Guild Wars 2

Hi,

First of all, my Thief isn’t lvl 80 yet, so I don’t master this class…

But I fight many of them in PvP and WvW.

In PvP, I think it’s a balanced class. Sometimes, they just kill me (Engi) in one burst, sometimes I survive and kick their *. Well, it’s pretty fun, and I often say “gg, wp” when I meet a good thief.
You always have to be careful when you know there is a thief in the other team, but that’s how the thief works… surprise attack → down ? yes/no → win/loose.
If you let a thief finish his combo, you’re gonna have a very hard time !

In WvW, I think it’s a class designed for roaming and stealing tower. It’s pretty difficult to play like the others players, you have to be away from the rest of the group….
But honestly I think stealth duration should be reduced in WvW.
I’ve played vs Baruch Bay, and they have some very good “thief guilds” (hi OdS members ). They play stealth and condition damages, and the only way to take them down is to fight at 3 vs 1. (Thief combo : stealth, hit, flee, stealth, hit, stealth)

Unlike PvP, there is just too much space in WvW. When a thief use stealth in PvP, the arena is so small that you almost know where he is or where he will go. In WvW, it’s impossible ^^.
I’ve seen towers been captured with only 2 thiefs, since once they’re inside it, NPC aren’t able to focuse them and die because of the conditions dommages.

I think there stealth is fine they can use it only in combat for a sort time and they still geting dmg from melee and aoe atks. Sb is a nice teamwork utility they usualy use it to rez a downed ally but is not op like necros mesmers or engin rez utility sb need a bit nerd on radius. The only think i found op on thiefs is the stealth stomp

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Mrbig.8019:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Shadow-Refuge is definitely a very strong utility, but makes the game really interesting and not that predictable. I think without shadow-refuge, the thief loose much viability for a team.
But in general I agree with stealth being a problem. It should be decreased slightly in its duration.

I can agree with that.

But you also have to think that shadow refuge is a MUST HAVE for any thief and, as you said, the thief will lose too much viability without it, meaning its a SINGLE SKILL which makes the class viable ( even S/D doesn’t really offer that much in terms of team utility).

It’s pretty much the same with mesmers, forced to bring IoL and Portal + random stunbreaker mostly because other u-skills are , yes strong, but not on par.

With the thief that’s is not even the case: there’s nothing as strong as shadow refuge, you’re basically a moron if you don’t pick it and are severely hampering your team capabilities.

Back in beta an engi could stack 20 + secs of stealth ( now there’s a cap ) with smoke fields+blasts, i believe it’s time to nerf shadow refuge+ shortbow and balance the thief profession better, because currently we’re helded back by these things ( devs will always say, regarding thief sucking, " but hey, they have massive mobility/AoE + massive AoE stealth, they’re fine !!! " when in reality, we’re not).

I don’t know if the right way to go about it by nerfing SB, but maybe buffing other weapons to give them mobility and blast finishers or more ways to survive. Currently SB can do all this for the thief; be very mobile around a map, stealth you with pistol 5 and SB 2, tons of evade, and good damage in team fights. The reason it seems so good is because no other weapon set can compare. And no other weapons have as much synergy as the SB do.

The same goes for D/P. That is the perfect example of how a weapon set should be. Using every single weapon skill together at all times.

At launch all 4 of our melee weapon sets S/P, S/D, D/D and D/P were used. S/P, S/D and D/P used all of their skills, D/D didn’t use death blossom. Somewhere along the lines Anet has nerfed things to the extent that S/D which previously used everything but very sparingly used FS, uses primarily FS and doesn’t use Dancing dagger and sparingly Cloak and dagger. Going from 4/5 or 5/5 skills to 3/5 or 4/5 depending on how you look at it.D/D used 4/5 now uses 3/5…not that it is being used. S/P still gets use of all it’s skills but you don’t even get rewarded for getting PW’s through it’s considerably long wind up time, being walked through if they have stability, or that half the skill can be walked out of after the stun. That’s if retal doesn’t kill you. How did we go from 4 sets that were all usable and outcried OP by the world to essentially 2 sets where 1 uses less skills than it did before…
/balance.

I think thieves should be left as they are. That way more people will ditch the game with me when ESO comes out.

ensoriki.5789:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Mrbig.8019:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Shadow-Refuge is definitely a very strong utility, but makes the game really interesting and not that predictable. I think without shadow-refuge, the thief loose much viability for a team.
But in general I agree with stealth being a problem. It should be decreased slightly in its duration.

I can agree with that.

But you also have to think that shadow refuge is a MUST HAVE for any thief and, as you said, the thief will lose too much viability without it, meaning its a SINGLE SKILL which makes the class viable ( even S/D doesn’t really offer that much in terms of team utility).

It’s pretty much the same with mesmers, forced to bring IoL and Portal + random stunbreaker mostly because other u-skills are , yes strong, but not on par.

With the thief that’s is not even the case: there’s nothing as strong as shadow refuge, you’re basically a moron if you don’t pick it and are severely hampering your team capabilities.

Back in beta an engi could stack 20 + secs of stealth ( now there’s a cap ) with smoke fields+blasts, i believe it’s time to nerf shadow refuge+ shortbow and balance the thief profession better, because currently we’re helded back by these things ( devs will always say, regarding thief sucking, " but hey, they have massive mobility/AoE + massive AoE stealth, they’re fine !!! " when in reality, we’re not).

I don’t know if the right way to go about it by nerfing SB, but maybe buffing other weapons to give them mobility and blast finishers or more ways to survive. Currently SB can do all this for the thief; be very mobile around a map, stealth you with pistol 5 and SB 2, tons of evade, and good damage in team fights. The reason it seems so good is because no other weapon set can compare. And no other weapons have as much synergy as the SB do.

The same goes for D/P. That is the perfect example of how a weapon set should be. Using every single weapon skill together at all times.

At launch all 4 of our melee weapon sets S/P, S/D, D/D and D/P were used. S/P, S/D and D/P used all of their skills, D/D didn’t use death blossom. Somewhere along the lines Anet has nerfed things to the extent that S/D which previously used everything but very sparingly used FS, uses primarily FS and doesn’t use Dancing dagger and sparingly Cloak and dagger. Going from 4/5 or 5/5 skills to 3/5 or 4/5 depending on how you look at it.D/D used 4/5 now uses 3/5…not that it is being used. S/P still gets use of all it’s skills but you don’t even get rewarded for getting PW’s through it’s considerably long wind up time, being walked through if they have stability, or that half the skill can be walked out of after the stun. That’s if retal doesn’t kill you. How did we go from 4 sets that were all usable and outcried OP by the world to essentially 2 sets where 1 uses less skills than it did before…
/balance.

This. 100×. This.

Fortus.6175:

Asomal.6453:

Fortus.6175:

A class with at least 2 very viable builds, AMAZING!

meanwhile elementalist only viable one is D/D. EVEN MORE AMAZING!

Do you even S/D ele bro?

yes, and considering that if you want to do damage you need to be melee, everyone would rather use D/D for better CC and no fillers.

Once again, only viable build is D/D, water arcana with 10 in air for BttH

A perfect example of how NA players ignore other builds because in their meta only D/D is played. Definitely a bad sign for competition.

ensoriki.5789:

Nerf ranger shortbow 1.

pls

XII.9401:

I think thieves should be left as they are. That way more people will ditch the game with me when ESO comes out.

Bye bye * waves *

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Fortus.6175:

Asomal.6453:

Fortus.6175:

A class with at least 2 very viable builds, AMAZING!

meanwhile elementalist only viable one is D/D. EVEN MORE AMAZING!

Do you even S/D ele bro?

yes, and considering that if you want to do damage you need to be melee, everyone would rather use D/D for better CC and no fillers.

Once again, only viable build is D/D, water arcana with 10 in air for BttH

A perfect example of how NA players ignore other builds because in their meta only D/D is played. Definitely a bad sign for competition.

If they’re eventually going to fuse regions in pvp lots of lols incoming..

When you read gaming blocks or reviews about all games, it is pretty much a central theme most constructive criticism high lights out…that stealth in a player vs player game is usually a bad idea. It draws way too much controversy. Stealth in this game lives up to that. Even in PvE video’s I watched about some dungeons I had yet to play through, the commentator said about Arah, “Get your thief to blanket stealth all players and run past the starting mobs. At this point get your mesmer to blanket stealth again and anyone use a team speed buff. The mobs don’t affect end rewards, so there is no point fighting. Save it all for chest spawns and end bosses.” Again, stealth proving controversial as it allows players to simply just leave a lot of content out and reduce dungeons to elected mobs to fight, as opposed to an instance of the game to conquer.

In a real life situation, I’d rather fight a guy who set me on fire, even raise things from the dead than a guy who can simply just disappear and control the entire pace of the biffo according to when they wanna engage me and when they wanna break aggro from me and simply vanish.

Markus.9084:

Hi,

First of all, my Thief isn’t lvl 80 yet, so I don’t master this class…

But I fight many of them in PvP and WvW.

In PvP, I think it’s a balanced class. Sometimes, they just kill me (Engi) in one burst, sometimes I survive and kick their *. Well, it’s pretty fun, and I often say “gg, wp” when I meet a good thief.
You always have to be careful when you know there is a thief in the other team, but that’s how the thief works… surprise attack -> down ? yes/no -> win/loose.
If you let a thief finish his combo, you’re gonna have a very hard time !

In WvW, I think it’s a class designed for roaming and stealing tower. It’s pretty difficult to play like the others players, you have to be away from the rest of the group….
But honestly I think stealth duration should be reduced in WvW.
I’ve played vs Baruch Bay, and they have some very good “thief guilds” (hi OdS members ). They play stealth and condition damages, and the only way to take them down is to fight at 3 vs 1. (Thief combo : stealth, hit, flee, stealth, hit, stealth)

Unlike PvP, there is just too much space in WvW. When a thief use stealth in PvP, the arena is so small that you almost know where he is or where he will go. In WvW, it’s impossible ^^.
I’ve seen towers been captured with only 2 thiefs, since once they’re inside it, NPC aren’t able to focuse them and die because of the conditions dommages.

Honestly… Honestly…. you have no idea what you are talking about…
1- There is no such thing as reduce stealth duration, if you play a D/D thief, you have around 4 seconds to land a backstab off of a CnD (6 initiative), not cheap at all.
2- Condition builds will not one shot you.
3- If any thief attacks you, they will have 4 seconds of revealed where you can actually CC and try to burst them down before they vanish back into stealth.
4- Even if thieves stealth, you can keep the AOE going which still hits them.
5- Their Utility skills aren’t on very short cooldowns, so if they blow them up early, they either have to disengage or they will lose the fight.

So learn more about the class before going on with your suggestions -_-

lowfreq.3674:

currently thieves are able to hop in and out of stealth constantly along with the ability to teleport. it feels really overpowered.

We no longer can effectively teleport as of todays patch so once they make stealth automatically kill the thief after going into it, it will be a fair fight…

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

When you read gaming blocks or reviews about all games, it is pretty much a central theme most constructive criticism high lights out…that stealth in a player vs player game is usually a bad idea.

I have never played stealth classes myself as they have never fit my personal style of play. Having said that (or in this case, typed it), I have fought against stealth classes since my early days of Dark Age of Camelot and from the many gank-fests I experienced on the battlefields of the Old and New Frontiers, I do know that the ability to attack, fight, and kill someone without any personal risk to yourself does have a very high appeal to many people.

Thieves in Guild Wars 2 actually have three class mechanics at their disposal and not just the two that Arenanet asserts they do. They have steal, the initiative system, and stealth. And while it is true that all the other professions can obtain limited amounts of stealth from skills and combinations, only thieves have nearly unlimited access to stealth from a variety of skills and mechanics.

Stealth is a VERY powerful mechanic in an MMORPG. Many games have had their try at balancing the mechanic, but none have made it as powerful as it is in Guild Wars 2 and that, I believe, is the heart of the issue with Thieves. In games past (at least the ones I have played, your mileage may vary) stealth was a resource used to attack without warning or to enable a squishy melee class to get in close enough to unleash their attacks of opportunity. It has almost ALWAYS come with a downside or a price to it, such as not being able to attack while stealthed, being able to be knocked out of stealth, or even a small chance for the opponent to detect you while stealthed. Guild Wars 2 has NONE of these downsides or prices to their stealth.

Stealth in Guild Wars 2 actually has benefits to it rather than downsides. Thieves that stealth in Guild Wars 2 can cleanse conditions, heal themselves, gain might, gain initiative, move faster, blind, or gain 100% chance to crit on the next attack. Now granted, they cannot gain ALL of these benefits while stealthed, but still it shows there is no downside or price to pay for using stealth and instead there are HUGE benefits to using it and using it constantly.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that ONLY the Thief can break their own stealth. They don’t even break stealth if they attack and miss!! That’s right, if you dodge that initial attack or you just happen to have a block up when they strike, they get a free “do-over” and don’t break stealth. You cannot even knock them out of stealth by setting them on fire!! The only thing that breaks stealth on a Thief in Guild Wars 2 (other than a timer) is if they attack and actually do damage.

Arenanet was not even kind enough to give players a chance to detect a stealthed Thief. They are impervious to detection means while stealthed. All of the control is on their side with no chance at all for the opponent. NO other MMORPG that I have EVER played has stealth been such a powerful mechanic. When a Thief stealths in Guild Wars 2, they hold all the cards and you as their opponent hold only one: randomly swing or use your skills and hope you hit them. This is a HUGE imbalance and I will never understand why Arenanet thought it would be good idea. Certainly they could have at least LOOKED at some other games and seen how stealth was implemented to see the good and the bad that goes with it. Perhaps there is some marketing information out there that I am not aware of the shows that more people prefer to be able to attack, fight, and kill people without any personal risk to themselves than prefer to actually engage in epic battles and duels with one another. Who knows?!

Sadly, stealth in this game comes equipped with a red cloak with a large letter “S” on it and given how it has been implemented, I don’t really see any way that power is going to be mitigated. Certainly the “revealed” condition is a good start, but again that condition is all on the control of the Thief. They could possibly make stealth break on damage, or at least give us a small chance at detection, but I don’t see them going that way either.

For now, I just remember that when I get ganked by a Thief that if and when I die, it is not due to lack of skill but an imbalance that Arenanet has purposefully implemented in their stealth mechanic. On the other hand, when I do actually kill a Thief, I can also glow with satisfaction that I have beaten the intent of the developers and triumphed where I should not have been allowed to.

\rant off

Veldan.4637:

ozzero.3892:

if u take away stealth from thief how the hell he can put dmg to you?

the way every other class does

did you play thief? dont think so… I dont understand you ppl this is THIEF, ROUGE you must have stealth. There is a Warrior class if u wanna play without stealth

SmoothHussler.6387:

MightyMe.1356:

Currently Necromancers are able to stack bleeding + poison + dmg on fear with their marks constantly along with the ability to have another hp bar and use plauge for massive dmg. it feels really overpowered.

Totally understand why I see so many necros in pvp now as opposed to thieves. Thanks for this revelation.

Thieves pubstomp extremely well and deal tons of (single target) damage, which is great in disorganized games but much worse in games where people cooperate, peel and CC for each other.

ozzero.3892:

Its thief! This class is design to have stealth. In wow rouges have infinite stealth and no one is crying, and this is SPVP forum ye? and all maps are conquest in stealth you can’t cap points so why its OP? if u take away stealth from thief how the hell he can put dmg to you?
one more thing shadow refuge isnt op as long as u have aoe dmg/fear/5 skill on mesmer GS/mele auto attack(watch the animation)

I am not talking about shadow refuge. im talking about dagger pistol thieves. the blind field and then heart seeker into stealth. sorry for not making that clear.

I think as long as stealth is this spammable it should end when you take damage..

Flowerpower.6795:

I think as long as stealth is this spammable it should end when you take damage..

what’s the point of shadowrefuge then?

“Its thief! This class is design to have stealth. In wow rouges have infinite stealth and no one is crying, and this is SPVP forum ye? and all maps are conquest in stealth you can’t cap points so why its OP? if u take away stealth from thief how the hell he can put dmg to you?
one more thing shadow refuge isnt op as long as u have aoe dmg/fear/5 skill on mesmer GS/mele auto attack(watch the animation)”

Let me rewrite this quickly to illustrate a point;

Its thief! This class is design to have stealth. In wow (We’re not talking about WoW.) rouges have infinite stealth and no one is crying, and this is SPVP forum ye? and all maps are conquest in stealth you can’t cap(You still get points for stomps, so they can’t be so easily discarded.) points so why its OP?(Read Michaeas post.) if u take away stealth from thief how the hell he can put dmg to you? (The same way they do when not in stealth.)
one more thing shadow refuge isnt op as long as u have aoe dmg(Not all classes have AoE damage. Hell, my mesmer does even use clones, let alone staff. The stealthed area of Shadow refuge is larger than 90 % of AoE skills. If you stand on the edge of your stealth, it will miss you.))/fear (Only two classes have this.)/5 skill on mesmer( Only works if your on dead flat ground and even then it will only work if it pushes them out of their stealth field.) GS/mele auto attack(Only if you hit them. They have increased movement while in stealth, so they hold the advantage to avoid being hit.)(watch the animation)

As you can see, all of your rebuts to stealth are very situation based at best. At worst, the player puts a skill into cool down. Just say’n.

Azraeel.1238:

2- Condition builds will not one shot you.
3- If any thief attacks you, they will have 4 seconds of revealed where you can actually CC and try to burst them down before they vanish back into stealth.
4- Even if thieves stealth, you can keep the AOE going which still hits them.
5- Their Utility skills aren’t on very short cooldowns, so if they blow them up early, they either have to disengage or they will lose the fight.

Learn more about the thing called “reading”….

2) The “kill in one combo” was in the PvP section of my comment… Of course those Thiefs don’t play with a condition build, unlike thiefs I’ve seen in WvW.

3)-5) that’s the point… they launch their skills during the first 2 second and then disengage and run away (with a bow for example). Of course we burst them, but most of the time it’s not enough to kill them ( and anyway killing someone in 4 sec require a very specific build). Moreover, thanks to Shadow’s Rejuvenation, they regain their hp..

4) AOE ? Ok in PvP, where the area is small… I agree with you, it works.
But in WvW the problem is that there is too many possibilities, too much space. Does the stealthed thief turn right ? left ? is he still running ? maybe not ?
Do you see what I mean ?

I can see your point about the open space in WvW, Markus. It does make stealth more powerful. Also, the thing to remember about stealth is, that it is a form of psychological CC that has no defense against other than practised self control. So for a lot of new or learning players, stealth is a heck of a lot harder to deal with than a block or evade, because it carries with it that uncertainty and momentary pause of indecision. And that can aid a skilled thief towards a very quick and easy win.

As a stealth based thief myself, I feel that the revealed debuff is too short. It is all too easy to throw a dodge in those 4 seconds, making it very difficult for anyone to put down any CC on you. Personally, I would be happy with an increase to 5-6 seconds. It would not hamper skilled thieves too much and would force mediocre thieves to practise hard to compensate. It is not dificult to learn how to use stealth offensively, but with an increased debuff it would require more skill to use it defensively.

I would not want to see reveal on damage, because that would render stealth next to useless. We still take damage while stealthed and it is easy enough for someone to get the odd hit or two on you. If damage revealed us every profession would have a way of removing our main damage and defense easily, and when we are already very squishy this would dramatically alter our effectiveness for the worst.

It is a difficult mechanic to get right, but to be honest, I think how it is now is not bad. It just needs some tweaking to get it in a place that will please the majority of players. It will never be right for everyone, ever.

Regarding steal. I use it quite often and I would say that 50% of the time I get something useful and the other 50% of the time I get something that is ok but could be better. I have never got anything that is useless. That said, I would rather not see that many damage only items. The items that I use most, and am happiest to get, are utility items, such as stealth, all buffs, regen, etc. Some damage items I like, such as the gunk, because not only does it give a variety of conditions, but it creates a useful field to create combos with. The items I am not so fussed about are things like the axe (pure damage) or scrap of metal (bleeds). I would rather see these damage only items altered, so that they can offer you more than just extra damage.

The thief itself can produce a decent amount of damage on its own, it doesn’t need a random chance for a little bit more. So, I would like to see more useful functions added to some of the existing items, that currently only deal damage. Then I would be completely happy with Steal.

As it stands there is no downside or risk to stealthing. Thieves can trait for health / ini regen while stealthed; they can get 100% crit chance/ condition removal in stealth and there is no way to interrupt the mechanic aside from running or maybe stun if you have access to that skill(they can also have +50% movement speed in stealth). Its too much; there is no downside. At least classes like the rogue in wow would be revealed if hit, the thief needs something similar in this game, a chance to waste the initiative it cost to stealth in the first place instead of mindless stealth spam, some sort of risk reward.

I remember old times of early Vanilla WoW where rogues could open on you from stealth with a stun and then proceed to kill you while timing their attacks so that you could do a jack kitten from 100% to 0% HP. You were literally stunned for the entire duration, hence the stunlock. This was later nerfed with dimishing returns and such but I remember what rogues used to reply in all the QQ threads concering this issue. “This is how rogues work. Rogues are fine. Learn to play your class!”. The imbalance of that particular case would be a laughing absurd in modern day of MMO balancing but yet it was “fine” and all rogues were clearly outplaying their opponents! L2P! I bow to all those skilled players who roam as thieves in WvW and play cat and mouse with entire groups of people thanks to stealth mechanic. Such a mastery indeed!

Unfortunately in the current Meta is it almost impossible to drop someone from full to 0 with that combo anymore. On the podcast “Revealed” it was pretty much said and I agree, with the mug and CnD nerf, that 1 hit combo is simply not viable.

People need to stop with this “they can jump in a zerg and survive” well SO WHAT? they can spy thats their thing they are not actually doing any significantly damage while avoiding fights in stealth. Its not big deal its what thieves do! lets put it this way if thieves didn’t had stealth why would anyone use a thief over a warrior? they wouldn’t.

To solve class problems:

-Thieves cant enter stealth while in combat unless using special utility skills with high CD

-Abilities that let you enter stealth while in combat, like cloak and dagger should let you enter stealth without the need to hit anyone

-Stealth has a longer CD

-All kind of damage and blocks should reveal the thief

-Reduce draastically the burst damage of abilities like backstab, its not balaced to practically OHKO someone from stealth, its OP.

-Stealth duration its increased 60%, so thieves have more chance of run or to do something else while in stealth.

Awe.1096:

I remember old times of early Vanilla WoW where rogues could open on you from stealth with a stun and then proceed to kill you while timing their attacks so that you could do a jack kitten from 100% to 0% HP. You were literally stunned for the entire duration, hence the stunlock. This was later nerfed with dimishing returns and such but I remember what rogues used to reply in all the QQ threads concering this issue. “This is how rogues work. Rogues are fine. Learn to play your class!”. The imbalance of that particular case would be a laughing absurd in modern day of MMO balancing but yet it was “fine” and all rogues were clearly outplaying their opponents! L2P! I bow to all those skilled players who roam as thieves in WvW and play cat and mouse with entire groups of people thanks to stealth mechanic. Such a mastery indeed!

Yes, then they got balanced and guees what, no one wanted to play rougues on wow anymore, went for paladines and death knights, shadow priest or whatever was OP at the moment, then the trully skillful rougues mastered the class in a fair way.

I hope that this will be the same here.

74 pages of being ignored as the majority player base! Go broken class!/Anet dev playing thief class!

XII.9401:

74 pages of being ignored as the majority player base! Go broken class!/Anet dev playing thief class!

Name 1 dev that plays thief. Btw, this is 74 pages of Anet not giving a crap about thieves.

It’s funny that thieves get the most hate from everyone even still now that they can’t burst anyone (despite uplevels) from 100-0 anymore and die everywhere but roaming (where they are top tier). Thieves could do 0 damage and still people would cry. People want to zerg over everything and when they find something that they can’t zerg, it’s op need nerf.

randomfightfan.4091:

XII.9401:

74 pages of being ignored as the majority player base! Go broken class!/Anet dev playing thief class!

Name 1 dev that plays thief. Btw, this is 74 pages of Anet not giving a crap about thieves.

It’s funny that thieves get the most hate from everyone even still now that they can’t burst anyone (despite uplevels) from 100-0 anymore and die everywhere but roaming (where they are top tier). Thieves could do 0 damage and still people would cry. People want to zerg over everything and when they find something that they can’t zerg, it’s op need nerf.

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

randomfightfan.4091:

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

They were lies, and its not false information actually i have a thief so i really know how the things work, you just need to catch someone off guard while you are in stealth and VOILA backstab him with the stone poison keep attacking with your autoattack, if he is not dead yet, spam heart seeker, then profit.

The other player has 0 defenses to that, and if for some stupid reason you fail that cheap abuse of backstab then you can simply re stealth and try again with all your stealth utilities and skills, you can escape and restore your health to full if you are in trouble, and then try again your cheap backstab spam.

I’ll just leave this here, this thread is a dumpster anyway.

I stopped reading at “other player has 0 defenses to that.” If you truly believe that’s true then you have no idea how to play this game or what other classes can do or what a stun breaker is or what aiges is etc.etc.etc.

randomfightfan.4091:

I stopped reading at “other player has 0 defenses to that.” If you truly believe that’s true then you have no idea how to play this game or what other classes can do or what a stun breaker is or what aiges is etc.etc.etc.

I stopped reading at “i stopped reading” bs.

Fenrir.5493:

randomfightfan.4091:

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

They were lies, and its not false information actually i have a thief so i really know how the things work, you just need to catch someone off guard while you are in stealth and VOILA backstab him with the stone poison keep attacking with your autoattack, if he is not dead yet, spam heart seeker, then profit.

The other player has 0 defenses to that, and if for some stupid reason you fail that cheap abuse of backstab then you can simply re stealth and try again with all your stealth utilities and skills, you can escape and restore your health to full if you are in trouble, and then try again your cheap backstab spam.

Here’s your defenses:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_breaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

I think people have options.

lol. owned
Message Body length must at least be 15.

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

randomfightfan.4091:

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

They were lies, and its not false information actually i have a thief so i really know how the things work, you just need to catch someone off guard while you are in stealth and VOILA backstab him with the stone poison keep attacking with your autoattack, if he is not dead yet, spam heart seeker, then profit.

The other player has 0 defenses to that, and if for some stupid reason you fail that cheap abuse of backstab then you can simply re stealth and try again with all your stealth utilities and skills, you can escape and restore your health to full if you are in trouble, and then try again your cheap backstab spam.

Here’s your defenses:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_breaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

I think people have options.

So, you need to be a fortune teller or able to see the future in order to prevent someone from one shot you from stealth…. seems reasonable.

if ur one shot from stealth u have a bad build or are upscaled. literally. lol. and the thief has a bad build too. and if ur a good player…which is what pvp is really for (non new players) then you should be able to time it. the only time u cant is when shadow refuge is used adn that is basically a minute cooldown

I wish some people cared about PvE balance. I hear a few people play that too.

yeah pve i never realized how bad my thief was until i maxed my gaurdian necro and warrior. :P

Fenrir.5493:

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

randomfightfan.4091:

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

They were lies, and its not false information actually i have a thief so i really know how the things work, you just need to catch someone off guard while you are in stealth and VOILA backstab him with the stone poison keep attacking with your autoattack, if he is not dead yet, spam heart seeker, then profit.

The other player has 0 defenses to that, and if for some stupid reason you fail that cheap abuse of backstab then you can simply re stealth and try again with all your stealth utilities and skills, you can escape and restore your health to full if you are in trouble, and then try again your cheap backstab spam.

Here’s your defenses:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_breaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

I think people have options.

So, you need to be a fortune teller or able to see the future in order to prevent someone from one shot you from stealth…. seems reasonable.

No. You need logic.
Anything X/D will need to land CnD to stealth so kite the user and they’ll either have to use a utility to stealth, and those are on 30+ cooldowns. Hide in Shadow and Blinding Powder last 3 seconds, as with CnD and CnD can’t be used before the stealth ends naturally. In other words. Make yourself hard to hit for 3 seconds.
As for Shadow Refuge, it can last up to 12 second but it’s pretty obvious when it’s used. It also is one of the most counterable stealths because it confines the user to a small space and if they leave or are forced out via knockback the user will be stuck with Revealed.
D/P is probably thief’s strongest set, despite being very initiative hungry. It can stack stealth via leap finisher into its smoke field, however if its Heartseeker hits something it’ll instantly lose that stealth when stacking so a lot more difficult to stack while engaged. Though stackable, each individual leap is worth 3 seconds.

On to Backstab. Backstab has an 806 damage rating. Half the strength of 100blades in one shot and it’s users commonly use a trait to ensure the skill will always crit. However the skill is short range and it’s damage is halved if it strikes the front of the target. Unless it’s the initial strike, the thief will have 3 seconds to land it, which can be diffcult if the target takes preventative measures. In a fight, when a D/x thief stealths, 9/10 times they are going to try to get behind you. A warning sign for an initial strike backstab is Basilisk Venom. If you’re toon turns grey, that’s your cue to pop a stunbreak. If performed correctly the thief will have blown his opening strike and attack buff utilities they had used in preparation. In addition, it’s rare that a backstab or even a backstab combo can one shot a player, and it’s impossible against players that aren’t going glass cannon.

The long and short of it is, most stealths last 3 seconds, backstab only hits high from behind, and you should be ready to react in WvW at anytime, not just because or thieves, but because anything can come over the hill and gank you.

Also a pro tip. Run an armour set with Toughness in it. Gear like Knight’s and Soldier’s will make you so much more useful to your server then Berserker’s.

You remind me of someone named Columba.

“Class balance philosophy according to A-net…
Thief:
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.
Seems about right on with what they want theif to do and what they are now…
Ele
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elementalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.”

These definitions are pointless when compared to the original statement, “All professions can play all rolls if they wish to. If they prefer D.P.S or SUPPORT or BALANCED..they can trait themselves accordingly.” As soon as you start giving a profession an end intention, that negates the whole purpose of the original end intention that all classes can play all roles. Which only highlights another original statement, “Play your way.” Should more fairly be represented with, “Play your way…but you’ll probably do better if you play our way.”

3,704 post here. Are we getting the point yet?

Please, I know it has been brought out quite a few times, but please, change Signet of Malice.
Either make it life absorption or change the mechanic so that it heals you based on the conditions you or your opponent have, or something like that, as it is right now it just feels wrong to use it and it synergies well with only really few specific builds

Make it so the thief doesn’t have to be kitten gymnast in order to land meagre damage on properly spec’d toons. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Caed-S-D-Semi-and-Finals-1v1-tournament/first#post2221454

Playing a thief, I have noticed that enemies with a ranged attack continue to attack you while you are stealthed. Not just finishing the attack they are on, and not just getting caught in an aoe, but continuing to attack you as if there was no stealth at all. It makes stealth nearly useless in PvE because many enemies have a ranged attack.

Talli Burns.9576:

Playing a thief, I have noticed that enemies with a ranged attack continue to attack you while you are stealthed. Not just finishing the attack they are on, and not just getting caught in an aoe, but continuing to attack you as if there was no stealth at all. It makes stealth nearly useless in PvE because many enemies have a ranged attack.

because of that reason I never understood why some players are telling stealth is our defense unless you have condition removal on stealth

Thieves are not OP in fact we got nerfed so many times we are good at one thing that is trolling in 2 forms one is extreme single target spike in wvw and stealth troll which we cant do 1 attack because if we stopped spamming Initiative for stealth we would be dead in a second. not to mention after spamming Initiative for stealth we have none left over to attack . If thief ever does land a attack we got REVEAL and are dead unless its 1v1 against any ok players. So people want to nerf thieves again so we cant even be good at anything ….really? why not just ask for you class to be buffed and thief class to be removed all together save the time nerfing the class into extinction; sry but that’s basically what your asking for. People don’t even look at the other classes D/D ele, Beast Master ranger, Bunker/ retaliation guard, Ber Mesmer which have same extreme advantages and WAY more use in pvp, wvw, and pve. Thieves have roam wvw THAT’S IT we are terrible in pvp and pve. IMO in you want to see less thieves in wvw roaming then make them good at something else…..anything else really.

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

randomfightfan.4091:

Fenrir.5493:

LIES.

Thieves is the most broken class, they rely on their cheap stealth + backtab to do something,, they can perma stealth and they can be loosing the battle but oh wait, he just restarted the battle again,, and oh com on! he can inmovilise me while he is doing me his backstab, talking about cheap mechanics….

Well obviously you’ve never played a thief b/c you’re just mindlessly complaining for the sake of complaining while also spouting false information. Also exactly what part of what I said was a lie? The question I asked or me saying people complain about thief because they can go invisible? Lastly l2grammar.

Your post really reminded me of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

They were lies, and its not false information actually i have a thief so i really know how the things work, you just need to catch someone off guard while you are in stealth and VOILA backstab him with the stone poison keep attacking with your autoattack, if he is not dead yet, spam heart seeker, then profit.

The other player has 0 defenses to that, and if for some stupid reason you fail that cheap abuse of backstab then you can simply re stealth and try again with all your stealth utilities and skills, you can escape and restore your health to full if you are in trouble, and then try again your cheap backstab spam.

Here’s your defenses:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_breaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toughness
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear

I think people have options.

So, you need to be a fortune teller or able to see the future in order to prevent someone from one shot you from stealth…. seems reasonable.

No. You need logic.
Anything X/D will need to land CnD to stealth so kite the user and they’ll either have to use a utility to stealth, and those are on 30+ cooldowns. Hide in Shadow and Blinding Powder last 3 seconds, as with CnD and CnD can’t be used before the stealth ends naturally. In other words. Make yourself hard to hit for 3 seconds.
As for Shadow Refuge, it can last up to 12 second but it’s pretty obvious when it’s used. It also is one of the most counterable stealths because it confines the user to a small space and if they leave or are forced out via knockback the user will be stuck with Revealed.
D/P is probably thief’s strongest set, despite being very initiative hungry. It can stack stealth via leap finisher into its smoke field, however if its Heartseeker hits something it’ll instantly lose that stealth when stacking so a lot more difficult to stack while engaged. Though stackable, each individual leap is worth 3 seconds.

On to Backstab. Backstab has an 806 damage rating. Half the strength of 100blades in one shot and it’s users commonly use a trait to ensure the skill will always crit. However the skill is short range and it’s damage is halved if it strikes the front of the target. Unless it’s the initial strike, the thief will have 3 seconds to land it, which can be diffcult if the target takes preventative measures. In a fight, when a D/x thief stealths, 9/10 times they are going to try to get behind you. A warning sign for an initial strike backstab is Basilisk Venom. If you’re toon turns grey, that’s your cue to pop a stunbreak. If performed correctly the thief will have blown his opening strike and attack buff utilities they had used in preparation. In addition, it’s rare that a backstab or even a backstab combo can one shot a player, and it’s impossible against players that aren’t going glass cannon.

The long and short of it is, most stealths last 3 seconds, backstab only hits high from behind, and you should be ready to react in WvW at anytime, not just because or thieves, but because anything can come over the hill and gank you.

Also a pro tip. Run an armour set with Toughness in it. Gear like Knight’s and Soldier’s will make you so much more useful to your server then Berserker’s.

You remind me of someone named Columba.

Cool..play a non stealth class and lets see you predict the ambush.

Also, Why should everyone else run toughness gear to combat a single class while the thief can get away with being a glass cannon? This is GUild wars 2 not Thief wars 2 where everyone has to build their class around your own..