the D/D thief is bad, try fighting a pistol/dagger thief…
hit invis hit invis hit invis etc… no time to target, at range he easily dodges aoe … total win for him :-)

Budchgon.2108:

If you think the D/D thief is bad, try fighting a pistol/dagger thief…
hit invis hit invis hit invis etc… no time to target, at range he easily dodges aoe … total win for him :-)

hmm hit invis(hide in shadow) hit invis(blinding powder) hit invis(shadow refuge) etc ehmm the etc have any more invis? how? you just used all the invis options you ahve for invising at range (cloak and dagger require you get close in melee range)

GummiBear.2756:

Budchgon.2108:

If you think the D/D thief is bad, try fighting a pistol/dagger thief…
hit invis hit invis hit invis etc… no time to target, at range he easily dodges aoe … total win for him :-)

hmm hit invis(hide in shadow) hit invis(blinding powder) hit invis(shadow refuge) etc ehmm the etc have any more invis? how? you just used all the invis options you ahve for invising at range (cloak and dagger require you get close in melee range)

They find a way every time thats how they bounce around a whole zerg for like 2 minutes

Shrilly.7184:

GummiBear.2756:

Budchgon.2108:

If you think the D/D thief is bad, try fighting a pistol/dagger thief…
hit invis hit invis hit invis etc… no time to target, at range he easily dodges aoe … total win for him :-)

hmm hit invis(hide in shadow) hit invis(blinding powder) hit invis(shadow refuge) etc ehmm the etc have any more invis? how? you just used all the invis options you ahve for invising at range (cloak and dagger require you get close in melee range)

They find a way every time thats how they bounce around a whole zerg for like 2 minutes

i was replying to that pistol dagger thief scenario which would not be near as deadly as what you are talking about, since he cant keep invising at range.

That said for your nerf what we need is NOT a nerf to the thief but a proper fix to culling 2 VERY different things. Thiefs are fine, culling is NOT. But as others mentions it is likely D/D backstab thieves not hs spam. Heart seeking spam is stupid from the thieves Point of view in fact, a heartseeking on a target with more than 50% health barely does more dmg that #1 dagger, but still cost 3 ini, so hs first become really a viable option on target under 50% health and only really deadly when they drop below 25%.

Also invis is NOT invulnerability, throw some aoes around if you throw enoguh well he got to be hit and those D/D backstab builds are very fragile first d/d is a very offensive wep set in itself not real survivability in it, and those backstab builds uses all thei utilities as well for those high numbers of backstab damage, and are usually full beserker gear so very squishy

This is annoying as hell. There is no reason one thief can hold 10 people from capping a supply camp. My problem isn’t surviving them, its killing them. If culling is seriously that big of issue disable it. It is such an easy option to kitten off one class vs the others

GummiBear.2756:

Shrilly.7184:

GummiBear.2756:

Budchgon.2108:

If you think the D/D thief is bad, try fighting a pistol/dagger thief…
hit invis hit invis hit invis etc… no time to target, at range he easily dodges aoe … total win for him :-)

hmm hit invis(hide in shadow) hit invis(blinding powder) hit invis(shadow refuge) etc ehmm the etc have any more invis? how? you just used all the invis options you ahve for invising at range (cloak and dagger require you get close in melee range)

They find a way every time thats how they bounce around a whole zerg for like 2 minutes

i was replying to that pistol dagger thief scenario which would not be near as deadly as what you are talking about, since he cant keep invising at range.

That said for your nerf what we need is NOT a nerf to the thief but a proper fix to culling 2 VERY different things. Thiefs are fine, culling is NOT. But as others mentions it is likely D/D backstab thieves not hs spam. Heart seeking spam is stupid from the thieves Point of view in fact, a heartseeking on a target with more than 50% health barely does more dmg that #1 dagger, but still cost 3 ini, so hs first become really a viable option on target under 50% health and only really deadly when they drop below 25%.

Also invis is NOT invulnerability, throw some aoes around if you throw enoguh well he got to be hit and those D/D backstab builds are very fragile first d/d is a very offensive wep set in itself not real survivability in it, and those backstab builds uses all thei utilities as well for those high numbers of backstab damage, and are usually full beserker gear so very squishy

you can be as squishy as you want if you arent hit with the perma stealth pretty much. and when they do stealth they dont stick around to have tea with you so i never get hits in they always walk away then come in again and again and again

i was replying to that pistol dagger thief scenario which would not be near as deadly as what you are talking about, since he cant keep invising at range.

All I know he downed 6 players (including me) shooting – invis repeat …
Aoe fine but very easy to avoid, impossible to target due to speed he appears/disappears … Best advice, see a thief coming at a distance (if lucky) move away… Don’t play his game or stroke his ego…

Budchgon.2108:

i was replying to that pistol dagger thief scenario which would not be near as deadly as what you are talking about, since he cant keep invising at range.

All I know he downed 6 players (including me) shooting – invis repeat …
Aoe fine but very easy to avoid, impossible to target due to speed he appears/disappears … Best advice, see a thief coming at a distance (if lucky) move away… Don’t play his game or stroke his ego…

I say if they are hit it pops them outa stealth (not including condition damage) so we have atleast a chance or something

This is the suggestions forums, not the complaints forums.

Yes, I know, there is no “complaints forum”.

That’s the point.

The community’s discussed this to death already.

Thieves are not to blame, the culling is. And ArenaNet has already stated that they are working on the fixes. If you really can’t tolerate it, STOP PLAYING WvW!

They are not going to nerf Thieves.