Guild Wars 2

HS drama already started ? which is the next skill in the list ? backstab again ?
the sneak attack ?
i am very sure we will get more nerfs after this to satisfy the masses.
The question is: when it will stop ????!!!!
i saw the black ninjas …. they hit hard …

DanH.5879:

HS drama already started ? what is the next skill in the list ? backstab again ?
the sneak attack ?
i am very sure we will get more nerfs after this to satisfy the masses.
The question is: when it will stop ????!!!!

I was actually going to complain how thieves guild takes no skill and is a cheap tactic in a 1v1, especially when used from shadow refuge to safely cast it and take people by surprise(this is a joke)

yes, i also agree that thieves guild DO NOT last more than 5-10 vs pve boss fights…
care to comment on that also ?
but let’s talk mesmer Time Warp 10 sec quickness, no penalty

Cynical from Grindhouse Gaming on Ehmry Bay, read my posts. I’m not dying to these people except when someone good has me tied down or forced me to already blow my stunbreakers, endurance, blocks, etc. or there is a group of 3 noob thieves that use culling and have you dead before they are visible. Read my actual posts, take note that I supply evidence (where’s yours), that you’re full of bull when it comes to how much damage heartseeker does (see the evidence), and try to be less of a troll. I use to have respect for you as a player but lately your colors as someone who loves to be a troll are coming out here and on the ehmry forum.

As far as comparing the Mesmer and Thief, you were the one comparing a Mesmer using Decoy, Magic Bullet, Illusionary Leap, Swap, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Wrack to a Thief using Heartseeker Spam. The former is an actual rotation, or more accurately, a chaining of different abilities. The latter is someone hitting the same button over and over again.

You can try to be a jerk as much as you want, but I’m going to stick with facts, as I have been.

When it comes to nerfing thief, I admitted a few posts back that I’m fine with waiting to see how things change after they fix culling (scroll up, it’s as easy as your class)

These posts have been talking about the differences in skill required and how there is a large disparity between the skill required for a thief to be successful and a non-thief to be successful.

I understand that you Thief players are defensive because you think this somehow detracts from how good you are since it seems like people saying “it’s just the class, not you”. However, put your little Thief egos aside. I actually complemented Cynical for being a good sword thief in another thread because it is praiseworthy. I’m sure there are plenty of you that are actually very good. However, the thief class is a bit much when it comes to how much you can do with very little skill.

I shouldn’t have to be awake to kill someone who is asleep with their nose stuck on the 2 key.

I still don’t get what your problem is so now the problem your fighting someone else and a thief heartseeker you in the back after you blew cool downs? Anyone can do that with any skill. I don’t care if you don’t respect me based on my forum posts that’s silly.

I troll occasionally or if someone posts something crazy. Your jumping all over the place as usual with your posts about thieves and others. Your reading what you want.

I said that a thief spamming 2 assumes they are going to crit the burst opener and your going to be under 50% so they spam 2 after. The burst opener is 5,F1,1 from behind, then spam 2. You can add baslisks to that if you like.

That was APART of my counter argument to your claim that heartseeker is so good. Did I really need to spell out the burst opener for a glass cannon thief followed by 2? I guess so that was the rotation comparison.

Your counter to that was “How can you compare decoy to heartseeker”. What? Lol. All over the place I said burst rotation assume under 50% spam 2 I even bolder it for you.

Then your next statement makes it sounds like there a thieves opening and using nothing but 2,2,2 HIS 222. That is the funny part that I can’t believe you die to that. Now you are saying you don’t die to it unless your fighting someone else. I can sword auto chain you if you tied up with someone else and blew everything.

Your all over the place with your argument.

So is the problem you have with heartseeker while your engaged fighting another person?

I mean if someone is fighting someone else and am going to kill them in not going to blow everything to kill someone that is at half life that’s overkill and wasted cool downs and Dps. At best I will go in stealth and back stab auto attack them.

oZii.2864:

So is the problem you have with heartseeker while your engaged fighting another person?

I mean if someone is fighting someone else and am going to kill them in not going to blow everything to kill someone that is at half life that’s overkill and wasted cool downs and Dps. At best I will go in stealth and back stab auto attack them.

The problem also is, if we do waste everything downing him and someone else is near, we’re not CD based, his Teammate can just rez him back up.

I stand corrected in my assessment of heartseeker. I never spammed it before on opponents as I thought it was really lackluster. I definitely think it needs a nerf. I recorded 3 good clips in WvW.

Changed my build up to 25/30/15. 2.3k power 58 crit chance and 85 crit damage. I was suprised at the numbers I was able to achieve and how effective it was in WvW.

It is rendering now I will post it in here for devs to get solid feedback.

oZii.2864:

I stand corrected in my assessment of heartseeker. I never spammed it before on opponents as I thought it was really lackluster. I definitely think it needs a nerf. I recorded 3 good clips in WvW.

Changed my build up to 25/30/15. 2.3k power 58 crit chance and 85 crit damage. I was suprised at the numbers I was able to achieve and how effective it was in WvW.

It is rendering now I will post it in here for devs to get solid feedback.

Heartseeker is fine, honestly its one of the easiest moves to avoid in the game with a sound that makes it even easier.

oZii.2864:

I still don’t get what your problem is so now the problem your fighting someone else and a thief heartseeker you in the back after you blew cool downs? Anyone can do that with any skill.

No, if a warrior jumps on me while I’m fighting someone else I can create distance from them unless I have absolutely nothing or they pop several different abilities (bola, bull’s charge, whirlwind, rush, etc.). The thief simply has to spam heartseeker. For each ability I still have up or dodge roll I’m able to do, the Warrior has to use something else to stick to me. The Thief just press 2 again.

oZii.2864:

I troll occasionally or if someone posts something crazy. Your jumping all over the place as usual with your posts about thieves and others. Your reading what you want.

oZii.2864:

Your counter to that was “How can you compare decoy to heartseeker”. What? Lol. All over the place I said burst rotation assume under 50% spam 2 I even bolder it for you.

Am I reading what I want or are you … let’s take a look at what I said

How can you compare a Mesmer using a utility (Decoy), and 3 separate weapon skills to someone spamming heartseeker.

Yeah, wasn’t comparing it to just Decoy.

Sebrent.3625:

I said that a thief spamming 2 assumes they are going to crit the burst opener and your going to be under 50% so they spam 2 after. The burst opener is 5,F1,1 from behind, then spam 2. You can add baslisks to that if you like.

oZii.2864:

Then your next statement makes it sounds like there a thieves opening and using nothing but 2,2,2 HIS 222. That is the funny part that I can’t believe you die to that. Now you are saying you don’t die to it unless your fighting someone else. I can sword auto chain you if you tied up with someone else and blew everything.

Go back and look at the pictures I linked. I linked them especially for the reason that they show two things: (1) Thief using just heartseeker (2) Heartseeker doing an average of 3k to 4k per hit. I’m sure it hit for less initially and more when they were lower.

oZii.2864:

Your all over the place with your argument.

It’s called multiple points. If you can’t handle discussing several things at once, step out.

I’m still not sure what facts you’ve brought to the argument yet … other than your feelings how on how damage things do (which I showed to be wrong) and your “enlightening” post that many people use rotations.

I present the OP Heartseeker build for you viewing pleasure. If you want build info send me a PM. These are facts people! They go way beyond the picture that serbent posted of him getting hit by 7 heartseekers and we are to assume he had no stacks of vulnerability on him at all, or that he was getting heartseeker spammed while he was down.

We are to assume that all 7 of those heartseekers came above 50% health and he was specced for toughness in a tanky build and not glass in a fair 1v1 duel with a heartseeker thief

This video shows that heartseeker definitely needs a nerf

Imagine if I was running all zerker gear and scholar runes how tanky I would be!

The amount of skill needed by my opponents to avoid this deadly attack doesn’t balance with the effectiveness of 2,2,2,2!

Aww, that’s cute that you made a video and it somehow came out in favor of your argument. Imagine that.

I’ll do you one better.

Here’s two videos not made by me that show the opposite.

I’m not really sure what you heartseeker spamming the tanky target in a group and then being zerged by that group really shows other than your ability to intentionally play poorly to try to prove your point.

Also, those pictures aren’t mine. Just like the videos, they are from other sources. It’s amazing that if you simply search for things like gw2, thief, heartseeker, spam, 2013, etc. that you can find very up-to-date instances of shenanigans.

Sebrent.3625:

Aww, that’s cute that you made a video and it somehow came out in favor of your argument. Imagine that.

I’ll do you one better.

Here’s two videos not made by me that show the opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByB7_QhIxws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSH2dKfemj8

I’m not really sure what you heartseeker spamming the tanky target in a group and then being zerged by that group really shows other than your ability to intentionally play poorly to try to prove your point.

---

Also, those pictures aren’t mine. Just like the videos, they are from other sources. It’s amazing that if you simply search for things like gw2, thief, heartseeker, spam, 2013, etc. that you can find very up-to-date instances of shenanigans.

Your reaching now first video is just a dude heartseeker on a afk person

second is a video of a guy using it on people at 50% health which is recommended.

My video wasn’t posted in my favor we told you that it doesn’t do alot of damage above 50% you posted that screen shot. I don’t even run that full glass build with the that much extra crit chance and crit damage. I said my heartseekers hit for around 1.6k on crit which is what they do above 50%. I only run 20 points in crit but I still have 75 crit damage and 49% crit chance.

My video shows your claim that you can just spam 2 and be effective is completely false.

The first video against the afk guy simply shows that it does do good damage and just gets better the more hp the enemy is missing.

The second video he doesn’t only use it on people that are 50% hp or less.

The screenshots I showed show how much damage, more than enough to kill many non-tanky builds as well as non-glassy builds, using just a few heartseekers.

The first video shows how many times a thief can heartseeker in a row. It’s like an alternate auto-attack.

Go back and read some of my other posts Sintacs.

I am annoyed with Thieves because they make it easy to do well.
I feel the thief is a bit of a failure in class design because stealth is powerful in WvW, a little less powerful in sPvP (can’t cap/contest points while stealthed), and is just average in PvE. Due to the Thief as a class being so dependent on stealth (as stated by many of you thieves in this thread) is what has caused the Thief to be seen as so dominant in WvW (culling helps too), strong in sPvP, and average (at best) in dungeons. Furthermore, things that make it easy to stick to a target and do damage (heartseeker) are more effective in PvP than PvE so they help to make the Thief stronger in WvW and sPvP while not really doing much for it in PvE.

Seriously, let’s look at this. Groups of just/mostly thieves are commonly seen in WvW and sPvP. However, most people that join a dungeon group and see 2+ or 3+ thieves in the group usually just leave group.

If the damage is so poor, by the way, why are there so many screenshots and videos showing otherwise and then you come along and somehow something different happens.

So posted a picture of someone else death screen to make your point about heartseeker with no context? How many stacks of might did the thief have, did the target have vulnerability sacks? Was the target down? How much crit damage did thief have, power, traits. That’s weak.

I can go get a picture of a car accident and say hey guys the driver was definitely texting while driving see picture of phone in the car.

Difference being that those were 2 from a large pool of several magnitudes of similar pictures. Did every one of those pictures I could’ve linked have the thief with tons of might and the target with tons of vulnerability? I think not.

If you look at the pictures as well, one of them was hit by other things and the damage doesn’t appear to be increased by vulnerability.

The Thieves in the videos I linked weren’t loaded up with might nor were their targets loaded with vulnerability. Those videos show the same level of damage from heartseeker spam as the pictures.

Sintacs, I understand that you want to feel “great” now that you’re doing better with your Thief than you did with your Mesmer. That’s fine. But let’s at least be honest about your class. Several other Thieves on the Ehmry TS are at least honest about this.

Heck, take a look at the other class forums. You have several people griping about Thieves. You have the Mesmer forum (my main) being awesome (we’re in a pretty good place). You have the Ranger forum full of unhappy people and even the great players, like Sol who kicked your butt with her ranger, saying that the Ranger class is broken, needs some help, and doesn’t have a build that is good for both 1v1, skirmishes and zerg fights like most (if not all) other classes have.

When people talk about killing thieves, they are talking about the bad ones that kill themselves on their opponent’s retaliation and stand in front of enemies that come wading into their Shadow Refuge. The good thieves are patient, they simply get behind the enemy while stealthed (your video on ehmry is a good example of this), etc.. There isn’t much a player can do except GUESS.

If you can’t follow all of this, I’ll make it easy for you …

Bad players playing as thieves are able to compete with average players playing non-thieves due to the abundance of easy-mode garbage thieves give bad players.

Good players playing thieves die if they are unlucky or too stubborn to reset a fight they are losing. Otherwise they reset or find an easier target.

Just to throw my 2 cents in about using heatseeker vs. mesmers; in my experience you’ll kill a clone (via decoy or the dodge roll trait) and they cripple and confuse you making continued use if heartseeker pointless as the leap distance is diminished, it has a decent length channel time, and it hurts you. Thus far I have found hearseeker to only be effective against mesmers once they start to run at ~30% health.

Wait I thought we are talking about heartseeker being a I win button. Now we are on your personal views on thief class from a spvp, WvW, pve standpoint. Guess that’s multiple points.

If you see a lot of thieves in spvp then it’s low level spvp that doesn’t happen at higher levels. In WvW I don’t see more thieves than I do any other class.

Maugetarr.6823:

Just to throw my 2 cents in about using heatseeker vs. mesmers; in my experience you’ll kill a clone (via decoy or the dodge roll trait) and they cripple and confuse you making continued use if heartseeker pointless as the leap distance is diminished, it has a decent length channel time, and it hurts you. Thus far I have found hearseeker to only be effective against mesmers once they start to run at ~30% health.

Yes, this is one reason I LOVE my Mesmer … it gives me options to severely punish bad players. Others are not so blessed.

When I’m on my Ranger, if not playing my trap spec, I can simply evade all the attacks but then the slippery kitten just runs off. If I failed that hard to kill someone they would kill me.

About being honest about the class I am being honest. I’m sorry I have a lot of hours on Mesmer and thief and Mesmer is easier. When I never felt forced to find out the deadly abilities of other classss on my Mesmer because I didn’t die to them often but I did on my thief then for me that means Mesmer is easier to play for me.

I’m not quite sure why other than you avoiding melee more as the Mesmer.
Hundred Blades, Eviscerate, Churning Earth, etc. don’t differentiate between the face of a Mesmer and the face of a Thief.

I’m somehow curious how you never knew what any of these were “before your thief” as I’m sure you blocked some (if you ever used scepter or OH sword), dodge rolled others, blinked away from even more, and used distortion from shatter or hundred blades.

Having played both classes, I disagree with the Mesmer being easier. You may also notice that the various forums aren’t complaining about Mesmers like they are Thieves. Some people hate fighting Mesmers because we’re tricky … but we’re not bloody Thieves.

^ Lol whatever you say brah.
Mesmers are easy to play
So are Warriors
and Thieves.
Elementalists aren’t hard either.
Rangers? Not rly.

All classes in this game are fairly easy to pick-up a battle of “what’s easier” is completely pointless no matter who’s arguing.

I agree that Ranger is much harder to play than my Mesmer. I actually find Warrior harder to play than my Mesmer too.

Please note that when I talk about “harder to play” I mean “harder to play well”

There is no gameplay when you nerf it all.

Basically what enoriski is saying. Like I said for me easier to play compared to Mesmer for my skill level. That’s just me. Those skills you named I didn’t worry about them as much because I had decoy, blink and mirror images I roll all 3 of those. Greatsword and and sword pistol. The warrior is eating all of those skill by time he closes in on me plus confusion damage. Basically softening him up before they even get close. Get to close knock back/stun.

That’s just how it was always on my Mesmer. I am not saying I never died to those skills I have but not enough where I said I need to find out about them.

I never felt like a mmo is really hard I am a fight game fan so it doesn’t compare IMO.

The 2 classes I played with most time for me. I just feel like Mesmer is easier. I just always opened exactly the same way against every opponent no matter the class and it worked most of the time.

alas, the wvw and pvp community wins over the PvE ones
they do not understand we barely have a place in a fractal party

but no, they care only about their stupid 1v1 and 1vs99 fights
and the pve guys just have to endure the nerfs… NOT FAIR !
if i see more “we don’t wan’t thieves” into pug dungeon/farctal party, i swear i’ll emo quit

guess what ! mobs do not care about stealth or culling as in the recent patch !

DanH.5879:

alas, the wvw and pvp community wins over the PvE ones
they do not understand we barely have a place in a fractal party

but no, they care only about their stupid 1v1 and 1vs99 fights
and the pve guys just have to endure the nerfs… NOT FAIR !
if i see more “we don’t wan’t thieves” into pug dungeon/farctal party, i swear i’ll emo quit

guess what ! mobs do not care about stealth or culling as in the recent patch !

No no, DanH. Look back at my previous posts. I’m well aware that you guys need some love in PvE. It’s why I think the class design was a bit of a failure.

As far as opening the same, Cynical, what exactly is different with your thief? Stealth often, hit hard. I’ve seen several a few videos just today that have you fighting in them and you fight the same in each … probably why Sol beat you … perhaps you should have taken advantage of the fact that a Ranger pet is an easy target for cloak and dagger …

I run those exact same 3 utilities as well on my Mesmer. I, again, am not having trouble against the thieves on my Mesmer and my Ranger (when trap build) 1v1. Thieves are not a big issue for me. They are a big issue for a large number of people … thieves of all skill levels because of how stupid easy the class is and because of how ridiculous it is in the hands of average/good players.

Which class has a lower initial learning curve shouldn’t be an issue when you’re balancing for higher end gameplay (which the dev’s have stated they are). I haven’t found any class’s initial learning curve to be prohibitively steep in GW2… and I’ve plaid every class in sPvP as well as every class at 80 in WvW thanks to friends (I can’t seem to force myself to level another class to 80).

I do agree that thieves and mesmers punish the lower skilled players the most. Again… this should not be of any real consequence. A higher skilled player faced with a problem with a specific class will figure out what’s going on and try to counter it instead of complaining.

I see that some people still have issues fighting hearseeker spam thieves… others GC thieves… these seem to be the bulk of the complaints which are from lower level skillplay. You won’t see a vet complaining about these tatics. They are very easy to counter.

If you die to a class you just need to learn how to counter it. Some classes/builds have an easier time vs. other classes/builds.

The developers have said they are balancing things for all skill levels (best of luck to them, that’s difficult at best).

At the higher skill levels, I’ve said I’m willing to concede that we should wait for culling to be fixed in WvW before talking about anything else that may or may not need to be changed with Thieves.

I’m well aware of how Thieves have trouble with bunker builds but at the same time bunker builds have trouble with catching and killing Thieves. It’s like saying the top predator of humans is snails. Great, if a snail ever catches you you’re toast, but how often are you going to get caught by a snail (except in your sleep! look out!)

I’m also aware that Thieves can have trouble against Necromancers (staff and/or wells) and tanky trap Rangers … this comes down to the fact that they can sit in their marks/traps and the are also tanky. Again, though, they can’t really catch a good thief. The thief either overextended their self by going in too deep without their cooldowns or simply got unlucky with some reinforcements or other variable entering the scene.

On the opposite side of that coin, builds that are best countered by your common thief builds are pretty screwed because evading a thief is pretty difficult for most classes that don’t have swiftness and weapon skills that increase their mobility (ride the lightning, rush, heartseeker, etc.). It’s worse than having a build that is countered by an elementalist, warrior, etc. (also high mobility classes) because the counter to the Thief is tanky classes who aren’t going to drop the thief quickly and the Thief can make use of stealth, great mobility, good evasion, and great damage to get in, get the kill, and get out.

With heartseeker, my problem is that it allows a bad player to compete with average and an average player to compete with good players. If you don’t have enough defenses up, they can wreck you. If it’s a group of baddies, they can actually down a good player by all spamming it … especially if they all pop haste too … though if culling is fixed this won’t be as bad as people will actually see them and getting off a distortion, block, etc. will be child’s play instead of a game of “how’s the latency”.

It also allows a bad player to perform better than other bad players as they don’t have to worry about closers, keeping their target in front of them, etc. as the skill does all of that for them.

DanH.5879:

alas, the wvw and pvp community wins over the PvE ones
they do not understand we barely have a place in a fractal party

but no, they care only about their stupid 1v1 and 1vs99 fights
and the pve guys just have to endure the nerfs… NOT FAIR !
if i see more “we don’t wan’t thieves” into pug dungeon/farctal party, i swear i’ll emo quit

guess what ! mobs do not care about stealth or culling as in the recent patch !

this bugs me a lot.

I don t play open pve but lot of dungeons and too often i saw thieves going stealth under aggro letting their target rest health (often particularly at lava shaman in fotm).

So i basically thougt it was a buff and not a nerf.

Instead since that started to appear vids of thieves soloing dungeons.

On my mesmer the stealth patch doesn t seem bad at all ._. i can still drop some aggro but i don t risk reset.

care to explain if and how i am wrong?

P.S. despite i agree that PvP/www is ruining pve to the point that is the most unbalanced part of the game atm.

DanH.5879:

and ppl wonder why we have only 2-3 viable builds…
yes, we spam the same skill due to the initiative system
are you still jealous after the HS was nerfed a lot ?
remember, it was <33% and <66%, what? you want it to be <5% and <10% to be effective?

Some sets are not good for much in a particular build.

D/D you have skill 1 and 2 that does direct/crit damage, skill 3 is condition, 4 is a waste of initiative to use for any kind of damage and even if we didn’t have a initiative system it would be a waste of time to use unless you really really needed to slow someone down, and 5 is for CnD which is utility.

Once you are on revealed, you either use auto attack or spam 2. Heart seeker isn’t bad to finish off a target but you get some builds that just absorb a backstab and that thief is just used to hitting weaker builds that they go into their spam since they can’t CnD for another 2 seconds.

Thief and I think all professions should have a selection of skills for each type of weapon so that if I have a crit build, I can select skills that do only crit damage and get rid of condition weapon skills, or conversely if I have a condition build I can load only condition weapon skills.

oZii.2864:

In WvW I don’t see more thieves than I do any other class.

Yep. You dont see them. Thats exactly the point. lol

Lol, teg, quite right.
Here’s a video of Cynical (oZii.2864) on his thief (Sintact) as recorded by someone on another server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Anyone else have a video of a single non-thief harassing a group like this while staying in range and then taking a few down? No? I wonder why that is.

Heck, people’s advice is to CC the thief. That’s a bloody hammer warrior.

Do please note how he is actually playing like he has a brain in this video as opposed to the one he made to “prove” that heartseeker spam is “nothing”.

Sebrent.3625:

Lol, teg, quite right.
Here’s a video of Cynical (oZii.2864) on his thief (Sintact) as recorded by someone on another server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Anyone else have a video of a single non-thief harassing a group like this while staying in range and then taking a few down? No? I wonder why that is.

Heck, people’s advice is to CC the thief. That’s a bloody hammer warrior.

Do please note how he is actually playing like he has a brain in this video as opposed to the one he made to “prove” that heartseeker spam is “nothing”.

Please someone hide this video from public.
It’s embarassing for us good Warriors to see such a shameful showcase of lack of skill.
A Warrior using Rifle, no balanced stance, focusing thieves guild instead of thief, fails to use Bull properly, zero mobility and even managed to get killed by a Thief.

As for changes, the only thing I’d like to see is Mug dealing its full damage only if flanking.
A thief should be played stealthily, should not be able to unload a big burst from a frontal approach.
Everything else is fine, I’d actually like to see some buffs to other things so maybe they start using different builds.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’d actually like to see some buffs to other things so maybe they start using different builds.

Within reason, I’d be fine with this.

If thieves need buffs in other areas in order for the [stealth] —> [stealth attack] —>[repeat] garbage to go away, I’m all for it.

If you want Cynical’s video on his Mesmer, he does very well on it as well. There is a very big difference in those fights though … for a majority of them he is visible to his opponents.

As far as the rifle … the warrior was trying to use the channeled volley to hit the Thief since it’s “so horrible” when something like that hits a stealth thief :-p

Sebrent.3625:

Lol, teg, quite right.
Here’s a video of Cynical (oZii.2864) on his thief (Sintact) as recorded by someone on another server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Anyone else have a video of a single non-thief harassing a group like this while staying in range and then taking a few down? No? I wonder why that is.

Heck, people’s advice is to CC the thief. That’s a bloody hammer warrior.

Do please note how he is actually playing like he has a brain in this video as opposed to the one he made to “prove” that heartseeker spam is “nothing”.

Lol I didn’t kill anyone in that video the warrior was killed by the theif from ASG notice the corrupted daggers at the end. Those people could have left and I wouldn’t have been able to stop them I had like 18.5k hp in that video as I was learning s/d.

Also look at the engagements I never engaged all 5 of them at the same time I picked at someone seperated attacking maybe 1 or 2 times for most of that video. Notice how I almost die by the dolyak when it’s just him and another person? That was me trolling thieves can do that but I couldn’t have killed any of those people not my fault they stayed there wanting to kill me when they could have went to do something else. Notice how 3 of them you know just left to go do something else.

Notice how you got to stick around until that happened. If they had all run together you could have followed and continued the same. Others can’t do that.

I didn’t say whether or not that was you at the end. I simply stated exactly what you stated on the ehmry forum when you posted this … that a warrior on another server recorded it and you’re in it as the sword thief.

As far as “look! I almost died when 2 people ganged me and CC’d the crud out of me by the Dolyak”. You know what happens when someone else gets CC’d to high heaven? They die. Almost is pretty useless.

Sebrent.3625:

Lol, teg, quite right.
Here’s a video of Cynical (oZii.2864) on his thief (Sintact) as recorded by someone on another server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Anyone else have a video of a single non-thief harassing a group like this while staying in range and then taking a few down? No? I wonder why that is.

Heck, people’s advice is to CC the thief. That’s a bloody hammer warrior.

Do please note how he is actually playing like he has a brain in this video as opposed to the one he made to “prove” that heartseeker spam is “nothing”.

That might be because spamming heartseeker is assinine and tends to get you killed. Just like in the video oZii made.

If you do it and target tanky people in the middle of a group, yes. You’re ignoring the fact that he hit 2 2 and killed the ele and was killing that necromancer easily until its group rolled him. The rest of that video he just does it on a tanky target in the middle of that target’s group and dies. Of course that’s going to happen.

Sebrent.3625:

Notice how you got to stick around until that happened. If they had all run together you could have followed and continued the same. Others can’t do that.

I didn’t say whether or not that was you at the end. I simply stated exactly what you stated on the ehmry forum when you posted this … that a warrior on another server recorded it and you’re in it as the sword thief.

As far as “look! I almost died when 2 people ganged me and CC’d the crud out of me by the Dolyak”. You know what happens when someone else gets CC’d to high heaven? They die. Almost is pretty useless.

So the class that has its defense tied entirely to stealth and evasion, shouldn’t have stealth and evasion. How is that reasonable?

I didn’t say it shouldn’t have them, but it should be visible for at least half the fight. If that means you need some additional tools, I’m all ears.

Sebrent.3625:

If you do it and target tanky people in the middle of a group, yes. You’re ignoring the fact that he hit 2 2 and killed the ele

You mean the upleveled ele that was already at half health because they were being followed by half an enemy zerg? And he didn’t kill them, he downed them. The zerg finished them off.

and was killing that necromancer easily until its group rolled him

He killed the necro? Where?

The rest of that video he just does it on a tanky target in the middle of that target’s group and dies. Of course that’s going to happen.

How are you going to prevent that hitting tanky targets if all you do is spam heartseeker, though? You’d only find out for sure if they were tanky or not after first hitting them.

Sebrent.3625:

I didn’t say it shouldn’t have them, but it should be visible for at least half the fight. If that means you need some additional tools, I’m all ears.

More evasion, P/D needs something over P/P that isn’t Sneak Attack and Flanking Strike needs enough of a buff to justify choosing S/D as opposed to S/P or D/D.

By far the best suggestion I’ve seen make Revealed happen no matter what. It with the culling fix would end perma stealth. Dagger offhands would keep their rotations, D/P would take it the hardest but it has enough blinds to manage.

magicthighs.5372:

Sebrent.3625:

If you do it and target tanky people in the middle of a group, yes. You’re ignoring the fact that he hit 2 2 and killed the ele

You mean the upleveled ele that was already at half health because they were being followed by half an enemy zerg? And he didn’t kill them, he downed them. The zerg finished them off.

and was killing that necromancer easily until its group rolled him

He killed the necro? Where?

The rest of that video he just does it on a tanky target in the middle of that target’s group and dies. Of course that’s going to happen.

How are you going to prevent that hitting tanky targets if all you do is spam heartseeker, though? You’d only find out for sure if they were tanky or not after first hitting them.

Thats what Im trying to figure out where is this necro at? I didn’t see a necro in that video and if there was one I sure didn’t hit him. I guess guardians are auto tanks since they have passive aegis or something. I know I have seen some glass guardians.

Sebrent.3625:

Lol, teg, quite right.
Here’s a video of Cynical (oZii.2864) on his thief (Sintact) as recorded by someone on another server.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArWxfaeeYu4

Anyone else have a video of a single non-thief harassing a group like this while staying in range and then taking a few down? No? I wonder why that is.

Heck, people’s advice is to CC the thief. That’s a bloody hammer warrior.

Do please note how he is actually playing like he has a brain in this video as opposed to the one he made to “prove” that heartseeker spam is “nothing”.

All i see happening here is a thief doing 1-2k crits and then stealthing away after the warrior crams him with 3-5k hits… also note, the warrior’s health bar hardly goes down below 14k at any time in the video. Another note: The people the thief is fighting against actually say… he isnt hitting hard, all he can do is stealth. So umm… basically what everyone then is complaining about is the fact that the thief isnt an insta-kill for them… how pathetic… how sad.

I didn’t say he killed him, i said he was killing him. The necro was extremely low when suddenly his group comes and wipes you.

As I said in the ehmry forum, I could make a video like that that “proves” that warrior bull charge + frenzy + hundred blades “is not good” by running around and doing it to the tanky guy in a group of enemies and then dying to the group of enemies. That is what this video showed.

Do heartseeker spam to people running offensive stats, not Knight’s, Soldier’s, etc.

<edit>
Whoops, that’s a mesmer. I didn’t zoom in so the icon looked like some spectral thing to me. Look at the mesmer’s health at 2:33. All that was done was heartseeker and we have the thief at almost full hp and the mesmer almost dead before his group comes in and saves him … and the thief is only missing 4 initiative.

Sebrent.3625:

I didn’t say he killed him, i said he was killing him.

You mean to say he was damaging the mesmer, and had them down to low health. Sure.

As I said in the ehmry forum, I could make a video like that that “proves” that warrior bull charge + frenzy + hundred blades “is not good” by running around and doing it to the tanky guy in a group of enemies and then dying to the group of enemies. That is what this video showed.

So that mesmer was the tanky guy in a group of enemies?

Do heartseeker spam to people running offensive stats, not Knight’s, Soldier’s, etc.

How are you supposed to find out who’s “tanky” without attacking them/seeing them take damage?

<edit>Whoops, that’s a mesmer. I didn’t zoom in so the icon looked like some spectral thing to me.

I thought the clones, shatters, confusions and all the pink stuff on the screen pretty much gave that away.

It proves what? Definitely not that Heartseeker is OP. If I wasn’t making a heartseeker only video I would have auto attacked that mesmer in the back. She barely tried to stop me. She just let me hit her in the back. I didn’t really even use stealth to get her to that low. So I don’t know what your trying to prove by using the mesmer example.

Whats a heartseeker spammer run I dont run full glass and that has nothing to do with the video that I have some soldiers armor on. I still am rocking 2.3k power, 53% chance to crit and 85 crit damage with a sigil of fire (around plus 8%-9% more damage and a sigil of force +5% damage) the damage is there so you can’t go that route and say I wasn’t specced to do damage.

I would have had 11k to 12k hp if I ran full zerker and I would have died much faster. Especially just heartseeker spamming which is dumb and that video shows how dumb that is.

Everyone else countered it why don’t you pull those examples out instead of the Mesmer at 2:33 that pretty much let me hit her in the back the whole time?

@Sebrent

Not saying you’re wrong about them saying that (god knows they’ve said a lot of things) but do you have a source? I don’t have one for mine, but I clearly remember saying that they balance for higher skill gameplay (this was a long long time ago… like shortly after release, so I don’t have a source for them saying that). Even if they are trying to balance at all levels… wouldn’t it be better for them to take higher levels of skillplay into more consideration than the lower ones?

They may have been speaking about having FOOS in GW2. Every game has some sort of noob class/weapon for people to get started on and feel powerful. This is a GOOD thing. At the same time at higher levels those early tatics shouldn’t work vs. a vet as there are far more powerful ways for a vet to learn… but those tatics take time and pratice to learn.

A good example of this is the warrior with 100b… it’ll down noobs in 1 second… but a vet will see it coming a mile and a half away. Same thing with thieves… sure you can be killed with GC basilisk venom haste spam… but a good player will be prepared for these and they won’t be an issue.

This video explains it very very well…

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/playing-like-a-designer-pt.-2

(skip to 2:50)

You don’t even need to be a bunker to stop these thieves from ganking you. I do it on every one of my 80’s multiple times a day EVERY day in WvW. Not one of them is bunker built (closest to bunker I play is condition damage build… which do have naturally higher survival). The squishier you are the faster you need to react though. If you can’t react quickly, then you’ll want to add more toughness/vit… but going full bunker is just a lazy player and a waste of a que spot in WvW.

If you’re having problems vs. catching them… bring some weapon/utilities with CC. Time it correctly and they’ll be stuck and downed very very fast.

IMO eles can be far harder to catch than a thief due to all of their condition removal + speed… and then there is always the kitten vapor form back inside the tower/keep/back to the zerg issue even if you do down them (dear god a-net fix this). But that’s a totally different issue.

Just on a side note… I’ve never died 1v1 due to a 2222 hearseeker spammer… ever. It doesn’t do much if any more damage than auto attack if the player is at high health. If you’re at under half hp, no utilities when a thief pops out… then lets be honest… any other class joining into the fight at that point would kill you as well. A thief might just make it happen a bit faster.

I’ll try to find it. I believe it was in one of their video interviews that was on the frontpage of guildwars2guru. If you find it before me, feel free to post it … date night tonight with the wife (I know, on server reset day, I’m a horrible person!).

As I’ve said before on several posts now, I personally am not having trouble fighting thieves 1v1. A group of 3 noobs that pop haste and spam heartseeker is a different story. I see those thief groups becoming somewhat common and it’s ridiculous. When a group of 3 noobs pops quickness on any other class I don’t care and still kill them. 3 Thieves is bloody annoying. Down one and they will get stealthed by their 2 buds and teleport away to be rezzed. It’s VERY easy to do. If it was hard to do, I wouldn’t mind and I’d commend them … like I do good engineers.

I disagree when caught 1/2 health by a non-thief. I roam solo a good bit and there are plenty of times a non-thief jumps me in the middle of me fighting someone and I escape quite easily. Thief is a different animal because they stealth enough to be very hard to control and they are far faster than me (i’m a bloody mesmer!). My one record on getting away on this is running all the way from the enemy’s north camp to just past Hills (east keep) before the Thief finally ran me down (with his friends dragging butt way behind) … and this was with Focus traited and Centaur runes. I don’t know how many times I crippled him and then pulled him back with Temporal Curtain but it was just never enough. I even tried changing directions and juking with clones but his speed was more than enough.

Elementalist is very fast and can be equally annoying, but when they ride the lightning is the best time to escape from them. You change direction and good day. Thief also has 1,200 range shadowstep, steal, etc.. If they are a sword thief, good God. I will admit to jealousy of Sword thieves. That’s a beautiful weapon.

I agree that full tanks are often useless, unless it’s something like a bubble guardian, hammer warrior, etc. intended to push a zerg, CC, cause mayhem, etc.. Those are some of the thankless heroes of WvW where most people are simply “duh, I hit stuff”, lol.