Guild Wars 2

So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.

Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.

Lofat.2406:

Just look at his post history Rylark, pages of posts against thieves. He won’t be happy till thieves are nerfed beyond play, or eliminated from the game.

NO, I’ve stated quite clearly that I want to see stealth cool down timers increased to make up for culling bug abuses.

Columba.9730:

So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.

Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.

How’s that going to fix culling? Increasing the cooldown of stealth won’t fix it, thieves can still spam CnD on non-moving targets and you won’t see them because of culling, even is stealth has 10000sec cooldown.
Yes I don’t feel like stealth needs any changes, only bug fix. And yes I still think perma-stealth is useless, taking it away or not is the same thing for me since is so useless, what’s your point?

Columba.9730:

so if it’s not useful, then why are you arguing so much against changes to stealth, Lol?

So now your trying to shift this to stealth mechanics and not just permastealth builds? Why don’t we focus on the “permastealth god mode build” as you’ve stated before? I really want to understand why you think someone popping black powder and heartseeking through it 3 times, repeatedly, all while not attacking is god mode?

I never said a D/P build is useless… If you paid any attention I implied that popping black powder and heart seeking through it three times was a way to achieve perma stealth. I also stated it was pointless to do that continuously for a whole minute to gain 10-11 seconds of stealth.

why are you guys feeding the trolls here ? seriously ?
should i also complain that thief is weak at pve ?
i would propose that wvw move as pvp, and do all the balance you want there, i don’t care.

Columba.9730:

Lofat.2406:

Just look at his post history Rylark, pages of posts against thieves. He won’t be happy till thieves are nerfed beyond play, or eliminated from the game.

NO, I’ve stated quite clearly that I want to see stealth cool down timers increased to make up for culling bug abuses.

Which doesn’t make sense at all. CLOAK AND DAGGER DOESNT HAVE A COOLDOWN!!!!

Heartseeker doesnt have a cooldown, neither does blackpowder. Your suggestion doesnt make sense because those are the ways most thieves go in stealth.

Do you really wait around when you see a thief pop shadow refuge with the big house on it? If so thats your fault.

So if we take your suggestion and extend the cooldown on stealth then you want to have longer cooldowns on Shadow refuge, Hide in shadows, and Blinding powder!

Shadow refuge is borderline on the elite status along with shadow step almost 1 minute cooldowns for both of them. You want something like 1 minute 30 secs rofl.

DanH.5879:

why are you guys feeding the trolls here ? seriously ?
should i also complain that thief is weak at pve ?

We have been battling it out with columba for a while we know the routine its entertaining though poking holes in his arguments. Nobody wants to go to the wvw section to talk about thieves thats what the thief section is for. Talk about server transfers and consumables like gears and aoe caps in the wvw section.

Actually, we get directed here to provide feedback on thieves. that’s what i am doing. CnD should have a cooldown in wvw due to the culling bug, yes. once they fix the culling bug, then it could be looked at again to determine if its needed.

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.

Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.

How’s that going to fix culling? Increasing the cooldown of stealth won’t fix it, thieves can still spam CnD on non-moving targets and you won’t see them because of culling, even is stealth has 10000sec cooldown.
Yes I don’t feel like stealth needs any changes, only bug fix. And yes I still think perma-stealth is useless, taking it away or not is the same thing for me since is so useless, what’s your point?

my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.

I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.

Columba.9730:

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

So just so that I understand. You think that perma stealth isn’t useful, but you don’t want any changes to prevent perma stealth because they “might” affect other things. It seems to me that slightly increasing stealth cool down timers to preven culling-induced perma stealth wouldn’t affect other things and could balance the game. If thieves don’t really care about perma stealth, and non-thieves do, this would appear to be a classic win-win-win.

Rylark, i asked just the opposite. I know you don’t want any changes to stealth, yet you think perma stealth is useless. I don’t get it.

How’s that going to fix culling? Increasing the cooldown of stealth won’t fix it, thieves can still spam CnD on non-moving targets and you won’t see them because of culling, even is stealth has 10000sec cooldown.
Yes I don’t feel like stealth needs any changes, only bug fix. And yes I still think perma-stealth is useless, taking it away or not is the same thing for me since is so useless, what’s your point?

my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.

I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.

You asked for more cooldown on stealth and yes that’s going to affect me as a thief player, another hole in your argument has been made.

Columba.9730:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

actually not obvious or helpful. Any decent thief moves away from said smoke, and it’s not easy to see. they should make it as glaringly obvious as portals if not more obvious. Lol wth 1900 toughness and 3k armor, backstab hits me for 4500+. NO idea what you are referring to with 1.5k .

Black powder not easy to see? Smokey clouds coming out of a red circle… lol. Only a blind person would not be able to notice it.

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Panacea.4927:

Because some suddenly up popping smoke screens and black powders are totally not obvious…

actually not obvious or helpful. Any decent thief moves away from said smoke, and it’s not easy to see. they should make it as glaringly obvious as portals if not more obvious. Lol wth 1900 toughness and 3k armor, backstab hits me for 4500+. NO idea what you are referring to with 1.5k .

Black powder not easy to see? Smokey clouds coming out of a red circle… lol. Only a blind person would not be able to notice it.

Even a blind guy can spot it by the explosion sound it makes.

Columba.9730:

my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.

I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.

He even admits it’s useless to argue with him, and his only goal is to prevent perma stealth. We pointed out how useless a real permastealth build is, we even debunked his own arguments towards perma stealth. He is the true definition of a troll. There is no arguing with him as he doesn’t understand facts, or others points of view. One track mind, with the goal of nerfing thief to the ground so he can feel special when he wins against one finally.

Lofat.2406:

Columba.9730:

my point is that it’s useless to argue with me, since my only goal is to prevent perma stealth since I deem it imbalancing. You don’t want perma stealth anyway.

I am absolutely not trying to troll you. We have legitimate disagreements, and principled debate is constructive. the developers can review and make their decisions accordingly.

He even admits it’s useless to argue with him, and his only goal is to prevent perma stealth. We pointed out how useless a real permastealth build is, we even debunked his own arguments towards perma stealth. He is the true definition of a troll. There is no arguing with him as he doesn’t understand facts, or others points of view. One track mind, with the goal of nerfing thief to the ground so he can feel special when he wins against one finally.

no. I just don’t agree with perma stealth, and you say it’s useless anyway, so why do you care? If perma stealth is useless, how is reducing it nerfing the thief into the ground? I just don’t understand. I think most reasonable people don’t think that permastealth is good for the game.

Because you have one track mind!!! What you are trying to argue now (since you like to talk in circles) is that if it has no affect then its ok to nerf it. Thats stupid argument lol.

Perma stealth is something you can do but it isn’t broken build the thief just pops around and trolls you can just leave the thief dude. Just walk away whats so hard to understand most thieves will chase for the kill anyway and he will burn his ini doing it giving you the advantage.

Lofat and others are saying that a perma stealth build is something you can do!! Its not optimal its more troll imo. You arent hitting anyone doing it or killing anyone staying perma stealth. So why would you want to nerf something that can’t kill you? Just to nerf it rofl!!

The thief might as well stand there visible and wave its the same thing you just can’t see him. Should we nerf wave too? It can’t kill anybody with it

I care because your solution for nerfing it affects every thief with every build not just thieves that choose to utilize perma stealth builds. Also, you don’t fall into the “most reasonable people” category here. You are clearly anti thief, anti stealth, anti thief dps, anti everything about the thief when it comes to wvw. We all see your post history, just anti thief garbage that you keep hashing over and over again.

I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.

You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.

Leaving assassins behind enemy lines with a little trail of evidence actually sounds like legitimate tactical strategy to me, but that’s just my opinion on it. Besides you can knock someone out of the permanent stealth by having a person walk up to the smoke cloud. If the heartseeker nicks someone, the thief will be revealed. You need a fair amount of room to pull that off.

Maugetarr.6823:

Leaving assassins behind enemy lines with a little trail of evidence actually sounds like legitimate tactical strategy to me, but that’s just my opinion on it. Besides you can knock someone out of the permanent stealth by having a person walk up to the smoke cloud. If the heartseeker nicks someone, the thief will be revealed. You need a fair amount of room to pull that off.

agreed, but with culling unfortunately, that reveal doesn’t happen as it should. this is why thieves aren’t getting complaints from spvp. rather the myriad complaints in this thread alone are from wvwvw.

Columba.9730:

I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.

You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.

You sure are one only track minded, listen carefully. Nerfing something completly USELESS makes no sense since it’ll nerf useless builds that require a bit of stealth to work out.

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Leaving assassins behind enemy lines with a little trail of evidence actually sounds like legitimate tactical strategy to me, but that’s just my opinion on it. Besides you can knock someone out of the permanent stealth by having a person walk up to the smoke cloud. If the heartseeker nicks someone, the thief will be revealed. You need a fair amount of room to pull that off.

agreed, but with culling unfortunately, that reveal doesn’t happen as it should. this is why thieves aren’t getting complaints from spvp. rather the myriad complaints in this thread alone are from wvwvw.

Well, I can say that I’ve never had issues with culling fighting with other thieves. I have much bigger problems with enemy zergs appearing on top of me. It could be your computer or internet at this point. I play with an AMD 990fx, 16 gigs of ram, and a 550 graphics card on a 25up/25down connection. I also use closest target when fighting most enemies unless I’m picking out specific people, in which case I use the mouse targeting.

yeah i have a 670 ftw 2 gig video card, 16gigs ram, SSD and I have culling issues. culling is on their end not ours. I can’t explain how some thieves get perma stealth AND high dps. i can only explain it with culling.

rylark.3418:

Columba.9730:

I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.

You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.

You sure are one only track minded, listen carefully. Nerfing something completly USELESS makes no sense since it’ll nerf useless builds that require a bit of stealth to work out.

so your argument is that we shouldn’t remove something that is completely useless to thieves because it will wreck useless builds? just seeking to understand your point. I guess my question is why would it matter if those are useless builds. Can you prove that it would ruin decent builds?

I suggest to remove Columba as he is totally useless and with that he isnt needed and can freely be removed!

Columba.9730:

I don’t see why slightly increasing cool down timers for stealth will wreck every thief. Anet makes changes all the time, and classes aren’t wrecked. I think the principle of no permastealth is fair and doesn’t require a huge sacrafice on the part of thieves. On the one hand you state that perma stealth isn’t useful, and on the other you claim that a small adjustment to prevent it will suddenly wreck the class. I am trying to reconcile these positions. If you read my history, you’d see me clearly state that nothing else about the thief should be touched until stealth is brought into line.

You may think losing perma stealth isn’t a big deal, but non thiefs do think it would help. Wouldn’t it be wise and reasonable to do that before heavy nerfs are demanded by the player base? I don’t think heavy nerfs are good for the game, so I am trying to help.

Wake up… increasing cool down timers for stealth will do absolutely nothing to a permastealth build since they can’t attack to maintain their perma stealth. Just like the vid I showed you. To maintain “permastealth” a thief pops black powder, heartseeks through it 3 times and then does it all over again. He never once attacks anything because he will lose his stealth. The timers in place are fine since once the thief attacks he is not stealthed and cannot stealth for the duration of the timer. The issue apparently is culling. That is nothing that can be fixed by nerfing any one individual class. So there’s your answer. You can adjust the timer to 10 seconds, even 30 seconds and you will still have perma stealth thieves that do nothing but pop black powder and heartseek through them. Again, your solution is flawed, pointless, and does nothing to a perma stealth build.

Columba.9730:

yeah i have a 670 ftw 2 gig video card, 16gigs ram, SSD and I have culling issues. culling is on their end not ours. I can’t explain how some thieves get perma stealth AND high dps. i can only explain it with culling.

Well with roughly equivalent computers, connection is the only thing I can think would be the difference.

Panacea.4927:

I suggest to remove Columba as he is totally useless and with that he isnt needed and can freely be removed!

Lol, can I “+1” this somehow?

well since thieves and mesmers benefit most from culling and can use it to permastealth, those classes should be adjusted.

Ok so if culling doesn’t help thieves, then why are all of you saying that it’s culling that we have problems with and to wait until culling is fixed before we look at nerfing thieves?

Columba.9730:

I just don’t understand.

Well that’s painfully obvious… Yet you still demand nerfs.

Why anyone here is still responding to you, I don’t know.

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

I just don’t understand.

Well that’s painfully obvious… Yet you still demand nerfs.

Why anyone here is still responding to you, I don’t know.

You took it out of context and made a personal attack. I dont understand his rationale. Who’s calling for nerfs? they said permastealth was useless anyway. I am asking that it be prevented. that’s not a nerf.

So I take 5000 from each heartseeker hit when I have 2100 toughness? You guys say this is ballanced? Lol.

Thieves say: You guys are noobs, you guys suck, we are just average
Everyone else says: Thieves are overpowered, because their hits ignore our toughness.

And of course gerbil brain Anet believes the thieves…

Henrik.7560:

So I take 5000 from each heartseeker hit when I have 2100 toughness? You guys say this is ballanced? Lol.

Thieves say: You guys are noobs, you guys suck, we are just average
Everyone else says: Thieves are overpowered, because their hits ignore our toughness.

And of course gerbil brain Anet believes the thieves…

Mhmm I also play warrior and elementalists. I’ve also played glassy thief and other thieves still failed to kill me.

Really. Thieves are so OP that I enjoy killing them in WvW because I know a lot of thieves aren’t good (there’s a few very good ones though!). The key to beating a class is knowing their fighting style. It’s just something that takes practice! You’ll never get better unless you try hard, right?

By the way, if you need tips on beating thieves, it’s all over this thread. All these pages have hints and direct directions on how to fight thieves, and they work or else people wouldn’t be posting about it.

By the way, culling doesn’t really help the “perma-stealth” trick of HSing through smoke circle. Culling from stealth is around 0.5-1.5s max, definitely not enough to give anything permanent. (If you think about it, if thieves just perma stealth all day long, what can they do? It’s a big “i’m right here!” circle.) Also, perma stealth like this prevents you from doing any damage, and if someone decides to walk near the circle, you’ll hit him and you’ll be low on initiative and will die pretty quickly.
Now, there’s a different type of perma stealth, and that’s just chain CnD. It’s way too weak to do any sustained damage, and killing slowly leads to the possibility of more reinforcements.

You can’t increase stealth reveal buff without a major revamp of the class. Those 3s of reveal is critical to a thief’s HP (well, you still take the same damage when invisi). Changing that reveal timer will mess up all the thieves’ “rhythm”. Yes, rhythm. There’s a rhythm to their combat, and if you haven’t realized it yet, go check it out! I don’t even check when my revealed buff is off because I keep a beat in my head and any duration changes to revealed will definitely require adjusting that is much bigger than you’d think. There’s no need for a “temp” change either. Culling is situational, so temp changes are not going to be balanced.

Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.

Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.

last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.

Columba you’re hilarious… we’ve already discussed the method behind it, how it works, along with a video so it was easier for you to understand what exactly permastealthing is. What did you not understand about it?

Now your complaining cause a thief can hit you for 5k? HAHAHAHAHA!!!! If he’s hitting you, regardless of culling or not, he’s not stealthed anymore, he is able to be targeted and killed. There are probably plenty of reasons you don’t see him but you blame it all on your favorite word “permastealth”. He could be shadow stepping, shadow returning, using infiltrators strike/return, etc. Just because they aren’t standing in front of you waiting for you to notice them doesn’t mean “they are permastealthed omg!!!!”

So, just because other classes and their rhythms have changed means that the thief class has to change? The thief class along with stealth is fine and obviously working as intended. Should they fix culling, yes? But people like you will still QQ about it.

Anyway, just hopped on to feed a troll some dessert. Enjoy… It’s leftovers from our previous discussions…

Maybe a stealth attack should remove stealth at the beginning of the attack
I’m just trying to be constructive at finding a reasonable compromise
This assume that culling for WvW players will be fix
This, with a 1/2sec (or3/4) cast time backstab maybe?
In your opinion how bad/good it would be?

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that stealth needs major adjustments when it comes to pvp.

Revoke.1425:

Maybe a stealth attack should remove stealth at the beginning of the attack
I’m just trying to be constructive at finding a reasonable compromise
This assume that culling for WvW players will be fix
This, with a 1/2sec (or3/4) cast time backstab maybe?
In your opinion how bad/good it would be?

i think that this is a good compromise. seems reasonable.

Columba.9730:

Revoke.1425:

Maybe a stealth attack should remove stealth at the beginning of the attack
I’m just trying to be constructive at finding a reasonable compromise
This assume that culling for WvW players will be fix
This, with a 1/2sec (or3/4) cast time backstab maybe?
In your opinion how bad/good it would be?

i think that this is a good compromise. seems reasonable.

A random attack, not anywhere close to an enemy, would then break stealth.

That would be impossible to code, because it would grant stealth from blast finishers, then immediately end because it did an attack.

I’m sure they could manage it.

Why should blast finisher, that grant stealth, remove stealth?
smoke field is there then I use a blast finisher, then I get a stealth combo
I used an attack skill before vanishing. It was the final effect of that skill (blast in this case) to grant me stealth, is not that way?

Maugetarr.6823:

A random attack, not anywhere close to an enemy, would then break stealth.

Yes it should be so, I mean, we are thieves wich means opportunism and cunning, we shouldn’t rely on “spray and pray the smg way”

Revoke.1425:

Why should blast finisher, that grant stealth, remove stealth?
smoke field is there then I use a blast finisher, then I get a stealth combo
I used an attack skill before vanishing. It was the final effect of that skill (blast in this case) to grant me stealth, is not that way?

I found that hella annoying with cluster bomb, I swear it’s an oversight since I don’t recall Engineer’s having this issue, that and you can damage a foe leaping with HS with no problem and get stealth. Annoying as all hell.

kenshinakh.3672:

Mhmm I also play warrior and elementalists. I’ve also played glassy thief and other thieves still failed to kill me.

Really. Thieves are so OP that I enjoy killing them in WvW because I know a lot of thieves aren’t good (there’s a few very good ones though!). The key to beating a class is knowing their fighting style. It’s just something that takes practice! You’ll never get better unless you try hard, right?

By the way, if you need tips on beating thieves, it’s all over this thread. All these pages have hints and direct directions on how to fight thieves, and they work or else people wouldn’t be posting about it.

By the way, culling doesn’t really help the “perma-stealth” trick of HSing through smoke circle. Culling from stealth is around 0.5-1.5s max, definitely not enough to give anything permanent. (If you think about it, if thieves just perma stealth all day long, what can they do? It’s a big “i’m right here!” circle.) Also, perma stealth like this prevents you from doing any damage, and if someone decides to walk near the circle, you’ll hit him and you’ll be low on initiative and will die pretty quickly.
Now, there’s a different type of perma stealth, and that’s just chain CnD. It’s way too weak to do any sustained damage, and killing slowly leads to the possibility of more reinforcements.

You can’t increase stealth reveal buff without a major revamp of the class. Those 3s of reveal is critical to a thief’s HP (well, you still take the same damage when invisi). Changing that reveal timer will mess up all the thieves’ “rhythm”. Yes, rhythm. There’s a rhythm to their combat, and if you haven’t realized it yet, go check it out! I don’t even check when my revealed buff is off because I keep a beat in my head and any duration changes to revealed will definitely require adjusting that is much bigger than you’d think. There’s no need for a “temp” change either. Culling is situational, so temp changes are not going to be balanced.

Thank you, someone that isn’t a thief and knows the situation of one. I will admit it is hard dealing with thieves cause they have invisibility makes you have to react almost instantly but if you do react he lost quite alot of burst from you reacting by popping invulnerably or if they are HS spamming which people hardly does anymore dodge initial HS and pop a blink or invulnerably and all their iniatives is gone and becomes a easy kill or he runs. like you said in your post more you practice and learn thieves are not as big of a threat as people think they are.

Columba.9730:

Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.

Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.

last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.

Use Tab next time, even if “culling” is there you can target the thief.

Revoke.1425:

Maugetarr.6823:

A random attack, not anywhere close to an enemy, would then break stealth.

Yes it should be so, I mean, we are thieves wich means opportunism and cunning, we shouldn’t rely on “spray and pray the smg way”

Disagree on this point though. Especially after AN just changed how charges are removed from weapons.

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.

Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.

last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.

Use Tab next time, even if “culling” is there you can target the thief.

Thank you. However, that doesn’t really work. I’ve tried.

Columba.9730:

Jerks.3172:

Columba.9730:

Many of us experience culling far longer than 0.5 s. if that’s all it were, there wouldnt so many complaints. Secondly, the so called low dps of a perma stealthed thief is a myth. maybe it’s low compared to other thiefs, but I’ve seen perma thieves dishing out 5k+ hits, even though my armor is 3k and my toughness is 1900. So i guess that’s lower than 10k hits reported by other thief victims, but at 5k a pop, it doesn’t take long for a perma stealther to kill players, particularly when they cannot be targeted.

Last, ive seen CnD do 2-3K damage. that’s not weak.

last last, the rhythm of other classes has been messed up with changes. we had to adapt.

Use Tab next time, even if “culling” is there you can target the thief.

Thank you. However, that doesn’t really work. I’ve tried.

Works for me.

Among many things, I think we can probably agree upon stealth being somewhat of a broken and unbalanced mechanic in GW2.

It removes aggro for the most part, an amazing escape tool, you avoid most damage, great at setting up bursts and combos. It is an amazing offensive and defensive tool all in one. And the fact that thieves can do this almost constantly puts them at a huge advantage offensively and defensively.

For the most part, I don’t really have a problem with thieves constantly stealthing in the sense of setting up their backstabs/offensive skills and what not, this can be avoided by learning how to use camera angles, swinging your weapon, anticipating their position, etc.

But I can’t stand thieves who constantly stealth, get hit for half their health or are getting owned, then stealth again. It is a very unskilled and noob friendly mechanic that does not promote good gameplay at all (as well as being the cause of griefing). Getting owned? Stealth and run away np, getting caught out of position? np stealth away. No map awareness? np stealth, made 10 mistakes? np I still get away cuz i stealthed 2 times in 6 seconds. As opposed to someone like a warrior, where just 1 slight mistake can be the end of them. You can completely outclass a thief, but often times this is not rewarded because you can’t kill them due to multiple stealth abilities. At best, it is a stalemate and the thief can’t kill you either.

To me, it is too much of a “get out of jail free card” of an ability, especially when used and abused repetitively. I don’t really have much of a problem with the damage that a thief does, they are a roamer class, that is what they do, I don’t mind them being a slight cut above other classes in terms of 1v1 scenarios. But the stealth is just ridiculous.

Since I don’t really see any way that GW2 will fix this culling issue, I think once simple thing can be done to balance out stealth. Most MMOs introduce some sort of penalty to using stealth, while GW2 isn’t like any other MMO, GW2 could use a page out of that book.

My suggestion is to perhaps introduce a 30-50% movement decrease while in stealth. I think this would be fair so #1: Thieves can’t simply disengage battles they cannot win as easily, #2: Stealth is used more strategically instead of a panic button mechanic that people just mash and everything will be fine, #3: Promotes better positioning/placement.

Or maybe you take 10% more damage while in stealth or something, but some sort of penalty for using stealth should be implemented to offset the never ending culling issues. And this should apply to all classes who are in stealth mode.

People wonder why thieves use these type of builds, because it is a cut above almost every other build, the gimmick, 3 second burst stealth. While understanding thief mechanics can help tremendously in terms of fighting and dealing with them, GW2 should be promoting more build diversity, instead of making almost all other possible options underwhelming compared to others.

Buff some of their traps, venoms or other utility skills to bring them up to par with the other mechanics. It is a really delicate line in terms of balancing the thief compared to other classes. GW2 needs to make sure they don’t nerf them to the ground but at the same time need to promote more build diversity and rewarding skilled gameplay.