Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Am I the only one that finds no problem surviving in PVE on my D/D Thief? If it was about PVP or WvW I would understand it, but in PVE D/D is one of the best sets ever.

No, you’re not the only one. Berserker D/D is considered the best PvE combination for the thief and is required in most top-tier speed run groups. Anyone claiming that they have trouble in most content scenarios and is asking for kit buffs is experiencing a L2P issue and just needs to learn the encounters better/play better. The majority of all legitimate complaints about D/D stem from sPvP as the kit works (reasonably) for WvW with CnD’s higher damage and overall better damage values.

maddoctor.2738:

Fragility: I use Full Berserker armor, full damage build trait set-up. I use 2 ways to heal myself, Invigorating Precision trait in Critical Strikes and Withdraw healing skill. I take Withdraw instead of Signet of Malice because I might need burst heals in PVE AND it cures movement conditions, plus it has a very low cooldown, heals for a good amount and gives an extra dodge all in one skill. Using these two in combination I have the sustain I need in most PvE encounters AND I can escape easily if I’m chilled/crippled etc.

There’s no real need for Invig Precision, but I guess a durable PvE approach would make these decisions rather implicit if needed. Most skilled PvE thieves will use HK/Executioner and switch as needed before encounters. Again, this is strictly PvE. Invigorating Precision is almost worthless in PvP/WvW because you’re not dealing 5x the damage of your enemies constantly to make it break remotely even, especially without HK/Executioner, not to mention heal cuts from poison and CC effects which will cut off your healing.

maddoctor.2738:

When fighting groups of mobs I go S/P and faceroll (usually also switch Withdraw to Signet of Malice for extra healing) Pistol offhand provides extra blinds, helps with mob groups.

Problems with dots: when I really need conditions cleansing (rare in PVE) I use D/D and cleanse with Cloak and Dagger and Shadow’s Embrace. It’s a no cooldown on-demand condition cleaning that is also very spammable that also provides stealth, vulnerability and a great deal of damage (for IP). Withdraw takes care of the other conditions

The problem with SE is that it’s in the SA line. While it’s not uncommon for classes to have good condition cleansing located within a trait line, the thief lacks this elsewhere except from a very-long cooldown utility used for other purposes (Shadowstep), or on a particular mainhand weapon (sword) which can only cleanse one condition per 5 initiative. With this, the biggest issue is also the trait Last Refuge, which often causes D/D thieves to die if it procs while they attempt a CnD on their target, as this forces the revealed debuff when CnD lands instead of stealthing as desired. It’s not much of an issue for D/P as there is no attack which is used to stealth, so the proc doesn’t do anything except maybe give them stealth during their stealth.

In Summary(For now),

Sein.5160:

In short, I very broadly share the conclusions reached in the resolution to problems of Thief, for now:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

1. For all thief

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

1. For Thief D/D

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sein.5160:

- [MY opinion]For Problem of the high fragility (with low defense and Healt): 1 Perma skill passive [n°% Block and reflect fisical and conditional Dmg] OR [Auto-regenerates healing “n°” point for “n°” time];

This will not solve the “fragility” issue because poison reduces the effectiveness of health regen. The only real solution to this is to increase our base HP inline with other adventurer class (Ranger and Engi).

- For Problem with Dots: Decent condition cleansing;

ArenaNet is adding more condition removal in the next expansion and the one I like the most is condition cleanse on Trick Skill use.

Sein.5160:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

ArenaNet is adding more condition removal in the next expansion and the one I like the most is condition cleanse on Trick Skill use.

Good info because I was worried for notice for all classes condition:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/
For me is hell for all class dps x)
(However, if Anet will not exaggerate the gap between Dps/condition, it stabilizes in Pve.)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sein.5160:

- Skill Death blossom: Resolve the problem of the long-lasting and reduce consumption of initiative;

This has more problem than just the initiative cost. It also has a pre-cast and an after-cast delays that are cumbersome when used to evade attacks. The animation of Death Blossoms needs to be instant or have a reduced time delays.

At its current state, it is clunky and unreliable.

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

I’m fine with the current casting time, but I’ll agree with the projectile travel time being slow.

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Skill Dancing dagger: Reduce consumption of initiative;

…or make it bounce 5 times.

Or make it cast faster. However, with the way they will nerf all movement skills this might need more drastic changes.

I’m fine with the current casting time, but I’ll agree with the projectile travel time being slow.

Oh right the projectile speed is more important than cast time indeed. Faster dagger will be the best.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sein.5160:

- [MY opinion]Skill Cloak and dagger: Increase stack of Vulnerability.

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

maddoctor.2738:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

This might become problematic because CnD also deals a lot of damage and often followed up by Backstab. I rather see CnD to receive a reduced casting time by half.

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

The only bad thing about reducing the casting time of CnD is that it’s a very powerful skill and needs some counter play, opponents need some time to react to it

What more counter play you need in addition to Revealed?

Revealed is to keep CnD from being cast conscutively to extend the stealth duration — your target doesn’t even need to counter CnD, the game is already doing it for them.

maddoctor.2738:

It IS hard to land CnD on moving targets sometimes due to that delay. Maybe (and that’s a huge maybe) keep it as stealth granting skill, make it faster, stack more vulnerability, cost less initiative but reduce damage output? Or too much? (I guess P/D Thieves won’t mind)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

maddoctor.2738:

It IS hard to land CnD on moving targets sometimes due to that delay. Maybe (and that’s a huge maybe) keep it as stealth granting skill, make it faster, stack more vulnerability, cost less initiative but reduce damage output? Or too much? (I guess P/D Thieves won’t mind)

P/D will be strong after the expac since vuln will also boost condi dmg but I doubt D/D and S/D will be happy if CnD is nerfed/rebalanced.

Sein.5160:

- A LITTLE “revamp” with a Increase stack of Vulnerability of the skill Cloak and dagger don’t change this skill in OP… [(x% x “Def” -> x/100 x “Def”) dmg in “tot” sec] o:

Watson.6492:

+1 to everybody saying the problem is essentially that 3 and 4 are poorly designed whether or not you’re some weirdo who personally feels otherwise.