Guild Wars 2

XII.9401:

Cool..play a non stealth class and lets see you predict the ambush.

Also, Why should everyone else run toughness gear to combat a single class while the thief can get away with being a glass cannon? This is GUild wars 2 not Thief wars 2 where everyone has to build their class around your own..

Toughness gear is not meant to counter specifically thieves, but bursts in general. You may find this fact shocking, but other clases are able to perform high bursts too (even higher bursts than thieves). Those clases also choose to equip berserker gear.

Your obsession with thieves (since you are a well known thief-hater) tricks your mind into believing that the game, the mechanics and everything else favors thieves and that all things revolve around them. Burst your hate bubble and you may realize that thieves are not as golden as you believe.

XII.9401:

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

So, you need to be a fortune teller or able to see the future in order to prevent someone from one shot you from stealth…. seems reasonable.

No. You need logic.
Anything X/D will need to land CnD to stealth so kite the user and they’ll either have to use a utility to stealth, and those are on 30+ cooldowns. Hide in Shadow and Blinding Powder last 3 seconds, as with CnD and CnD can’t be used before the stealth ends naturally. In other words. Make yourself hard to hit for 3 seconds.
As for Shadow Refuge, it can last up to 12 second but it’s pretty obvious when it’s used. It also is one of the most counterable stealths because it confines the user to a small space and if they leave or are forced out via knockback the user will be stuck with Revealed.
D/P is probably thief’s strongest set, despite being very initiative hungry. It can stack stealth via leap finisher into its smoke field, however if its Heartseeker hits something it’ll instantly lose that stealth when stacking so a lot more difficult to stack while engaged. Though stackable, each individual leap is worth 3 seconds.

On to Backstab. Backstab has an 806 damage rating. Half the strength of 100blades in one shot and it’s users commonly use a trait to ensure the skill will always crit. However the skill is short range and it’s damage is halved if it strikes the front of the target. Unless it’s the initial strike, the thief will have 3 seconds to land it, which can be diffcult if the target takes preventative measures. In a fight, when a D/x thief stealths, 9/10 times they are going to try to get behind you. A warning sign for an initial strike backstab is Basilisk Venom. If you’re toon turns grey, that’s your cue to pop a stunbreak. If performed correctly the thief will have blown his opening strike and attack buff utilities they had used in preparation. In addition, it’s rare that a backstab or even a backstab combo can one shot a player, and it’s impossible against players that aren’t going glass cannon.

The long and short of it is, most stealths last 3 seconds, backstab only hits high from behind, and you should be ready to react in WvW at anytime, not just because or thieves, but because anything can come over the hill and gank you.

Also a pro tip. Run an armour set with Toughness in it. Gear like Knight’s and Soldier’s will make you so much more useful to your server then Berserker’s.

You remind me of someone named Columba.

Cool..play a non stealth class and lets see you predict the ambush.

Also, Why should everyone else run toughness gear to combat a single class while the thief can get away with being a glass cannon? This is GUild wars 2 not Thief wars 2 where everyone has to build their class around your own..

I run gear like Knight’s and Rabid on my 80s, and I’ve seen what a difference it can make. A 20 man Zerg of players wearing Soldiers can rofl stomp an 40 man zerg of players running Zerker’s. Small and short of it, if you aren’t specced into survival in WvW, you’re doing your server a disservice, you’re just rally bait and the zerg would be better off without you.

i am very sure the thief pve community won’t mind another few more nerfs…
i am really wondering how useless a class can be in a party
not good dps+not very good party buffs+not good aoe healing…

from today on, they can play with themselves (only thief parties) or solo !

“Cool..play a non stealth class and lets see you predict the ambush.”

As a thief, i’ve fought lots of good players who do exactly that. Engineers block (3 sec toolkit shield + 2 sec regular shield + 3 sec elixir f = 8 seconds invulnerability), Eles use their stun aura, mesmers stand inside their chaos storm, warriors use hammer knockdown etc. Or simply doge. A thief has max 3-4 seconds of stealth, so he will attack within that time frame. Keep moving. Run in circles to make it difficult for the thief to land his backstab. Try not to be predictable in your movement. But don’t just stand around or move slowly backwards, like so many people still do. (And maybe some advice for rangers or other pet classes: Keep your pet close to you – hitting the pet instead of the player is a huge waste of a backstab and initative.)
There are counters to thieves.
And if caught outside of stealth, they are extremely squishy. So stealth and fast reflexes are their only protection – they are “high risk, high reward” which is what I really like about them, and i hope Anet keeps them that way.
They might be difficult to adapt to, if you are fighting against them, but other classes can be tough too. Like those dagger-eles or tanky beastmaster Rangers with permanent regeneration and protection. Or Mesmers. Or unkillable guardians.
And I hope no one running around solo in wvw as a glascannon complains about getting downed by a roaming thief. Because that’s just asking for it…

Churning Earth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Hundred Blades- Damage is more than thieves backstab, but still comparable
Fire Grab- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Eviscerate- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Dragons tooth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
A bunch of other classes skills too that are similiar to thieves backstab damage, because im too lazy to name them ALL.

Disparity- All the other classes high hitting skills require A)conditional situations. ie; Dragons tooth needs an immobilize, churning earth needs lightning flash, fire grab needs close range + burning condition, ECT. B ) No class besides mesmer and thief can utilize stealth to land their attacks. C) No other class besides thief can handle EXTREME pressure! Glass cannon thieves can survive upwards of a ZERG. D) Every other class besides thief ACTUALLY HAS A COOLDOWN………. The thieves backstab has NO cooldown!!!! Technically it does, as a reveal of 3s prevents re stealth. So, its safe to say thieves Backstab has a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN. Ill let you guys think about that.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Churning Earth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Hundred Blades- Damage is more than thieves backstab, but still comparable
Fire Grab- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Eviscerate- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
Dragons tooth- Damage is similiar to thieves backstab
A bunch of other classes skills too that are similiar to thieves backstab damage, because im too lazy to name them ALL.

Disparity- All the other classes high hitting skills require A)conditional situations. ie; Dragons tooth needs an immobilize, churning earth needs lightning flash, fire grab needs close range + burning condition, ECT. B ) No class besides mesmer and thief can utilize stealth to land their attacks. C) No other class besides thief can handle EXTREME pressure! Glass cannon thieves can survive upwards of a ZERG. D) Every other class besides thief ACTUALLY HAS A COOLDOWN………. The thieves backstab has NO cooldown!!!! Technically it does, as a reveal of 3s prevents re stealth. So, its safe to say thieves Backstab has a THREE SECOND COOLDOWN. Ill let you guys think about that.

Wow. Where to start. So backstab has no requirements? Don’t need to be in stealth? Don’t need melee range? Don’t need position behind enemy? All the reqs you listed are false. You can cast tooth and churning without cc. You cannot backstab without the the things I mentioned. You don’t know what requirement means I think. Also check YouTube for videos of many classes surviving zergs. Eles are better than thieves even. As for cooldowns going into stealth require a utility with CDs or initiative which is a global weapon cooldown.

“Glass cannon thieves can survive upwards of a ZERG.”

If you mean standing in the combined AoE of a zerg, then: No, they can’t.
They can, of course, shadowstep away and go into stealth. But that’s just what thieves do. As of now, in wvw they simply are the “roaming” class. Are they good at it? I’d say yes, probably better than most other classes (still depends on individual player skill, though).
But what I don’t get is this: Why should all classes and all builds be viable for every role and situation?
If you’re a glasscannon staff ele and get caught alone out in the open, you’re pretty much dead, no matter how skilled you might be. But that’s because you’re just not built for that situation.
A thief can’t fight in the frontline of a massive zerg battle like tanky warriors or guardians can. In a siege, they can’t pick of distant targets like a berserker Ranger or spam grenades like an engineer.
So the only situation, where thieves can become a problem, is when you meet them alone out in the field, which can easily be avoided by running with a group (or a zerg) or trying to build a balanced character, that is suited for a 1v1. Because most thieves themselves are build that way. And like mentioned earlier, they have to sacrifice other benefits for that and are useless in other roles.

This whole thread makes me laugh. Anet asked us about changes for the class, positively and to get some input for how the class feels and plays. Instead this turned into what 90% of what the rest of the forums are… thief hate.

Just close this thread, it is turning into the general forums again. After reading this, I honestly feel like a nerf is coming this next patch, instead of a buff/fix.

So long my favorite class, I <3 you!

The class is still broken one year into the game.

XII.9401:

The class is still broken one year into the game.

yes, they are spamming skills !

Since the riposte change 25% to 50% i play a p/p thief. And therefore my feedback is regarding p/p only. What i think about the p/p skills by skil number:

1. is ok. I’m not a fan of physical and condition damage on a skill but as i said it’s ok.
2. the duration of vulnerability is too short. Either increase the time or remove it and add cc on it.
3. This is my main skill. The damage could be tweaked maybe +10% or 20%. Or change it to 5 bullets with more damage and maybe with bleeding damage as well. The skill sometimes fails to hit in PVE group events where the creature dies faster then your bullets hit so your 8 bullets are often a waste. I would prefer something like the stealthed #1 burst skill without the bleeding.
4. I don’t use this much it’s kind of useless in PVE
5. Maybe OP but that OP is sometimes needed.

Since a thief does not support via boons. And stealth is rather useless. The thief should be the close and range damage king.

raubvogel.5071:

Since the riposte change 25% to 50% i play a p/p thief. And therefore my feedback is regarding p/p only. What i think about the p/p skills by skil number:

1. is ok. I’m not a fan of physical and condition damage on a skill but as i said it’s ok.
2. the duration of vulnerability is too short. Either increase the time or remove it and add cc on it.
3. This is my main skill. The damage could be tweaked maybe +10% or 20%. Or change it to 5 bullets with more damage and maybe with bleeding damage as well. The skill sometimes fails to hit in PVE group events where the creature dies faster then your bullets hit so your 8 bullets are often a waste. I would prefer something like the stealthed #1 burst skill without the bleeding.
4. I don’t use this much it’s kind of useless in PVE
5. Maybe OP but that OP is sometimes needed.

Since a thief does not support via boons. And stealth is rather useless. The thief should be the close and range damage king.

The sad truth is, the thief is in the most aspects a broken class, in Deff, Off, skills and many traits.
The base dmg of the range weapons is very low, and they have no support skills.
Unload is the only suitable skill, weak but better then the rest.

As a long time Thief aficionado, some criticisms I have for the class would be:

• Steal: I don’t really see the Steal mechanic as successful in terms of gameplay; it’s powerful in usage, without a doubt. However, it’s used as a mobility & set-up tool more than anything; the actual stealing portion of the ability (acquiring the single use item/skill from your target) is probably the last reason anyone uses Steal. For a mechanic that’s supposed to define the class, it really fails to deliver when it comes to a rewarding gameplay experience.

The mechanic works well in when playing alone or in small-scale PvE excursions, but in larger-scale PvE, as well as sPvP, tPvP, and WvW, the entire concept behind mechanic is completely lost.

My two cents: I believe it would make more sense if Steal worked more along the lines of “stealing” a unique buff/boon from your target, based on what they are, rather than an item or skill. It would be more universally useful for its intended purposes in all gameplay outlets, easier to balance, and probably more fun for the player, while not necessarily being any more or less powerful in gameplay.

• Venom: Venoms, with the exception of Basilisk Venom, are all pretty lackluster outside being used to give yourself Might stacks via Venomous Strength. The conditions they cause are usually just overridden by classes who are more apt at applying conditions (or in the case of Spider’s Venom, the Thief itself) and their effect goes unnoticed. As result, they’re not very fun in usage for the Thief and not very useful in multiplayer situations. On top of this, they lack any animations whatsoever.

My two cents: Venoms suffer in functionality as well as failing to grant a rewarding gameplay experience to the player. Perhaps Venoms should be unique debuffs or effects that work better in the presence of other conditions, or entirely new mechanics.

Ex: This venom makes your target more susceptible to poison. Poison causes an additional X% damage to the afflicted target for Y seconds.

Soap.6124:

As a long time Thief aficionado, some criticisms I have for the class would be:

• Steal: I don’t really see the Steal mechanic as successful in terms of gameplay; it’s powerful in usage, without a doubt. However, it’s used as a mobility & set-up tool more than anything; the actual stealing portion of the ability (acquiring the single use item/skill from your target) is probably the last reason anyone uses Steal. For a mechanic that’s supposed to define the class, it really fails to deliver when it comes to a rewarding gameplay experience.

The mechanic works well in when playing alone or in small-scale PvE excursions, but in larger-scale PvE, as well as sPvP, tPvP, and WvW, the entire concept behind mechanic is completely lost.

My two cents: I believe it would make more sense if Steal worked more along the lines of “stealing” a unique buff/boon from your target, based on what they are, rather than an item or skill. It would be more universally useful for its intended purposes in all gameplay outlets, easier to balance, and probably more fun for the player, while not necessarily being any more or less powerful in gameplay.

Maybe it would also be a good idea, if they integrate a double boonstealing to the mechanic, how in “Bountiful Theft”, or more like “Arcane Thievery” with the full boon duration and not only 5 secs. This could make the thief more useful against boonbunkers also without S/D.

• Venom: Venoms, with the exception of Basilisk Venom, are all pretty lackluster outside being used to give yourself Might stacks via Venomous Strength. The conditions they cause are usually just overridden by classes who are more apt at applying conditions (or in the case of Spider’s Venom, the Thief itself) and their effect goes unnoticed. As result, they’re not very fun in usage for the Thief and not very useful in multiplayer situations. On top of this, they lack any animations whatsoever.

My two cents: Venoms suffer in functionality as well as failing to grant a rewarding gameplay experience to the player. Perhaps Venoms should be unique debuffs or effects that work better in the presence of other conditions, or entirely new mechanics.

My suggestion for the basiliskvenom, similiar like above, is:
Turning your enemy to stone and remove all boons from your target. Your target cannot be the target of boons for 5 secs.

Ex: This venom makes your target more susceptible to poison. Poison causes an additional X% damage to the afflicted target for Y seconds.

Not sure what venom is useful for.

Cooldown is very long and they don’t even last 1/100th of that. A few applications and the venom buff is gone.

At the same time conditions are so easily removed. There being only 3 slots I can’t see why anyone would bring them in exchange for so many things much more useful.

Bud.5617:

Not sure what venom is useful for.

Cooldown is very long and they don’t even last 1/100th of that. A few applications and the venom buff is gone.

At the same time conditions are so easily removed. There being only 3 slots I can’t see why anyone would bring them in exchange for so many things much more useful.

I know I enjoy waiting 45 seconds for 3 seconds of chill. Sure, axe rangers get the same thing on a 10 second cooldown, and get 10 seconds of weakness with it for free, but they’ll never have the appreciation for it that comes with anticipation and waiting. In that respect, thief venoms are like Christmas morning!

Clockwork Bard.3105:

I know I enjoy waiting 45 seconds for 3 seconds of chill. Sure, axe rangers get the same thing on a 10 second cooldown, and get 10 seconds of weakness with it for free, but they’ll never have the appreciation for it that comes with anticipation and waiting. In that respect, thief venoms are like Christmas morning!

i loled….

Venoms are weak because of Venom Share, a trait that is very seldom taken. And in turn Venoms are very seldom taken too.

stof.9341:

Venoms are weak because of Venom Share, a trait that is very seldom taken. And in turn Venoms are very seldom taken too.

Wouldn’t Venom Share trait if it was useful would have been used a lot more often?

I think the problem is that even the attribute itself is fairly weak and far too situational.

Venom Share biggest problem is the small radius and the fact it’s not that strong with it :p

And yet venoms and venom share got constantly nerfed in the beta :/ And we got no real buffs since then.

I’d like to see the thief get more skills related to being more agile, and nimble on there feet, maybe some more porting abilities and so on. I don’t think I need to tell any thief on here that our traps are pretty useless considering how small they are, and the fact that none of them last long or are completely cancelled out by the enemy player; whereas rangers are easily usable and helpful in live combat and can be quickly placed and activated on an enemy (and has a wide area of effect).

Other classes generally complain about stealth, but its a fact that stealth is the only thing we have that works properly, and its our only defence, without it we die fast if not built to be a tank, and even then we can only get so much defence, which is fair considering we are suppose to be able to burst.

Fixed trap skills, and more agility would be nice to have (since thats what our attributes are suppose to be being thief’s and all). Or replace the defective trap skills and useless poison skills and give us some more abilities that involve being able to port to the enemy, or away if needed. Fixing steal like soap mentioned would be nice to, I know I only ever use steal to close in on my enemy, and the steal bonus where u get some random skill, is useless half the time in real combat.

Just a few things I think would be nice to have changed I think, I’d love to use other skills then stealth sometimes, if any of them were useful in wvw or pve that is.

Imho thiefs are OP. they kill people with 1 or 2 blow from behind in WvW. If guildwars wants to be a topgame they need to balance this char way better.

And yes i’m fully exotic lvl 80.

If thief want to have a “1-2 shot kill” setup, they will be 1-2 shotted themselves if they dont watch their backs. Thats why massive melee/ranged cleave attacks are so brutal against them.

Mick.2307:

Imho thiefs are OP. they kill people with 1 or 2 blow from behind in WvW. If guildwars wants to be a topgame they need to balance this char way better.

And yes i’m fully exotic lvl 80.

And?
To be full exotic means nothing.

I know warrior and engineers that kill you and 2 more with one attack from your front.
And thiefs can only hit ONE enemy with high dmg and not till 3 like all other classes.

In fact, thiefs are to weak, special because they must play with 25/30/xx/xx/xx do reach high numbers and dont have any defence skills.

Oh and btw GW2 is a team-oriented game, so solitary (+FullBerserker) players have no business here!

Black Teagan.9215:

Mick.2307:

Imho thiefs are OP. they kill people with 1 or 2 blow from behind in WvW. If guildwars wants to be a topgame they need to balance this char way better.

And yes i’m fully exotic lvl 80.

And?
To be full exotic means nothing.

I know warrior and engineers that kill you and 2 more with one attack from your front.
And thiefs can only hit ONE enemy with high dmg and not till 3 like all other classes.

In fact, thiefs are to weak, special because they must play with 25/30/xx/xx/xx do reach high numbers and dont have any defence skills.

Oh and btw GW2 is a team-oriented game, so solitary (+FullBerserker) players have no business here!

In your opinion, thieves are weak because YOU build weak…period…end of discussion. Try a troll build, you’ll never die.

No its not focused on damage…which is why most of the thief community doesn’t roll it. Most of you people want to stealth+stab+dead people like its some sort of WoW clone. No, it isn’t. Sorry…you’re not a rogue. Deal with it.

Most of the thief community is: “Erp erp nubers and stabby stab erp numbers erp”

wow you guys at Anet censor “d ………. erp” ? …. what the fk….

Anet needs to rework Venoms, Traps, and Tricks. Tricks is ok but should be on shorter CD for what they do.

Caltrops should be 20 seconds. Haste at 40. Scorp wire is ok but I wouldn’t complain at 15 seconds. Roll for Initiative at 30 but make it 4 initiative.

Venoms are a joke and I have no idea how to make them viable unless they are either an always on utility with a 20% proc on hit chance or merge them in as traits. i.e. 33% chance to poison target on crit, 6 stacks of bleeding causes infected wound inflicting 10 seconds of poison, Festering Wound - Causes poison and burning when target is inflicted with 12 stacks of bleeding.

Redscope.6215:

Black Teagan.9215:

Mick.2307:

Imho thiefs are OP. they kill people with 1 or 2 blow from behind in WvW. If guildwars wants to be a topgame they need to balance this char way better.

And yes i’m fully exotic lvl 80.

And?
To be full exotic means nothing.

I know warrior and engineers that kill you and 2 more with one attack from your front.
And thiefs can only hit ONE enemy with high dmg and not till 3 like all other classes.

In fact, thiefs are to weak, special because they must play with 25/30/xx/xx/xx do reach high numbers and dont have any defence skills.

Oh and btw GW2 is a team-oriented game, so solitary (+FullBerserker) players have no business here!

In your opinion, thieves are weak because YOU build weak…period…end of discussion. Try a troll build, you’ll never die.

No its not focused on damage…which is why most of the thief community doesn’t roll it. Most of you people want to stealth+stab+dead people like its some sort of WoW clone. No, it isn’t. Sorry…you’re not a rogue. Deal with it.

Most of the thief community is: “Erp erp nubers and stabby stab erp numbers erp”

wow you guys at Anet censor “d ………. erp” ? …. what the fk….

Rofl, when have I wrote that I cant kill or stay alive in battles? XD
Its not hard for me to win a 2 vs 1 (me) fight. But my or the skill of other thiefplayers say nothing about that that the thief is efficient or useful.

The thief is the most hated class in this game. In PvP, WvW and PvE and I can understand it.
BS is the only useful skill to make enough dmg (on one target) without to trail behind the other classes and stealth the only support mechanic from thiefs. I know that players, who cant learn to counter it, hate it to get down without to have any chance to react.

But this isnt the fault of the thief is the fault from Anet.
All mechanics of the thief are so bad and weak that every non-fulldmg-builds are wasted.

E.g. Stealing can much better the mesmer, average dmg is much higher on warriors, eles and mesmers, control by warrior and nekro. Venoms, more an ingame joke than skills.
General survivability, special again cc- and conditionspikes, I dont think I must talk about this.

ok so being a thief is awesome you get the idea of stealth and being able to jump onto an opponent but sadly the stealth or rather how stealth works is not implemented properly now before i continue i love the game there are a few balance problems blah blah blah but the thief stealth is the main thing iv seen people complain about im a level 40 something thief and i can allready tell the stealth is broken i can stealth for a insanly long amount of time and i can do it anytime i choose to even in a fight or when taking damage and so on i believe if the stealth changed more towards WoW it would work better so you change stealth so it permanent then make it that you cant goo into stealth during combat and so that when damaged you come out of stealth but make sure there is 1 ability thieves can use to go into stealth during combat for either a nice extra damage attack or to just run away yet have like a grace period of a few seconds so your not instantly popped back out of stealth now having this ability wouldnt change the game much as is allready because so far at lvl 40 something i can enter combat or leave when ever i want there is nothing to stop me but hard CC which i only have happen to me in wvw which isnt even that common then then change the extra stealth abilities we have now so that way they dont stealth you they just add a tad more survival the thief is a wonder class but very soft like extremely soft the light armour professions are better at surviving then i am even when they are a lower level the only thing i can do is hope i dont die while stealthing which brings me to idk if this is a bug or what but when stealthed if you get hit by say a warrior the warrior sees numbers pop up and can just blindly swing away and follow your stealthed moves which is horrible that on its own ruins the ability to stealth from what my view on stealth should be is either a way to start a fight for a squishy char or a way to escape combat not both not neither its one or the other but because of these numbers popping up my only hope is they dont hit me with a blind swing inside of my AOE STEALTH that i have to stay inside of for the full duration or i get nocked out of stealth which is just death right there on the spot

as for poisons and traps i see no point to them they offer nothing use full everyone has some way to remove the poisons/venoms and the traps offer no support even at my low level they are completly useless for fighting random monsters they do no dmg or very little and are not able to assist me at all the only good one might be the one (i forget the name) that summons a theif to assist when triggered but that is still a bad trap is has a small range and pretty much requires someone steps on it on purpose not to mention the thief it summons is weak and easly killed from aoe

the elite skills need some work the only one people ever use is dagger storm the one that summons the thieves is almost never used except by lower levels that didnt have enough skill points to just get dagger storm (btw sorry is name is wrong or i forget name) the racial ones are useless i havnt even seen someone use those as a thief anyhow and the basilisk venom is stupid its hardly a second long stun which can be broken by any other profession and only random monsters is it usefull against but even then i could just summon 2 thieves to help me fight instead of using a crappy venom

now i may be wrong on a few parts but these issues do need to be looked at about the thief i do enjoy playing as a thief but these few issues are making it worse and worse to play the higher level i get yes i can do pure damage builds and do a crap ton of damage but thats not how a thief should work a thief is similar to a rogue and should either use daggers to stab something in the back or use poisons/traps to whittle a things health away not allmost or in some cases 1 shot something thats just plain broken, thank you for taking the time to read my opinions

Still broken. Perma stealth, repeated stealth. Worst stealth mechanic ever.

Anyone know the name of the person who came up with the stealth mechanic so I never play a game he/she is involved in ?

Dear Page 1 to Page 75,

Give all classes 1-2 stealth options SOLVED.
I’m sick of stealth, hit, stealth, hit, ETC. getting hit by two stealthed backstab theives… no choice no chance no NUTHIN. I want a chance at any 2v1… A FRIGGIN CHANCE. You cant predict a shadowstepping facerolling stealthed theif, let alone 2!
Besides my ranting I actually have a solution to propose…. make a status called “AWARENESS” on the character that took damage from a stealthed theif, so that any other STEALTHED DAMAGE is then turned into a GLANCING BLOW for the next 5 SECONDS.
——-
Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.
——-

Did you really need to bump this 75 page, 7 months old thread?

ANet has done so well ignoring this feedback why would you want to remind them?

well, this particular feedback is about another nerf for thief , so maybe arena won’t ignore it.

Murtygale.2635:

Give all classes 1-2 stealth options SOLVED.
I’m sick of stealth, hit, stealth, hit, ETC. getting hit by two stealthed backstab theives… no choice no chance no NUTHIN. I want a chance at any 2v1… A FRIGGIN CHANCE. You cant predict a shadowstepping facerolling stealthed theif, let alone 2!
Besides my ranting I actually have a solution to propose…. make a status called “AWARENESS” on the character that took damage from a stealthed theif, so that any other STEALTHED DAMAGE is then turned into a GLANCING BLOW for the next 5 SECONDS.
——-
Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.
——-

Might aswell increase the cd of guards virtues,lower the health pool of warriors,remove lich form from necros,remove distortion from mesmers,remove pets from rangers,remove the elixer which makes engi small and untouchable trait and ute.
Seriously now,learn how to play you already have the revealed thingy stop whining and practice to be better.

Soap.6124:

As a long time Thief aficionado, some criticisms I have for the class would be:

• Steal: I don’t really see the Steal mechanic as successful in terms of gameplay; it’s powerful in usage, without a doubt. However, it’s used as a mobility & set-up tool more than anything; the actual stealing portion of the ability (acquiring the single use item/skill from your target) is probably the last reason anyone uses Steal. For a mechanic that’s supposed to define the class, it really fails to deliver when it comes to a rewarding gameplay experience.

The mechanic works well in when playing alone or in small-scale PvE excursions, but in larger-scale PvE, as well as sPvP, tPvP, and WvW, the entire concept behind mechanic is completely lost.

My two cents: I believe it would make more sense if Steal worked more along the lines of “stealing” a unique buff/boon from your target, based on what they are, rather than an item or skill. It would be more universally useful for its intended purposes in all gameplay outlets, easier to balance, and probably more fun for the player, while not necessarily being any more or less powerful in gameplay.

• Venom: Venoms, with the exception of Basilisk Venom, are all pretty lackluster outside being used to give yourself Might stacks via Venomous Strength. The conditions they cause are usually just overridden by classes who are more apt at applying conditions (or in the case of Spider’s Venom, the Thief itself) and their effect goes unnoticed. As result, they’re not very fun in usage for the Thief and not very useful in multiplayer situations. On top of this, they lack any animations whatsoever.

My two cents: Venoms suffer in functionality as well as failing to grant a rewarding gameplay experience to the player. Perhaps Venoms should be unique debuffs or effects that work better in the presence of other conditions, or entirely new mechanics.

Ex: This venom makes your target more susceptible to poison. Poison causes an additional X% damage to the afflicted target for Y seconds.

Couldn’t agree more on the steal. I’ve argued its lackluster rewards in posts before, the results are not universal and being the only F skill, doesn’t bring enough to the table.

As for venoms, they could probably make it something along the lines of virtues/signets, where it has a passive effect either on X number of strikes or a % chance on strike, then using it as an active has an amplified effect. In addition, I agree some venoms are simply overridden either by another player or the thief themselves. In the event of ice drake venom, why chill for ~3 seconds when you can immobilize for 4? I think having a sitting duck is better then letting them dodge or leap away from an attack. I’d change ice drake to some sort of karka venom, 2 attacks transfer a condition on hit. Give some defensive approach for venom share as well as a much needed help in the remove-condition department for thief. For Basilik Venom, I’d simply have it ignore stability. It’s a cast time, has a very clear marker on who has it ready, seems easily ignored by most professions. Let stun breakers still remove it but it should have some kick for applying petrify instead of stun.

Basilisk was nerfed because D/D burst would down anyone short of 3k armor and like 20kHP. To be on the receiving end of Basilisk is no joke. I main as thief and I won’t complain about that nerf.

The other venoms are pretty lackluster though.

Sandrox.9524:

Murtygale.2635:

Give all classes 1-2 stealth options SOLVED.
I’m sick of stealth, hit, stealth, hit, ETC. getting hit by two stealthed backstab theives… no choice no chance no NUTHIN. I want a chance at any 2v1… A FRIGGIN CHANCE. You cant predict a shadowstepping facerolling stealthed theif, let alone 2!
Besides my ranting I actually have a solution to propose…. make a status called “AWARENESS” on the character that took damage from a stealthed theif, so that any other STEALTHED DAMAGE is then turned into a GLANCING BLOW for the next 5 SECONDS.
——-
Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.
——-

Might aswell increase the cd of guards virtues,lower the health pool of warriors,remove lich form from necros,remove distortion from mesmers,remove pets from rangers,remove the elixer which makes engi small and untouchable trait and ute.
Seriously now,learn how to play you already have the revealed thingy stop whining and practice to be better.

Except none of those things you mentioned is as onerous as a stealthed thief.

fumcheg.1936:

well, this particular feedback is about another nerf for thief , so maybe arena won’t ignore it.

They don’t nerf thieves enough – they just added MORE stealth support to thieves in the April patch.

Murtygale.2635:

Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.

Sounds pretty good. Although better would be causing all attacks to be glancing blows.

Dee Jay.2460:

ANet has done so well ignoring this feedback

Unfortunately this is too true.

Johje Holan.4607:

complaints

Yeah, 1.5 years straight worth of nerfing was enough. In fact the last nerf made most of the veteran thieves shelve their thief. Now all you see are warrior/guardian hammer trains in WvW because all those vets rerolled and joined in the fun.

Next scapegoat is warrior and I highly doubt it will be as easy to nerf as thieves because everyone on the team pretty much plays them.

Johje Holan.4607:

Sandrox.9524:

Murtygale.2635:

Give all classes 1-2 stealth options SOLVED.
I’m sick of stealth, hit, stealth, hit, ETC. getting hit by two stealthed backstab theives… no choice no chance no NUTHIN. I want a chance at any 2v1… A FRIGGIN CHANCE. You cant predict a shadowstepping facerolling stealthed theif, let alone 2!
Besides my ranting I actually have a solution to propose…. make a status called “AWARENESS” on the character that took damage from a stealthed theif, so that any other STEALTHED DAMAGE is then turned into a GLANCING BLOW for the next 5 SECONDS.
——-
Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.
——-

Might aswell increase the cd of guards virtues,lower the health pool of warriors,remove lich form from necros,remove distortion from mesmers,remove pets from rangers,remove the elixer which makes engi small and untouchable trait and ute.
Seriously now,learn how to play you already have the revealed thingy stop whining and practice to be better.

Except none of those things you mentioned is as onerous as a stealthed thief.

What you failed to understand is,every proffesion has has his unique mechanic,and you need to adjust it,take away thieves stealth,they are no longer thieves.take away thier burst potencial you just made them a ranger,even now ranger is better than thief dmg wise.So,complain all you like,thieves got nerfed hard all the time,it started from the power signet which no thief is using now,to the s/d #2 skill nerf.So yea,reroll to hambow warrior if you cant take any thief on your own.

Zacchary.6183:

Yeah, 1.5 years straight worth of nerfing was enough. In fact the last nerf made most of the veteran thieves shelve their thief. Now all you see are warrior/guardian hammer trains in WvW because all those vets rerolled and joined in the fun.

Next scapegoat is warrior and I highly doubt it will be as easy to nerf as thieves because everyone on the team pretty much plays them.

There are still plenty of thieves in WvW, still too many. In fact just yesterday I mentioned to someone that it seems like thieves are everywhere.

Sandrox.9524:

Johje Holan.4607:

Sandrox.9524:

Murtygale.2635:

Give all classes 1-2 stealth options SOLVED.
I’m sick of stealth, hit, stealth, hit, ETC. getting hit by two stealthed backstab theives… no choice no chance no NUTHIN. I want a chance at any 2v1… A FRIGGIN CHANCE. You cant predict a shadowstepping facerolling stealthed theif, let alone 2!
Besides my ranting I actually have a solution to propose…. make a status called “AWARENESS” on the character that took damage from a stealthed theif, so that any other STEALTHED DAMAGE is then turned into a GLANCING BLOW for the next 5 SECONDS.
——-
Simply put= Attacking from stealth causes 5s of awareness on target, causing any stealthed attacks to be glancing blows.
——-

Might aswell increase the cd of guards virtues,lower the health pool of warriors,remove lich form from necros,remove distortion from mesmers,remove pets from rangers,remove the elixer which makes engi small and untouchable trait and ute.
Seriously now,learn how to play you already have the revealed thingy stop whining and practice to be better.

Except none of those things you mentioned is as onerous as a stealthed thief.

What you failed to understand is,every proffesion has has his unique mechanic,and you need to adjust it,take away thieves stealth,they are no longer thieves.

What you failed to understand is every other profession has a mechanic that is not as annoying as a thief’s stealth – and a thief’s unique mechanic is Steal anyway.

“take away thieves stealth,they are no longer thieves” And that is the precise problem with thieves.

I’m criticizing the design of the profession by Anet, not individual players so I hope no one takes offense (except Anet).

Johje Holan.4607:

stuff

You know whats more annoying than thieves? Mount threads and thief complaints threads. Both of those types of threads draw in many like-minded extremists who purely seek to get what they want in the most unyieldingly biased fashion.

And they are so bad that the only thing that will break them is severe ad hominem which always results in infractions and suspensions. But the worst part about them is that they get away with it.

All thieves can do is sugarcoat their posts enough to where the players who complain get the message without inciting the infraction hammer. That takes planning and careful consideration to wording, something that I REALLY wish I could ignore but can’t. Someone has got to be the one to give tough love, otherwise it all continues to plummet into oblivion.

You all know I am right.

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m criticizing the design of the profession by Anet, not individual players so I hope no one takes offense (except Anet).

Then you have to take it up with ANet’s support or in Profession Balance but do not come moaning in the Thief forum. We don’t go moaning in other profession forums either.

frans.8092:

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m criticizing the design of the profession by Anet, not individual players so I hope no one takes offense (except Anet).

Then you have to take it up with ANet’s support or in Profession Balance but do not come moaning in the Thief forum. We don’t go moaning in other profession forums either.

Sorry I wasn’t aware this was a no moan zone . I was just responding to a posts from others. I’ll take my criticism to the Profession Balance forum.

I have a thief. Just got to level 76. Hope to get to 80 this week. All I do is WvW and my thief is great fun to play. I just wish there were more options than stealth. I feel like I’m almost forced to use it – definitely pushed toward it.

Johje Holan.4607:

frans.8092:

Johje Holan.4607:

I’m criticizing the design of the profession by Anet, not individual players so I hope no one takes offense (except Anet).

Then you have to take it up with ANet’s support or in Profession Balance but do not come moaning in the Thief forum. We don’t go moaning in other profession forums either.

Sorry I wasn’t aware this was a no moan zone . I was just responding to a posts from others. I’ll take my criticism to the Profession Balance forum.

I have a thief. Just got to level 76. Hope to get to 80 this week. All I do is WvW and my thief is great fun to play. I just wish there were more options than stealth. I feel like I’m almost forced to use it – definitely pushed toward it.

Thank you. It would be nice if balance issues were discussed in that forum so thieves can discuss thievy things in this forum. Other profession forums wouldn’t welcome constant QQ either.

Some people report success with Sword based builds, usually S/D and while not without the use of stealth, it uses stealth a lot less then D/D, D/P and P/D. Various recent WvW video’s are available.

Dee Jay.2460:

Did you really need to bump this 75 page, 7 months old thread?

ANet has done so well ignoring this feedback why would you want to remind them?

Congratulations on your recent success on a bug free thief arena net….

Oh wait! we have a bug list and you just ignored it.

Necro-ed?? Is this where they get their ideas?? Atrocious…

Anyway since I’m already here did you guys realized thief utilities are very much locked? Traps,tricks and venom are at the bottom because the offense/CD/reward is not worth it. I only bothered playing with traps due to a rune why wasn’kitten trait(why the censor?)? Tricks are so basic and high CD Trickster is basic as well next to Bountiful Theft. Why is Leeching Venom gated but all venoms have same CD?

Weapons..I should stop this doesn’t like a good thread for feedback.

JESUS! i know necros got buffed but the ability to resurrect 2 year old threads is insane!

Arenanet please let someone out of your team who really plays the thief over long periods of time or better even as their main class, this patch hast nerfed us in so many ways it just makes thief look like a gimmic. In addition to that the only valuable build is D/P. I still want to play DD but the way you (sorry but you did) pretty much screw up our traits it’s almost unplayable. e.g. having Cloaked in Shadows being a GM trait along with Shadows Rejuvination is just a punch in the face for me.
You just simply cannot make the 1500 range on ranger and Illusionary persona on mesmer standard, they do NOT have to trait for something that powerfull and give us a F2
a simple F2 that makes about none to little difference in battle
Please but the thief on the same standard as the other classes, it just wasn’t a fair patch.
I could go on for hours counting up all the nerfs and lacks the thief has and that almost every class out damages, out sustains and out bursts the thief now.
But that’ll only make ppl flame again. Please don’t break the class more than you already have, we’d all (all thief players) would really appreciate some love for our class after years of nerfs.
Thanks for listening.

I think either other classes need toning down in damage, or thief needs to be brought up in terms of survival. Either a higher base health pool so we can also take advantage of zerker without being worthless or some kind of intrinsic or traited survival mechanic that every other class has.

We have no damage immunity. No blocks. No boon spam with tons of uptime on protection or viable sources of stability, definitely no ability to self max might at all or for prolonged periods of time and I’d say at least we have stealth but let’s just look at a PU mesmer who can keep fighting from the safety of stealth – people have nothing to complain about on thieves compared to literally everything else.

Catch a thief, it’s dead. “Catch” a mesmer and it’s going to get away if it wants to and or can just keep using phantasms and clones from stealth to apply pressure, healing up while doing so, then actually re-entering the frey and fighting again with damage that can 100%-0% someone instantly with refreshed CD’s.

Also I’d really love it if Shortbow wasn’t nerfed to hell, especially from a condi thief perspective. The nerf to choking gas was an absolute and poorly thought out joke. Previous reasons for nerfing it was to prevent from poison durations being too long. But now that poison stacks, the durations are ultimately meaningless and hardly worth using, it’s a huge toll on initiative / damage if you use choking gas over cluster bombs. You already nerfed choking gas with the new formula to poison and then went to nerf the duration further because you were afraid of it doing “too much damage” – meanwhile guardians can instantly apply 10-24 stacks of burning and down someone in 3 seconds with ONE condition source outside of the damage they dealt applying the burns.

Previous patch we had 3 seconds of poison per pulse which stacked duration. This equated up to 12 seconds of poison duration which with previous formula was like having two stacks of poison worth of damage for 12 seconds. Now even if we trait our poison duration up to 3 seconds using a venom sigil and a near worthless grand master trait the maximum duration is 6 seconds when combining all choking gas pulses.

This is not a very worthwhile investment when considering taking improvisation being able to reset valuable defensive or offensive utilities, heal, or even elite – also a sigil slot. Not to mention, considering the formula changes, we actually lose damage on top of uptime to choking gas even while traited using a grand master trait with venom sigil compared to last patch when it was used without trait or venom sigil.

Potent Poisons NEEDS more to be worth taking. I am 100% certain that 50% duration increase baseline is where it needs to be sitting to even begin to become truly useful, and the 10% damage bonus is not enough to really seal the deal on top of that, not compared to the rest of the damage being thrown out every where else. So move the damage bonus up to at least 20% along with a 50% duration increase and this trait gains some potential viability. Don’t scream at me that this is in any form or way OP in SPvP, all I need to say is look at burning. At best, with fully blown utilities and the time + effort involved trying to stack poison, this still wouldn’t do half of what burning does which requires far less effort to continually re-apply.

Honest opinion, I main thief but play more of classes now because it’s too hard to play a thief these days. Thief needs something to counter those passive abilities that block thief burst. All those passive auto immunities or stun reverb stuff killed our class. When I play my other classes in unranked and fight a thief it’s silly how easy they die. I just avoid the initial burst and then 2 shot them with autos…

It’s not fun to play thief anymore… It’s so frustrating playing really well only get destroyed by a passive ability. Maybe if basi venom was u breakable stun again or we had some way of not triggering those passives that might help…