Guild Wars 2

They should disable stealth in WvW until they fix culling in WvW.

When Engineer Turrets where bugged they had no problem disabling them.

Why are Engineers less worthy of a good place experience than Thieves?

I just got an idea. What if ANet would make a slight addition to downed mechanic which affects all professions and thus it would be even for all:

When going to downed state, you notice that you will be invulnerable for a second or two. What if they would add the event to also count as breaking stealth so if you are stealthed you would get the revealed debuff.

This won’t have a huge impact on game as all downed stealth mechanics would function normally (mesmer and thief ) as you would be 2 second invulnerable and there would be 1 second revealed time when you can even press buttons.

This would give people the chance to know if they dropped the stealthed player ( usually thief ) or not. As for now it is frustrating to try to kill shadow refuge thieves who have points in shadow arts as shadow refuge combined with hide in shadows and the trait proc ( blinding powder ) can quickly result in a 20+ second stealth. Then you should run with a melee weapon in a 600 radius circle ( range of thieves repositioning in downed state ) for 25 sec in hope that you downed the thief. No other class can survive over 20sec in downed state in a 1v1 situation.

Community, what you think? This together with fixing the rendering bug would balance the game a lot or not?

EDIT: Stealth would reward theives that build defensively more than glass cannons (as stealth would function as normal if you don’t fall down) as for now the blinding powder trait reguires only 5 points in shadow arts (correct me if I’m wrong) and will forgive too much glass cannon thieves that jump in on the wrong time when combined with other stealth skills (cloak and dagger, heal up and pop utility stealth)

Your are so full of kittens Every class can burst as hard or harder as GC thief does. Yes im a thief and no im not a GC thief and never will play one, but im still defending it. Im running with 21.5 k hp in www and engineer managed to burst me down to 2 k hp or so in 2 seconds, no stealth required. No thief managed to do that on me yet. So iIsay … NURF engineers too, couse they can burst. But w8 a seconds … I have witnessed glass warrior doing same on me in mass pvp when i simply didnt see him comming, mesmer too and a ranger ( yes a ranger, class so broken it does no damage at all ( well apparently it does) ). Well just nurf them all then. I bet most of ppl crying about geting 1 shot by thieves dont even have single piece of exotics on them and go full glass cannon, couse doing damage ( which they dont do couse the ydont have the good enough gear) is cool But thats just my gues

@ Karolis lol

Gimme a Necro/Ele build that can spam 2k+ damage non stop (at least, with heartseeker, CnD+BS = 7k at least). My ele has a few 2k skills and they all need skill to be landed on the enemy, just pressing the button, it will miss the enemy, unlike heartseeker who only misses if cripple or dodged.

So you thought of anything? Nope. Thought so. So anet, this is why thiefs need a nerf. They know they are more powerfull and are trying to use false facts to defend themself. I’m not asking for a major nerf. But Heartseeker and Cloack and dagger (perhaps Backstab too) are at the core of the Op-ness of Theif. You never gonna hear me complain about ppl who dont use offhand pistol. All those builds are ok.

ANet could you please add a ring around caltrops?

I would really like that ring to be there, so people that I am playing with might actually realize that I laid my caltrops there, so they don’t knock back my bleeding targets (I am looking at you Rangers and Guardians).

Thanks.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

@ Karolis lol

Gimme a Necro/Ele build that can spam 2k+ damage non stop (at least, with heartseeker, CnD+BS = 7k at least). My ele has a few 2k skills and they all need skill to be landed on the enemy, just pressing the button, it will miss the enemy, unlike heartseeker who only misses if cripple or dodged.

So you thought of anything? Nope. Thought so. So anet, this is why thiefs need a nerf. They know they are more powerfull and are trying to use false facts to defend themself. I’m not asking for a major nerf. But Heartseeker and Cloack and dagger (perhaps Backstab too) are at the core of the Op-ness of Theif. You never gonna hear me complain about ppl who dont use offhand pistol. All those builds are ok.

Please read the forums more carefully and search youtube before making these kinds of arguments. ( check page 29 of this thread )

Maugetarr.6823:

A question out of line with the current state of this thread, but infusion of shadows seems to far outshine patience. What is the point of this ability since it seems like stacking both abilities would be redundant.

No, I use both. It ensures that I have full initiative when I’m using my Dagger 1/Dagger 5 melee combo. Getting refunded 2 initiative with CnD (or gaining it when I use any stealthing utility) is incredibly useful, for my build at least, since I sacrifice my toughness and HP pool for the ability to heal in stealth while still being able to hit hard. (I have about 13k HP when I trait Practiced Tolerance, about 11.5k without it.)

I use a 0/30/30/0/10 stealthy build, and without both Infusion of Shadows and Patience, I would be in serious trouble. I’ve tried playing with different traits in that line, but my survivability plummets. For my playstyle that involves frequent stealthing when the stealth debuff ends, if I didn’t use both of those traits I would run out of initiative really fast.

And as any thief should know, when you run out of initiative you die.

CrazyAce.3842:

Maugetarr.6823:

A question out of line with the current state of this thread, but infusion of shadows seems to far outshine patience. What is the point of this ability since it seems like stacking both abilities would be redundant.

No, I use both. It ensures that I have full initiative when I’m using my Dagger 1/Dagger 5 melee combo. Getting refunded 2 initiative with CnD (or gaining it when I use any stealthing utility) is incredibly useful, for my build at least, since I sacrifice my toughness and HP pool for the ability to heal in stealth while still being able to hit hard. (I have about 13k HP when I trait Practiced Tolerance, about 11.5k without it.)

I use a 0/30/30/0/10 stealthy build, and without both Infusion of Shadows and Patience, I would be in serious trouble. I’ve tried playing with different traits in that line, but my survivability plummets. For my playstyle that involves frequent stealthing when the stealth debuff ends, if I didn’t use both of those traits I would run out of initiative really fast.

And as any thief should know, when you run out of initiative you die.

That only works when you hit the target, if you are talking about PvE where the target does not move then that is very nice, but in PvP CnD is usually missed a lot, due to players knowing that if you get into melee they are kittened, so players usually avoid cloak and dagger now.

Cloak and Dagger is very slow, the slowest melee attack in the game and has a easy to see animation.

Daecollo.9578:

That only works when you hit the target, if you are talking about PvE where the target does not move then that is very nice, but in PvP CnD is usually missed a lot, due to players knowing that if you get into melee they are kittened, so players usually avoid cloak and dagger now.

Cloak and Dagger is very slow, the slowest melee attack in the game and has a easy to see animation.

It’s called practice. If you don’t want to practice, that’s fine, but it works great for me.

I use pistols at range and use CnD + Dagger 1 or Sword 1 when people close in. if someone is trying to melee me, they make themselves a target for my CnD. If they’re at range, I pull out my pistols again. I don’t try to chase them down with melee. (Why would I?)

CrazyAce.3842:

Daecollo.9578:

That only works when you hit the target, if you are talking about PvE where the target does not move then that is very nice, but in PvP CnD is usually missed a lot, due to players knowing that if you get into melee they are kittened, so players usually avoid cloak and dagger now.

Cloak and Dagger is very slow, the slowest melee attack in the game and has a easy to see animation.

It’s called practice. If you don’t want to practice, that’s fine, but it works great for me.

I use pistols at range and use CnD + Dagger 1 or Sword 1 when people close in. if someone is trying to melee me, they make themselves a target for my CnD. If they’re at range, I pull out my pistols again. I don’t try to chase them down with melee. (Why would I?)

Because melee does more damage?

DarnDevil IV.2143:

When going to downed state, you notice that you will be invulnerable for a second or two. What if they would add the event to also count as breaking stealth so if you are stealthed you would get the revealed debuff.

Maybe necro wells should be removed when a player is downed in them as well?

Basically, in your opinion, if a player correctly judges the situation and predicts they’re going down shortly and takes action to increase his chances when actually being downed, you want to punish, or prevent, this good, skilful, play?

One idea that was suggested in another thread was quite good: disable precasting + steal/mug. It would do a lot to fix one of the most OP combos we have without really affecting any of the other builds.

These are my thoughts on how a thief should work in PvP:

A thief’s gameplay should be using stealth to pick off weakened targets, not burst people from full health.

A thief’s escape mechanism should not be stealth if he was just in combat.

A thief’s escape needs to require skill and planing on the part of the thief.

Before you nerf anything, you need to fix.

- Pistol Refire Rate, Damage
- Venom Utility to not be worthless.
- Useless Traps.
- Dual Skill Traits (to not be worthless, change them to traits like: Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%, Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%..)

Why pick a dual skill trait when theres a SAME trait right next to it that buffs damage by the same amount?!

Combined Training – Dual skills deal 5% more damage.
Change to: Swashbuckler Training – Sword and Spear Damage is increased by 10%.

Combo Critical Chance – Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.
Change to: Duelist – Increases Sword And Spear Critical Chance is increased by 15%.

Karolis.4261:

Your are so full of kittens Every class can burst as hard or harder as GC thief does. Yes im a thief and no im not a GC thief and never will play one, but im still defending it. Im running with 21.5 k hp in www and engineer managed to burst me down to 2 k hp or so in 2 seconds, no stealth required. No thief managed to do that on me yet. So iIsay … NURF engineers too, couse they can burst. But w8 a seconds … I have witnessed glass warrior doing same on me in mass pvp when i simply didnt see him comming, mesmer too and a ranger ( yes a ranger, class so broken it does no damage at all ( well apparently it does) ). Well just nurf them all then. I bet most of ppl crying about geting 1 shot by thieves dont even have single piece of exotics on them and go full glass cannon, couse doing damage ( which they dont do couse the ydont have the good enough gear) is cool But thats just my gues

I don’t think any of that was in any way true was it?

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels like 99% of the population want.

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

O.O Disagreed. If you want to use that argument, then nerf all classes so everyone learns to play -.- lol.

To simply put it, thieves don’t really need any major “nerfs” or changes. Stealth is mostly fine besides some culling issues here and there when there are big groups. Damage seems balanced enough provided that players do know how to fight thieves.

Define “Over Powered” and I’m sure we can come to a consensus of whether or not a revamp of skills etc is required for thief class.

When one character class can force build/gear/trait changes in all the other character classes to even be competitive there is an imbalance.

Name a single class that can remain competitive against a thief without mass investment in defensive attributes/utility/gear?

When imbalances like this occur it begins to limit play styles and builds available for use in any competitive instance.

This is why certain set builds are becoming common place……When all the other character classes must run knight, cleric or some other toughness build to just survive an initial encounter with a thief what does that tell you?

That is how I define a class is OP.

Like I said if you have no problem dealing with thieves post your gear set trait build etc and we’ll see if there is a trend……..

Jaytee.9513:

Define “Over Powered” and I’m sure we can come to a consensus of whether or not a revamp of skills etc is required for thief class.

When one character class can force build/gear/trait changes in all the other character classes to even be competitive there is an imbalance.

Name a single class that can remain competitive against a thief without mass investment in defensive attributes/utility/gear?

When imbalances like this occur it begins to limit play styles and builds available for use in any competitive instance.

This is why certain set builds are becoming common place……When all the other character classes must run knight, cleric or some other toughness build to just survive an initial encounter with a thief what does that tell you?

That is how I define a class is OP.

Like I said if you have no problem dealing with thieves post your gear set trait build etc and we’ll see if there is a trend……..

My Mesmer is built specifically for thieves in WvW. Full toughness spec, vit and toughness on all armor and weapons, cleric jewelry. I play a condition shatter spec. I can usually make a thief run away

Daecollo.9578:

Before you nerf anything, you need to fix.

- Venom Utility to not be worthless.

I’d hardly call it useless. In fact, you can use shortbow and literally triple the effectiveness of all your venoms. Add venom sharing and +1 charges to all your venoms and you have a monster of a PvP support build.

Basilisk Venom alone is two 1.5 second stuns that affect 3 targets, and can be applied to your entire party.

The only problems i see with Venoms are their relative weakness in PvE, because of less of a need for crowd control. That and Skale venom is just bad, even if you give it to your entire party.

Jaytee.9513:

Define “Over Powered” and I’m sure we can come to a consensus of whether or not a revamp of skills etc is required for thief class.

When one character class can force build/gear/trait changes in all the other character classes to even be competitive there is an imbalance.

Name a single class that can remain competitive against a thief without mass investment in defensive attributes/utility/gear?

When imbalances like this occur it begins to limit play styles and builds available for use in any competitive instance.

This is why certain set builds are becoming common place……When all the other character classes must run knight, cleric or some other toughness build to just survive an initial encounter with a thief what does that tell you?

That is how I define a class is OP.

Like I said if you have no problem dealing with thieves post your gear set trait build etc and we’ll see if there is a trend……..

Glass cannon Dagger Dagger Elementalists? They have so high mobility that with mist form ( utility skill plus downed if close to a keep or something ) they can easily escape from a thief with blink, ride the lightning, burning speed and perma swiftness.

frans.8092:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

When going to downed state, you notice that you will be invulnerable for a second or two. What if they would add the event to also count as breaking stealth so if you are stealthed you would get the revealed debuff.

Maybe necro wells should be removed when a player is downed in them as well?

Basically, in your opinion, if a player correctly judges the situation and predicts they’re going down shortly and takes action to increase his chances when actually being downed, you want to punish, or prevent, this good, skilful, play?

That would not cut off skillfull play. Let’s say you are about to go down and throw a shadow refuge. You are not visible so you should dodge around and lurk on the edges of the refuge so you should be fine if there is just 1 opponent. If you play skillfully with refuge, you will manage to survive those 5 seconds in it, if you count that 1 second will be gone for the time it takes your opponent to get to your refuge then there will be less time needed to survive. After refuge ends you end up with 15sec stealth and can shadowstep away or even just run without them ever noticing. (I assume you have at least 15 in shadow arts)This would just make the difference between a bad and a good thief bigger as if you cannot survive those 4 or 5 secs in refuge and you drop down then you will reveal yourself. The idea of thief would be “don’t get caught” which serves the profession I think.

And what comes to necro wells. Why don’t you just dodge or even walk out and use a ranged weapon to finish a necro or comeback after 5 sec to stomp? After all you don’t have to be waiting for 20 sec to be able to even try a stomp (in addition to that thieves are able to avoid 2 stomps in a row if they manage to reposition themselves in a good spot -> skillful playing?)

I mean that stealth mechanics forgive glass cannon thieves that get caught or jump in at the wrong moment ( or on the wrong player ) too much. This slight change would make stealth mechanic stronger with balanced and bunker builds than with glass cannon builds. And if you are really good this would have no effect on you at all as you rarely drop into downed state. This would just increase the skillcap of escaping as a thief as for now it is too easy even if you happen to go down.

I do play thief myself and I think it is fair that you can sneak out as long as you are able to stay up.

Aveneo.2068:

Interacting with an object/chest should unstealth a stealthed Thief.

For example, me and my guildmate were fighting a champion in Orr. A Thief came running in (trailing a ton of mobs) went stealth and looted the chest (and left us to fight the extra mobs).

So next to the ability to troll other players and have a laugh, they can get free loot wherever there’s a chest. That last part is an exploit in my opinion and should be fixed as it is not intended to open chests that are guarded by powerful mobs and make off with the loot.

When you stealth and try to open a chest or something, your stealth should drop.

I don’t understand why more people don’t just join me when I do that. I’ll help you kill the champ but I’m getting the loot first.

It’s frustrating that a Thief can Finish a downed player while Stealthed. Why do I even have downed attacks if I can’t see the guy killing me?

I will try and be nice ArenaNet….

About Thiefs – You have nerfed many of the things bad players cried about and still do.

Ele’s – You have buffed them to be the most OP class by far. AE CC, AE Damage, nearly perma vigor, out of the world heals + group support and fury.

ALL Other classes – Buffed to beat thiefs -

NOW the real problem

Bad people convinced you to nerf thiefs – you have been duped. I play every class with the exception of Warriors (cuase they are dumb). Good players could always be competitive with good thiefs. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADS….

A newbie thief could easliy kill all other newbie classes. Yes they are the OP class of the bad players. And even with all the changes a newbie thief can own other newbie classes. HOWEVER – any skilled players does not have to worry about thiefs unless the thief is much more supperior to them in skill.

I will break this down for you in kindergarden terms:

Poorly skilled thief VS Poorly skilled any other class —-- winner thief
Good skilled thief Vs Good Skilled class except Necro’s /Rangers — winner other class
Pro Thief Vs Good skilled class – Thief – with the exception of Ele’s, Mesmer, Guardian
Pro Thief Vs Pro Other class – Winner Other classes except Necro/Ranger

Basically we are second tier class…. Simply put.

WHAT YOU HAVE DONE BECUASE OF THIS —-

Now thiefs are at extreme disadvantages vs any good players (all classes) in WvW.

If your goal was to please bad players and kill thiefs – you have reached it.

Good/Pro players can deal with thiefs……

My personal experiences —

The nerf bat keeps comming every patch + you buff other classes every patch. = we are f’ed.

YOU HAVE GONE WAY TO FAR……

Thanks,

Malf

Faranox.4217:

It’s frustrating that a Thief can Finish a downed player while Stealthed. Why do I even have downed attacks if I can’t see the guy killing me?

Why do you even have downed attacks when Eles can mist stomp?
Why do you even have downed attacks when Necros can blind stomp?
Why do you even have downed attacks when Warriors, Guardians and Mesmers can stability stomp?

I could go on but I don’t feel like digging up the list of safe stomps. Why complain about one of the few safe stomps that can be counted easily?

CrazyAce.3842:

Maugetarr.6823:

A question out of line with the current state of this thread, but infusion of shadows seems to far outshine patience. What is the point of this ability since it seems like stacking both abilities would be redundant.

No, I use both. It ensures that I have full initiative when I’m using my Dagger 1/Dagger 5 melee combo. Getting refunded 2 initiative with CnD (or gaining it when I use any stealthing utility) is incredibly useful, for my build at least, since I sacrifice my toughness and HP pool for the ability to heal in stealth while still being able to hit hard. (I have about 13k HP when I trait Practiced Tolerance, about 11.5k without it.)

I use a 0/30/30/0/10 stealthy build, and without both Infusion of Shadows and Patience, I would be in serious trouble. I’ve tried playing with different traits in that line, but my survivability plummets. For my playstyle that involves frequent stealthing when the stealth debuff ends, if I didn’t use both of those traits I would run out of initiative really fast.

And as any thief should know, when you run out of initiative you die.

Fair enough since you use both, but if you choose 1, it seems that infusion of shadow will always be superior. I guess the real issue I have is that I always ends up picking multiple tier 1 traits because the second tier seems weak by comparison. It would be nice if patience did something in addition to one initiative after 3 seconds to put it on par with the front loaded 2 initiative of infusion of shadow. I understand that these 2 can’t trade places since you need to be traited into 4 second stealth for it to work. Look at the acrobatics line though, you get 2 initiative every 10 seconds which is what you would get if you used patience optimally ( stealth, wait 3 seconds, attack, restealth at the 6 second mark after revealed is gone, wait till the 9 second mark and attack again). That’s 6 seconds of downtime where pressure is off the opponent in which the acrobatics traitline could at least be autoattacking, and while traited 30 into critical strikes like you are, have about a 10% chance per hit of regaining that initiative or more depending on their critical chance. I guess redundant wasn’t the right word for me to use, maybe underwhelming would have been better.

Wilow.3061:

AlBundy.7851:

Endur Pain only lasts 3 seconds tooltip is wrong
Endure*

What kind of warrior are you using? Lasts 5 seconds for me unless those 0s after the 4 second mark were an illusion…Stop treating the wiki as doctrine. It doesn’t update itself quickly.

I just tested in pve, wvw and spvp it only lasts 3 seconds buff icon starts out at 3 and there’s no hidden duration after buff icon leaves. I’m on NA servers does it work on EU servers? I use it all the time even though it has such a high cooldown. Wish it was 5 seconds like the tooltip says. I never use the wiki it’s usually wrong alot of times.

Increase the range of Cloak n Dagger from /./ to /…/ because it misses alot of times.
Give something to Body Shot like Snare / Chill / Daze or whatever because this skill is just not useful and.
Fix Last Refuge and replace it with something good, obviously something wrong with it.
And if you’re going to nerf the thieves damage even more then you really need to compensate it with more health etc.. Because a thief out of stealth & no damage is really kitteny.

quercus.9261:

Jaytee.9513:

Define “Over Powered” and I’m sure we can come to a consensus of whether or not a revamp of skills etc is required for thief class.

When one character class can force build/gear/trait changes in all the other character classes to even be competitive there is an imbalance.

Name a single class that can remain competitive against a thief without mass investment in defensive attributes/utility/gear?

When imbalances like this occur it begins to limit play styles and builds available for use in any competitive instance.

This is why certain set builds are becoming common place……When all the other character classes must run knight, cleric or some other toughness build to just survive an initial encounter with a thief what does that tell you?

That is how I define a class is OP.

Like I said if you have no problem dealing with thieves post your gear set trait build etc and we’ll see if there is a trend……..

My Mesmer is built specifically for thieves in WvW. Full toughness spec, vit and toughness on all armor and weapons, cleric jewelry. I play a condition shatter spec. I can usually make a thief run away

Thank you for being honest…. It seems that there is some truth to what I am stating.

Players have to specifically spec to counter a single class, namely the Thief. This tells me that the class abilities are out of balance compared to the others.

This is the point that I am trying to convey to ANET’s dev team. It is a limiting factor preventing diversity in builds and play style. Dying in a few attacks is extremely frustrating for the losing side and removes the fun factor the game is trying to promote.

As to the person who recommended GC D/D elementalist as a counter, you would die to a thief’s attack in 1 sec. Ask any elementalist……..

I have posted some suggestions regarding counters to crit damage stacking but it just could be the damage coefficient of certain thief skills are too high.

Daecollo.9578:

Before you nerf anything, you need to fix.

- Pistol Refire Rate, Damage
- Venom Utility to not be worthless.
- Useless Traps.
- Dual Skill Traits (to not be worthless, change them to traits like: Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%, Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%..)

Why pick a dual skill trait when theres a SAME trait right next to it that buffs damage by the same amount?!

Combined Training – Dual skills deal 5% more damage.
Change to: Swashbuckler Training – Sword and Spear Damage is increased by 10%.

Combo Critical Chance – Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.
Change to: Duelist – Increases Sword And Spear Critical Chance is increased by 15%.

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Before you nerf anything, you need to fix.

- Pistol Refire Rate, Damage
- Venom Utility to not be worthless.
- Useless Traps.
- Dual Skill Traits (to not be worthless, change them to traits like: Right-Hand Strength – Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%, Blademaster – Increases your critical-hit chance with a sword by 10%..)

Why pick a dual skill trait when theres a SAME trait right next to it that buffs damage by the same amount?!

Combined Training – Dual skills deal 5% more damage.
Change to: Swashbuckler Training – Sword and Spear Damage is increased by 10%.

Combo Critical Chance – Dual skills have a +5% chance to critical hit.
Change to: Duelist – Increases Sword And Spear Critical Chance is increased by 15%.

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

Those aren’t bugged, they are working as intended. We would just like to see them not worthless. Our list of bugs is just as long as other classes (well, not all other classes).

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

Best quote in this thread. Thiefs = kill people even if they are not skilled.

Other 7 profs = if you don’t play well, you’ll die fast.

That alone imo is unfair.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

Best quote in this thread. Thiefs = kill people even if they are not skilled.

Other 7 profs = if you don’t play well, you’ll die fast.

That alone imo is unfair.

Not really, what I notice is people who are unable to play thieves whine about them being overpowered, because its harder then they thought when they actually PLAYED it, but they still get beat on there mains.

I find the other 7 classes much easier then thief in comparison, miss a cooldown? whatevs I got 9 more I can use! Miss a Thief skill? … FF——.. There goes half my initiative!

I just see players who try thief and do nothing but spam 2-2-2-, get killed and come on here and whine, an actual backstab combo is hard to pull off when your enemy knows what hes doing, to be honest I don’t see many backstab thieves at all anymore in spvp, although I still see lolheartspammers.

Elementalists have a high skill ceiling, shove on 100% critical sigils when switching attunement and bloodlust sigil, spec for attunements/critical damage, go full bunker, then proceed to roll your face across the aoes, hit everyone and get all boons by mashing f1-f4!

I literally see videos of them facerolling and killing everything with massive aoe damage, able to outheal everyone with 5-6 permament buffs.

You know how many boons thief has usually? 0, why? because we have some of the worst traits in the entire game, and limited weapon sets as well.

kenshinakh.3672:

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

O.O Disagreed. If you want to use that argument, then nerf all classes so everyone learns to play -.- lol.

To simply put it, thieves don’t really need any major “nerfs” or changes. Stealth is mostly fine besides some culling issues here and there when there are big groups. Damage seems balanced enough provided that players do know how to fight thieves.

But as of right now, most classes are already considered ‘nerfed’ so they are already in the L2P phase. Next will be thieves, so yeah L2P since so many of the thieves like to tell others to L2P. So yeah, thieves L2P. LOL

Lol this is just nothing.,
Majority of the people here are playing thief., and they want to nerf the mesmer because only mesmer can waste there skill.. Ok because im playing a thief now i will say please put a lot of damage to my pistol and put a lot of armor so i can continue over power in the game., i really like thief and even the fastest runner here no one can catch me., no one can kill me., if i want to survive just click my skill to stealth and bye bye yoh! Then i return if my HP is full while u r waiting for regen to your hp! Yeh., long live thief.,,,!

Daecollo.9578:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

Best quote in this thread. Thiefs = kill people even if they are not skilled.

Other 7 profs = if you don’t play well, you’ll die fast.

That alone imo is unfair.

Not really, what I notice is people who are unable to play thieves whine about them being overpowered, because its harder then they thought when they actually PLAYED it, but they still get beat on there mains.

I find the other 7 classes much easier then thief in comparison, miss a cooldown? whatevs I got 9 more I can use! Miss a Thief skill? … FF——.. There goes half my initiative!

I just see players who try thief and do nothing but spam 2-2-2-, get killed and come on here and whine, an actual backstab combo is hard to pull off when your enemy knows what hes doing, to be honest I don’t see many backstab thieves at all anymore in spvp, although I still see lolheartspammers.

Elementalists have a high skill ceiling, shove on 100% critical sigils when switching attunement and bloodlust sigil, spec for attunements/critical damage, go full bunker, then proceed to roll your face across the aoes, hit everyone and get all boons by mashing f1-f4!

I literally see videos of them facerolling and killing everything with massive aoe damage, able to outheal everyone with 5-6 permament buffs.

You know how many boons thief has usually? 0, why? because we have some of the worst traits in the entire game, and limited weapon sets as well.

I don’t know what classes you have played but if you play any other class with glass cannon build missing one skill can mean death for you. Specially if it has a 10 sec cooldown ( on cc skill ) as even 5 seconds can make the difference in pvp and you cannot be invisible ( except mesmers ). I wouldn’t say thieves are in an unfair position as their initiative system let’s you try again if you miss an important skill and after missing those 2 cloack and daggers you can always hide in shadows and make an escape and recharge as thieves have the highest mobility in game together with dd elementalists, with the exception that they have access to stealth ( which is amaizing when doing jukes ). I don’t say it shouldn’t be this way but I don’t understand why you see them under powered. As long as I have played thief I have liked the initiative system as it let’s you choose which skill to use and when. As long as you have initiative you can always use the best skill for the moment or burn your initiative on 1 skill ( mainly cloak and dagger for me as pistol dagger rocks ) and I think that is what makes the profession together with mobility and stealth. You can just go in and out and repeat that.

What comes to boons, you can always make your dodge to give you boons, make it cost less and you can trait your steal to steal boons and to give them to allies. Ofcourse this will make you more of an support and won’t serve solo roaming.

Thieves are not meant to counter dd eles. Actually I think ( bunker ) dd elementalists counter thieves in general pretty hard as they have quite nice cc and aoe skills and cannot be bursted down. On the other hand, confusion mesmers and condition/boon manipulation ( tanky ) necros counter bunker dd elementalists imo. This is a game where there is always another build to counter yours. If you are a thief why do you even choose to fight a guy if you have hard time killing him/her. You are a thief, you choose when fights occur and where.

Shadow protector (shadow arts III trait) grants you regeneration for 5 seconds and regeneration should stack in time, at leats thats what boon description says, but when using shadow protector it doesnt stack. Now i know that Shadow rejuvenation is superior in healing, but only if u sit those 3+seconds in stealth, if you use your opener same second as you enter stealth and enter back into stealth straight after revealed is finished you still have 1-2 seconds of regeneration left and new one doesnt stack, neither it gets applied at all. If it was made on purpose then nwm, if not, well this fix could be nice improvement for pve when specing into shadow arts. I myself now took this trait instead of shadow revenuation for general pve.

greate amount of drama people that state"thiefs op nerf pls" go on pvp in their pve gear w/o thoug/vit, gc thief hit them for 10k and they come here to drop some drama. I personaly have no problems with exterminating thief in 1v1 as a mesmer- even better if theief is gc, dies faster…. so u all drama people adjust gear/traits and learn how to avoid thiefs burst couse thiefs arent op anymore.
L2P
L2P
L2P
if u still fail, delete gw2 go play minecraft.

As only playing WvW myself I would like to see the rendering bug fixed. The one that prevents you to seeing unstealthed opponent for extra 3 seconds.

It seems to be a difficult one to fix to the point one has to ask whether the game engine itself is unfit for Stealth skill.

Alternatively Stealth could be changed so that it does not grant invisibility. Thieves would still retain access to stealth-only abilities and protection from directly aimed attacks.

That way the rendering bug would have no effect. AoE would become a valid counter against thieves as the profession description says. Thieves, and to lesser extent mesmers, would no longer be excused from gearing vitality/toughness in WvW.

Wow 30 pages of tear stained texted thats quite alot skimming through it i notice a trend of people who want the thief nerfed so they can just face roll it i take it alot of you people played Frost mages in WoW, Like its been stated culling is the issues and when it gets fixed im sure alot of this qq will die down there is a reason you do not see any Spvp threads crying how the thief is instagibbing teams and killing bunkers in 2secs untop of level/gear differences it creates a pretty big gap.

But anyway i believe the D/D setup does need to be toned down a bit BS could be dropped by 15% damage BUT but you have to give something to the thief such as giving them a extra 2k Vit and better armor/toughness and fixing the lackluster weapons and traits.

But the vast majority of this is mindless crying i challenge all the people saying thief are godmode to add me level a thief then move to a WvW server im against im on Underworld then were find a nice quite spot ill bring my Engi/thief/mesmer/ranger/ele/warr and guard then we can do 1v1s on all my alts and im pretty sure your find out that Godmode thief doesn’t exist when you face half decent people.

and to all the other thieves no need to worry i think its pretty clear Anet have stopped listening to the vocal minority since we got a buff last patch im expecting were get some more fixes this coming jan/feb patch

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Daecollo.9578:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

shochinhwa.1648:

Wilow.3061:

tagnut.8621:

And just to continue a theme – ANET please nerf the thief down to normal levels so I don’t have to learn how they play like 99% of the population people I know want.

Fixed it for ya.

You’re welcome.

Nerf thieves so they can actually learn how to play.

Best quote in this thread. Thiefs = kill people even if they are not skilled.

Other 7 profs = if you don’t play well, you’ll die fast.

That alone imo is unfair.

Not really, what I notice is people who are unable to play thieves whine about them being overpowered, because its harder then they thought when they actually PLAYED it, but they still get beat on there mains.

I find the other 7 classes much easier then thief in comparison, miss a cooldown? whatevs I got 9 more I can use! Miss a Thief skill? … FF——.. There goes half my initiative!

I just see players who try thief and do nothing but spam 2-2-2-, get killed and come on here and whine, an actual backstab combo is hard to pull off when your enemy knows what hes doing, to be honest I don’t see many backstab thieves at all anymore in spvp, although I still see lolheartspammers.

Elementalists have a high skill ceiling, shove on 100% critical sigils when switching attunement and bloodlust sigil, spec for attunements/critical damage, go full bunker, then proceed to roll your face across the aoes, hit everyone and get all boons by mashing f1-f4!

I literally see videos of them facerolling and killing everything with massive aoe damage, able to outheal everyone with 5-6 permament buffs.

You know how many boons thief has usually? 0, why? because we have some of the worst traits in the entire game, and limited weapon sets as well.

I don’t know what classes you have played but if you play any other class with glass cannon build missing one skill can mean death for you. Specially if it has a 10 sec cooldown ( on cc skill ) as even 5 seconds can make the difference in pvp and you cannot be invisible ( except mesmers ). I wouldn’t say thieves are in an unfair position as their initiative system let’s you try again if you miss an important skill and after missing those 2 cloack and daggers you can always hide in shadows and make an escape and recharge as thieves have the highest mobility in game together with dd elementalists, with the exception that they have access to stealth ( which is amaizing when doing jukes ). I don’t say it shouldn’t be this way but I don’t understand why you see them under powered. As long as I have played thief I have liked the initiative system as it let’s you choose which skill to use and when. As long as you have initiative you can always use the best skill for the moment or burn your initiative on 1 skill ( mainly cloak and dagger for me as pistol dagger rocks ) and I think that is what makes the profession together with mobility and stealth. You can just go in and out and repeat that.

What comes to boons, you can always make your dodge to give you boons, make it cost less and you can trait your steal to steal boons and to give them to allies. Ofcourse this will make you more of an support and won’t serve solo roaming.

Thieves are not meant to counter dd eles. Actually I think ( bunker ) dd elementalists counter thieves in general pretty hard as they have quite nice cc and aoe skills and cannot be bursted down. On the other hand, confusion mesmers and condition/boon manipulation ( tanky ) necros counter bunker dd elementalists imo. This is a game where there is always another build to counter yours. If you are a thief why do you even choose to fight a guy if you have hard time killing him/her. You are a thief, you choose when fights occur and where.

I don’t go GLASS cannon on any class, because its NOT worth it, if you don’t have toughness or vitality or some kind of defense then you deserve to die.

SPVPs berserker set gives you a lot of vitality, which needs removed, if they didn’t have that vitality and went full glass, you know how quickly people would be killed?

IF anyone in WvWvW runs around in full zerkers gear, they deserve to be destroyed by whatever stiff breeze knocks them down, NOT having access to toughness or at least 17k HP is almost instant death. This includes thieves too, you know how many Thieves I’ve killed just because I know how to play one and survived there initial burst by just teleporting around, and then melting them because they are glass?

Might isn’t worthless, but its one of the worst boons in the game, Thieves need more access to FURY/Protection/Regeneration (fix our bug please…) if your going to nerf our damage skills.

(I think the fury boon is equal to having 30 stacks of might… lol.)

Daecollo.9578:

Might isn’t worthless, but its one of the worst boons in the game, Thieves need more access to FURY/Protection/Regeneration (fix our bug please…) if your going to nerf our damage skills.

(I think the fury boon is equal to having 30 stacks of might… lol.)

While I’d also like to see more access to boons for thieves, saying Might is one of the worst boons is like saying Bleed is one of the worst conditions. Their strengths lie in easy stackability and . Although each individual stack is weak, they’re the most resistant to removal since they can be easily reapplied.

As far as relative power, Fury gives the equivalent of 420 stat points, whereas each Might stack gives the equivalent of 70 stat points. Therefore, they give equal benefit (as far as amount of bonus stats) at 6 stacks of Might. Even if you ignore half of Might’s benefit because you don’t utilize both offensive stats Might would equal Fury at 12 stacks. If 30 stacks of Might were indeed achievable, the statistical benefit would be 2100 stat points compared to Fury’s 420.

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

Might isn’t worthless, but its one of the worst boons in the game, Thieves need more access to FURY/Protection/Regeneration (fix our bug please…) if your going to nerf our damage skills.

(I think the fury boon is equal to having 30 stacks of might… lol.)

While I’d also like to see more access to boons for thieves, saying Might is one of the worst boons is like saying Bleed is one of the worst conditions. Their strengths lie in easy stackability and . Although each individual stack is weak, they’re the most resistant to removal since they can be easily reapplied.

As far as relative power, Fury gives the equivalent of 420 stat points, whereas each Might stack gives the equivalent of 70 stat points. Therefore, they give equal benefit (as far as amount of bonus stats) at 6 stacks of Might. Even if you ignore half of Might’s benefit because you don’t utilize both offensive stats Might would equal Fury at 12 stacks. If 30 stacks of Might were indeed achievable, the statistical benefit would be 2100 stat points compared to Fury’s 420.

Yeah, but then again your comparing stat points, Power isn’t as valuable as Precision is unless you have 100% critical chance.

Condition Damage isn’t valuable unless you have condition duration.

It just depends, if you are specced for Both Condition Damage/Power/Precision, its amazing, but anyone stacking this should not be playing in anything, because a stiff breeze would kill them.

20% FLAT Critical Chance is pretty dang nice, its too bad we have access to so little of it.

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah, but then again your comparing stat points, Power isn’t as valuable as Precision is unless you have 100% critical chance.

Condition Damage isn’t valuable unless you have condition duration.

It just depends, if you are specced for Both Condition Damage/Power/Precision, its amazing, but anyone stacking this should not be playing in anything, because a stiff breeze would kill them.

20% FLAT Critical Chance is pretty dang nice, its too bad we have access to so little of it.

As long as I have seen when people are making builds for direct damage they prefer offensive stats in this kind of order : power>precision>critical damage

As critical hits do damage your critical damage multiplier times your power. Stacking precision won’t do so much damage as power increases your over all dps and will make those crits even bigger.

I want you all to notice that the lack of fury is not a bug it is intended. Fury is designed mostly for warriors to have and give out ( as stealth is for thieves ) but engineers and rangers have moderate access to gain fury as well. I think you should not be complaing about it as necromancers have only one way to gain fury if teaited in to condition damage, if you do not count runes, as you can see from here.

If you want to have fury as a thief you should get at least the superior runes of the Citadel or Rage

I’d rather have 80% critical chance and my attacks hit for 80 and a 20% chance for my attacks to hit for 20, rather then 60% critical chance and my attacks hitting for 100, but a 40% chance for my attacks to hit for 20.

DarnDevil IV.2143:

EDIT: notice that if you pick Thrill of the Crime ( 10 points in trickery )and use it when selecting a target that is not in your steal range you can stack endless amounts of fury and swiftness as you will gain 10 seconds of fury every 5 seconds making this give you net fury of 5 seconds per cycle. This way you can have 30 seconds of fury when you finally go in ( if you move into the range on the fifth time, this takes ofcourse a while to stack up so I would suggest going for 20 seconds of fury as it will take only 10 sec to build up, in other words go in with third steal so you have 20 sec of fury and swifness and 5 seconds of 2 stack might fading for 1 stack for another 5 sec ). This can be very effective if you are playing i.e. DD condition build with sigil of superior earth. Specially because you propably are going for trickery anyway with DD condition build.

If you don’t believe this is possible read the chapter above the list of stolen skills from here or test it yourself.

This isn’t possible, and I would suggest testing this out yourself before posting. Yes stealing outside steals range puts it on a very short cd, but you also don’t gain any of the buffs.

Wilow.3061:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

EDIT: notice that if you pick Thrill of the Crime ( 10 points in trickery )and use it when selecting a target that is not in your steal range you can stack endless amounts of fury and swiftness as you will gain 10 seconds of fury every 5 seconds making this give you net fury of 5 seconds per cycle. This way you can have 30 seconds of fury when you finally go in ( if you move into the range on the fifth time, this takes ofcourse a while to stack up so I would suggest going for 20 seconds of fury as it will take only 10 sec to build up, in other words go in with third steal so you have 20 sec of fury and swifness and 5 seconds of 2 stack might fading for 1 stack for another 5 sec ). This can be very effective if you are playing i.e. DD condition build with sigil of superior earth. Specially because you propably are going for trickery anyway with DD condition build.

If you don’t believe this is possible read the chapter above the list of stolen skills from here or test it yourself.

This isn’t possible, and I would suggest testing this out yourself before posting. Yes stealing outside steals range puts it on a very short cd, but you also don’t gain any of the buffs.

Your right, you don’t get the buff less you actually hit someone.

You don’t have to hit anything to get the buffs off the steal to pop.

You do have to make the steal skill trigger to get the buffs but you don’t have to hit anything to make steal trigger. You will be on the long cool down when it triggers.

Steal traited to get the buff with swiftness, superior centuar rune to give swiftness on heal, and running along a warrior using horn, I was able to steal and heal while the warrior blew their horn and I had swiftness stacked to 1 minute. Didn’t steal from anything, just making it trigger is all. I never got any kind of item in my steal box either when I just triggered it. Just a long cool down.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

You don’t have to hit anything to get the buffs off the steal to pop.

You do have to make the steal skill trigger to get the buffs but you don’t have to hit anything to make steal trigger. You will be on the long cool down when it triggers.

Steal traited to get the buff with swiftness, superior centuar rune to give swiftness on heal, and running along a warrior using horn, I was able to steal and heal while the warrior blew their horn and I had swiftness stacked to 1 minute. Didn’t steal from anything, just making it trigger is all. I never got any kind of item in my steal box either when I just triggered it. Just a long cool down.

Yeah, except it doesn’t work, because I just tested it in SPVP.