Guild Wars 2

killahmayne.9518:

Among many things, I think we can probably agree upon stealth being somewhat of a broken and unbalanced mechanic in GW2.

It removes aggro for the most part, an amazing escape tool, you avoid most damage, great at setting up bursts and combos. It is an amazing offensive and defensive tool all in one. And the fact that thieves can do this almost constantly puts them at a huge advantage offensively and defensively.

For the most part, I don’t really have a problem with thieves constantly stealthing in the sense of setting up their backstabs/offensive skills and what not, this can be avoided by learning how to use camera angles, swinging your weapon, anticipating their position, etc.

But I can’t stand thieves who constantly stealth, get hit for half their health or are getting owned, then stealth again. It is a very unskilled and noob friendly mechanic that does not promote good gameplay at all (as well as being the cause of griefing). Getting owned? Stealth and run away np, getting caught out of position? np stealth away. No map awareness? np stealth, made 10 mistakes? np I still get away cuz i stealthed 2 times in 6 seconds. As opposed to someone like a warrior, where just 1 slight mistake can be the end of them. You can completely outclass a thief, but often times this is not rewarded because you can’t kill them due to multiple stealth abilities. At best, it is a stalemate and the thief can’t kill you either.

To me, it is too much of a “get out of jail free card” of an ability, especially when used and abused repetitively. I don’t really have much of a problem with the damage that a thief does, they are a roamer class, that is what they do, I don’t mind them being a slight cut above other classes in terms of 1v1 scenarios. But the stealth is just ridiculous.

Since I don’t really see any way that GW2 will fix this culling issue, I think once simple thing can be done to balance out stealth. Most MMOs introduce some sort of penalty to using stealth, while GW2 isn’t like any other MMO, GW2 could use a page out of that book.

My suggestion is to perhaps introduce a 30-50% movement decrease while in stealth. I think this would be fair so #1: Thieves can’t simply disengage battles they cannot win as easily, #2: Stealth is used more strategically instead of a panic button mechanic that people just mash and everything will be fine, #3: Promotes better positioning/placement.

Or maybe you take 10% more damage while in stealth or something, but some sort of penalty for using stealth should be implemented to offset the never ending culling issues. And this should apply to all classes who are in stealth mode.

People wonder why thieves use these type of builds, because it is a cut above almost every other build, the gimmick, 3 second burst stealth. While understanding thief mechanics can help tremendously in terms of fighting and dealing with them, GW2 should be promoting more build diversity, instead of making almost all other possible options underwhelming compared to others.

Buff some of their traps, venoms or other utility skills to bring them up to par with the other mechanics. It is a really delicate line in terms of balancing the thief compared to other classes. GW2 needs to make sure they don’t nerf them to the ground but at the same time need to promote more build diversity and rewarding skilled gameplay.

What is this ability that lets us just stealth and run away?

killahmayne.9518:

My suggestion is to perhaps introduce a 30-50% movement decrease while in stealth. I think this would be fair so #1: Thieves can’t simply disengage battles they cannot win as easily, #2: Stealth is used more strategically instead of a panic button mechanic that people just mash and everything will be fine, #3: Promotes better positioning/placement.

Or maybe you take 10% more damage while in stealth or something, but some sort of penalty for using stealth should be implemented to offset the never ending culling issues. And this should apply to all classes who are in stealth mode.

Problem about these nerf would be, You cant re-position for a back stab since you have only 3 seconds and backstab will only be effective when using steal cloak and dagger combo if you have 30-50% speed debuff and speed debuff from MMO they have a WAY longer stealth timer than 3-4 seconds. As for taking more damage in stealth thieves are usually already super squishy and avoids big battles this would make us stay further away from actually helping groups else we would get random AoE’d to death.

Daecollo.9578:

killahmayne.9518:

Among many things, I think we can probably agree upon stealth being somewhat of a broken and unbalanced mechanic in GW2.

It removes aggro for the most part, an amazing escape tool, you avoid most damage, great at setting up bursts and combos. It is an amazing offensive and defensive tool all in one. And the fact that thieves can do this almost constantly puts them at a huge advantage offensively and defensively.

For the most part, I don’t really have a problem with thieves constantly stealthing in the sense of setting up their backstabs/offensive skills and what not, this can be avoided by learning how to use camera angles, swinging your weapon, anticipating their position, etc.

But I can’t stand thieves who constantly stealth, get hit for half their health or are getting owned, then stealth again. It is a very unskilled and noob friendly mechanic that does not promote good gameplay at all (as well as being the cause of griefing). Getting owned? Stealth and run away np, getting caught out of position? np stealth away. No map awareness? np stealth, made 10 mistakes? np I still get away cuz i stealthed 2 times in 6 seconds. As opposed to someone like a warrior, where just 1 slight mistake can be the end of them. You can completely outclass a thief, but often times this is not rewarded because you can’t kill them due to multiple stealth abilities. At best, it is a stalemate and the thief can’t kill you either.

To me, it is too much of a “get out of jail free card” of an ability, especially when used and abused repetitively. I don’t really have much of a problem with the damage that a thief does, they are a roamer class, that is what they do, I don’t mind them being a slight cut above other classes in terms of 1v1 scenarios. But the stealth is just ridiculous.

Since I don’t really see any way that GW2 will fix this culling issue, I think once simple thing can be done to balance out stealth. Most MMOs introduce some sort of penalty to using stealth, while GW2 isn’t like any other MMO, GW2 could use a page out of that book.

My suggestion is to perhaps introduce a 30-50% movement decrease while in stealth. I think this would be fair so #1: Thieves can’t simply disengage battles they cannot win as easily, #2: Stealth is used more strategically instead of a panic button mechanic that people just mash and everything will be fine, #3: Promotes better positioning/placement.

Or maybe you take 10% more damage while in stealth or something, but some sort of penalty for using stealth should be implemented to offset the never ending culling issues. And this should apply to all classes who are in stealth mode.

People wonder why thieves use these type of builds, because it is a cut above almost every other build, the gimmick, 3 second burst stealth. While understanding thief mechanics can help tremendously in terms of fighting and dealing with them, GW2 should be promoting more build diversity, instead of making almost all other possible options underwhelming compared to others.

Buff some of their traps, venoms or other utility skills to bring them up to par with the other mechanics. It is a really delicate line in terms of balancing the thief compared to other classes. GW2 needs to make sure they don’t nerf them to the ground but at the same time need to promote more build diversity and rewarding skilled gameplay.

What is this ability that lets us just stealth and run away?

Step#1: The ability to press a key or click corresponding with a skill/triggering an innate stealth mechanism through traits that gives you on demand stealth.

Step#2: The ability to orient your camera view using your keyboard or mouse in the opposite direction of the enemy and then pressing the key that allows you to run forwards.

I can’t believe that was actually a serious question lol.

Should I continue with naming every ability that can give a thief stealth?

understood, but other classes are just as squishy and face similar challenges.

rylark.3418:

DanH.5879:

the only way out of this is for a-net to nerf the thief in wvw even more, and give some buffs for pve, deal ???

Isn’t thief supposed to be a PvP class? How’s nerfing PvP and buffing PvE going to work, that’s a stupid deal.

so basically what you are trying to say is we should all reroll thieves in WvWvW because they are a “PvP class” quote on quote?

Columba.9730:

understood, but other classes are just as squishy and face similar challenges.

Other classes have superior ranged skills (1200 range) while thieves are limited to (900 range) you might say this isnt huge difference but its pretty big the fact they only can use their shortbow and when you get damaged you forced to heal right? so you take more damage while healing isnt that counter productive?

Not really. ranged classes get damaged from other ranged classes, so taking damage isn’t solely happening to thieves. Also there are gap closers for melee classes, so all these classes are facing the same challenges.

I wish everyone played thieves, then my necromancer would be so OP.

Columba.9730:

Not really. ranged classes get damaged from other ranged classes, so taking damage isn’t solely happening to thieves. Also there are gap closers for melee classes, so all these classes are facing the same challenges.

In a Group scenrio with your short bow out.
Classes like
Rangers have a push back,daze,traps to counter this
Mesmer have pushback,blink, clones,stealth
Warrior have pushback, tons of cc, hp
Guardian have walls,root, and invul, hp
Ele Blink,invuln, stability with vigor, regen + water heals.
Engi have tons of tricks up their sleeves.
Thief use 3 on ShortBow 4 times or the 5 2 times or Shadow step, try for SR get aoed to death and heal 3 second stealth.

If you havent realized this other than the 3 skill on Short bow they are losing on all the dps while classes like rangers can still fire while dealing with the enemy they just cced.

thieves have cc and stealth though too.

Columba.9730:

thieves have cc and stealth though too.

the only cc from thieves is 3 from and say if they decide to press 2 times and try come back to attack them guess what they get? “Out of Range”. Stealth for 3 seconds woop too strong. What are they going to do after they blow Shadow Step and Shadow Refugee? Not like they are going to come back with say another weapon setup and engage just to get by Aoe without any escaping skills

killahmayne.9518:

Daecollo.9578:

killahmayne.9518:

Among many things, I think we can probably agree upon stealth being somewhat of a broken and unbalanced mechanic in GW2.

It removes aggro for the most part, an amazing escape tool, you avoid most damage, great at setting up bursts and combos. It is an amazing offensive and defensive tool all in one. And the fact that thieves can do this almost constantly puts them at a huge advantage offensively and defensively.

For the most part, I don’t really have a problem with thieves constantly stealthing in the sense of setting up their backstabs/offensive skills and what not, this can be avoided by learning how to use camera angles, swinging your weapon, anticipating their position, etc.

But I can’t stand thieves who constantly stealth, get hit for half their health or are getting owned, then stealth again. It is a very unskilled and noob friendly mechanic that does not promote good gameplay at all (as well as being the cause of griefing). Getting owned? Stealth and run away np, getting caught out of position? np stealth away. No map awareness? np stealth, made 10 mistakes? np I still get away cuz i stealthed 2 times in 6 seconds. As opposed to someone like a warrior, where just 1 slight mistake can be the end of them. You can completely outclass a thief, but often times this is not rewarded because you can’t kill them due to multiple stealth abilities. At best, it is a stalemate and the thief can’t kill you either.

To me, it is too much of a “get out of jail free card” of an ability, especially when used and abused repetitively. I don’t really have much of a problem with the damage that a thief does, they are a roamer class, that is what they do, I don’t mind them being a slight cut above other classes in terms of 1v1 scenarios. But the stealth is just ridiculous.

Since I don’t really see any way that GW2 will fix this culling issue, I think once simple thing can be done to balance out stealth. Most MMOs introduce some sort of penalty to using stealth, while GW2 isn’t like any other MMO, GW2 could use a page out of that book.

My suggestion is to perhaps introduce a 30-50% movement decrease while in stealth. I think this would be fair so #1: Thieves can’t simply disengage battles they cannot win as easily, #2: Stealth is used more strategically instead of a panic button mechanic that people just mash and everything will be fine, #3: Promotes better positioning/placement.

Or maybe you take 10% more damage while in stealth or something, but some sort of penalty for using stealth should be implemented to offset the never ending culling issues. And this should apply to all classes who are in stealth mode.

People wonder why thieves use these type of builds, because it is a cut above almost every other build, the gimmick, 3 second burst stealth. While understanding thief mechanics can help tremendously in terms of fighting and dealing with them, GW2 should be promoting more build diversity, instead of making almost all other possible options underwhelming compared to others.

Buff some of their traps, venoms or other utility skills to bring them up to par with the other mechanics. It is a really delicate line in terms of balancing the thief compared to other classes. GW2 needs to make sure they don’t nerf them to the ground but at the same time need to promote more build diversity and rewarding skilled gameplay.

What is this ability that lets us just stealth and run away?

Step#1: The ability to press a key or click corresponding with a skill/triggering an innate stealth mechanism through traits that gives you on demand stealth.

Step#2: The ability to orient your camera view using your keyboard or mouse in the opposite direction of the enemy and then pressing the key that allows you to run forwards.

I can’t believe that was actually a serious question lol.

Should I continue with naming every ability that can give a thief stealth?

Which skill is that?

I only see Signet of Shadows/Shadowstep/Assassin’s Signet on my utility bar.

I can probably run away, but I can’t run away + stealth.

Here we have my Mesmer get killed before the Thief even becomes visible on the screen. 11k just from the backstab and I’m wearing full exotics with ascended pieces.

The thief uses the well-known combination of:

• Cast cloak and dagger
• Steal right before it finishes the cast so both hit instantly and they are stealthed
• Backstab

I was in the middle of fighting at a tower when suddenly just dead. No thief was visible until 2 seconds after I was down and then only long enough to cloak and dagger to stealth again to down me.

5.3k, 5.1k, and then 11.3k and I never got to see him and it happened in a second at most.

Tonight, from the gear, you can see I was more glassy than when on my tanky ranger, but even then I should at least have the chance to pop distortion, blink, etc.. A chance to actually see my opponent and react.

On my ranger, who can always be found in full exotic with lots of toughness (knights) and with 30 wilderness survival (300 more toughness) loses at least half his hp to this combination and then the thief continues stealthing and backstabbing. With a ranger pet, the stealth is even worse. Often it only takes the initial combo plus 1 to 2 more stealths and he’s down. Perhaps they are just lucky when hitting my tanky character :-/ Lol

Combat in GW2 was advertised as being able to actually fight your opponent and watch each other’s animations to do so. This is broken when you fight a non-baddie thief.

Furthermore, the ways you counter the thief’s burst are on longer cooldowns than the thief’s initiative regenerates and they have the stealth, mobility, and ability to shed conditions (via stealth) to reset the fight quite easily.

Sebrent.3625:

Here we have my Mesmer get killed before the Thief even becomes visible on the screen. 11k just from the backstab and I’m wearing full exotics with ascended pieces.

The thief uses the well-known combination of:

• Cast cloak and dagger
• Steal right before it finishes the cast so both hit instantly and they are stealthed
• Backstab

I was in the middle of fighting at a tower when suddenly just dead. No thief was visible until 2 seconds after I was down and then only long enough to cloak and dagger to stealth again to down me.

5.3k, 5.1k, and then 11.3k and I never got to see him and it happened in a second at most.

Tonight, from the gear, you can see I was more glassy than when on my tanky ranger, but even then I should at least have the chance to pop distortion, blink, etc.. A chance to actually see my opponent and react.

On my ranger, who can always be found in full exotic with lots of toughness (knights) and with 30 wilderness survival (300 more toughness) loses at least half his hp to this combination and then the thief continues stealthing and backstabbing. With a ranger pet, the stealth is even worse. Often it only takes the initial combo plus 1 to 2 more stealths and he’s down. Perhaps they are just lucky when hitting my tanky character :-/ Lol

---

Combat in GW2 was advertised as being able to actually fight your opponent and watch each other’s animations to do so. This is broken when you fight a non-baddie thief.

Furthermore, the ways you counter the thief’s burst are on longer cooldowns than the thief’s initiative regenerates and they have the stealth, mobility, and ability to shed conditions (via stealth) to reset the fight quite easily.

¹ First of all, you don’t have vitality.
² You are in full Berserker’s Gear. (Glass Cannon, no toughness.)
³ You Are in Light Armor.
⁴ You probably don’t have any defensive traits.

You deserve to die instantly.

If you caught a thief off guard, you could probably kill them instantly as well.

he has vitality. he has decent toughness. why does he deserve to die instantly? his objection is he never sees the character that kills him.

Columba.9730:

he has vitality. he has decent toughness. why does he deserve to die instantly? his objection is he never sees the character that kills him.

He deserves to die instantly because the thief did his job. He said he was in the middle of fighting at a tower, guess he was too distracted and the thief got the better of him…

Sebrent.3625:

Here we have my Mesmer get killed before the Thief even becomes visible on the screen. 11k just from the backstab and I’m wearing full exotics with ascended pieces.

The thief uses the well-known combination of:

• Cast cloak and dagger
• Steal right before it finishes the cast so both hit instantly and they are stealthed
• Backstab

I was in the middle of fighting at a tower when suddenly just dead. No thief was visible until 2 seconds after I was down and then only long enough to cloak and dagger to stealth again to down me.

5.3k, 5.1k, and then 11.3k and I never got to see him and it happened in a second at most.

Tonight, from the gear, you can see I was more glassy than when on my tanky ranger, but even then I should at least have the chance to pop distortion, blink, etc.. A chance to actually see my opponent and react.

On my ranger, who can always be found in full exotic with lots of toughness (knights) and with 30 wilderness survival (300 more toughness) loses at least half his hp to this combination and then the thief continues stealthing and backstabbing. With a ranger pet, the stealth is even worse. Often it only takes the initial combo plus 1 to 2 more stealths and he’s down. Perhaps they are just lucky when hitting my tanky character :-/ Lol

---

Combat in GW2 was advertised as being able to actually fight your opponent and watch each other’s animations to do so. This is broken when you fight a non-baddie thief.

Furthermore, the ways you counter the thief’s burst are on longer cooldowns than the thief’s initiative regenerates and they have the stealth, mobility, and ability to shed conditions (via stealth) to reset the fight quite easily.

Being instagibbed is no fun and should not be in the game, but I assure you that with your gear and setup, I would have done the same 1 second kill to you on an Engi (100nades), warrior (100blades), Elementalist (GC burst) and Guardian (GC burst). I know this because I play them all in PvP on instagib builds.

The big problem with making adjustments to ensure no instagibbing is that it would inconvenience some classes but gut the thief entirely. Fiddle with stealth and the class needs a total rework… remove the instagib damage and the class needs a total rework. Switch off GC capabilities of engis, guardians and elementalists and I think we can all agree they just move to better specs. See the problem?

The biggest killer in PvP is lack of situational awareness and no instagib chain is initiated from stealth (well apart from the engi if you want to be that big a kitten about it).

No I don’t see the problem. Are you claiming that any minor change would decimate thieves? Why can other classes live with minor changes, but somehow thieves can’t?

Columba.9730:

No I don’t see the problem. Are you claiming that any minor change would decimate thieves? Why can other classes live with minor changes, but somehow thieves can’t?

Because any change to stealth isn’t minor. It’s how the class was developed.

Columba.9730:

No I don’t see the problem. Are you claiming that any minor change would decimate thieves? Why can other classes live with minor changes, but somehow thieves can’t?

You aren’t going to get it until you play it. It’s not a glib statement… it’s the same for every class… I only played an engineer because one instagibbed me and I was impressed.

Nefar.8135:

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that stealth needs major adjustments when it comes to pvp.

Just this. I mean, Thieves are fairly fightable to anyone knowing he’ll come around, they’re even immensely prone to brutal counter attacks. However the current stealth mechanics coupled with the absurd mobility grant them a bit too much forgiveness even if they’re doing poorly.

A lot of classes can do instagibs.

Only one can do it while invisible.

Honestly, a lot of disingenuous thieves in here. Stop hanging on to OP mechanics. Thief is too forgiving for bad players, because it has too many outs with stealth.

I play a thief and along with D/D ele and shatter mesmer, I feel like a total god when doing so, because it’s OP.

I also play guardian bunker (slightly OP) and warrior (not OP). I’ve also played necro and engi, much more reasonable and balanced classes.

The OP stuff comes in 2 varieties:

a) too much damage avoidance (ele, mesmer, thief)
b) too much sustain (ele, slightly guardian)

I had plenty of toughness, thank you.

Also, when did it become a requirement to not only have top-end gear but a specific set, otherwise someone can kill you without you even seeing them?

Warrior 100 blades, Engineer grenades, glass Ele, etc. all have one huge factor in common … you have a chance to see them coming and can dodge roll, block, etc..

With the thief, no amount of situational awareness is going to let me know that he has targeted me instead of the 10 other people there. The only indicator is suddenly being killed by an invisible opponent. <sarcasm>I guess I should have been using dodge rolls, distortion, etc. any time I so much as thought any player on the other team was looking at me…</sarcasm>

Sebrent.3625:

I had plenty of toughness, thank you.

Also, when did it become a requirement to not only have top-end gear but a specific set, otherwise someone can kill you without you even seeing them?

Warrior 100 blades, Engineer grenades, glass Ele, etc. all have one huge factor in common … you have a chance to see them coming and can dodge roll, block, etc..

With the thief, no amount of situational awareness is going to let me know that he has targeted me instead of the 10 other people there. The only indicator is suddenly being killed by an invisible opponent. <sarcasm>I guess I should have been using dodge rolls, distortion, etc. any time I so much as thought any player on the other team was looking at me…</sarcasm>

Thinking “he’s not going to hit me” and getting punished for it is your fault. Sure it was probably an indiscriminant choice on the thief’s part, but you’re the one who dropped your guard. Thief’s and his predicessor Assassin’s job has always been to target squishy supports in the enemy ranks, and to burst them down and get away.

Dual.8953:

Sebrent.3625:

I had plenty of toughness, thank you.

Also, when did it become a requirement to not only have top-end gear but a specific set, otherwise someone can kill you without you even seeing them?

Warrior 100 blades, Engineer grenades, glass Ele, etc. all have one huge factor in common … you have a chance to see them coming and can dodge roll, block, etc..

With the thief, no amount of situational awareness is going to let me know that he has targeted me instead of the 10 other people there. The only indicator is suddenly being killed by an invisible opponent. <sarcasm>I guess I should have been using dodge rolls, distortion, etc. any time I so much as thought any player on the other team was looking at me…</sarcasm>

Thinking “he’s not going to hit me” and getting punished for it is your fault. Sure it was probably an indiscriminant choice on the thief’s part, but you’re the one who dropped your guard. Thief’s and his predicessor Assassin’s job has always been to target squishy supports in the enemy ranks, and to burst them down and get away.

(1) There is a difference between “Burst” and “Insta-gib” where the enemy is invis for the whole 1 sec it takes.

(2) My defenses were not down. I’m a bloody mesmer with 3 stunbreakers, distortion, blocks, etc.. Those weren’t on cooldown. Those were ready for the first person who wanted to fight me. Unfortunately, you don’t get to fight a stealth thief. They insta-gib you or constantly restealth and tear you down in chunks.

Let’s be honest, this stuff happening was why the thief got a change to their signet. However, it is still happening to even well-geared players so the fix did not work.

To those complaining about stealth:

I understand the frustration. I think a lot of it comes from constant target-drop (which is especially annoying on mesmers), and the fact that there are still many people who don’t understand what a thief is trying to do or where he is going in stealth. I personally didn’t really understand it either until I played a thief myself.

Here is a very basic general guide that will help you most thieves out there:

1. If a thief is using a melee weapon and is not already on the defensive (about to die), 99% of the time, they are heading for your back. DO NOT turn and run. Good thieves will use steal, shadowstep, or Infil. Signet precasted with backstab (or Tac Strike) to land it on you with 0 risk to themselves. Instead, wait a second, then turn and use your number 1 chain while moving as erratically as possible. This makes it incredibly hard to land a solid backstab, and the thief will likely eat a LOT of damage in the process of trying to line you up.

2. If a thief pops Shadow Refuge, they are likely trying to heal up, get away, or both. At this point, if you know what you’re doing the thief is practically a free kill. No AoE? Walk up to the circle and spam 1. When you see your animation chain completing, you are hitting the thief! If a thief is already low health, it will usually only take 1 – 2 chains to drop them. If your chain is completing repeatedly, and they are still stealthed, they are likely already downed. Wait for them to appear or just kill them.

3. For melee thieves, CC is a sure way to victory. Most thieves have 1 or 0 stun breaks. Also, even soft CC hurts thieves A LOT. Cripple, chill, and immobilize, while curable, screws with a thief’s rhythm and forces them on the defensive early. If all you have is cripple, a melee thief is still easily kited. When they pop a stealth util, go in for melee autoattacks.

You don’t even need to spam AoE, although this works very well if you’re a trap ranger, necro with a staff, hammer warrior, GS guardian, whatever.

The key is simply knowing where they are likely going, which in almost all cases is right to your spine. Turning and smacking them completely ruins this plan. It sounds too simple to work, but I kill almost ALL the thieves I encounter while they are in stealth with simple auto-attacks. Nothing fancy required. I actually prefer when thieves stealth around me, because I treat it as a way to get free shots on them while they are not doing nearly as much DPS to me.

Sebrent.3625:

Dual.8953:

Sebrent.3625:

I had plenty of toughness, thank you.

Also, when did it become a requirement to not only have top-end gear but a specific set, otherwise someone can kill you without you even seeing them?

Warrior 100 blades, Engineer grenades, glass Ele, etc. all have one huge factor in common … you have a chance to see them coming and can dodge roll, block, etc..

With the thief, no amount of situational awareness is going to let me know that he has targeted me instead of the 10 other people there. The only indicator is suddenly being killed by an invisible opponent. <sarcasm>I guess I should have been using dodge rolls, distortion, etc. any time I so much as thought any player on the other team was looking at me…</sarcasm>

Thinking “he’s not going to hit me” and getting punished for it is your fault. Sure it was probably an indiscriminant choice on the thief’s part, but you’re the one who dropped your guard. Thief’s and his predicessor Assassin’s job has always been to target squishy supports in the enemy ranks, and to burst them down and get away.

(1) There is a difference between “Burst” and “Insta-gib” where the enemy is invis for the whole 1 sec it takes.

(2) My defenses were not down. I’m a bloody mesmer with 3 stunbreakers, distortion, blocks, etc.. Those weren’t on cooldown. Those were ready for the first person who wanted to fight me. Unfortunately, you don’t get to fight a stealth thief. They insta-gib you or constantly restealth and tear you down in chunks.

Let’s be honest, this stuff happening was why the thief got a change to their signet. However, it is still happening to even well-geared players so the fix did not work.

Your guard was down because you were on the attack with a group. You were focused on attacking instead of covering your vulnerabilities. So the thief got you purely out of opportunity. Struck you when you least expected it.
In any case you should also realize WvW is never a fair fight. The thief that got you may have been using food, could have had Ascended gear, and a bunch of other PvE goodies.
If I’m able to survive BS thieves on my level 16 Mes just by being ready to react to and threat, you’ve got no excuse. And when I got on my thief later (and for the record I run Vit/Tough/Crit, Sword/Dagger, 15000 HP) Me and another player got simultaneously insta-gibbed by an instant confusion stack from the mesmer we were skirmishing, hit for multiple hits of 4500.

Get some Toughness.

Just a question to all those omg a glassthief bursted me down in wvwvw while we where fighting in a zerg situation, how often does this type of thief actually get the stomp off in those situations with quickness maybe and then straight port out or die aswell, but it seems a lot of people here are forgetting that downed state is also part of the balance and the battle doesn’t end on a simple down in those situations.

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Columba.9730:

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Thieves have already received numerous nerfs to the point where the devs have started giving small buffs to mobility to compensate. If steath weren’t a main feature if the thief, the devs wouldn’t keep stating that it is in their balancing philosophy and furthermore there wouldn’t be an entire traitline almost dedicated to entering/maintaining stealth which is tied to the toughness and healing power traits as well.

It’s unreasonable to claim that stealth can never be touched. besides the nerfs were in spvp. the wvw nerfs were trivial. based on the length of this thread, they clearly weren’t enough. nevertheless I think that anet should adjust stealth first. it’s the game breaker in wvw right now.

LionZero.3479:

Just a question to all those omg a glassthief bursted me down in wvwvw while we where fighting in a zerg situation, how often does this type of thief actually get the stomp off in those situations with quickness maybe and then straight port out or die aswell, but it seems a lot of people here are forgetting that downed state is also part of the balance and the battle doesn’t end on a simple down in those situations.

You deserve more likes.

Columba.9730:

the wvw nerfs were trivial.

Spot on, 50% damage reduction on dancing dagger is like a drop in the bucket.

Columba.9730:

based on the length of this thread, they clearly weren’t enough.

1/3 of this thread is you repeating the same falsehoods, like saying them over and over again will make them true.

Columba.9730:

…I think that anet should adjust stealth first. it’s the game breaker in wvw right now.

Because wvw revolves around 1v1, where you seem to be having the most trouble, right? If thief is as easy as you make it out to be, I still want to see the video where you do it. You are leading the charge on the QQ-Crew, I’m sure you’re quite familiar with the class!

Columba.9730:

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Go take.
S/P + P/P
P/P + SB
or S/P +SB.
No stealth heal or utils.
Go run in WvW and try for the keep.
Know no one will ever lose target on you and you don’t have protection.
Go dodge all you want since you’re not doing anything significant to anybody while you do so. Not like you have Phantasm’s attacking while you dodge, or a Pet coming at you.
Serious you’ll see how narrow the defenses of the proffession are and the relevancy of stealth.

Should not form an idea on where Stealth needs to be if you have not seen what life without Stealth is. It’s just a bunch of dodging around without seperable damage and dying once sneezed on because target never breaks, so you have all this homing crap on you without Protection reducing any of it or a high hp buffer.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Go take.
S/P + P/P
P/P + SB
or S/P +SB.
No stealth heal or utils.
Go run in WvW and try for the keep.
Know no one will ever lose target on you and you don’t have protection.
Go dodge all you want since you’re not doing anything significant to anybody while you do so. Not like you have Phantasm’s attacking while you dodge, or a Pet coming at you.
Serious you’ll see how narrow the defenses of the proffession are and the relevancy of stealth.

Should not form an idea on where Stealth needs to be if you have not seen what life without Stealth is. It’s just a bunch of dodging around without seperable damage and dying once sneezed on because target never breaks, so you have all this homing crap on you without Protection reducing any of it or a high hp buffer.

Very well put, stealth is absolutely vital to thieves defenses and the fact we only have 1 breakstun.

no one is talking about eliminating stealth. small adjustments won’t kill your class, and they will make wvwvw far more fair. permastealth and the best dps in the game, combined with high mobility are a bad combination in one class.

Columba.9730:

no one is talking about eliminating stealth. small adjustments won’t kill your class, and they will make wvwvw far more fair. permastealth and the best dps in the game, combined with high mobility are a bad combination in one class.

You do realize permastealth is only doable if you have about 20 into shadow arts, not all thieves run shadow arts. Shadow art = throw away damage how is this highest dps?
Also perma stealthing does nothing to oppositions cause they arent doing any damage.

Stop with these QQing you come up with the same arguments all the time and you refuse and block out the answer people gave to you.

thanks for admitting that it’s possible. secondly, with culling it’s doable without giving up anything.

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Go take.
S/P + P/P
P/P + SB
or S/P +SB.
No stealth heal or utils.
Go run in WvW and try for the keep.
Know no one will ever lose target on you and you don’t have protection.
Go dodge all you want since you’re not doing anything significant to anybody while you do so. Not like you have Phantasm’s attacking while you dodge, or a Pet coming at you.
Serious you’ll see how narrow the defenses of the proffession are and the relevancy of stealth.

Should not form an idea on where Stealth needs to be if you have not seen what life without Stealth is. It’s just a bunch of dodging around without seperable damage and dying once sneezed on because target never breaks, so you have all this homing crap on you without Protection reducing any of it or a high hp buffer.

I don’t buy it. Every class has a narrow window of performance, thieves are no exception. What you are arguing is that no changes to stealth can ever take place because the class is too narrowly balanced. I disagree. That’s simply impossible and unreasonable as an expectation. small changes won’t break the class. Small changes to stealth can and will be made.

Columba.9730:

thanks for admitting that it’s possible. secondly, with culling it’s doable without giving up anything.

When did i ever say permastealth is not possible.? Now you argue culling and I also gave you a answer to this before just use “tab” and find the “miss” you will find him and kill him if he isnt on shadow art spec. Due to 3 seconds cloak / No iniatiave regen upon stealthing. He will run out of iniatiave and will be forced to pop SR if he wants to continue stealthing here is where you nuke the crap out of it. Easy as pie.

Now stop bring the same arguments over and over again.

Tab doesn’t work when the target is culled. that’s part of the problem with stealth in this game. it allows stealthers to bridge non-stealth periods with stealth periods to get perma stealth even though they don’t have to spec for it.

Columba.9730:

Tab doesn’t work when the target is culled. that’s part of the problem with stealth in this game. it allows stealthers to bridge non-stealth periods with stealth periods to get perma stealth even though they don’t have to spec for it.

You clearly never played a thief and yet your crying nerfs when you don’t even understand the class traits and skills.It does work.. i have done this many times when vsing invisibility characters and others have too. Please just stop trying to continue when there is a answer to this.

There you go again with perma stleath when i just clearly explained it to you if you dont spec on shadow arts.

Here i’ll even post it again for you this is what i said

Due to 3 seconds cloak / No iniatiave regen upon stealthing. He will run out of iniatiave and will be forced to pop SR if he wants to continue stealthing

This whole thread has become people trying to reason with Columba.

Guys you’re arguing with a brick wall…

The guy is on a crusade, he can’t handle thieves in game, so he’s trying to ruin them out of game.

I play a thief. I play it a lot, in every part of the game.

Stealth is OP.

It makes recovering from mistakes too easy, and makes bad players think they’re good.

Other changes can come, like more group utility or more survivability out of stealth. But stealth itself does need a nerf.

The problem with your position is that the evidence is against you. both the videos splashed all over these forums, and our personal experience refute your assertion that permastealth while dealing damage is impossible. I agree that on paper it’s impossible, but in reality it happens all the time. I suppose bridging culling with stealth allows it. I think this is the crux of the issue. Theory says this shouldnt be possible, yet we all experience permastealth + damage from thieves all the time. If anet prevents this, I think the arguments would reduce.

Columba.9730:

The problem with your position is that the evidence is against you. both the videos splashed all over these forums, and our personal experience refute your assertion that permastealth while dealing damage is impossible. I agree that on paper it’s impossible, but in reality it happens all the time. I suppose bridging culling with stealth allows it. I think this is the crux of the issue. Theory says this shouldnt be possible, yet we all experience permastealth + damage from thieves all the time. If anet prevents this, I think the arguments would reduce.

Revealed mechanics, google it. How come i kill allmost every single thief i fight ? If he dont get chicken kitten and runs away. Yes u can target even if hes culled, yes there is black smoke animation everytime he leaves stealth (not culled state), yes you can damage him even if hes stealthed/culled. And yes im a thief myself. Get over it.

it’s been shown that tab targetting doesn’t work while targets are culled. I’ve tried it myself.

Columba.9730:

The problem with your position is that the evidence is against you. both the videos splashed all over these forums, and our personal experience refute your assertion that permastealth while dealing damage is impossible. I agree that on paper it’s impossible, but in reality it happens all the time. I suppose bridging culling with stealth allows it. I think this is the crux of the issue. Theory says this shouldnt be possible, yet we all experience permastealth + damage from thieves all the time. If anet prevents this, I think the arguments would reduce.

Its not perma stealthing all the videos you showed is them perma stealthing but are they doing any damage? No and the videos of perma stealthing is there i say it again at least 20 into shadow arts, without shadow arts you will run out of iniatiave and be force to pop SR here i am repeating myself since you simply don’t understand it, not all thieves run shadow arts.

Now you are arguing permastealth and getting jib but this is simply not true you can tell when a thief is near by cause you can hear their unstealth sound, so you should be on your guard with breakstuns/blinks to counter act his “ok” damage burst which should be easily countered unless your a glass cannon yourself which then you are just asking to get killed.

Its called the CnD steal combo.If you say culling it has nothing to do with just the thief class mesmer can can mass cloak maybe you should complain in mesmer forums also making zergs pop out of no where right?

Columba.9730:

it’s been shown that tab targetting doesn’t work while targets are culled. I’ve tried it myself.

It does work i have done it myself and many has too. This is how i find stealth classes when culling hits. The only time it wont work is when they are still offically in “stealth” not being culled.

xiv.7136:

It makes recovering from mistakes too easy, and makes bad players think they’re good.

^ totally this. Bad players love the stealth mechanic, running around during a fight being invisible, untargetable.