Guild Wars 2

With the way the classes are now and the way thief does feel a overshadowed and weaker then other classes at the moment. I always felt i didnt have to rely on getting buffed or debuffed when it comes to thief playstyle i felt like player skill in general had a big impact on thief. I remember when I would go into pvp or wvw and just simply out play people I would fight. But now I feel even with better movement and gameplay overall I still find myself losing a lot of fights. Even fights where I truly se myself as the better player, in the end it’s a losing fight. Is this something others feel? It’s been awhile since I’ve been around. Is the thief dead? If so do you guys feel it will make a comeback?

Yes, we all feel dead – anet decided that every other class should be made faceroll easy.
We have no idea if it makes a comback; June killed builds/sets all but D/P, HoT gave the rest to D/P. You can still win sometimes if your enemy is really bad or does some really stupid mistakes while facerolling. Otherwise thief has got the role to +1 fights.
So, as you can see, it’s been a while and we don’t know whether or not we will make a comeback. The next balance patch (and if it really is a balance patch it’s the first since last June) is coming up next month.

Jana.6831:

Yes, we all feel dead – anet decided that every other class should be made faceroll easy.
We have no idea if it makes a comback; June killed builds/sets all but D/P, HoT gave the rest to D/P. You can still win sometimes if your enemy is really bad or does some really stupid mistakes while facerolling. Otherwise thief has got the role to +1 fights.
So, as you can see, it’s been a while and we don’t know whether or not we will make a comeback. The next balance patch (and if it really is a balance patch it’s the first since last June) is coming up next month.

Up until I came back this month I have not giving any time in any other class. I have only made thief in every race. (Don’t ask) but I recent made a guardian. But that aside in your opinion should I give other classes a chance. Or should I just stay hardcore to my thief and ride out this slump. The only other playstyle I enjoy other then the assassin style is support role which gw2 don’t really have. So I’m at a loss at what to do at this point. I don’t want to lose interest in the game. Is thief a viable member of PVE even though the struggle is real in PVP? I was in 80 zones on thief today and felt like mobs were downing me left and right.

Rebel.5387:

Up until I came back this month I have not giving any time in any other class. I have only made thief in every race. (Don’t ask) but I recent made a guardian. But that aside in your opinion should I give other classes a chance. Or should I just stay hardcore to my thief and ride out this slump. The only other playstyle I enjoy other then the assassin style is support role which gw2 don’t really have. So I’m at a loss at what to do at this point. I don’t want to lose interest in the game. Is thief a viable member of PVE even though the struggle is real in PVP? I was in 80 zones on thief today and felt like mobs were downing me left and right.

We have supporters now, mostly druids, I think, not sure if eles are that good at that.
If you own HoT, try Revenant – it might well be (although one never knows) that they will be nerfed quite a bit in near future but they’re the closest to assassin and support you can get. I think it’s my second favourite class but I didn’t want to ditch my thief in favour of my rev, so I’m still playing thief.
No, thief isn’t viable in any game modes, right now, but in most cases you can make up the difference with a lot of skill = if you’re a really good player you can still be useful with a thief in all 3 game modes, but you would do better on any other class (besides probably warrior who’ve got a similar fate like thieves right now).

The why: The traitmerge (June, you see it when looking at your build – now 3 traitlines and only 3 choices for each slot) made a lot of classes OP and they released HoT (Elites) on top of that – my engi has got at least 2 traits that let her regenerate health, f.e. Also June and HoT brought a lot more pasives and the weapons are mostly too well designed = leave no opening. Thief hadn’t had any of that to start with, that might be why we suffer the most.

In the end, play whatever you like – so yes, give other classes a shot – BUT you’d probably like the elites better and if your chars aren’t already at 80 you have a long way to go (try rev if you have HoT).
ETA: Of course, you can try the elites in pvp – I forgot.

u are totally right, thief is very weak class. U cant win even u are better playerwith better reflex. All beocus4e of mathematics. Thief vcan not win beocuse thief has very poor value in traits. u cant beat if enemy has 10 and u have only 5.

dunno what ppl are talking about, i feel pretty comfy with venom share, tricks and dire set build against anyone in wvw.

Romu.1352:

dunno what ppl are talking about, i feel pretty comfy with venom share, tricks and dire set build against anyone in wvw.

Funny thing: each time someone says “thief is fine” and I ask them, when they last played, how their playstyle is, if they’re running with zergs etc.. it emerges that they last played thief 2 years ago, are running with zergs in eotm etc. so I’m taking your “thief is fine” with a grain of salt =)

I think the real problem is everything is so easy to play compared to thief nowadays. The skill floor so low on other classes that there’s almost no reason to play thief if your beginner/intermediate, spend 1 week on rev and you’ll almost certainly do more. Now instead of making thief easier or more faceroll I’d rather see a toning down of other classes without killing them or raise the skill floor so people are punished for their mistakes.

Jana.6831:

Romu.1352:

dunno what ppl are talking about, i feel pretty comfy with venom share, tricks and dire set build against anyone in wvw.

Funny thing: each time someone says “thief is fine” and I ask them, when they last played, how their playstyle is, if they’re running with zergs etc.. it emerges that they last played thief 2 years ago, are running with zergs in eotm etc. so I’m taking your “thief is fine” with a grain of salt =)

Condi thief is fine/op in WvW roaming. I regularly dominate other classes in 1v1 and 1v2 fights. PvP as well at the lower ranked tiers at least; most 1v1 matchups are easily won, and 1v2 is usually as well as long as one of them isn’t a DH.

Jana.6831:

Romu.1352:

dunno what ppl are talking about, i feel pretty comfy with venom share, tricks and dire set build against anyone in wvw.

Funny thing: each time someone says “thief is fine” and I ask them, when they last played, how their playstyle is, if they’re running with zergs etc.. it emerges that they last played thief 2 years ago, are running with zergs in eotm etc. so I’m taking your “thief is fine” with a grain of salt =)

nice, you have salt, i will bring lemons, now we only need tequila!

I usually roam alone, flipping camps and dollys. When i am drunk then i usually play in zerg.

As i told, i feel comfy, it does not mean i kill everyone : D
It means i have some mistake rooms with my high HP, toughness and evade skills and same time nice condi damage.

So yeah, for myself, my personal opinion is that thief is fine.

Romu.1352:

Jana.6831:

Romu.1352:

dunno what ppl are talking about, i feel pretty comfy with venom share, tricks and dire set build against anyone in wvw.

Funny thing: each time someone says “thief is fine” and I ask them, when they last played, how their playstyle is, if they’re running with zergs etc.. it emerges that they last played thief 2 years ago, are running with zergs in eotm etc. so I’m taking your “thief is fine” with a grain of salt =)

nice, you have salt, i will bring lemons, now we only need tequila!

I usually roam alone, flipping camps and dollys. When i am drunk then i usually play in zerg.

As i told, i feel comfy, it does not mean i kill everyone : D
It means i have some mistake rooms with my high HP, toughness and evade skills and same time nice condi damage.

So yeah, for myself, my personal opinion is that thief is fine.

I can all do those even with player enemies defending it, but that doesn’t mean that the Thief is “fine”. It only means that even with a crappy profession, I can win a fight only because I’m a better player.

Romu.1352:

nice, you have salt, i will bring lemons, now we only need tequila!

I usually roam alone, flipping camps and dollys. When i am drunk then i usually play in zerg.

As i told, i feel comfy, it does not mean i kill everyone : D
It means i have some mistake rooms with my high HP, toughness and evade skills and same time nice condi damage.

So yeah, for myself, my personal opinion is that thief is fine.

Do you meet any players along the way, or do you base your “thief is fine” experience on PvE in WvW/EotM?

As a condi P/D user:

Roaming I can take down most people 1v1 or 1v2. I can also take down a few people when being chased around by a group of 3 or more. I have also had on occasion been able to take down 1v3, because they were bad.

In a zerg I mostly tag with SB and use venom share to spread immobilize, chill and basi venom. This lets the zerg catch people and apply their full damage potential. I basically am a super powerful support weapon for a larger group of people.

Thief does, however, face problems in certain regards largely on account of active defense abilities, high protection/block uptime, and extremely forgiving healing. DD isn’t immune to this, we’ve gotten much stronger evade, much stronger condition clear, much stronger perma swiftness, much stronger heal (CV). And all of the various new weapon sets are heavy on “active” defense type skills. Staff has lots of evades and a blind for example.

What you might say is that Anet converted passive bunker statistics, such as by removing defensive PvP amulets, into “active” play that reflects faster pace eSports “skilled play.”

Where thieves lose out is where specializations still promote bunker meta. Even losing the defensive power of statistics isn’t sufficient because active defense skills (dodge, block, etc) are more powerful than extra toughness. In WvW the problem is even more prevalent because, while they removed tanky amulets, they obviously didn’t remove tanky gear. The result is people with extremely good “active defense” abilities, strong defensive stats, and a full range of specialization buffs.

Thieves in the power meta need to rely more on hit and run or a burst method of winning fights. Strong active defense is a counter to burst. For this reason, hit and run becomes the strongest option for a power thief (although a poor one if the target has strong healing), at least against elite spec. classes using their new weapons/skill sets.

Can’t speak for wvw, as I can’t find myself ever having much fun there anymore.

For pvp, thief is still strong, but it takes a lot of dedication to the class, and a complete understanding of all opponents moves. Since you can evade on command so readily, you should be able to dodge most burst. Your mobility allows you to get to points faster than others. I decap all the time, just running mid, waiting for far to snoop close to mid and quickly getting to far for decap before they get back. No class can come close to the speed of a daredevil. We were also given a lot more burst potential with impairing daggers and fist of fury, both of which I don’t see many thieves running yet. But since thieves already struggles for sustain matches, I focus on big burst, and can really help end fights anywhere on the map. Conditions can be a problem, and necro is insane, but you can easily win necro 1v1, but it is rarely too useful. (At least they can’t kill you unless they catch you by surprise)

If you need specific help, don’t hesitate to message me. But regardless, I thnk thief is one of the hardest classes right now to play well, which is why so many hate having a thief on their team. You can’t always count on them, and a team that litteraly does all they can to prevent the thief from being useful (teamates who push all nodes all game), you are in for an uphill battle. When playing with a thief, the team needs to push hard somewhere and count on the thief to either decap or force an enemy back, so they the main fight is in your favor. If he is not accomplishing that, thief is sort of useless.

Jana.6831:

Romu.1352:

nice, you have salt, i will bring lemons, now we only need tequila!

I usually roam alone, flipping camps and dollys. When i am drunk then i usually play in zerg.

As i told, i feel comfy, it does not mean i kill everyone : D
It means i have some mistake rooms with my high HP, toughness and evade skills and same time nice condi damage.

So yeah, for myself, my personal opinion is that thief is fine.

Do you meet any players along the way, or do you base your “thief is fine” experience on PvE in WvW/EotM?

I play signets and have no problems killing other players in WvW except for the passive CC abilities most classes have now. Most invulns can be baited. Given a second stunbreak most encounters wouldn’t be too bad. And typically my losses stem from me making a mistake or the opponent simply just being trickier and catching me.

Thief just sucks in sPvP because it’s a scaling-based class but the stats are too low in sPvP in order for the scaling to be meaningful. Sad truth is it will never be a good class in the format without being OP elsewhere unless stats are changed to let the class scale as it needs to.

Remove all the passive CC effects from other classes and the whole class becomes much more solidified.

thief in wvw is fine. been solo roaming with s/d+sb core power thief valk/zerk/pack-da/cs/tr. there are uphill fights and you have to be situationally smart, abuse your environment, play mindgames and know when to disengage but its always been that way, and it should be that way. running flanking strikes/rage sigil/haste has really helped my burst also. Some fights with sustain builds are pointless and not worth fighting but its easy to disengage and leave.

imo, yeah thief is hard but it is also the only fun class in this game. Most kills versus competent opponents feels earned and i really like that about thief. Most importantly I RESPECT other thieves for staying with something difficult and challenging.

For me in PvP, I think there are two different issues.

1. If I attempt to 1v1 “tactically” by evading, interrupting, and whittling an opponent’s health down during openings he gives me, the fights last long enough for his allies to get there.

2. If I attempt to “YOLO” it by bursting an opponent down as quickly as possible, many times, his defenses are too strong for my attacks to do enough. At that point, I’m low on initiative. In this case, I’m also usually glass. That leaves me very vulnerable.

Making the maps larger would probably help the Thief a lot in finding decent 1v1 opportunities. But that’s not going to help with the current maps. It would allow sustain builds to fight longer without getting outnumbered. It would allow “assassin” builds to burst a target to weaken it, withdraw, then burst again to finish the job with less fear of losing the opportunity. Not to mention it would give a lot more opportunities to intercept and engage targets off point… which should give more advantage to the Thief. That’s one thing I love about WvW… so much room to maneuver.

Thief is indeed very difficult to play, although I still consider it viable. I’m halfway through diamond by playing soloQ thief in PvP, and I think the #1 reason we can still manage is our incredible mobility. With dash + 3 endurance bars + shadow step + SB 5 we can outrun anything. And unlike all the other classes we can cancel a fight at any time and run somewhere else, which makes us “hard to kill” even when we’re very squishy.

We still suck at 1v1 and (to some extent) team fights. I don’t even try to beat other classes anymore unless I’m with someone else, and this is our downside.