Yup, I moved on to a mesmer, honestly…i like it better than my thief
The lack of mobility is annoying but it is a very fun class. Also i give you warm welcome to the mesmer ranks…….I just hope we won’t be the next class to be nerfed into the ground in the next balance cycle :P
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
Lordrosicky, a necromancer thinks S/D thief will be amazing after Dec.10
I want to have whatever he’s having lol. He is definately losing that bet.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
Lordrosicky, a necromancer thinks S/D thief will be amazing after Dec.10
I want to have whatever he’s having lol. He is definately losing that bet.
Also, the S/D is fairly good now days, but I wouldn’t say it’s amazing or OP. Sure, I can easily kill some specs like Elementalists, Mesmers and any zerg build that isn’t a Warrior. But against any other build? Pff, it’s pretty kitten annoying having to jumping in and out for 1 minute just to burn and shut those super bunker builds that can hit you back as hard as you hit them (via conditions or power). After Dec. 10, yeah. There won’t be any reason to play S/D anymore
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
A thief in full soldier will still have trouble against other professions… Thief is one of the only hard counters to bunker builds (bunkers and retaliation are the reason we build berserker in the first f´place), and now we’re going to struggle – a lot. The fact that we can’t use Shadow Return while immobilized and that it has a cast time will make it very, very hard for a sword thief to do much. After december 10th people will see a thief use infiltrator’s strike and immediately stun him and burst him to death (which should take about 2-3 seconds).
Our survivability is designed to be evades, teleports and stealth – not toughness and vitality.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
A thief with defense is still going to melt to pretty much anything. If you go all out and get full defense, like so many have already done by running full Dire, you’re still so much lower in terms of survival compared to every single other profession out there. The damage of the Thief isn’t even special and encountering one with the knowledge of how one is played almost guarantees a victory. The Thief damage AND survivability relies on confusion, and you can’t confuse a player that knows you.. the Sword changes just make it so much easier to catch you now.
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
What’s S/D to do against tanky specs now? They used Zerker to deal damage that wouldn’t be shrugged off. Their Larcenous Strike is no longer effective for boon bunkers because the user can’t get past the layer of quickly reapplied fodder boons, and thier ability to escape stunlocks in completely removed. They’ve taken a huge hit in their sustainability via skills, and if they go for sustain via gear, they won’t deal enough damage to be effective as anything more then a minor annoyance to bunkers and Warriors, and if they go balanced they’ll be mediocre at damaging and a step above poor at defense.
So I ask you, what grounds do you have to make your claims. What builds do you have in mind. What insight do you have on how to be in PvP against competent opponents? Are you in denial, taking thief’s viability as granted or do you actually see something none of the other Thief players see? If so, what is it?
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
How does nerfing a skill open up other options? It doesn’t expand the options, it forces you into a different spec an the other is now comparatively better without actually improving anything or making it better.
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
Yeah, it really opens up options when everything sucks. Bring down the remaining 1.5 viable builds to be on par with the less viable ones and BOOM… you have a selection of suck to choose from.
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
Yeah, it really opens up options when everything sucks. Bring down the remaining 1.5 viable builds to be on par with the less viable ones and BOOM… you have a selection of suck to choose from.
you just haven’t discovered them yet. keep working on it though.
They’re working on nerfing the perma stealth. ANet said that they think it’s wrong use of abilities, so they’re going to nerf certain traits and change the initiative regeneration so that it will be impossible to do it using only weapons. They find it ok to perma stealth for longer periods of time if this requires you to sacrifice traits and utility skills to do so. And I agree with them. D/P needed a nerf, and now they get it.
They’re also ruining sword. The only reason for most people to play it was the fact that they could teleport a lot. From 10th of december you’ll see thieves using Infiltrator’s Strike – getting stun-locked and unable to use Shadow Return. In other words, they’ll appear and be insta-killed. W2G ANet.
I disagree that they are ruining sword. They are opening other options now. Thieves who get insta killed are glass cannon specced and may need to put some effort into survivability, just as other classes must do.
Yeah, it really opens up options when everything sucks. Bring down the remaining 1.5 viable builds to be on par with the less viable ones and BOOM… you have a selection of suck to choose from.
you just haven’t discovered them yet. keep working on it though.
Don’t mind Sanduskel. He’s a rabid fanboi (and resident troll – read some of his posts) that believes Anet can do no wrong. Thieves could be in the worst place imaginable, with no chance of beating another profession, and he would be spouting on about how thieves are in a good spot, and that everyone else must be a bad player.
I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.
It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).
I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.
It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).
I think you’re forgetting the vigor nerfs (quite large), the change to inf. strike (huge) and the change to infusion of shadow (good for some bad for some).
I believe ANet balances based on TPvP. I also believe that the percentage of the population focused on TPvP is tiny. As most of us view things from the perspective of WvW, Dungeons or overland PvE, confusion ensues.
So why then does Anet not make a greater separation in our skills between PvE and PvP? If the abuse/problems are stemming from PvP and WvW combat why not address that instead?
I left my Thief months ago. It is still my first love, but it is simply not enjoyable anymore to play when compared to other professions. My main reason for saying that is stability. I’ve played through a lot of nerfs/changes. More will come. This is not the last major nerf for the thief.
So, I can not simply play this profession anymore knowing that it will be changing again sometime down the road making me reevaluate my game play, builds, and gear. Change is good and all – it keeps the game interesting but there is always a sense of loss when Anet makes these “improvements” that makes playing something I’ve invested so much into downright depressing.
We should, in all fairness, give the patch a chance. If it is indeed another depressing improvement to our most beloved profession, then we should stop playing our thieves for about a month. Maybe then Anet will take notice of the lack of thieves and maybe do something to bring some thief-love back to the game. I mean how else are we supposed to get them to listen to us. It’s not like they are reading this forum anymore with all the frustration and anger here. In a game that is supposed to put community first, the thief community always seems to me to be most unhappy – how is that good long-term?
I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.
It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).
I think you’re forgetting the vigor nerfs (quite large), the change to inf. strike (huge) and the change to infusion of shadow (good for some bad for some).
No I did not forget them. I just don’t think they will be quite as impactful as people here on the forums proclaim, especially in light of other class changes.
For example we may see less Warriors use the Hammer now, so the nerf to Infiltrator Strike might not be as significant. That one also happens to be the only change I find hard to justify.
I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.
It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).
I think you’re forgetting the vigor nerfs (quite large), the change to inf. strike (huge) and the change to infusion of shadow (good for some bad for some).
No I did not forget them. I just don’t think they will be quite as impactful as people here on the forums proclaim, especially in light of other class changes.
For example we may see less Warriors use the Hammer now, so the nerf to Infiltrator Strike might not be as significant. That one also happens to be the only change I find hard to justify.
Most people are (seem to be) annoyed (to say the least), that instead of buffing/fixing/changing skills to open up some new play styles (I would love to be able to contribute well in a zerg for WvW as a thief and not die faster than eles, we’re not the most supportive class either), they nerf us down to better it for other class (complaining about, say perma stealth as an obvious example) and hopefully open up(change to) new play styles.
What they’re doing with hammer warriors is nice, just they will still stun you out the kitten then swap weapons and kitten you.
Oh I agree entirely that these changes are completely random and totally miss the opportunity of fixing some of the more fundamental flaws on the class.
If you had asked anyone 3 months ago I don’t think anyone would have considered the ratio of active/passive Initiative regeneration to be a problem. But somehow ANet does.
It’s baffling and arbitrary and makes you wonder what’s next. Because clearly our feedback here is meaningless as they just pursue their own agenda.
I honestly don’t think the upcoming patch is going to be a nerf for Thieves.
It may change things up a little but not to the point of making currently popular builds completely unviable. I know this is against the popular opinion here but I don’t think people have quite grasped what the 1 Initiative/second actually means in real game-play (as opposed to crunching numbers on a spreadsheet).
Agreed. People are making a mountain out of a molehill. Some of us trust anet to competently balance their games, lol.
Because they understand the profession. In fact, I remember someone already doing the math and the DEC 10th changes will actually give thieves less ini/second overall. The only ones who will benefit are sub-par builds.
However, if you have total faith in Anet’s update, then you’ll have no problem fighting my warrior.
With your experience i didn’t think you would go do such brutal obvious trolls, a good troll has to be slightly subtle enough that people will believe you. In my opinion that was realy under your possibilities, you have shown in this forum that you are capable of more.
With your experience i didn’t think you would go do such brutal obvious trolls, a good troll has to be slightly subtle enough that people will believe you. In my opinion that was realy under your possibilities, you have shown in this forum that you are capable of more.
look. no matter what I say, the negative nancies in here crap all over me. I think ANET cares about the whole game, not satisfying such a narrow minded and selfish viewpoint represented by too many players on this particular forum. so….hence the math comment.
If the math is flawed, then by all means redo it and post your calculations. I’d be very interested to see them.
The math may be correct, but it doesn’t relate to game-play.
Most theorycrafting assume some sort of tank and spank scenario because real game-play has too many variables. But guess what, more so than in any other MMO you are constantly moving and dodging in GW2.
Especially in PvP which seems to be the biggest concern for most. And that’s where we will end up with equal or more Initiative to blow. And for every Dodge we lose because of the Vigor nerf we gain an extra Lancerous Strike.
So it’s really not as a cut & dry as people are making it out to be.
As the saying goes, “stand for what is right, fight for what is wrong”
Read that quote again .. You’re going to fight for what is wrong? You’re gonna do all you can to do wrong to people?
Fight “against” what is wrong would be more correct. or “Fight for what is just”
I cant believe that people still ask for thief nerfs…Before u start talking about nerfs go and play with thief then u tell does it need nerf or not…the fact that u lose from a thief in WvW means that you are noob or thief is pro.Thief got lot of nerfs already and D/D build should not be touched anymore(its already too hard to play).All of you that play other classes and complain(Warrior that can stun lock thief and kill him before thief even land a hit,Necro that can kill him with 3 condition spells,guardian that almost cant be killed,mesmer that is way too annoying for thief)…stop complaining on everything about thief,for thief to be good u need lots of time to master it and to play guardian,mesmer,necro,warrior all you need to do is press “1,2,3” and spam everything all over again.U will kill thief and then kill this game along with it.
As a warrior main, I agree that D/D thief no longer need nerf, in fact they could use a bit of buff. The P/D condition thief on the other hand, need serious nerfs: Almost perma stealth, almost perma blind, 3 k armor, ranged, ignore opponent armor, that’s just too much. I test it in PvP and have been murdering people without even trying.
As a warrior main, I agree that D/D thief no longer need nerf, in fact they could use a bit of buff. The P/D condition thief on the other hand, need serious nerfs: Almost perma stealth, almost perma blind, 3 k armor, ranged, ignore opponent armor, that’s just too much. I test it in PvP and have been murdering people without even trying.
If the math is flawed, then by all means redo it and post your calculations. I’d be very interested to see them.
The math may be correct, but it doesn’t relate to game-play.
Most theorycrafting assume some sort of tank and spank scenario because real game-play has too many variables. But guess what, more so than in any other MMO you are constantly moving and dodging in GW2.
Especially in PvP which seems to be the biggest concern for most. And that’s where we will end up with equal or more Initiative to blow. And for every Dodge we lose because of the Vigor nerf we gain an extra Lancerous Strike.
So it’s really not as a cut & dry as people are making it out to be.
So you’re one of those people.
My first request would be for you to identify one of the “too many variables” that you identified, and then justify how theorycrafting cannot practically identify its effects.
seen a few comments about changing up skills between PVE/PVP.. and my answer is…
YOU ARE NOT A THIEF>>>>>>>>>>>>
so obvious. PVE is worse than PVP…almost… try getting into high lvl fractals. everyon keeps kicking you. i have 55 AR almost my 4th legendary and full ascended. im expereienced and lvl 45. no excuse for that. thats not bc we suck its bc the way anet made us. they made us to be assassins and they took that away with the nerfs to mug, HS, BS, CND…… now we are a shadow of a good character. WAKE UP ANET…… this crappy new venom thats “almost there venoms build” cmon nobody is gonna play that pop venoms and sit back and watch for the next 36-45 secs. thats lame and stoopid. same with init. another blatant nerf. like we cant add. same with sword…u dont like thieves just say it/delete them.
As a warrior main, I agree that D/D thief no longer need nerf, in fact they could use a bit of buff. The P/D condition thief on the other hand, need serious nerfs: Almost perma stealth, almost perma blind, 3 k armor, ranged, ignore opponent armor, that’s just too much. I test it in PvP and have been murdering people without even trying.
Pro tip, condi thieves have been around forever.
As for your argument…
>Almost perma stealth
Same amount of stealth as d/d
>Almost perma Blind
A d/d thief can do this too
>ranged
Other classes can use ranged weapons, why is it op when a thief does it?
>Ignores armor
Again, this isn’t just a thief thing, all condi ignores armor.
>3k armor
Thank Anet for the introduction of dire gear, before it every condi thief ran carrion.
So anyway, the reason why the number of condi thieves is on the rise is because post patch, mainhand sword and off hand pistol will be subpar. So we’re left with d/d and p/d.
Also, p/d set got 2 buffs a little while ago, making them a bit more effective.
If the math is flawed, then by all means redo it and post your calculations. I’d be very interested to see them.
The math may be correct, but it doesn’t relate to game-play.
Most theorycrafting assume some sort of tank and spank scenario because real game-play has too many variables. But guess what, more so than in any other MMO you are constantly moving and dodging in GW2.
Especially in PvP which seems to be the biggest concern for most. And that’s where we will end up with equal or more Initiative to blow. And for every Dodge we lose because of the Vigor nerf we gain an extra Lancerous Strike.
So it’s really not as a cut & dry as people are making it out to be.
So you’re one of those people.
My first request would be for you to identify one of the “too many variables” that you identified, and then justify how theorycrafting cannot practically identify its effects.
Quite simple.
Someone calculates that we have less effective Initative now, due to the “Initiative on Crit” nerf. This is assuming we are standing still and constantly attacking a target.
Thus they conclude this is a nerf.
In practice however a S/D Thief for example might only have 50% DPS time on a target, maybe even less. The rest of the time is spent dodging, shadowstepping and stealthing.
Even in PvE I never sit and hit for longer than a few seconds at a time. So the theorycrafting doesn’t really apply. It’s not that it’s wrong, it just makes too broad assumptions.
I’m convinced we will have a much more comfortable Initiative cushion, especially in sPvP, than prior. In PvE it will be slightly less noticeable and probably feel more or less the same.
I don’t think we will actually find ourselves with less Initiative, exception being D/P.
If the math is flawed, then by all means redo it and post your calculations. I’d be very interested to see them.
The math may be correct, but it doesn’t relate to game-play.
Most theorycrafting assume some sort of tank and spank scenario because real game-play has too many variables. But guess what, more so than in any other MMO you are constantly moving and dodging in GW2.
Especially in PvP which seems to be the biggest concern for most. And that’s where we will end up with equal or more Initiative to blow. And for every Dodge we lose because of the Vigor nerf we gain an extra Lancerous Strike.
So it’s really not as a cut & dry as people are making it out to be.
So you’re one of those people.
My first request would be for you to identify one of the “too many variables” that you identified, and then justify how theorycrafting cannot practically identify its effects.
Quite simple.
Someone calculates that we have less effective Initative now, due to the “Initiative on Crit” nerf. This is assuming we are standing still and constantly attacking a target.
Thus they conclude this is a nerf.
In practice however a S/D Thief for example might only have 50% DPS time on a target, maybe even less. The rest of the time is spent dodging, shadowstepping and stealthing.
Even in PvE I never sit and hit for longer than a few seconds at a time. So the theorycrafting doesn’t really apply. It’s not that it’s wrong, it just makes too broad assumptions.
I’m convinced we will have a much more comfortable Initiative cushion, especially in sPvP, than prior. In PvE it will be slightly less noticeable and probably feel more or less the same.
I don’t think we will actually find ourselves with less Initiative, exception being D/P.
I agree. this was an excellent way to nerf that hated perma stealth spec without wrecking all other specs.
ummm you guys are pretty far off. right now we get about 1 init ever 2.5 seconds id say. maybe 1 every 3 secs at worst. but with the new nerf on tuesday we will be getting 1 every 6-7 seconds….. how is that not a nerf? what am i missing?
all crit builds run about 60% crit on average. its 1 per sec…. and thieves attack pretty quick with daggers and trick kitten/cluster bomb hits everything nearbye and bounces etc. so in those builds they are 1 init ever 1.5 seconds. in s/d its prolly 1 in 3 secs or 1 in 2.5 secs.
none of these are even close to the 1 in 6-7 secs we will get on tuesday. HUGE nerf no matter how u look at it.
For justice!
…….I just hope we won’t be the next class to be nerfed into the ground in the next balance cycle :P
