Guild Wars 2

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

Disappointed on Staff AoE
Number of target only 3
even one handed sword can hit 3 target
staff is two handed only hit 3 target and from the developer it said (The staff is more of a cleaving AoE damage type of weapon.) with this statement i think should give daredevil hit 5 target when holding staff

Staff autoattack used up to 2 second to perform however guardian and warrior GS autoattack only 1.5 sec to perform. So, between 0.5 second daredevil loss a bit of DPS and in the tool tip the damage is slightly lower compare to warrior and guardian im not sure how in works tho about the damage need to try in beta

Dust Strike cost 4 initiative only for a simple blind? i think it is too many maybe 3 initiative is reasonable or dust strike should get a smoke field for 2sec or 3sec if it cost for 4 initiative

Animation of daredevil is so simple especially the way of holding the staff compare to others elite specialization such as reaper(holding a big scythe), berserk(Fire brust on most of skills) and dragonhunter (F1 chain the enemy, F2 wing leap)

Did a dev just post in the thief forums o.o

Niels.5396:

Did a dev just post in the thief forums o.o

I was personally impressed myself when I saw a red post!

sam.4681:

Disappointed on Staff AoE
Number of target only 3
even one handed sword can hit 3 target
staff is two handed only hit 3 target =(

Three targets is consistant for any cleaving weapon, even 2Hers.
The only difference is 2Hers usually get at least one ability which can hit at least 5 (as opposed to cleaving 1Hers which tend to be stuck at 3 max targets), and this rule is consistant for Thief’s Staff too.

Warrior GS only hits 3 targets max on all it’s skills. The only reason it can hit more is due to the multiple strikes on 100b and WA; 100b is 9 strikes that can each hit 3 targets, that’s why you can hit more than 3 with it, but each strike still only hits 3.

Guardian GS only hits 3 targets on most of it’s autoattacks. It does have 5 targets hit on #2, #4 and #5 though. #4 and #5 will only do significant damage if they hit with all their pulses though.

Ranger GS only hits 3 targets with all it’s attacks; The exception being it’s heavy-hitter, #2 Maul, which hits 5. This is similar and consistent to Thief Staff, which hits 3 with all it’s attacks, but it’s heavy hitter, Skill #5 Vault, can hit 5. These weapons actually have similar design, with built-in evades and some strong mobility options.

Even the new Necromancer GS only hits 3 targets with it’s autoattacks, like other cleaving 2Hers, only it’s heavy hitters or utility abilities hit 5 targets (Gravedigger being the heavy hitter, NIghtfall and Grasping Darkness being the utility abilites on the weapon, basically following a design similiar to Guardian GS).

If any class has a right to complain about target limit on their cleaving 2Her, it’s Revenant, not Thief. From what I can see, the Revenant Staff’s abilities all have a max target limit of 3, with the exception of Renewing Wave which looks like it’s a combination of a heavy hitter ability and a utility ability. I suppose Surge of the Mists can probably hit 5 targets too though, due it’s multiple hits, in a way similiar to the Warrior GS 100b (3 hit per strikes, with 9 strikes each with it’s individual targets).

Karl McLain.5604:

Lyger.5429:

Volrath.1473:

Volrath.1473:

Lyger.5429:

Hey Karl, kudos to you and the devs working on this spec. However I noticed that during the stream impairing daggers cost initiative, is that intended?

i did not notice that…

Karl?!

just saw the stream again on youtube and it was Fist Flurry that used up 4 init and not the daggers, still it makes no sense that a UTILITY skill uses init…

Actually I think both imparing and fist used it. Most likely a bug though.

Totally a bug.

Dear Karl, should we get back the old system about the franking strike and LS ? just allow us to use LS without hitting someone with the flanking strike ,even it cast 4 ini with flanking strike and 2 ini with the LS. I think this is the only burst in SD . SD really need this for his controllable burst.

sry for my poor english, Im an chinese player but also play GW2 for 2 years ..really love this game

Cynz.9437:

Staff seems like pve weapon to me. Animations are too long and not enough utility for pvp.

Physical are nice but locked to spec and can be countered by dazes/blinds/body blocking etc.

Traits are probably most interesting aspect, seems like it can go well with acro. However i don’t see that trait line going well with d/x builds. Meaning it is s/x or gtfo. Kind of boring.
Also, build has 0 team support which we really needed. SA is still superior in that area.

I can see why people are getting excited, but personally i don’t think there will be anything i will be using from new spec (sb, dp > staff, trait line selfish and only works with s/x, utilities not usable w/o spec), for team pvp that is. Disappointed~

My thoughts exactly. Nothing to add, really.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Mrbig.8019:

S/D-Sbow

DA/CS/acro-Trick-DD with bound, escapist absolution and weakness on crit

Shadow step, shadow refuge and bandits defense or impairing daggers, but ing signet is still better prolly ( i’ll prefer bandit’s defense)

That’s the only build that will ever see the light in PvP.

It may be good tho

Staff is terrible and, as i said before, people will just end spamming vault till no ini, cuz other moves are crap.

I disagree. You can’t defend a node with S/D + SB. Staff will allow you to defend what you captured since you rely less on stealth.

You don’t have access to stealth, but you’re not really compensating for it. S/D doesn’t rely on stealth that much, it has boon rip and good damage. Thief is just not built for holding points in general and Staff doesn’t give enough to change that.

My major concern here is that, sure Staff cannot self-combo (Dust Strike doesn’t cause a Smoke field, unlike Black Powder), but is a 2s Knockdown really so much more devastating than Sneak Attack?

Sneak Attack:

• Damage (5x): 405 damage
• Bleeding (x5)(4s): 440 damage
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
• Range: 900

Using these numbers, we’re comparing Hook Strike’s damage plus 2s of knockdown to Sneak Attack’s 2,465 theoretical damage with its multiple projectiles (“real” damage will be significantly higher). AND the fact that Dagger/Pistol builds can do this again approximately 5 seconds later or so thanks to Black Powder + Heartseeker.

While I understand that Staff isn’t supposed to be “reliant” on stealth and offer us an alternative via evasion and dodges, it seems a bit silly not to let it be able to — even if simply to synergize with Shadow Arts builds for an ultra-evasive build (say, Acrobatics + Shadow Arts + Daredevil).

Request: add a linear Smoke Combo Field to Staff #4 to bring it in line with Black Powder and permit greater synergy with other specializations. Being as it would not be a radial field, this would require clever usage to enter (and maintain) stealth.

Edit: Changed from Pistol/Dagger to Dagger/Pistol, as apparently writing forum posts shortly after waking up leads to doing stuff backwards…

fluffdragon.1523:

My major concern here is that, sure Staff cannot self-combo (Dust Strike doesn’t cause a Smoke field, unlike Black Powder), but is a 2s Knockdown really so much more devastating than Sneak Attack?

Sneak Attack:

• Damage (5x): 405 damage
• Bleeding (x5)(4s): 440 damage
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
• Range: 900

Using these numbers, we’re comparing Hook Strike’s damage plus 2s of knockdown to Sneak Attack’s 2,465 theoretical damage with its multiple projectiles (“real” damage will be significantly higher). AND the fact that Pistol/Dagger builds can do this again approximately 5 seconds later or so thanks to Black Powder + Heartseeker.

While I understand that Staff isn’t supposed to be “reliant” on stealth and offer us an alternative via evasion and dodges, it seems a bit silly not to let it be able to — even if simply to synergize with Shadow Arts builds for an ultra-evasive build (say, Acrobatics + Shadow Arts + Daredevil).

Request: add a linear Smoke Combo Field to Staff #4 to bring it in line with Black Powder and permit greater synergy with other specializations. Being as it would not be a radial field, this would require clever usage to enter (and maintain) stealth.

Pistol/Dagger has neither Heartseeker nor Black Powder. That is D/P.
X/D relies on Cloak and Dagger for stealth.

Sneak Attack does not have 2465 theoretical damage. That is the TOTAL damage. 5 packets of 81 each.

This is the constant misconception. If Hundred Blades worked that way, it would have 12,978 base damage.

Sneak Attack’s damage isn’t so great these days after eating several nerfs around release.

Dear Karl,

We get it. HoT is less than two months away and you’re the one assigned to get Thief in order. No easy task, given that Thief has more accumulated issues than any other profession in the game (other than maybe Ranger; previously Necro).

That said, a lot of us appreciate straightforward communication and HONESTY. If it’s unrealistic that the team will have the time to take a deeper look at core Thief issues between now and HoT, then just SAY IT.

The reasonable amongst us prize communication—even when it’s delivering bad news—over silence. And really, the reasonable are all you should be considering in these situations… you can never please the unreasonable

Hey Karl,

Could you ask the coders if it would be possible to allow Spear and Trident skins to be used on staves? There are so many awesome Trident and Spear skins that no one ever sees that would be awesome in melee. Some of the Trident skins are already staff skins, so it seems like it would be an awesome opportunity to put some more of the designer’s hard work to use.
Thanks!
~Maugetarr

(PS: Some ideas and discussion for improving acrobatics as well as base thief here)

Karl McLain.5604:

Lokheit.7943:

I was distracted, did they mention if Bound breaks stealth on hit when comboing? Or it will work like heartseeker? It looks great and the damage is solid, so I hope I can synergize it with my build.

It works the same as Heartseeker.

Could you please give us Ricochet back?

A straight Stealth is too strong. CnD can get away with it as it’s a melee, but Dust Strike would be a bit too far. Smoke Field is fine since there’s a Leap right on the weapon set and you could also use Bound if you wanted to. If they DID put a Smoke Field on it, I would probably suggest increasing its cost to 5 or even 6 initiative, though.

I’m thinking perhaps a straight line Smoke Field, a bit like Smoke Screen, pointing towards where the opponent is, but only lasting for like 2 seconds.

It’s a 3targets inline blind, spammable, that does damage with 600range. Put a field on it will be too much or the cost should be too high.

I think staff has alot of capability, and potential. The animations are what kill it for me.

Karl if you could look at this video from another game called Skyforge and their Staff wielding “Monk” class, I believe you’ll be able to pull some staff animation with of course an Anet twist so it’s not completely identical and then legal issues may occur.

P.S: Watch in 1080p (You’ll feel like you yourself are playing the game)
P.S.S: Pay attention to the Monk’s Dash as well

I am going to try that game. But I would love to see similar animation for thief.

Shogun.7401:

I am going to try that game. But I would love to see similar animation for thief.

It’s a great game, I would definitely recommend.

But Thief staff animation can definitely be enhanced with some sort of skyforge’s Monk inspiration.

Shogun.7401:

I am going to try that game. But I would love to see similar animation for thief.

It’s grindy as hell, though, that could be a good thing sometimes/for some games. I’m on there and D3 while following HoT…..

After watching that video, it actually inspired me to play that game. I wish I had the same feeling with DD.

No offence Karl!! You guys really need to work on the animation skill.

+1 for Monk staff animation video.

Thank you for posting that video.

Shogun.7401:

After watching that video, it actually inspired me to play that game. I wish I had the same feeling with DD.

No offence Karl!! You guys really need to work on the animation skill.

+1 for Monk staff animation video.

Thank you for posting that video.

The twist is that monks are garbage in that game…

Zero Day.2594:

The twist is that monks are garbage in that game…

Yea they aren’t top tier but are fun to player, however they are also really squishy like slayer. Concerning the DD animations, they aren’t too bad they just need a touch up here & there but I really want to see a different stance when wielding the staff (they could even change it for the revenant but make them unique). I’m also looking forward to some Tempest feedback, DH is on it’s way, but Tempest needs some work.

Zero Day.2594:

Shogun.7401:

After watching that video, it actually inspired me to play that game. I wish I had the same feeling with DD.

No offence Karl!! You guys really need to work on the animation skill.

+1 for Monk staff animation video.

Thank you for posting that video.

The twist is that monks are garbage in that game…

LOOOOOOOOL so true, Monks are so trash in skyforge. But nice to look at if you want to see some nice staff acrobatics. I’m a slayer, because it plays like a Thief in gw2. Can’t get away from gw2 in any other game I play.

Lol!!! Nvm then

Question for Karl or anyone else who might have an answer: Does Pulmonary Impact stack?

supa suop.8026:

Question for Karl or anyone else you might have an answer: Does Pulmonary Impact stack?

I never thought about this. this is a good question – maybe make a new thread about it?

Karl McLain.5604:

Trying to answer questions within this thread (when possible)… Per the question thread – Yes, it does stack. If you have Impacting Disruption equipped and interrupt a foe with Palm Strike, you’ll apply two strikes of Pulmonary Impact to the target.

Oh, you answered it here as well. Still thanks non the less.

Karl McLain.5604:

Trying to answer questions within this thread (when possible)… Per the question thread – Yes, it does stack. If you have Impacting Disruption equipped and interrupt a foe with Palm Strike, you’ll apply two strikes of Pulmonary Impact to the target.

Hey Karl don’t know if you’re still around but any chance of a change from the hammer stance to a unique melee staff stance? Thanks.

Karl did you happen to look at alittle bit of the Sky forge’s Monk staff holding stances, and animations? Did it give you any inspiration?

Fist Flurry/Palm Strike needs a lot more dmg, way to easy to fail just 1 hit and it does autoatttack dmg overall or just a bit more bcoz of the palm strike part

Karl McLain.5604:

Trying to answer questions within this thread (when possible)… Per the question thread – Yes, it does stack. If you have Impacting Disruption equipped and interrupt a foe with Palm Strike, you’ll apply two strikes of Pulmonary Impact to the target.

So, how about answering some questions on the Ele forums?

Karl McLain.5604:

Trying to answer questions within this thread (when possible)… Per the question thread – Yes, it does stack. If you have Impacting Disruption equipped and interrupt a foe with Palm Strike, you’ll apply two strikes of Pulmonary Impact to the target.

As far as the new ultimate goes, can you wait to activate the third portion of the combo? Example can you press the first two parts right away and wait 4 seconds to try and down the target so you can finish the target with the 3rd part of the ult combo?

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

AikijinX.6258:

I think staff has alot of capability, and potential. The animations are what kill it for me.

Karl if you could look at this video from another game called Skyforge and their Staff wielding “Monk” class, I believe you’ll be able to pull some staff animation with of course an Anet twist so it’s not completely identical and then legal issues may occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQJPVGSqIUI

P.S: Watch in 1080p (You’ll feel like you yourself are playing the game)
P.S.S: Pay attention to the Monk’s Dash as well

yeah wow that’s truly amazing. The dashes, the staff manipulation , the extravagant moves. Love it.

I just watched the Slayer… looks amazing too, but the game has some serious clunkyness and zero fluidity. It bothers me a lot.

YES, change staff animation. don’t make it look like we are holding a hammer.

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

Since Acro is dump and DA is trash for condi you can sacrifice either for DD despite their unjustified nerfs on SA. For power you can pass on CS and Acro is a dump so sacrifice either for it. Hell I wouldn’t even call it a sacrifice if you’re trading something that’s even close to being equal.

DD doesn’t interest me that’s my opinion but it would be stupid to not obviously take it.

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

Since Acro is dump and DA is trash for condi you can sacrifice either for DD despite their unjustified nerfs on SA. For power you can pass on CS and Acro is a dump so sacrifice either for it. Hell I wouldn’t even call it a sacrifice if you’re trading something that’s even close to being equal.

DD doesn’t interest me that’s my opinion but it would be stupid to not obviously take it.

cant dump DA on power.And acro is fine now and hard to catch + dont stop really good traits to pass on..

Good day Mr. McLain,

I would like to know if HoT will offer a Viable / Competitive PvE ‘condition damage setup’ for us.

Thank you.

There arguably already are a few viable condition damage setups in PvE. Condition builds are better in the Maguuma Wastes areas than they were in a lot of previous ones, and said areas are a blueprint for what a lot of the HoT content will be like.

Now, the real question is if HoT will offer a viable condition damage setup in SPvP, but that’s a problem bigger than just Thief unfortunately.

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

Since Acro is dump and DA is trash for condi you can sacrifice either for DD despite their unjustified nerfs on SA. For power you can pass on CS and Acro is a dump so sacrifice either for it. Hell I wouldn’t even call it a sacrifice if you’re trading something that’s even close to being equal.

DD doesn’t interest me that’s my opinion but it would be stupid to not obviously take it.

cant dump DA on power.And acro is fine now and hard to catch + dont stop really good traits to pass on..

I said you can dump CS on power and DA on condi also I’m now sure how Acro is fine “now”.

Personally, I am pretty darn stoked to get my hands on the Daredevil this weekend. I thoroughly enjoyed everything they revealed during the POI and I think this spec is going to be a solid contender in many ways.

My only questions/concerns/feedback so far are in 3 areas (@Karl):

1. Channeled Vigor (the heal)
a. Can you move while channeling it? If it locks you in place, I would never use it as that defies the whole “mobile, highly evasive” nature of this class and elite spec.

b. Please reconsider the design on the larger heal amount. The bigger heal should be available when endurance is NOT full — at moments of low health and low or recently spent endurance — which is when you would most need all the features of this skill. Otherwise, this heal would promote holding onto your energy, which is the complete opposite of the point of this spec. And another reason I would never use this heal. How it feels and plays out this weekend will provide more input.

2. Vault (staff 5) and Bound (grandmaster trait)
Since Anet has stated that the staff is more of a cleaving AoE damage type of weapon, I believe that these skills should be BLAST finishers and not leaps. This brings them into perfect alignment with the AoE nature of the spec and brings more group utility and support to the table. This way thieves would have a stronger appeal and value in group comps (like large WvW groups or small coordinate havoc groups, or dungeons or raids, etc) and would be able to bring something other than shortbow to the table.

Once I get my hands on the spec this weekend, I’ll have more input. But these are my thoughts ahead of time. Thanks!

If anything, Channeled Vigor should heal for more when Endurance is not full, and for less when it is (as you have unused evasive resources remaining a form of “effective health”).

sirjarros.4107:

Personally, I am pretty darn stoked to get my hands on the Daredevil this weekend. I thoroughly enjoyed everything they revealed during the POI and I think this spec is going to be a solid contender in many ways.

My only questions/concerns/feedback so far are in 3 areas (@Karl):

1. Channeled Vigor (the heal)
a. Can you move while channeling it? If it locks you in place, I would never use it as that defies the whole “mobile, highly evasive” nature of this class and elite spec.

b. Please reconsider the design on the larger heal amount. The bigger heal should be available when endurance is NOT full — at moments of low health and low or recently spent endurance — which is when you would most need all the features of this skill. Otherwise, this heal would promote holding onto your energy, which is the complete opposite of the point of this spec. And another reason I would never use this heal. How it feels and plays out this weekend will provide more input.

2. Vault (staff 5) and Bound (grandmaster trait)
Since Anet has stated that the staff is more of a cleaving AoE damage type of weapon, I believe that these skills should be BLAST finishers and not leaps. This brings them into perfect alignment with the AoE nature of the spec and brings more group utility and support to the table. This way thieves would have a stronger appeal and value in group comps (like large WvW groups or small coordinate havoc groups, or dungeons or raids, etc) and would be able to bring something other than shortbow to the table.

Once I get my hands on the spec this weekend, I’ll have more input. But these are my thoughts ahead of time. Thanks!

Yes you can move while channeling the heal, Karl did this during the stream. Secondly the bound skill should stay leap but staff could be blast. Would be neat if you could do both like leap at the start and blast when you land.

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

Since Acro is dump and DA is trash for condi you can sacrifice either for DD despite their unjustified nerfs on SA. For power you can pass on CS and Acro is a dump so sacrifice either for it. Hell I wouldn’t even call it a sacrifice if you’re trading something that’s even close to being equal.

DD doesn’t interest me that’s my opinion but it would be stupid to not obviously take it.

cant dump DA on power.And acro is fine now and hard to catch + dont stop really good traits to pass on..

I said you can dump CS on power and DA on condi also I’m now sure how Acro is fine “now”.

with the felince grace change

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Sandrox.9524:

Sagat.3285:

Killyox.3950:

Lol. People surprised to see Dev post in thief forum after Thief POI.

I rather call it the Daredevil POI I don’t remember hearing anything for thief from there and yes it’s not surprising.

What trait line you gonna sacrifice for this one trait?

Since Acro is dump and DA is trash for condi you can sacrifice either for DD despite their unjustified nerfs on SA. For power you can pass on CS and Acro is a dump so sacrifice either for it. Hell I wouldn’t even call it a sacrifice if you’re trading something that’s even close to being equal.

DD doesn’t interest me that’s my opinion but it would be stupid to not obviously take it.

cant dump DA on power.And acro is fine now and hard to catch + dont stop really good traits to pass on..

I said you can dump CS on power and DA on condi also I’m now sure how Acro is fine “now”.

with the felince grace change

From 2 sec of vigor to 4 sec?? Bad joke attempt and Acro is not only Feline Grace.