Guild Wars 2

If you want thieves to use less stealth, make other builds effective. With my dodge working only when I’ve turned off auto-attack and Death Blossom activating on time ONLY when I’m not performing any other actions (save for running around et caetera) I kind of gave up on my vision of an acrobatic thief, relying on dodges and well planned movement instead of the whole sneaky-stabby (it’s mostly fun in single player games, here it takes two buttons on a still target).
Really, Warriors getting up a few times from the downed state in a fight when surrounded by friends bug me a lot more than princes and princesses Stabbity doing stab stab kill kill.

Onionknight.7186:

Really, Warriors getting up a few times from the downed state in a fight when surrounded by friends bug me a lot more than princes and princesses Stabbity doing stab stab kill kill.

Lets not exaggerate warriors can “get up” when downed once and only once unless they are allowed to heal then they go back down in what 6 seconds? 8 sec? Sounds super hard to simply move away and let them die again, so lets not exaggerate about that one.

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

1.) What you mean by being “in trouble” against a tanky warrior, guardian, necro or ranger is not what most of think of. You’re “in trouble” means that you can’t just pop out and burst him down, however you’re not actually worried about getting killed by these players. For the rest of us that aren’t thieves and don’t have a free get out of jail card when we go up against a character that we can’t kill we have to worry about dying ourselves. So please be realistic and stop trying to trivialize what your class can do and be aware of what the rest of us CAN’T do (like simply vanish if we’re in trouble).

2.) So tell me what hard counter does a mesmer or elementalist have against a stealth specced thief again? Sure they do have certain abilities that help them survive against thieves but what do they have that can hard counter a thieves stealth? Oh that’s right, nothing just like the rest of us. See the problem here? Almost every other class with powerful skills doesn’t have a 31 page thread complaining about them because all those abilities have ways to be addressed, stealth however… doesn’t. So yea, either stealth needs to be made so it’s used MUCH more sparingly (as in you have to think when and how it’s going to be used for a tactical advantage rather than just incorporating into your attack rotation mindlessly) or it needs to be completely redesigned so there is some way for all classes to directly counter it (means of detection, visual indicators of stealth, common ways of breaking it ect ect).

Nate Rush.6970:

In his defense, 4 seconds of invuln is a lot more skillful than 4 minutes of find the invisible man.

One of these things has a 60 second C/D, the other can be spammed indefinitely (I’ll leave it to the reader to figure out which is which); if that’s supposed to be an argument in favour of the current state of stealth… well, I’m not convinced.

And yes bunker eles have issues too, but that’s another thread… I hope?

I’m just gonna be frank – it’s bad design, it’s an extremely powerful ability and there’s no hard-counter whatsoever (yeah, every day I kill a bunch of Thieves while they’re in stealth – PvP players aren’t all bunnies, I predict when the FOTM-er is gonna freak out and pop it, and use a channeled attack, I can track him that way – if he lives through the damage recieved) – no need to be surprised that people get upset, not sure I have much more to add that hasn’t been said a hundred times before, in this very thread.

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

Onionknight.7186:

Really, Warriors getting up a few times from the downed state in a fight when surrounded by friends bug me a lot more than princes and princesses Stabbity doing stab stab kill kill.

They can only use Vengeance if you’ve allowed them to sit there for, like, 10 seconds.
After they do, you only have to keep them busy for a short time before they’re straight-up dead. A decent cripple or two is often enough to do it.

oZii.2864:

Oh Yea them visual cues that reward good play like INVULNERABILITY rofl. Come on lets get real here. You named all those things about fighting a d/d ele that is being beat on by 5 ppl. Then you see them turn into mist and start jumping away. Splash a heal then RTL back into 5 ppl lmao are you serious. I like the challenge of fighting D/D ele’s on my thief because I know its going to be a good fight probably with no winner. Come on though naming all these good things in your opinion but leaving out invulnerability etc that isn’t some reward for good play its pressing a button. Blind and aegis I agree but some of these abilities you named are pretty easy to pull off.

You named mesmer I’m in trouble i press 4? Im traited for illusiionary persona so I can get my 4 seconds of invulnerability. That took skillz!!!!!

Invulnerability is designed to mitigate a concentrated burst. Considering it goes on a long cooldown, proper use of it (for example, building it in to escape from a Frenzy burst) can chance a fight. Just using Mist Form willy nilly is useless, and will typically get an Elementalist killed if the opponent is any good. I’ve timed many an Earthshaker to land right when something like Mist Form ends.

Most invulns are on at least an untraited 60 second cooldown. If the fight lasts longer than that, then it’s an interesting fight with multiple cooldowns anyway. Considering the degree of burst, having an “oh kitten” button means you have one less offensive cooldown to play against, and can shift the flow of the fight.

More often than not, a block/invuln opens up an opportunity, so when it’s used to block burst, I’m fine with it.

I’ll take an enemy using invulnerability over a Thief using stealth every single day of the week.

Any change to stealth means that Thieves need to be buffed in some way. Everyone does realize that stealth is literally the way thieves defend themselves (beyond dodging) right? Thieves have no invulns, no fears, no protection or retaliation. For the Thief it’s stealth or nothing to keep yourself from being killed. It might suck for everyone because it ‘provides no feedback’ and whatnot and yea, I get it, it sucks not to see your target but any nerf, even a slight one means that your detracting from an entire classes ability to fight at all without being useless. If you want stealth to become less necessary to thief fighting styles, then thieves have to be given other abilities to negate damage.

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

He didn’t phrase it well but he is right, that screenshot proves nothing beyond the fact that the damage was done. You’ve made a claim that it was done to a ‘20k bunker build’ but then only provide the damage done to this supposed build, rather then proof of whom it was done too. We literally have only your word on if it was actually done to a tank build and I presume it’d have all it’s buffs running as well. If I were to do the exact same thing, with a very similar screenshot and say “Look at what this <insert class here> did to my tank build Guardian”, you’d be a little suspicious right? Because it looks like I’m hiding something that is detrimental to my point.

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

That was only 14k damage, looking like you were being attacked by other people, how do you know the thief wasn’t getting buffed by anyone, how do we know you had protection, how do we know you didn’t have 10 stacks of vulnerability?

To be honest, you ate 9k damage, thats average for a GLASS cannon, without protection.

Average hit for a Non-glass cannon with protection is 4-6k, with d/d eles I usually hit them for 4.7k MAX, which is rediculous.

fact (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2.
a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.

Here if you have problems defining facts.
For all we know you could’ve just standed there naked afk and let the thief hit you.That buddy , is not a fact.
And even if it was a fact , doesn’t prove Thief is OP and that the engi was defenceless against the Thief.Some numbers of the screen don’t prove anything.But I realy don’t expect you to understand this much .

I know the C&D is the main problem thats why thief can stealth every 2-3 sec., but nobody can understand this even arena net dont know this., for your information all #5 skill is like your ulti or something special it means over using of #5 skill make imbalance to other class.. Just imagine if every class they can use there #5 skill every 2-3 sec., ok maybe they can make change to that C&D., what if they make the C&D effective if they stab on the back., not on the side not on the front. Because thief is the famous backstaber so that the C&D should be stab on the back! Thats the thing that can resolve the over stealthing of the thief., hope this thing will help to solve this issue.,

Thief is fine and BS thief is a joke.I can’t wait for the new update to come and lough it in your face when they didn’t do anything about it ,Again.

I know arena net is blind., and I Know they will just ignore this., thats why I role a thief., and Im happy of killing player, punishing them., and nobody can kill me., haha., its just like playing dota using rikimaru and my oponent is not buying Something that can see the hiding rikimaru.

jan.9745:

I know arena net is blind., and I Know they will just ignore this., thats why I role a thief., and Im happy of killing player, punishing them., and nobody can kill me., haha., its just like playing dota using rikimaru and my oponent is not buying Something that can see the hiding rikimaru.

Lets test that theory of yours , roll your thief and lets see if I can’t kill you on my elementalist.
Am serious , lets hop into W3 . I’ll do the recording.

Simply put, the dual-dagger thief has far too much DPS. It is the only profession capable of dealing 5000+ damage per attack in rapid succession. Wild Strike + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab == dead in 2 seconds. This is not balanced even if the build is considered a glass canon for the simple reason that thiefs get stealth so their toughness doesn’t really matter when they can kill so fast.

Caelib.2497:

Simply put, the dual-dagger thief has far too much DPS. It is the only profession capable of dealing 5000+ damage per attack in rapid succession. Wild Strike + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab == dead in 2 seconds. This is not balanced even if the build is considered a glass canon for the simple reason that thiefs get stealth so their toughness doesn’t really matter when they can kill so fast.

Ye ,totaly.Stealth gives you 10k extra hp and toughness + invulnerability.Totaly OP.

Ok tell me your server so that i can transfer.

Caelib.2497:

Simply put, the dual-dagger thief has far too much DPS. It is the only profession capable of dealing 5000+ damage per attack in rapid succession. Wild Strike + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab == dead in 2 seconds. This is not balanced even if the build is considered a glass canon for the simple reason that thiefs get stealth so their toughness doesn’t really matter when they can kill so fast.

Well, for starters, Wild Strike is the 2nd strike in our auto chain, so if the thief is doing this they were hitting you before going into stealth. CnD + BS isn’t enough to kill anyone. It does a lot of damage when it’s pulled off, but not enough to kill by itself. Many other professions are able to hit for 5000+ in rapid succession, look around. Are all of them as easy to pull off? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Are most of them AoE attacks? Yes. Is CnD + BS AoE? No. If you want proof, I’ll gladly respec out of bunker on my Ele (or hope on my Mesmer) and show you burst.

I’m amazed at the number of people that still can’t counter thieves. They aren’t that hard to kill, since they will fall over dead from farting in their direction. And if they aren’t GC/BS build, they won’t cause you much trouble (just ignore the P/D thieves if you can’t kill them, they can’t do much as long as you have SOME condition removal)

Caelib.2497:

Simply put, the dual-dagger thief has far too much DPS. It is the only profession capable of dealing 5000+ damage per attack in rapid succession. Wild Strike + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab == dead in 2 seconds. This is not balanced even if the build is considered a glass canon for the simple reason that thiefs get stealth so their toughness doesn’t really matter when they can kill so fast.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior, have you?

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

That was only 14k damage, looking like you were being attacked by other people, how do you know the thief wasn’t getting buffed by anyone, how do we know you had protection, how do we know you didn’t have 10 stacks of vulnerability?

To be honest, you ate 9k damage, thats average for a GLASS cannon, without protection.

Average hit for a Non-glass cannon with protection is 4-6k, with d/d eles I usually hit them for 4.7k MAX, which is rediculous.

Are you unable to do simple math or just not paying attention?
4529+ 5137 + 9843 = 19509

Can we at least agree on that?

Either one speaks volumes about you.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

That was only 14k damage, looking like you were being attacked by other people, how do you know the thief wasn’t getting buffed by anyone, how do we know you had protection, how do we know you didn’t have 10 stacks of vulnerability?

To be honest, you ate 9k damage, thats average for a GLASS cannon, without protection.

Average hit for a Non-glass cannon with protection is 4-6k, with d/d eles I usually hit them for 4.7k MAX, which is rediculous.

Are you unable to do simple math or just not paying attention?
4529+ 5137 + 9843 = 19509

Can we at least agree on that?

Either one speaks volumes about you.

Oh no, I missed one, yep your right you got hit for 19k.

What jewelry/armor do you use?
What are your traits?

Perhaps I can help your engineer beat thieves.

jan.9745:

Ok tell me your server so that i can transfer.

Transfer to Blacktide .I’m in Desolation.Whisper me in game , Nnaqu.Don’t make me wait.

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

That was only 14k damage, looking like you were being attacked by other people, how do you know the thief wasn’t getting buffed by anyone, how do we know you had protection, how do we know you didn’t have 10 stacks of vulnerability?

To be honest, you ate 9k damage, thats average for a GLASS cannon, without protection.

Average hit for a Non-glass cannon with protection is 4-6k, with d/d eles I usually hit them for 4.7k MAX, which is rediculous.

Are you unable to do simple math or just not paying attention?
4529+ 5137 + 9843 = 19509

Can we at least agree on that?

Either one speaks volumes about you.

Oh no, I missed one, yep your right you got hit for 19k.

What jewelry/armor do you use?
What are your traits?

Perhaps I can help your engineer beat thieves.

Shield/pistol at the time. 0/20/30/20/0 build. Full Vit/Toughness gear. All Exotic.
The entire time the thief attacked me she was invisible. I didn’t even have time to pulse shield 4 for the knockback. I died before the it went off.

Since being full defensive didn’t matter I went to a rifle build. Still tanks 3k Armor, 20k health. Still get instagibbed.

If full defensive doesn’t stop insta-gib why bother?

The only way you can help Engineers beat thieves is to admit they are game breakingly overpowered and encourage Arena Net to pull their heads from their kitten

If YOU can’t instagib an Engineer it is because you are bad. Sorry, but it is true.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

NightyNight.1823:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

CrazyAce.3842:

Xae.7204:

Yeah, it would be great to see some Thief playstyles other than “LOL INSTAGIB” get buffed. P/P was really fun, but overpowered, in some of the BWE. They probably hit the damage to hard, but it was fun to by a mid range skirmisher.

That is a cute list of bugs though. You should see the ones in the Ranger, Engineer or Necro forums. Necros even devised a tracking and naming system. Engineers cracked 100 a while ago.

“LOL INSTAGIB” only happens when people build glass cannons in low-mobility classes like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, and Necro. If people stack toughness (for instance, all Warriors should be using Knight’s Armor and/or emerald trinkets in WvW), then glass cannon thieves like myself can be in trouble.

Elementalists and Mesmers are only in trouble if they sit still and don’t know how to play against thieves. No matter what their build, Elementalists have plenty of defensive, offensive, CC, and gap-control abilities to work with. If an Ele loses against a thief, then he’s not using his skills and attunements well enough (that goes double for D/D eles, who should have an ADVANTAGE over a standard thief). If a Mesmer loses against a thief, it’s because he wasn’t using his illusions like blood hounds, and using his CC and gap-control abilities like they should.

For Engineer…. well, unless you’re a TANKCAT engie, you’re pretty much screwed. Engies need a serious buff. It’s why my engie hasn’t even gotten past lvl 11 thus far (I’ve not put any time into it).

I play a Bunker Engineer. ~25K Health, ~3k Armor. A ton of toughness. High levels of protection uptime.

I can be nigh-instagibbed by a good Thief.

That is the problem. “LOL INSTAGIB” even works through defensive specs.

That seems impossible, I need a video with your stats up. (trait choices as well.)

I’ve been reading some of these things. 50% movement speed in stealth is capped at 33%, so you gain nothing if you have swiftness and you gain 8% if you use signet of shadows. Do you play this class?

Stealing 20 stacks of might? you can only steal one stack from someone with bountiful theft. Do you play this class?

Engineers are amazingly tanky, they should not die that easilly, especially to an instagib thief, infact with there traits, it should be impossible to instagib them, if they go under a certain amount of HP, they gain 4-5 seconds of invulnerability. Don’t you play the class?

There is a counter to stealth, its called: think like a thief does, why don’t you try playing a thief and figure out how the class works, I did that and now I have no problem with them on my warrior.

I’m getting tired of trying to defend my class when people just come in and sprout nonsense that isn’t true, and don’t bother to test anything.

http://i.imgur.com/g3euq.png
20K damage combo, through protection full bunker Engineer.

Thats not evidence.Those are some numbers on the screen.Even if it they were to be true ,which we can’t know, doesn’t mean anything.

You heard it here first kids:

“Facts aren’t evidence”.

Well, better than the standard “facts don’t matter”.

Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

That was only 14k damage, looking like you were being attacked by other people, how do you know the thief wasn’t getting buffed by anyone, how do we know you had protection, how do we know you didn’t have 10 stacks of vulnerability?

To be honest, you ate 9k damage, thats average for a GLASS cannon, without protection.

Average hit for a Non-glass cannon with protection is 4-6k, with d/d eles I usually hit them for 4.7k MAX, which is rediculous.

Are you unable to do simple math or just not paying attention?
4529+ 5137 + 9843 = 19509

Can we at least agree on that?

Either one speaks volumes about you.

No ,we can’t agree on that.Make a video whit your gear ,traits and the whole fight , then show us the numbers. Then we can agree and lough about you.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

In that build backstab only hits me for 3578!

If those traits are broken, then why don’t you complain about your class being crappy and not thief being overpowered?

For me, the Thief’s biggest issue is weapon viability. Overall, it is 90% dagger/dagger. I would like to see the sword reworked to be a bit more effective, and have a benefit when used from stealth.

Also, using a sword in the offhand would be nifty too.

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

In that build backstab only hits me for 3578!

If those traits are broken, then why don’t you complain about your class being crappy and not thief being overpowered?

4k? What a from a level 20 thief?
Taking from a 9K base where do you see 50% damage reduction? You didn’t even pick up +toughness for the shield.
You are lying.

Because even if they worked they wouldn’t be that good.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

In that build backstab only hits me for 3578!

If those traits are broken, then why don’t you complain about your class being crappy and not thief being overpowered?

4k? What a from a level 20 thief?
Taking from a 9K base where do you see 50% damage reduction? You didn’t even pick up +toughness for the shield.
You are lying.

Because even if they worked they wouldn’t be that good.

He was a backstab thief in SPVP, he hit me for very little.

I am indeed a liar.

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

What exactly did you expect from a Thief player who tries to claim he’s not OP? These guys are FOTMers, and will defend their crutch to the bitter end.

A full-power Thief is not intimidated by 30k HP – I speak from experience – the Mug/C&D/BS combo can hit for up to and over 20k even on full-bunker specs, then it’s a matter of two more landed heartseekers (up to another 10-15k) and nobody will survive. Nobody, hear? I never met a player I couldn’t own with my Thief (even if occasionally I need a second bite at the cherry – simple thanks to stealth).

With quickness on it takes a couple of seconds max – and let’s not forget we aren’t at some LAN party, we’re dealing with undetermined latency of anything up to a full second.

As a D&D player, I’m quite familiar and comfortable with insta-kills, the difference is that they have hard counters in every single case – maybe it’s unfair to compare a game/system that’s been evolving for 30+ years to this game been out for a few months, but the designers need to pull their heads out of their butt for a moment and act before this becomes Thief Wars 2.

Save my Thief, nerf her

Funny, back stab only hits my engineer for 3k. look at post above.

… Why would a backstab thief have anything besides assassin’s signet, signet of shadows, shadowstep on his hotbar? why does he need quickness?
(at above…)

The guy in question just got mugged and lost almost all his HP, why is he not dodging, he knows your killing him, you act as though you can just heartseeker your way down, is he not doing everything he can to get away?

Please make a video of your character getting instantly killed by a thief, I would also like to see his traits and such

Daecollo.9578:

Funny, back stab only hits my engineer for 3k. look at post above.

Oh please… stop embarrassing yourself – you haven’t discovered some secret nobody else knows about – you ran into the world’s most incompetent Thief -_-

Docherty.8372:

Daecollo.9578:

Funny, back stab only hits my engineer for 3k. look at post above.

Oh please… stop embarrassing yourself – you haven’t discovered some secret nobody else knows about – you ran into the world’s most incompetent Thief -_-

How about this, I timed my abilities to minimize the damage of the thieves backstab combo so it would not kill me.

Such a hard to understand concept, the man can actually prevent damage if he uses the right abilities quickly or builds himself around doing it.

I guess doing such a thing is completely impossible!

Oh never mind, I guess I was just fighting an incompetent thief.

Daecollo.9578:

Oh never mind, I guess I was just fighting an incompetent thief.

Yeah, any Thief who backstabs for that little is rubbish, I don’t care if you have protection up – that is pathetic damage, and your engineer is a laughable excuse for a ‘tank’.

Sorry, but cherry-picking one single attack from some random random PUG PvP, which to any experienced Thief is obviously not optimally tuned, is not going to convince anyone.

Would just like to comment that he rerolled engineer to thief, and now he is thief master. Think you may have missed the larger picture doch, so was giving you some more fodder.

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

Xae.7204:

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcMzM9mMgoLMMgoMM0xax0ckqmcoz8khT70z7070c7kIM70V7ow370m

Follow that directly, you will be a TANK that can put the pain on any thief you come across, flamethrower is the thieves WORSE nightmare? hes stealthed but thieves are ALWAYS in melee range, so if he stealths just flame and run in circles until your combat log hits something.

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

El.
Oh.
El.

You have no clue.

Seriously, I’m cross posting this to the Engineer forum for laughs.

You take conflicting talents. You take broken talents. You ignore good talents. Seriously, this is the funniest thing I have seen in a week.

In that build backstab only hits me for 3578!

If those traits are broken, then why don’t you complain about your class being crappy and not thief being overpowered?

4k? What a from a level 20 thief?
Taking from a 9K base where do you see 50% damage reduction? You didn’t even pick up +toughness for the shield.
You are lying.

Because even if they worked they wouldn’t be that good.

He was a backstab thief in SPVP, he hit me for very little.

I am indeed a liar.

How do you know he was backstab speced?
Maybe he was Condition Damage.

Daecollo.9578:

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

At least you admit that the Thief won’t actually die. I suppose the next step is getting you to acknowledge that having a class with high damage that’s impossible to actually kill is a pretty glaring design flaw.

And no, not everyone cares about “capture the point” scenarios. Getting a Thief to run in WvWvW is a very shallow victory, and odds are it just means the Thief will reappear. Except now you don’t have cooldowns.

Explain to me why this is OK for a class/spec or two to have, but no one else?

I really dislike the stealth implementation in GW2. To illustrate what I think is wrong, I’ll compare it with the spy from Team Fortress 2, which I think is implemented well.

• The game fails to provide enough information about the stealthed player. In TF2, shooting a cloaked spy, or even colliding with the spy, will cause the spy to become visible as a silhouette. You can also set the spy on fire, bleed it, or throw milk/urine on the spy to reveal him. In GW2, the stealthed thief can run around with no substantive risk of detection, which turns combat into a guessing game with no meaningful feedback for the thief’s opponent(s).

• Stealth is too powerful as an escape/harassment tool. In TF2, there is an abundance of ranged AOE damage with low cooldowns (the time it takes to reload). The maps have far more chokepoints than GW2, particularly in WvW. The spy has poor mobility unlike the thief and is even squishier than the thief. As a result, the spy has to play far more meticulously than a GW2 thief, because of numerous mechanics that severely punish a spy whose presence is known to the enemy.

• The spy cannot attack when stealthed. The spy must decloak first, which makes a very noticeable sound, giving the enemy a chance to react before they are attacked. Alternatively, the spy must choose a good place to decloak and approach an enemy with a disguise. It’s a more intelligent, brainy style of play.

I don’t really see a clean way to address all of these issues in GW2 without a complete rework of the class. I think it would have been better if the developers just kept the assassin from GW1, a burst+mobility class without stealth.

voidwater.2064:

I don’t really see a clean way to address all of these issues in GW2 without a complete rework of the class. I think it would have been better if the developers just kept the assassin from GW1, a burst+mobility class without stealth.

Basically, this – the whole thing apparently went wrong on the design board, long before the first line of code was written.

What do I mean? Well, look at the roots of this class and it’s abilities – in D&D, look at how stealth is implemented there:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Stealth

What do we notice? It’s a very complex system with many checks and balances – not saying this is appropriate for GW2, but it does demonstrate the regressive and utterly nonsensical implementation of stealth in GW2.

Here it is less an interesting and flavorsome system than it is a crude client invisibility hack.

I hate to sound mean, but GW2 designers are inexperienced and unimaginative, and need to go back to fantasy-gaming school and learn the lessons of systems developed over the span of decades and millions of hours of play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g&list=UUCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg&index=4
This video pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with stealth.
Its from extra creditz…actual logic, great group of folks.

Nate Rush.6970:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

This video pretty much sums up everything that is wrong with stealth.
Its from extra creditz…actual logic, great group of folks.

Yep, that’s it. That’s exactly my problem with Thief stealth, put delightfully simply with excellent examples.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

At least you admit that the Thief won’t actually die. I suppose the next step is getting you to acknowledge that having a class with high damage that’s impossible to actually kill is a pretty glaring design flaw.

And no, not everyone cares about “capture the point” scenarios. Getting a Thief to run in WvWvW is a very shallow victory, and odds are it just means the Thief will reappear. Except now you don’t have cooldowns.

Explain to me why this is OK for a class/spec or two to have, but no one else?

WvWvW is about capturing points.
Spvp is about capturing points.

What pvp game are you speaking of?

Daecollo.9578:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

At least you admit that the Thief won’t actually die. I suppose the next step is getting you to acknowledge that having a class with high damage that’s impossible to actually kill is a pretty glaring design flaw.

And no, not everyone cares about “capture the point” scenarios. Getting a Thief to run in WvWvW is a very shallow victory, and odds are it just means the Thief will reappear. Except now you don’t have cooldowns.

Explain to me why this is OK for a class/spec or two to have, but no one else?

WvWvW is about capturing points.
Spvp is about capturing points.

What pvp game are you speaking of?

Point systems be kitten I enjoy the thrill of the fight. Is there a legitimate reason why individual fight mechanics must be compromised to serve the point systems you’re hiding behind in an attempt to stalemate the argument?

If you don’t want to have an actual conversation, I’ll go ahead and stop now. However, if you could, watch the video Nate Rush posted, and please tell us all how Stealth has interesting counter-play that creates an enjoyable and rewarding environment for both the Thief and the Thief’s opponent.

I’ll wait.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

At least you admit that the Thief won’t actually die. I suppose the next step is getting you to acknowledge that having a class with high damage that’s impossible to actually kill is a pretty glaring design flaw.

And no, not everyone cares about “capture the point” scenarios. Getting a Thief to run in WvWvW is a very shallow victory, and odds are it just means the Thief will reappear. Except now you don’t have cooldowns.

Explain to me why this is OK for a class/spec or two to have, but no one else?

WvWvW is about capturing points.
Spvp is about capturing points.

What pvp game are you speaking of?

Point systems be kitten I enjoy the thrill of the fight. Is there a legitimate reason why individual fight mechanics must be compromised to serve the point systems you’re hiding behind in an attempt to stalemate the argument?

If you don’t want to have an actual conversation, I’ll go ahead and stop now. However, if you could, watch the video Nate Rush posted, and please tell us all how Stealth has interesting counter-play that creates an enjoyable and rewarding environment for both the Thief and the Thief’s opponent.

I’ll wait.

If thief is such a Godly proffesion ,instant win, how about you roll one and try it on me on any of my alts.I’ll even let you choose.
The other guy stood me up ,maybe you have some bawlls. Or any other guy here that claims Thief is OP.
Lets test that theory.
You’ve got nothing to worry about right? Nothing can kill you if you play a Thief.After all , you can mother kittening STEALTH , for an eternity of 3 seconds.And no one can touch you because you’re invulnerable.And even if you do get hit ,you’ll just instant heal everything back up.Then 1 shot me.
Pfuahahaha I’d pay to see you do it.Hey ,I’ll even bet you on it.100g to any thief here that can instagib me like these whiners here complain.

NightyNight.1823:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Daecollo.9578:

Your almost dead? Switch to heal kit, heal for full, repeat, he will eventually have to run away.

At least you admit that the Thief won’t actually die. I suppose the next step is getting you to acknowledge that having a class with high damage that’s impossible to actually kill is a pretty glaring design flaw.

And no, not everyone cares about “capture the point” scenarios. Getting a Thief to run in WvWvW is a very shallow victory, and odds are it just means the Thief will reappear. Except now you don’t have cooldowns.

Explain to me why this is OK for a class/spec or two to have, but no one else?

WvWvW is about capturing points.
Spvp is about capturing points.

What pvp game are you speaking of?

Point systems be kitten I enjoy the thrill of the fight. Is there a legitimate reason why individual fight mechanics must be compromised to serve the point systems you’re hiding behind in an attempt to stalemate the argument?

If you don’t want to have an actual conversation, I’ll go ahead and stop now. However, if you could, watch the video Nate Rush posted, and please tell us all how Stealth has interesting counter-play that creates an enjoyable and rewarding environment for both the Thief and the Thief’s opponent.

I’ll wait.

If thief is such a Godly proffesion ,instant win, how about you roll one and try it on me on any of my alts.I’ll even let you choose.
The other guy stood me up ,maybe you have some bawlls. Or any other guy here that claims Thief is OP.
Lets test that theory.
You’ve got nothing to worry about right? Nothing can kill you if you play a Thief.After all , you can mother kittening STEALTH , for an eternity of 3 seconds.And no one can touch you because you’re invulnerable.And even if you do get hit ,you’ll just instant heal everything back up.Then 1 shot me.
Pfuahahaha I’d pay to see you do it.Hey ,I’ll even bet you on it.100g to any thief here that can instagib me like these whiners here complain.

Your making us look worse. You can actually do all that, it just isn’t good, because you can’t really hurt your opponent, just troll them to death.