Guild Wars 2

I have a level 59 thief and I do OK in PvE playing solo but in WvW I can’t last 2 seconds even in 1:1. I certainly don’t feel overpowered. I am trying to figure out if my build is not strategic or if I just am missing the combat fundamentals. Possibly both. Hoping someone here can help.

Mostly using D/D because they do more damage than pistols and I hate trying to maneuver with one hand while aiming a short bow. With mobs I hang back as best I can and use short bows because I am so easily downed. I have the following build so far:

Deadly Arts: 10 (Mug)
Shadow Arts: 10 (Cloaked in Shadow, have also tried Infusion of Shadow)
Trickery: 20 (Thrill of Crime, Uncatchable, more initiative)
I have 9 unspent points because I am not happy with the way I’m performing and plan to reallocate. I use Assassin’s Signet for extra damage and Signet of Shadows for speed. The other slot I have tried various things but for WvW was trying Devourer Venom.

So a battle might go like this: Someone comes running up to me. I hit Assassin’s Signet and Devourer Venom immediately and call Thieves Guild for extra help, because I am usually venturing out alone. I hit Heartseeker twice and then Steal for more initiative and damage, hoping to cause major initial damage and paralyze. The plan from there is wear the enemy down faster than he can wear me down, but it doesn’t matter because I’m already dead and he is dancing over my body. As a side note, I get hit twice and I am down but I can get a few blows in but their health bar barely moves.

Is it because I am not level 80 and don’t have the higher traits and weapons, or do I just suck more than everyone else? Is my trait allocation messed up and I should max crit? Constructive advice appreciated.

go for bunker build with cond damage (bleed), at the moment this is not nerfed
either p/d or d/d

This is a condition build someone created using P/D. Here is the thread link:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Discussion-Condi-Thief-P-D-or-D-D-in-WvWvW/first#post699929

The build itself can be found here:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmKP3ey5E95EB3Djm0m6p4rotTxVlPA;TwAgyCuogx4jwH7MOYkzsWYswOgZAA

Although you are not level 80 and you don’t have the same gear, the premise is the same – use bleeds to outlast your opponent.

Spend your 9 points on something, anything… right now you’re kittening yourself. Also, HS is a finisher not an opener you’re wasting initiative. IMHO, I’d try to open with CnD or maybe LDB, but never ever HS.

The best advice I can give you is to spend your time leveling to 80 and working on acquiring some exotic gear for WvW. WvW is much more fun at higher level with gear to match your build.

That said, if you go with the glass cannon type build, you will be very very easy to take down unless you are very proficient in staying in stealth as much as possible and revealing yourself only to do burst attack. With that type of build you are generally confined to attacking people solo and you can forget taking part in large battles because you are just too fragile. Sure, you can burst down the first enemy, but what about the second, or the third? All that has to happen to take you down is 2 or more people with AoE, which will hit you whether you are stealthed or not. What is the point in having insane burst damage when you die after every kill. Sure, you can roam around killing single enemies, but does that really have any effect on the overall battle?

Switching away from D/D glass cannon type build to a more balanced build with S/D and a focus on power and toughness was the best move I’ve made in this game. Yes, my damage is much lower, but I also don’t get AoE’d to the ground in 2 seconds flat. With my current build I am on the front lines, jumping in and out of battle at will, and just creating chaos and confusion in general. Without giving away my build, I can tell you that its focus is on immobilizing the enemy for as long as possible, and I have 3 venoms to help me in that, plus 2 skills that increase my mobility so I can get out of harm’s way if things get too hot. My stats, in order of priority, go like this: power, toughness, precision, vitality.

Your current build looks a little unfocused, but then again its hard to perform at top proficiency at level 59 with any build. Also, heartseeker is a finishing move, not something you should open up a fight with; it deals significantly more damage when your enemy has lower health.

OrchusGhole.9846:

That said, if you go with the glass cannon type build, you will be very very easy to take down unless you are very proficient in staying in stealth as much as possible and revealing yourself only to do burst attack. With that type of build you are generally confined to attacking people solo and you can forget taking part in large battles because you are just too fragile.

I WvW in full Zerk and maxed-out Critical Strikes, with some points in Shadow Arts and Acrobatics for various useful traits — basically “glass cannon” for people who actually like to dodge. Haven’t had any trouble making myself useful in large battles with shortbow. The key thing is managing range and LOS, and being able to hit hard to punish your opponents for overextending.

“Someone comes running up to me.”

Don’t take this as me trying to sound condescending but that scenario is one you need to avoid as a thief. You should be sneaky even out of stealth because you want to initiate the fight, you never want to have to react to someone opening on you (it happens but you want to mitigate it as much as possible). The main advantage of the thief is the ability to pick your target and initiate combat on your terms.

Aside from that you need to learn the shortbow inside and out, it is an invaluable part of the dagger/dagger build in my humble opinion. It’s also very powerful in large scale combat (keep defense, fighting over a point/bridge, etc.). It provides you with a lot of defense and mobility…learn it, love it, never let it go

At your level you might just want to max the crit line and get Hidden Killer so your backstabs automatically crit. Use steal to close the distance, use cloak and dagger to set up your backstab and you’ll have a lot of fun even at level 59.

One of the main rules of pvp is DO NOT OVERPURSUE. It’s easy to overpursue as a thief, learn to keep your lust for blood in check. If the kill isn’t there switch to shortbow and soften the enemy ranks up a bit. You’ll also get yourself a lot more badges hitting groups of bad guys with AoE (clusterbomb) while you look for an opportunity to blow someone up with a backstab combo. As others have mentioned, Heartseeker is a finisher…read the description.

Of course as you level up the mechanics will become more nuanced but you’ll learn as you go. Also, head to the mists. Practice on the dummies, play some matches, and most of all…experiment, experiment, experiment.

ASP.8093:

OrchusGhole.9846:

That said, if you go with the glass cannon type build, you will be very very easy to take down unless you are very proficient in staying in stealth as much as possible and revealing yourself only to do burst attack. With that type of build you are generally confined to attacking people solo and you can forget taking part in large battles because you are just too fragile.

I WvW in full Zerk and maxed-out Critical Strikes, with some points in Shadow Arts and Acrobatics for various useful traits — basically “glass cannon” for people who actually like to dodge. Haven’t had any trouble making myself useful in large battles with shortbow. The key thing is managing range and LOS, and being able to hit hard to punish your opponents for overextending.

To me that’s a little more of a balanced build than pure glass cannon. Glass cannon in my mind is full deadly arts and full critical strikes with all zerk gear. I’ll agree though that if you primarily use shortbow and keep your distance, a focus on damage could be quite effective. I like shortbow but I prefer melee combat as a thief, and my build is focused on controlling enemies and surviving melee combat in large battles. When I tried this with full glass cannon, I had serious problems with AoE damage due to low vitality and toughness. It always seemed like I was dead as soon as I jumped into the fray. More power to you though if you make it work for you.

@All: Thanks for your responses. Yes, I see that HS is not a good choice as an opener. No excuse.

@Maladon: I agree, so you don’t sound condescending. In this case I thought I was alone and succumbed to the temptation to farm. When he came up to me, I did have time to react and start an attack before he got me in range but it didn’t seem to matter. I just feel like I should be able to handle one-on-one combat better than I do. You are not the only one to sing the praises of the shortbow. I will try working with it more. I feel like I’m whittling away at them with a BB gun while they hit me with a bazooka.

@Stinkypants: I will try C&D more and DB. I don’t like how with DB I go flying around and never know where I’ll end up—deep in the mob, over a cliff, etc. Of course there is a right time and place for every skill.

@Orchus: Yes, thinking I’ll stay out until I at least hit 60 so that I can open that last tier of traits, and then redo them.

Well… I went back in and I have a better explanation. I am only doing 10-20% the damage they are doing:

• You were hit for 2,538 damage by Ring of Earth.
• You were hit for 2,073 damage by Earthquake.
• Defender was hit for 246 damage by your Cluster Bomb.
• Defender was hit for 396 damage by your Cluster Bomb.
  I thought the weapons leveled up with us in WvW but obviously not, unless there is some trick I am missing.

Torfinn.9832:

Well… I went back in and I have a better explanation. I am only doing 10-20% the damage they are doing:

• You were hit for 2,538 damage by Ring of Earth.
• You were hit for 2,073 damage by Earthquake.
• Defender was hit for 246 damage by your Cluster Bomb.
• Defender was hit for 396 damage by your Cluster Bomb.
  I thought the weapons leveled up with us in WvW but obviously not, unless there is some trick I am missing.

I can’t find the post, but basically I thought I read somewhere that you need to make sure your gear is maxed out for your level. If you are using a dagger for a level 35 and you are 59, then it won’t scale properly. Everything scales based on your level.

BTW, I feel your pain. I’m 79 with a bunker build, but my gear is horrible and my I’m only a moderately skilled player… so I die often. On the plus side, I’m hopefully promoting the notion that Thieves are not overpowered and can be easily beaten!

Level up. That’s your biggest problem. Uplevelling doesn’t help much when you are outgeared by 80s and they have all their Traits, while you are missing 21 Trait points.

If you insist on WvW to level, then choose a defensive build and stick with the zerg.

At least get to 60 to unlock the 30-point traits, and get appropriate equipment (level 60 rares).

Yeah I had assumed when we leveled up to 80 so did our gear. It doesn’t really make sense to say I’m uplevelled to 80 but my equipment isn’t, but that’s a conversation for a different forum. I will do more leveling first and then try again. Thanks guys.

It’s not that your equipment isn’t scaled up. It’s that it’s scaled up proportional to your level. So a level 45 character in level 45 rare gear is significantly better off than a level 60 character in level 50 blues.

Don’t open up with heartseeker, heartseeker is more effective the less HP your opponent has.