Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

Thief

• Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
• Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance
• Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
• Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
• Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
• Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
• Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
• Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
• Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30.
• Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
• Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%.
• Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.*

A bit of a disappointing patch to be honest, but I like that they only made a small tweak to Pistols because it shows that they’re going to address them but be cautious by only making small tweaks along the way.

The increase of Fleet Shadow from 33% to 50% is quite an interesting choice though, it’s like they’re trying to say “Yeah Thieves can get away easily in Stealth, that’s the point! In fact, you don’t like it? Good, we’ll make them even better at it!”

What are your thoughts?

however we were told by devs that p/p was gettting love..

clearly that is not true.

Seriously: PLEASE FIX VITAL SHOT, WHICH IS VERY OBVIOUSLY WEAKER/SLOWER THAN IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE. I’m very disappointed this wasn’t done in this patch.

At least Richochet is significantly less terrible, even if it’s still kinda mediocre.

ermergerd.. new fleet shadow looks bawler.. going to have to seriously consider not using the 50% fall dmg one which I love…

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

I only see buffs for thieves and warriors. Should’ve rolled one to 80.

Disappointed with no vital shot fix. Ricochet should’ve been at least 50% but we’ll see how well 20% performs. 5% on pistol mastery probably won’t make much difference.

Ink shot speed change. Thank you perhaps I can finally use it to kittening escape lol. You could practically outswim the bullet.

Fleet Shadow…I wanted it removed, but this change is actually really interesting. I like what they did with it.
Pistol Mastery… eh these damage traits are still boring as all hell as I see it, but eh it might be just the push it needs, doubt it though. On the other hand full GC pistol damage will get more absurd.

Ricochet is still a bad choice as I see it, might as well delete if you’re not going to commit. They’re afraid of it apparently, why have it if it scares you?
Also like Escape, spreading the weakness underwater.

I like how they went to make improvisation less kitten If it applies to Ele conjure weapons it might be more interesting than It looks.

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

I’m disappointed P/P buffs were limited only to traits. Does nothing to help condition build. :< Doesn’t feel like it effects much overall, actually.

P/P was simply not adequately addressed. And the rest of these … meh.

Whatever you do, don’t read about what happened with other classes …

Richochet = new mystic dagger? hmmmm

rootnode.9546:

I only see buffs for thieves and warriors. Should’ve rolled one to 80.

haha, I’m sure you were thinking up that response all day.

Seriously though, it seems like every class got buffed. That is a good thing. I am tired of seeing nerfs all the time. Buffing classes is a much better way to go.

Incurafy.6329:

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

k thats fine…..if they didnt also have the ability to dish out more damage then most of the other classes in the game.

In WvW stealth is already MASSIVELY abused. 9/10 encounters with enemies are thieves. Half the time when your fighting them you cant even see them due to culling issues.

Now you make them move 20% faster allowing them to get behind the target faster pulling off backstabs more easily and if things start looking ugly just turn and run and no one could possibly catch you.

This was really just unnecessary. Thieves were already highly mobile and a skilled thief could get out of any situation.

Jahva.1895:

P/P was simply not adequately addressed.

Pretty much this. Addressing P/P’s issues means making actual changes to Pistol mainhand skills (#1/#2/#3). The ricochet buff brings it from being a near-useless trait to something that’ll allow pistols to have some AE capability, but neither trait change really does anything for the core issues of P/P.

As for the other changes, water combat is getting a pretty big revamp for most professions, and I appreciate getting a combo option for thieves, even if poison fields are usually “meh”. Dunno who thought 50 % runspeed boost in stealth was warranted as a trait. If they wanted to fix the existing trait they should’ve just made it give 5s swiftness on stealth, I guess it’ll be interesting to see what access to 50 % runspeed will do for thieves.

The Richochet buff is kitten . Period. (This means I absolutely do not agree with the buff, btw.).

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

k thats fine…..if they didnt also have the ability to dish out more damage then most of the other classes in the game.

In WvW stealth is already MASSIVELY abused. 9/10 encounters with enemies are thieves. Half the time when your fighting them you cant even see them due to culling issues.

Now you make them move 20% faster allowing them to get behind the target faster pulling off backstabs more easily and if things start looking ugly just turn and run and no one could possibly catch you.

This was really just unnecessary. Thieves were already highly mobile and a skilled thief could get out of any situation.

A skilled anything can get out of any situation, I make Thieves cry in sPvP with my war. Once they pop out of stealth, perma-stun and they’re dead.

I run zerker P/D with pistol mastery traited, so I’m happy

Incurafy.6329:

The increase of Fleet Shadow from 33% to 50% is quite an interesting choice though, it’s like they’re trying to say “Yeah Thieves can get away easily in Stealth, that’s the point! In fact, you don’t like it? Good, we’ll make them even better at it!”

What are your thoughts?

This actually grants some legitimacy to “stealth is what allows thieves to escape” whining, unfortunately. Previously it was mostly pure mobility that allowed thieves to escape, with the stealth masking the mobility taking most of the blame for thieves being hard to catch. People were beginning to understand, however, that if you had superior mobility then thieves were catchable, it wasn’t really the stealth at all. With this change, stealth and mobility will be directly linked so folks saying “they get away because STEALTHAX!” will be technically correct.

Incremental changes… I was hoping for more, but honestly I don’t think this is too bad.

And no nerfs, so come on… be reasonable

Anet is making small changes. Small changes are always better than radical ones. Radical ones tend to throw off one part of the community. Adjusting a small tad at a time is an extremely intelligent thing to do. This isn’t the end of it, pistol changes will happen, just not on a radical scale. Small changes gives people time to adjust.

Props to anet

I was kind of hoping we might get some shortbow improvements. It’s rough not having any weapon with a consistent 1200 m range.

Kaizer.7135:

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

k thats fine…..if they didnt also have the ability to dish out more damage then most of the other classes in the game.

In WvW stealth is already MASSIVELY abused. 9/10 encounters with enemies are thieves. Half the time when your fighting them you cant even see them due to culling issues.

Now you make them move 20% faster allowing them to get behind the target faster pulling off backstabs more easily and if things start looking ugly just turn and run and no one could possibly catch you.

This was really just unnecessary. Thieves were already highly mobile and a skilled thief could get out of any situation.

A skilled anything can get out of any situation, I make Thieves cry in sPvP with my war. Once they pop out of stealth, perma-stun and they’re dead.

Thieves are fine in sPvP. The issue is in WvW.

To quote a post I read the other day its like trying to fight an invisible boxer. He chooses when and where to hit you.

If you try to fight back he just disappears. 9 times outta 10 im already half dead before he even loads on my screen. I goto target him. He disappears again and backstabs me down.

Whyyyy would they buff this?

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

Foss.4830:

Incurafy.6329:

• Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.

…What?! Thieves can already get away soooo easily in WvW why on earth would they EVER consider making this EASIER for them?! Along with the culling problems…..I just dont understand why they would buff stealth in ANY way right now.

rootnode.9546:

Because as a thief, you’re sooo slow. Bow, 5, done.

Maybe this is Anet saying that the Thief is SUPPOSED to be able to be fast, agile, and mobile? You know, like it says in the class description? Get used to it.

;)

k thats fine…..if they didnt also have the ability to dish out more damage then most of the other classes in the game.

In WvW stealth is already MASSIVELY abused. 9/10 encounters with enemies are thieves. Half the time when your fighting them you cant even see them due to culling issues.

Now you make them move 20% faster allowing them to get behind the target faster pulling off backstabs more easily and if things start looking ugly just turn and run and no one could possibly catch you.

This was really just unnecessary. Thieves were already highly mobile and a skilled thief could get out of any situation.

Everyone should know by now that Anet does NOT balance WvW which is exactly why PvE changes affect it and PvP changes only effect s/tPvP. Yes, culling needs to be fixed but it’s not some easy thing that they can hotfix (as they’ve stated here) and it’s certainly not something that only affects Thieves (Mesmers/anyone in a zerg) or makes us OP in any way.

Thieves are supposed to be agile/mobile to make up for their squishiness. Stealth is the defence mechanic that aids with that mobility.

Also, other classes are just as capable of bursting as Thieves are, so please, that argument has been done to death.

Tulisin.6945:

Incurafy.6329:

The increase of Fleet Shadow from 33% to 50% is quite an interesting choice though, it’s like they’re trying to say “Yeah Thieves can get away easily in Stealth, that’s the point! In fact, you don’t like it? Good, we’ll make them even better at it!”

What are your thoughts?

This actually grants some legitimacy to “stealth is what allows thieves to escape” whining, unfortunately. Previously it was mostly pure mobility that allowed thieves to escape, with the stealth masking the mobility taking most of the blame for thieves being hard to catch. People were beginning to understand, however, that if you had superior mobility then thieves were catchable, it wasn’t really the stealth at all. With this change, stealth and mobility will be directly linked so folks saying “they get away because STEALTHAX!” will be technically correct.

That’s a very good point, but you can pretty easily counter all of those posts now by citing this patch which increased the speed and made Thieves even better at escaping while stealthed. If people want to QQ about it then whatever, because it’s clear that Anet is on our side here.

They can increase reveal to 4 seconds in WvW only and the issue will diminish.
Outside of that it should reinforce the thief as a hit and runner. Hit, get the hell out and come back.

I’m guessing they are not done with the adjustments, so they are adding the mobility to make up for the adjustments to stealth that will be coming down the pipeline.

I like how everyone is commenting on this without actually having experienced it in-game. Being in combat reduces your overall movement speed by a set percentage, so it’s not like Thieves will suddenly be Ride The Lightning-zapping away from everything; it’s also still affected by Cripple and other slow effects.

If a Thief is already in a position to have enough stealth stacked to remove himself from a combat situation entirely, he would have been able to do so pre-patch as well.

ensoriki.5789:

Outside of that it should reinforce the thief as a hit and runner. Hit, get the hell out and come back.

I think people are underestimating what a 50 % speed boost will mean for practical combat stealth applications, instead of just running away. Makes it a heck of a lot easier for P/D to control range without using Dancing Dagger cripples, for one. It’ll also change the max range at which a thief can charge in for a backstab/tactical strike when opening with a stealth utility/heal.

I get the in-battle significance, but against say, the new ranger speeds, you won’t see much of a difference in battle outside of people in base speeds or with swiftness. The improved movement signets for instance, will keep things the same while you are in stealth(assuming they take it) as before, but outside of stealth landing attacks like CnD will actually be harder vs them. Of course for those at a base speed, it’s going to be great for our positioning.

How come Ink shot isn’t mentioned? For WvW, Capricorn hotjoin, and PvE, underwater escaping just got a lot easier.

lol, as I expected. Every other profession got buffed, except thieves.

shrewd.5319:

lol, as I expected. Every other profession got buffed, except thieves.

What are you talking about? Very minor, unnoticeable nerfs if any and a huge buff to your speed.

I think it would be a huge improvment if instead of Ricochet adding a chance to bounce to another target it gave a chance to shoot twice. 25% chance to fire a second bullet at the same target for 50% dmg would be awsome. Why add a weak multi target attack to a single target weapon?

Fleet shadow I will be trying out for sure. 50% seems too good to be true. I often like to use 30 shadow arts and this will fit in well with those stealthy kinds of builds.

Aaaand thieves are still boring pieces of crap.

No noticeable changes, no venom or trap fixes, trait-only buffs…. just wow.

Not gonna say I expected anything more than this though lol.

For the people going amg stealth buff uber l33t h4x0rz you are slowed down so much in combat it’s silly and 50% in stealth is not game changing, trust me. It will make back stabbing moving targets slightly easier and that’s about it.

I think they’re taking baby steps with this because they don’t want pistols turning into the new daggers.

Pistols are a Damage-over-Time weapon after all. Not a burst weapon.
The designer who posted only said they felt the damage was “a little” low. If you expected more, that’s your own fault.

I do like that change to Fleet of Shadows. It’s an interesting choice now.
Most of the adept-Acrobatic traits seem lackluster to me.

Relentliss.2170:

shrewd.5319:

lol, as I expected. Every other profession got buffed, except thieves.

What are you talking about? Very minor, unnoticeable nerfs if any and a huge buff to your speed.

Huge buff to speed… IF YOU TAKE THE TRAIT. The trait is outside of the common BS builds, but it IS within the parameters of a P/D stealth bleed build.

Wish people would stop wording it as if ALL thieves will have the 50% stealth speed increase because that isn’t the case.

So let’s see what priorities for changes that still need to happen are.

Here’s my list:

MH Pistol skill improvements (VS in particular)
Venom overhaul, the current implementation is very weaksauce and uninteresting
Downed State in PvE is really bad. More damage + more reliable escape needed
Stealth rendering still breaking PvP
Stealth still very buggy in PvE, doesn’t properly dump aggro or stop incoming damage.

People seemed to miss this part of the notes.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

shrewd.5319:

lol, as I expected. Every other profession got buffed, except thieves.

lol, that’s so ironic it’s not even funny.

Samhayn.2385:

People seemed to miss this part of the notes.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

No one missed it, they are that already.
Problem is that they got 50% increased movement in stealth. They didn’t needed it and WvWvW will hurt badly for it. Even more thieves and less of the other ‘weak’ professions, it’s not what the players want.

Aupheus.9038:

No one missed it, they are that already.
Problem is that they got 50% increased movement in stealth. They didn’t needed it and WvWvW will hurt badly for it. Even more thieves and less of the other ‘weak’ professions, it’s not what the players want.

The 50% buff doesn’t work anyway.

Aupheus.9038:

Samhayn.2385:

People seemed to miss this part of the notes.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

No one missed it, they are that already.
Problem is that they got 50% increased movement in stealth. They didn’t needed it and WvWvW will hurt badly for it. Even more thieves and less of the other ‘weak’ professions, it’s not what the players want.

Not that I’m going to use that trait at all but doesn’t it make it so people would take points away from burst to get a trait in a surviabilty tree? So well they would be moving faster they would do less damage and they would only move faster in stealth.

Sword Tactical Strike – where is my 51/2 seconds of blindness/daze is it still bugged?

Aupheus.9038:

No one missed it, they are that already.
Problem is that they got 50% increased movement in stealth. They didn’t needed it and WvWvW will hurt badly for it. Even more thieves and less of the other ‘weak’ professions, it’s not what the players want.

No self-respecting WvW Thief takes ‘Fleet of Shadows’, and while the buff was neat, it’s still not going to be used by anyone who a lick of skill.

That slot is reserved for ‘Descent of Shadows’.
Fall-Damage reduction is vital for your WvW success, especially for thieves since the trait grants stealth upon falling!

S/D and non glass D/D still nerfed to oblivion and with broken flanking strike. Who the kitten cares about water when the land based weapon skills are broken.

I’d still be a glass gs warrior without doubt. Untill that stops to be the case, I’m staying logged off.

-D/P’s Dual skill still roots on hit. 4 months in, it still roots on hit. kittening hilarious

-P/P got token buffs that in no way addressed any of its issues. It’s still a kittentily designed set. No access to Stealth (a thiefs primary defense, and a strong offensive tool). Body shot is still mathematically provable as a waste of initiative. Its garbage and something needs to happen to it. With Body shot being worse than worthless, the entire set is confused – the OH skills are utilities, so that leaves you with a condition based auto and stealth attack, and a power/crit based dual skill. The auto-attack is severely underpowered without access to stealth for Sneak attack. Changing Body shot to something worth spending initiative on would help nudge the set toward some sort of coherency (either a BIG damage buff, or condition apply on hit).

-Pistol whip still does less damage than our auto attack, all for only 5 initiative. Targets can just walk out of it. It has its uses in coordinated team play, but it’s more often than not a waste of initiative.

-The improvisation change is just hilarious. The skill is still completely random, and cannot be relied upon. Coordinated team play needs skills that can be relied upon, not luck-of-the-draw traits.

-Steal randomly obstructed by thin air (I’m not 100% sure whats causing it, could be a block being incorrectly reported, or trying a steal at max range on a target moving away from you. Either way, it wastes a 45s CD)

-Flanking strike still doesn’t work as well as Rangers equivalent in accuracy or evade duration (though I will admit, it “feels” more accurate in the dozen games I played tonight using S/D). The evade fades well before the second swing, its just silly. Now the evade time itself is fine, the second strike needs to be delivered more quickly and reliably.

Non Thief specific gripes
-Ranged attacks are still randomly obstructed by thin air, rather often. 4 months in and you don’t have something as basic as ranged combat working correctly?

On the plus side, they fixed underwater combat! I’m sure we’re all pumped for the numerous underwater combat issues that were fixed – underwater combat is the heart of competitive play, these changes will make it so much easier every time Capricorn comes up on the tourney rotation.

I can’t do this much kittening without at least acknowledging the positive changes. Improved slow pulse is nice, and new fleet of foot is nice. It’ll unfortunately be used for “run away until my CD’s are back up” thieves, but it’s intended to give thieves who use stealth offensively to be able to maneuver behind their targets more reliably; with the new speed signets for other classes, it was a good call. New Ricochet has potential, but its hard to gauge with P/P being sub-par, and P/D only having 1 skill that will take advantage of it (remember, body shot doesn’t count as a skill.)

I am super disappointed after reading this few days ago and had my hopes up about P/P getting some love.

JonPeters.5630:

We are looking into this. I actually think P/P has a lot of utility. Blind field, daze, vuln stacking. However damage is a bit low. We are making some headway here in the12/14 build so be patient for one more week.

Jon

All i see in this patch was the 5%dmg increase in the trait and i think that the 20% in Ricochet is too low of probability to be useful.

I would like to see some improvement to the first skill Vital shot and perhaps a complete remake of Bodyshot to a cripple/evasive/stealth skill.

My feeling is the 50% stealth speed buff will mostly benefit the already popular BS burst and P/D builds, which didnt need it. S/D still hard to play with no fix to pathing of flanking strike. Shortbow main worse given other classes got buffs. PP must be a bit better, but likely very little better and still inferior to SB. Who knows however i will give the new traits a try, at least, see how they roll. Overall…. disappointed on first blush. Lucky Hawken is out.

• Thief

• Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Trait IV – Shadow’s Embrace: Remove one condition every 3 seconds while in stealth – Trollolool

Extremely disappointing patch in terms of xPvP and WvW imo. Whatever, let ANet dig their own grave.