Guild Wars 2

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

Lol right? I honestly can’t tell if he is an elaborate troll or just a really bad thief.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

Lol right? I honestly can’t tell if he is an elaborate troll or just a really bad thief.

Yeah, sure – I’d love to know where the teleports come from though.
And don’t come with “shadowstep”, please that’s one teleport.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

Lol right? I honestly can’t tell if he is an elaborate troll or just a really bad thief.

Yeah, sure – I’d love to know where the teleports come from though.

…… You’re kidding right?

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

Lol right? I honestly can’t tell if he is an elaborate troll or just a really bad thief.

Yeah, sure – I’d love to know where the teleports come from though.
And don’t come with “shadowstep”, please that’s one teleport.

Please tell me you don’t play thief lol.
because that’s just embarrassing..

Oh my, what are you rangers all doing here?
D/P has got no teleports, S/D and S/P have.
Every thief has got potential access to shadowstep but I wouldn’t call that “tons of teleports”
So, enlighten me, please.

Jana.6831:

Oh my, what are you rangers all doing here?
D/P has got no teleports, S/D and S/P have.
Every thief has got potential access to shadowstep but I wouldn’t call that “tons of teleports”
So, enlighten me, please.

D/P has no teleports…..

ok, i feel sorry for the thief community..i feel really sorry

Go read the skill tool tips for the D/P meta build.

Hint: 4 of them will say teleport.

Edit: That’s not even counting if you run shortbow for your off set

No, I’m good actually as I main thief and not ranger, so no matter what you guys think: I know my class.

Jana.6831:

No, I’m good actually as I main thief and not ranger, so no matter what you guys think: I know my class.

Yes clearly… so did you figure out what skills let you teleport yet?

LOL this guys is hilarious

steal doesnt teleport
shadowshot doesnt teleport

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

No, I’m good actually as I main thief and not ranger, so no matter what you guys think: I know my class.

Yes clearly… so did you figure out what skills let you teleport yet?

I know them actually – you are the ones who don’t name them, so I guess you don’t know them. Anyway; I should’ve stayed with my initial response as you don’t want to discuss but claim that thief is OP because even a weaponset that has got no teleports hast got tons of them!!

Narkodx.1472:

LOL this guys is hilarious

steal doesnt teleport
shadowshot doesnt teleport

I’m a gal actually and I don’t call that teleports – to me shadowstep and S/D, S/P are teleports and maybe even SB 5 as they can have defensive means. Steal and pistol 3 just mean that you get close to your enemy – can be annoying yes, but in 95% of all cases that’s not defensive. Against medi guards (f.e.) you need tons of defenses, so better port away from them.

It doesn’t matter what you consider a teleport

The game says they are so they are

The blind that accompanies shadow shot is defensive – it is also unblockable FYI

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

No, I’m good actually as I main thief and not ranger, so no matter what you guys think: I know my class.

Yes clearly… so did you figure out what skills let you teleport yet?

I know them actually – you are the ones who don’t name them, so I guess you don’t know them. Anyway; I should’ve stayed with my initial response as you don’t want to discuss but claim that thief is OP because even a weaponset that has got no teleports hast got tons of them!!

Hahahahaha… whoa you almost tricked me into naming them, kitten you are clever.
Another hint since the one I gave you earlier didn’t help. 1 of the teleports is a weapon skill, so…. once again you are wrong.

Also please show me in this thread where I claimed thieves are OP. I am arguing that they do just fine in a 1v1 situation, that in no way makes them OP. You do know that a class can be viable right? It doesn’t automatically have to be categorized as over powered or under powered.

Jana.6831:

Narkodx.1472:

LOL this guys is hilarious

steal doesnt teleport
shadowshot doesnt teleport

I’m a gal actually and I don’t call that teleports – to me shadowstep and S/D, S/P are teleports and maybe even SB 5 as they can have defensive means. Steal and pistol 3 just mean that you get close to your enemy – can be annoying yes, but in 95% of all cases that’s not defensive. Against medi guards (f.e.) you need tons of defenses, so better port away from them.

ummm you know this thread is about thieves in WvW right? Have you ever looked around in WvW? Do you know what is everywhere? Npc’s and ambients that you can target and port to.

Shadow shot and steal are teleports behaviorally. They ignore denial effects, leap effects, ground-targeted effects, and so on.

D/P is honestly the powerful set that it is because of the fact that it can spam 3 for a high damage coefficient teleporting blind, has access to permanent stealth uptime, access to a near-infinite amount of blinds if managed correctly, and repeated heal/skill interrupts from range while recovering.

D/P is strong, especially when paired with SA, because it gets all of the utility the class does not have elsewhere which many other classes do (and in this case more), on effectively no cooldowns where a multitude of strategies can be employed to exploit your opponent’s weaknesses.

Soldier’s thief works a lot better than people might expect. The critical damage loss since the nerf to critical damage has promoted tankier play even more in WvW seeing as the gains end up almost negligible and power ends up substantially higher when fueled off of food items. I’ve run soldier’s thief and still manage around 8k backstabs with absolutely silly durability relative to berserker/valkyrie.

DeceiverX.8361:

Shadow shot and steal are teleports behaviorally. They ignore denial effects, leap effects, ground-targeted effects, and so on.

D/P is honestly the powerful set that it is because of the fact that it can spam 3 for a high damage coefficient teleporting blind with permanent available stealth uptime and repeated heal/skill interrupts from range while recovering.

Soldier’s thief works a lot better than people might expect. The critical damage loss since the nerf to critical damage has promoted tankier play even more in WvW seeing as the gains end up almost negligible and power ends up substantially higher when fueled off of food items. I’ve run soldier’s thief and still manage around 8k backstabs with absolutely silly durability relative to berserker/valkyrie.

Well, if I want to get away from someone I don’t use shadowshot. And I want to get away from necros, elementalists, medi guards and engineers.
I have been soldier’s before april, D/P actually, at least when roaming and I lost to each and everybody after the nerf. I started to win again when I used my valk gear (trinkets have always been zerker) – no tanky thief has won against me – ever.

Jana.6831:

Well, if I want to get away from someone I don’t use shadowshot. And I want to get away from necros, elementalists, medi guards and engineers.

You can’t call the profession bad when you fail to use the tools provided to you.

Whether or not it is being used as an escape does not change the fact that the skill is a teleport. It also allows for faster re-engages instead of steal, allows you to get past denial to finish off a weak foe, and so on.

Necros, eles, and even medi guards should not be problems with your build. You play SA and should be able to sustain easily against them. Medi guards die to shortbow and quick follow-through punishing. Only in sPvP is the matchup inequality pronounced because the thief class as a whole in sPvP lacks the damage it needs from repeated skill nerfs and inherently lower power/ferocity values than WvW with more inherent durability across all classes in sPvP. Consequently, the thief cannot use SA to sustain as an equal because SA is not effective for taking points and is thus not used and considered bad practice/bad play.

Eles and Necros die to shadow shot and head shot alone. The blind and repeated in-out capabilities paired with clutch interrupts on their important channel skills will force them to either aggressively kill you with everything they have as quickly as possible, or die. It’s very easy to prevent that with D/P’s stealth access not requiring the thief to get close.

The nerf reduced the potency of blind spam builds mashing 5 from giving invincibility. As much as people try to argue it can be attacked through from melee by 10 units, a non-braindead thief could kite inside of it and not take damage for BP’s duration. I deliberately ran a P/P blindspam sustain cleric’s build as a joke to a sPvP dueling tournament and came in second place by spamming 5 and kiting inside. I got out-played by miles in many of the fights, but still won because the effects were way too strong when used, stacked, and timed properly. Taking into WvW was just as hilarious because it actually dealt damage.

Great if you personally lost playing soldier’s. I continue to troll with it sometimes and win a lot more than I should because of it. I also doubt you’ve seen very many tanky thieves with a reasonable level of skill seeing as soldier’s is recommended for new players as training wheels. The build isn’t fun, but it’s a lot more effective than people give it credit. Meta D/P soldier’s would be a failure, but for obvious reasons in that the set is already a complete one without it.

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.
That was how this started. And I still think that thieves have to sacrifice a lot to be competitive – although if you claim that you can backstab someone in your soldier’s gear for 8k.. (was that guy upleveled?)
I’m a D/D thief actually – but I’ve been playing thief for now 1,5 years, so I use(d) all of the weapons thief has got.

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

That build has a big disadvantage vs every class 1v1 and is awful in team fights too because you have 6 points in shadow arts.

Jana.6831:

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.

And you were proven wrong, yet you still somehow believe that don’t you?

Shiyo.3578:

Narkodx.1472:

D/P meta build with 6 in shadow arts has interrupts condition removal teleports stun breakers etc etc

How long you been playing this game?

That build has a big disadvantage vs every class 1v1 and is awful in team fights too because you have 6 points in shadow arts.

Perfect example of someone who believes that the only way for a thief to fight is to insta down a player.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.

And you were proven wrong, yet you still somehow believe that don’t you?

No, I haven’t been proven wrong, sorry.
But I did prove that you have got no clue about thieves and that was what I wanted.
So, I’m good.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.

And you were proven wrong, yet you still somehow believe that don’t you?

No, I haven’t been proven wrong, sorry.
But I did prove that you have got no clue about thieves and that was what I wanted.
So, I’m good.

Was that in the post where you didn’t realize dagger/pistol had teleports?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.

And you were proven wrong, yet you still somehow believe that don’t you?

No, I haven’t been proven wrong, sorry.
But I did prove that you have got no clue about thieves and that was what I wanted.
So, I’m good.

Was that in the post where you didn’t realize dagger/pistol had teleports?

Some people are good at the game and others aren’t – the latter group relies on the class being “broken” to explain why they get shrekt

I will continue to use my Thief and win most of my 1v1’s while laughing at these threads

Bottom line -don’t argue with the badddies

Narkodx.1472:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

The Point was “All thieves have got tons of evades, teleports, blinding poweder, stealth” to which I answered that if a thief has got this and that he can’t have the other 2, at least not “tons of it”.

And you were proven wrong, yet you still somehow believe that don’t you?

No, I haven’t been proven wrong, sorry.
But I did prove that you have got no clue about thieves and that was what I wanted.
So, I’m good.

Was that in the post where you didn’t realize dagger/pistol had teleports?

Some people are good at the game and others aren’t – the latter group relies on the class being “broken” to explain why they get shrekt

I will continue to use my Thief and win most of my 1v1’s while laughing at these threads

Bottom line -don’t argue with the badddies

It was just so funny watching him dig himself deeper and deeper in that hole with every post.

I like turtles.

>.>
Um those saying shadow shot is a teleport, yeah it is technically. But I fail to see how it, alone, can be used defensively/as a run away tool. Same with steal and infiltrator signet.
They’re gap closers, not straight up unrestricted teleports, such as infiltrator’s arrow and shadowstep. (Like they don’t need a target to teleport).

Arguably, steal and infiltrator signets can be used to escape if it’s X/D you’re using – you CnD off of the target and ditch.

Tooltips also say that only shadow step and infiltrator signet “breaks stun”. Though pretty sure infiltrator’s arrow and shadow shot can be used while being rooted (can’t move, but can do actions/skills) which is slightly different than a full on stun.

Also I might suck at init management but… you need 6 for blind powder and 3 for heartseaker – totaling 9 for stealth-on-demand, to start it up (when you haven’t popped BP yet). Base init being 12, you’re only really allowed to use a skill that costs 3 init, using a skill that costs more than 3 and you have to plan how to stay alive for X amount of seconds (guess you dodge…). Though some of those builds due raise your init to 15, allowing you to get away with using skills that cost a total of 6 before doing the BP+HS combo… in the situation that you have both hide in shadow (30s) and shadow refugue (60s) down, you kind of have to plan when you’re going to do the BP+HS combo… and not just be like “kitten it! going into stealth, BP+HS!”

I guess the easiness comes with practice… but at the same time there are situation where you can’t simply stealth.

Pretty sure resetting a fight would also reset the fight for the opponent… The concept of a thief going into stealth and waiting for 3-4 seconds and all the sudden that’s considered to be a reset is kind of bizarre to me…
Just because I don’t see them for those 3-4 seconds doesn’t mean i should drop my guard and assume the fight is over/reset.. no… pretty sure they’re either planning their next strike or running the hell away – once engaged, until one of “us” is dead or so far in the distance that i can’t see their name tag, we’re still engaged. (But that’s just a personal thing)

I would also hope that the thief is still top-notch in 1v1 since that’s their niche, as useless as it maybe in all most all game types.

maneezy.5241:

I like turtles.

Oh man, I had 3 pet turtles once… I would feed them dandelions and get them to race each other. They’re so chill… I also somehow managed to teach them how to roll off their backs and back on their feet… not sure how, maybe some species of turtles can. :| My turtles were awesome, they could survive being rolled over.

Well a quick youtube search does reveal a video of a turtle rolling over.

lol shadow shot is like the biggest part of dp’s in fight defensive sustain outside of stealth
does surprise me how many thieves in thief forum don’t know how to play a thief.

Simon.3794:

lol shadow shot is like the biggest part of dp’s in fight defensive sustain outside of stealth
does surprise me how many thieves in thief forum don’t know how to play a thief.

Great, can you explain?

Like, I can’t see myself in a situation where I need to get out and I do shadow shot which brings me closer to the target, blinds the target for 1 attack ofc…

So yeah please elaborate how it can be used defensively and how it’s the “biggest part of dp’s in fight defensive sustain outside of stealth”.

Do you shadow shot then evade and then shadow shot again to repeat the cycle? (that’s not really shadow shot alone that’s doing all the magic…) Feel like I’m missing something here…

Honestly I would think that SB’s disabling shot is more defensive than shadow shot.

Zero Day.2594:

Stuff

This debate is literally on whether or not Shadow Shot is a teleport. By the game definition it is (See below).

Shadow Show blinds and teleports you to a target enemy. This enemy can be another player in the opposite direction or one simply on the fringes of a fight. A ranger from 1500 starts using RF, and a hammer warrior is using earthshaker on an ally behind you. You can Shadow Shot the war during earthshaker to blind him to prevent the CC/damage, and escape the range of RF because now the ranger is too far away. Obviously this is even better when the target hitting you is a melee user. It can be used on ambients, other creatures, structures, and so on. It has amazing escape potenial when used properly. Teleports ignore collision. Ground targeted != teleport. The definition of teleport according to the GW2 wiki:

:

Teleport (alternatively, flash) is a mechanic that causes the user or target(s) to instantly move from one location to another.

IA and IStrike can be used while immobilized because immob isn’t a stun. Stun breakers work only on fear, knockback, pull, sink, float, “petrified” via BV (see stun) knockdowns, dazes, and stuns. Immobilizes do not disable skills and thus allow for their use. These skills still prevent the target from moving normally after their use except for IStrike, because it removes conditions.

Most builds either run minimum 3 deep in trickery or deep stealth investment in SA and thus use (or if not should be using) infusion of shadow. You’re looking at 5-6 initiative minimum on these builds before considering the regen of one gained just from the casting time of BP + HS, two for any kind of movement or reposition, before further examining the regen effect bonuses from say, Infil Signet’s passive, steal, etc.

The reset potential is associated with cooldowns and the effects of many thieves using Shadow Rejuv in WvW. Full healing and removing conditions allows a faster/better reset than most classes can boast. Doing this blinds, and the lack of dependency on getting close to the target to stealth is why D/P is the preferred choice for permastealth builds and stealth builds in general as it avoids the potential of CC effects or massive spikes at melee range. It’s simply cutting down on the risk element of D/D. Does trying to CnD off of a medi guard or terrormancer sound like a good idea to you, especially without the teleport from Shadow Shot? I certainly do not think so.

A fight can reset for the thief before its opponent when using conditions, too. Applying long-lasting poison or another condition can lead the thief to resetting OOC by not taking damage while still forcing their opponent to deal with incoming damage or conditions. Personally, if I’m sitting at 70% health, I’ll rarely blow cleanses for a poison ticking for nothing when these skills are usually doubling as both stun breaks and mass cleanses for the real condition builds out there. OOC is determined by proximity and time spent not taking damage. You do not need to be a mile away to OOC.

ISignet is one of the best escapes in WvW, which is what the conversation was about, because IS teleports the user to maximum range even if the target is beyond maximum range. You can click a creature, another player, or even a targetable structure like an enemy gate or wall and use IS from say, 3k range, and it will teleport you 900 towards it.

DeceiverX.8361:

ISignet is one of the best escapes in WvW, which is what the conversation was about, because IS teleports the user to maximum range even if the target is beyond maximum range. You can click a creature, another player, or even a targetable structure like an enemy gate or wall and use IS from say, 3k range, and it will teleport you 900 towards it.

Nope, the discussion was about this:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Thief isn’t bad, people are just upset that you can’t spike someone down the way you used to. It actually takes a little more skill to fight. You have a crap ton of evades, blinds, interrupts, and easy access to stealth. Once you learn how to use those it is almost impossible to die in a 1v1 fight.

Edit: Or whatever conversation you’re talking about – apperantly we now have at least 3 in one topic.

Yeah, besides people trying to determine whether Shadow Shot is a teleport or not, I thought that this was happening in yet another bubbled 1v1 world…

Don’t really have anything against what Deceiver said in his explaination… Not sure if the other’s “debating” were waiting for someone to explain it for them like Deceiver did, or they were just trolling around (called out Simon, no response… though, well, now I know).

Also, nothing against your explanation Deceiver, like I know that using a gap closer (say steal, ISignet, or like you mentioned Shadow Shot) then CnD’ing off the target can be used defensively… But in the weird 1v1 bubble that Jim and Simon seem to be living in and the builds that they referred to on metabattle wiki,, you’re equipped with D/P and SB, so in their case that’s not going to fly. Don’t get me wrong, makes perfect sense, just they failed to explain this themselves (“Oh yeah, with those builds, don’t have a SB as a second set, use X/D for CnD when shadow shotting”).

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

When Anet was nerfing thieves, they were killing their own business, this game has very beautiful graphic designs, but the game mechanic design team, especially the classes balance part team is doing some serious kitteny jobs. I main thieves and like pvp, but I barely log on the game anymore. You like warriors, let the warriors play this game… I made a post and they just deleted it without a reason.

Lumbernuts.9726:

Maybe it’s just my server but I can never find any Theifs in WvW….. Are we really that bad compared to other classes?

Some matchups e.g Baruch bay i literally only fight thiefs. pls.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Well this thread is about thieves in WvW so we have to factor that into arguments. If people wanted to say thief has a hard time with 1v1’s in PvP I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Crit nerfs hit thieves hard in PvP, the lack of gear diversity actually lead to certain classes being too powerful because their sustain is too high. Since the game mode is about point capture thieves can’t utilize stealth the way they can in WvW. But even in PvP they have a role because they are the best PvP roaming class thanks to their high mobility. But since PvP is team combat 1v1 isn’t an issue, thieves should be +1’ing fights instead of trying to solo a bunker and only going 1v1 when they know they have the advantage.

Join Baruch Bay, they have more thieves than you can count.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Well this thread is about thieves in WvW so we have to factor that into arguments. If people wanted to say thief has a hard time with 1v1’s in PvP I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Crit nerfs hit thieves hard in PvP, the lack of gear diversity actually lead to certain classes being too powerful because their sustain is too high. Since the game mode is about point capture thieves can’t utilize stealth the way they can in WvW. But even in PvP they have a role because they are the best PvP roaming class thanks to their high mobility. But since PvP is team combat 1v1 isn’t an issue, thieves should be +1’ing fights instead of trying to solo a bunker and only going 1v1 when they know they have the advantage.

Yeah… So I don’t really understand why people attempt to make bold claims about 1v1’s when that’s almost never the objective of anything (or any modes I should say).

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Well this thread is about thieves in WvW so we have to factor that into arguments. If people wanted to say thief has a hard time with 1v1’s in PvP I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Crit nerfs hit thieves hard in PvP, the lack of gear diversity actually lead to certain classes being too powerful because their sustain is too high. Since the game mode is about point capture thieves can’t utilize stealth the way they can in WvW. But even in PvP they have a role because they are the best PvP roaming class thanks to their high mobility. But since PvP is team combat 1v1 isn’t an issue, thieves should be +1’ing fights instead of trying to solo a bunker and only going 1v1 when they know they have the advantage.

Yeah… So I don’t really understand why people attempt to make bold claims about 1v1’s when that’s almost never the objective of anything (or any modes I should say).

Well I know from experience that solo roamers are pretty rare in the higher tiers but they are still all over the place in bronze. Being able to 1v1 or 1vX is very important when it comes to roaming. Since there’s no downside to stealth in WvW and thanks to guard stacks, food buffs, etc. and the abundance of targets in WvW, thieves make excellent roamers.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Well this thread is about thieves in WvW so we have to factor that into arguments. If people wanted to say thief has a hard time with 1v1’s in PvP I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Crit nerfs hit thieves hard in PvP, the lack of gear diversity actually lead to certain classes being too powerful because their sustain is too high. Since the game mode is about point capture thieves can’t utilize stealth the way they can in WvW. But even in PvP they have a role because they are the best PvP roaming class thanks to their high mobility. But since PvP is team combat 1v1 isn’t an issue, thieves should be +1’ing fights instead of trying to solo a bunker and only going 1v1 when they know they have the advantage.

Yeah… So I don’t really understand why people attempt to make bold claims about 1v1’s when that’s almost never the objective of anything (or any modes I should say).

Well I know from experience that solo roamers are pretty rare in the higher tiers but they are still all over the place in bronze. Being able to 1v1 or 1vX is very important when it comes to roaming. Since there’s no downside to stealth in WvW and thanks to guard stacks, food buffs, etc. and the abundance of targets in WvW, thieves make excellent roamers.

What’s the point of roaming? Or, well, dueling when roaming?

Zero Day.2594:

Simon.3794:

lol shadow shot is like the biggest part of dp’s in fight defensive sustain outside of stealth
does surprise me how many thieves in thief forum don’t know how to play a thief.

Great, can you explain?

Like, I can’t see myself in a situation where I need to get out and I do shadow shot which brings me closer to the target, blinds the target for 1 attack ofc…

So yeah please elaborate how it can be used defensively and how it’s the “biggest part of dp’s in fight defensive sustain outside of stealth”.

Do you shadow shot then evade and then shadow shot again to repeat the cycle? (that’s not really shadow shot alone that’s doing all the magic…) Feel like I’m missing something here…

Honestly I would think that SB’s disabling shot is more defensive than shadow shot.

Not surprising again.
most people in this section of forum just don’t know how to properly play their main.
you have no idea how useful fast blind like this can be.

btw by “in fight” which means in fight, i don’t consider SB 3 spamming = in fights, that’s disengaging.

first of all, when you see a thief with venom, you land a shadow shot, and his zenom will already be useless.
or you just see any thief, you land a shadow shot, they will not try to steal which is the skill that determines the fight most of the time or will the sword 2 hit cause immo which will follow by strong AA damage majority of the time with sword, the only option is to melee or throw dagger, or also use shadowshot or headshot which is pretty much waste of initiative cuz non of these will hit, or SB.

and way against big hit class like warrior, hammer, do i need to say more?
greatsword rush and arcing slice are also predictable single big hit that can be easily countered by shadow shot. killshot, evis?

Oh BTW, you know whats a cleansing ire? it’s the freaking skill that warrior use to clean conditions, you blind that earthshaker, killshot evis, arcing slice. either they have a longbow, or sorry no cleanse for you today.

and shadowshot is also unblockable blind, which means when engi has gear block, you can still blind him cuz him not to able do pry bar which is huge condition and direct damage if cele, and force him to swtich out of gear kit or they can choose to use slow auto attack to clear blind which results in taking heavy dagger AA damage.

should i teach you guys more how to play a thief properly?

Silver tier solo roamer here.
Have never been to gold but to me a server without roamers is lost, so I bet they have them too.
Why am I a roamer? Because of PPT and because I can’t really run in zergs anymore, although I also roamed when zerging was still possible and when I was able to defend (against 1) myself in my zerging roamer gear.
As you can imagine my skill and trait setup is matching my purpose – If I were a duellist I would have other skills than I have now – I would even have different weapons and traits.
There are less ambient or whatever creatures around than you make it appear and porting to an enemy door is deadly in 99% of all cases as there are veteran guards in front of it – and I’m not so sure if it’s even possible, I’ll have a try.
Anyway, there are quite a lot 1vs1 or 1vs2 when capping or defending camps or flipping ogres, frogs and moles.
But most roamers aren’t solo roamers anymore, I rarely see any thief alone. I see rangers solo roaming.
The main reason for thieves to be “good roamers” is SR and SB when encountering an enemy zerg coming in.

Edit: And let me think how many times any D/P thief has used #3 on me lately.. didn’t happen.. guess they save their initative for more important stuff. Or maybe they just need a coach to L2P.

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Zero Day.2594:

I guess, it’s a 1v1 scenario in WvW with kitten around you – possibly even other people, which at that point is it really a 1v1? Well better hope there’s kitten around you anyways to pull some stunts off.

When is there not? It’s nearly impossible to find a location to fight in WvW where there isn’t a npc, ambient, door, player, whatever to target. My friends and I were dueling a group of thieves last night and we had to continuously kill a bunch of raptors for the person dueling to keep the thieves from porting or C&Ding off of them (which is a pretty cheesy move in a duel).

True, most places do have at least ambient creatures. But it’s a bit funny that a build might require certain environment settings to excel. Eh.

Well this thread is about thieves in WvW so we have to factor that into arguments. If people wanted to say thief has a hard time with 1v1’s in PvP I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Crit nerfs hit thieves hard in PvP, the lack of gear diversity actually lead to certain classes being too powerful because their sustain is too high. Since the game mode is about point capture thieves can’t utilize stealth the way they can in WvW. But even in PvP they have a role because they are the best PvP roaming class thanks to their high mobility. But since PvP is team combat 1v1 isn’t an issue, thieves should be +1’ing fights instead of trying to solo a bunker and only going 1v1 when they know they have the advantage.

Yeah… So I don’t really understand why people attempt to make bold claims about 1v1’s when that’s almost never the objective of anything (or any modes I should say).

Well I know from experience that solo roamers are pretty rare in the higher tiers but they are still all over the place in bronze. Being able to 1v1 or 1vX is very important when it comes to roaming. Since there’s no downside to stealth in WvW and thanks to guard stacks, food buffs, etc. and the abundance of targets in WvW, thieves make excellent roamers.

What’s the point of roaming? Or, well, dueling when roaming?

I don’t understand the question? What’s the point of anything in the game? To have fun? It’s fun to kill other players in a PvP environment? Not sure what you are looking for here…

Jana.6831:

Silver tier solo roamer here.
Have never been to gold but to me a server without roamers is lost, so I bet they have them too.
Why am I a roamer? Because of PPT and because I can’t really run in zergs anymore, although I also roamed when zerging was still possible and when I was able to defend (against 1) myself in my zerging roamer gear.
As you can imagine my skill and trait setup is matching my purpose – If I were a duellist I would have other skills than I have now – I would even have different weapons and traits.
There are less ambient or whatever creatures around than you make it appear and porting to an enemy door is deadly in 99% of all cases as there are veteran guards in front of it – and I’m not so sure if it’s even possible, I’ll have a try.
Anyway, there are quite a lot 1vs1 or 1vs2 when capping or defending camps or flipping ogres, frogs and moles.
But most roamers aren’t solo roamers anymore, I rarely see any thief alone. I see rangers solo roaming.
The main reason for thieves to be “good roamers” is SR and SB when encountering an enemy zerg coming in.

Edit: And let me think how many times any D/P thief has used #3 on me lately.. didn’t happen.. guess they save their initative for more important stuff. Or maybe they just need a coach to L2P.

Lol the majority of thieves in WvW are completely noob carried by build and shadow rejuv, have no idea how to play the class properly even i can kill them with no effort on my thief (i only play thief in WvW and i rarely WvW). (ofc there are exception of a few good players).

and i am in no position defending ranger, LB ranger and thief are equally boring to go against. LB ranger takes really no skill to begin with, while thief takes a bit more skill, that’s a fact.

and i wasn’t even arguing in the topic, i was just laughing at some comments, but apparently some one called me out i guess.

Simon.3794:

Lol the majority of thieves in WvW are completely noob carried by build and shadow rejuv, have no idea how to play the class properly even i can kill them with no effort on my thief (i only play thief in WvW and i rarely WvW). (ofc there are exception of a few good players).

Yeah sure, I’m absolutely certain that you’re right and my 20 roaming and duelling thief friends certainly agree with that as well – they have no clue.

Simon.3794:

and i am in no position defending ranger, LB ranger and thief are equally boring to go against. LB ranger takes really no skill to begin with, while thief takes a bit more skill, that’s a fact.

and i wasn’t even arguing in the topic, i was just laughing at some comments, but apparently some one called me out i guess.

I’m not arguing about rangers or anything, all that has to be said has been said – I just disagree with the way you and the other ranger argue and I disagree with your claims what thieves do, can and should do.

Honestly: My best friend in this game mains a thief (he plays all weapon/trait setups there are except P/D). He’s also in a gvg guild where he switches between maining a thief and a guard – he destroys everybody with his guard (1 vs1 or more) and is honestly more than just a little baffled as to how much skill thieves have to bring on the table to succeed against other classes. And I think that’s true – I don’t win against others because my build/class is better but because I outskill them and that by more than a notch – and I think anet should rethink that or better: Realize it.

ETA: I play thief because I love the class, if it weren’t for thief I wouldn’t play this game. If all I wanted was to win, I would chose another class.

Jana.6831:

I just disagree with the way you and the other ranger argue and I disagree with your claims what thieves do, can and should do..

Lol, dude, you didn’t even know DP had teleportation..
if you actually use the time you spent writing all these non sense to learn your own class, you would already be 10 times better.

btw i won’t be responding any more, because i wasn’t even have to argue anything to begin. and btw, try other classes, it will stop your tunnel vision and actually make you know your own class better as well for real.