Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,
how we may stop this general hate towards our class
and the QQ drama that is always present in our forums?

any ideeas? (i saw the thief nerfing streak stopped since 2 patches ago so this is good news i guess)

Sure not. D/P nerf and larcenous strike nerf are definitely coming.

Zumy.6318:

Sure not. D/P nerf and larcenous strike nerf are definitely coming.

I use neither >:D

Then you already nerfed yourself .

I just love D/D way too much to use anything else.

This I understand. I run d/d + s/d or either one with sb.
Always falling back to d/d.

D/D is really fun. But D/P is superior, both for dueling and for small scale support.

So is a d/d elementalist. Still I chose to play thief.

d/p is useless in zergs and in anything larger than prolly 4 v 4. . . if small scale combat is so important than yes i suppose d/p is amazing. but for now its only hard to kill in roamin sense and since roaming is really nothing. why would they nerf it? they wont nerf LS bc its the ONLY thing making s/d playable. if u disagree with that tell me how TS is going to do enough dmg to kill ….or the insanely slow auto attack. AA is so slow that is why people go 3 3 3 3 3 bc its just as fast if not sometimes faster and about the same dmg basically so you get evade + boons for using 3 rather than AA. dancing dagger? AHAHHAH nuff said. CnD good but in situationally only. IS? i love this but would rather see it +1 init and hit harder.

Embrace it!

I just /laugh every time I gank someone to increase the hatred.

I also take breaks in the middle of trolling groups of enemies to /laugh while in stealth.

Likewise when thief tries to gank my Engi and can’t I /laugh to taunt them into making mistakes. No one likes to let someone live who is /laughing at them. Makes them over commit.

I like the “Blow everything out of proportion until something breaks” method of fixing problems. Not only does it get people in the proper frame of mind to tackle a situation, but once everything is kittened the only direction anyone can go in is up.

I say we all go to every other forum and kitten about the best parts of every other class until they get nerfed to hell.

As long as the main person in the balance team uses a Warrior…there will always be hate towards us Thieves.

Warrior properly used facerolls any thief.

Zumy.6318:

Warrior properly used facerolls any thief.

I wouldn’t say facerolls…but I have definitely fought some kitten good Warriors on my Thief who gave me some trouble. Pretty rare though, most of them just get killed pretty easily.

LS is a really good skill I agree, but S/D needs this skill to be even relevant. You could nerf LS but then you definately would have to buff the auto attack.

You’ll probably never stop the hate because they simply aren’t enjoyable to fight against.

It is not called “Hate” it’s called Resentment.

“Thief Resentment in General”.

Favoritism of Thief class is the cause of Resentment.

Arena net; the Parent of the classes, is Responsible of Playing Favorites.

And Yes!

It will never go away until Arena net avoid playing Favorites.

To Acknowledge, Accept, and Treat every class as Unique.

To Listen and Empathize other classes who has Favoritism concerns.

Instead of Trying to Minimize it, Deny it, Defend it and Justifying it

favoritism ? really? interesting as nobody in the developement (in game) plays a thief. unless thats changed. or should i say mains a thief.

Burnfall.9573:

It is not called “Hate” it’s called Resentment.

Thief Resentment in General.

Favoritism of Thief class is the cause of Resentment.

Arena net; the Parent of the classes, is Responsible of Playing Favorites.

And Yes!

It will never go away until Arena net avoid playing Favorites.

To Acknowledge, Accept, and Treat every class as Unique.

Favourite my backside. Thieves are only good for roaming in world v world and world completion and pretty much suck at everything else. You want favourite, get a load of Guardians. They’re good in pretty much all situations.

Guardians are requested for parties in all modes, unlike thieves who are almost ever requested for anything.

Why would I want to reduce “hate” towards thieves? It hilarious to see people complain without any facts just stating, “Stealth OP plz nerf.” I only made and used my thief to annoy people after being killed by them myself .

Now that I don’t use my thief much any more, facing them I just feel sorry. The class is very weak to most tanky builds and good (experienced) players in general.

Currently I don’t really see any build the thief has as too strong however P/D and S/D can do pretty well in duels but in larger encounters is a little less useful.

To be honest the class is more in need of buffs than nerfs and I hope A-Net makes an effort to address this.

WonderfulCT.6278:

Why would I want to reduce “hate” towards thieves? It hilarious to see people complain without any facts just stating, “Stealth OP plz nerf.” I only made and used my thief to annoy people after being killed by them myself .

Now that I don’t use my thief much any more, facing them I just feel sorry. The class is very weak to most tanky builds and good (experienced) players in general.

Currently I don’t really see any build the thief has as too strong however P/D and S/D can do pretty well in duels but in larger encounters is a little less useful.

To be honest the class is more in need of buffs than nerfs and I hope A-Net makes an effort to address this.

Exactly!!! I just can’t believe how many bad players are out there thinking that thieves are OP…

Dual.8953:

Burnfall.9573:

It is not called “Hate” it’s called Resentment.

Thief Resentment in General.

Favoritism of Thief class is the cause of Resentment.

Arena net; the Parent of the classes, is Responsible of Playing Favorites.

And Yes!

It will never go away until Arena net avoid playing Favorites.

To Acknowledge, Accept, and Treat every class as Unique.

Favourite my backside. Thieves are only good for roaming in world v world and world completion and pretty much suck at everything else. You want favourite, get a load of Guardians. They’re good in pretty much all situations.

Guardians are requested for parties in all modes, unlike thieves who are almost ever requested for anything.

Don’t bother, He just doesn’t have a fraking idea of what he’s talking about.

If thieves are favourite in something is in recieving nerfs and getting their class mechanics messed almost to the point of uselesness.

WonderfulCT.6278:

It hilarious to see people complain without any facts just stating, “Stealth OP plz nerf.”

There have been millions of reasonable arguments and explanations why “thieves are op” IN SOME SITUATIONS. You need to seperate people who are angry because they can’t handle a thief and people who play a thief and see, that something is wrong with the class.

In the end it all comes to complaining about stealth.
From my point of view there are 2 issues.

I use “hide in shadows” and “blinding power” on my p/p thief. Both skills have a 30sec/32sec cd and i think it’s fair in every 1vs1 when i stealth only 2 times. When i fight mulitple enemys i also use shadow refugee (in most cases to escape).
All these skills are fine and i wouldn’t change anything.
But that’s not all. We all know it.
There is the ability to stack stealth.
There are weapon skills like c&d.
There are combo fields.
There is the ability – the main reason why so many people complain about us/thieves – the ability to perma stealth.

All thieves love to say “l2p”. Well, my friends, now i could reply: first learn to play without stealth, then we can continue this discussion.

You can’t do that, can you?
Which brings us two issue no.2: The profession mechanic.
A guardian can do well without his three virtues.
A ranger still can be very effective without his pet.
A warrior without adrenaline still is very dangerous.
I fought several necromancers who didn’t use Death Shroud even once during the whole fight.
And so on, and so on.
But when you take stealth from thieves there is nothing left. The sad truth is: without stealth thieves are nothing.

So, on the one hand we have god mode when a thief uses stealth ALL the time.
On the other hand we have a dead thief when he doesn’t use any stealth.
I belive, what has to be done is to strike a happy medium.

Blankverse.4927:

WonderfulCT.6278:

It hilarious to see people complain without any facts just stating, “Stealth OP plz nerf.”

There have been millions of reasonable arguments and explanations why “thieves are op” IN SOME SITUATIONS. You need to seperate people who are angry because they can’t handle a thief and people who play a thief and see, that something is wrong with the class.

In the end it all comes to complaining about stealth.
From my point of view there are 2 issues.

I use “hide in shadows” and “blinding power” on my p/p thief. Both skills have a 30sec/32sec cd and i think it’s fair in every 1vs1 when i stealth only 2 times. When i fight mulitple enemys i also use shadow refugee (in most cases to escape).
All these skills are fine and i wouldn’t change anything.
But that’s not all. We all know it.
There is the ability to stack stealth.
There are weapon skills like c&d.
There are combo fields.
There is the ability – the main reason why so many people complain about us/thieves – the ability to perma stealth.

All thieves love to say “l2p”. Well, my friends, now i could reply: first learn to play without stealth, then we can continue this discussion.

You can’t do that, can you?
Which brings us two issue no.2: The profession mechanic.
A guardian can do well without his three virtues.
A ranger still can be very effective without his pet.
A warrior without adrenaline still is very dangerous.
I fought several necromancers who didn’t use Death Shroud even once during the whole fight.
And so on, and so on.
But when you take stealth from thieves there is nothing left. The sad truth is: without stealth thieves are nothing.

So, on the one hand we have god mode when a thief uses stealth ALL the time.
On the other hand we have a dead thief when he doesn’t use any stealth.
I belive, what has to be done is to strike a happy medium.

So many mistakes for someone who actually plays the class:
1- CnD is not a cheap skill which you can spam, and you can easily miss it.
2- Even if you can Spam CnD, it won’t stack, you will just reveal yourself on the second hit.
3- If you want to play without stealth, you will not benefit from the Shadow Arts tree.
4- Without stealth, you can’t perform your highest attack, backstab.
5- Guardians can survive without their virtue because their mechanic isn’t totally based over them. They can heal on each boon apply, apply boons on themselves, and heal on dodge. Virtue skills are more like an “Oh Sh….it!” buttons.
6- Rangers are weak as they are, take away their pet and a BM build, which is their toughest build, will be useless I presume.
7- Warriors already have a high damage coupled with good armor to make them last a bit.
8- Your comparison is totally wrong. If you want to compare virtue and adrenaline with anything a thief has, it would be steal. I’m pretty sure a thief can survive without using Steal.
9- Thieves are NOT GODMOD when they stealth.

Blankverse.4927:

All thieves love to say “l2p”. Well, my friends, now i could reply: first learn to play without stealth, then we can continue this discussion.

You can’t do that, can you?

Mind you, we’re not friends, but I don’t love saying “l2p” either. However, I can say that I can, and so can anyone who’s running an evasion-heavy build. Been doing it since before culling was fixed. Look some up, they can be quite useful. Here is one example, and here is another.

So, what exactly were we discussing again?

Azraeel.1238:

So many mistakes for someone who actually plays the class:

Mistakes? No, i wouldn’t call it “mistakes”. It’s just a different point of view on the class.

Azraeel.1238:

1- CnD is not a cheap skill which you can spam, and you can easily miss it.

The basic cost is 6 ini, 4 ini if you have “infusion of shadows” traited.
4 ini isn’t that much.
Easy to miss? Like every other skill that is used in close combat.

Azraeel.1238:

2- Even if you can Spam CnD, it won’t stack, you will just reveal yourself on the second hit.

You can stack it in a different way: CnD -> Blinding Powder -> Hide in Shadows -> Shadow refuge. This gives us (with Meld with shadows) 4 + 4 + 4 + 13 (=25 seconds of non-stop stealth)
There is no reveal between these skills.

Azraeel.1238:

3- If you want to play without stealth, you will not benefit from the Shadow Arts tree.

I didn’t say a thief should play without stealth. My point was – a Thief shouldn’t have the ability to perma-stealth. I thought i said that clear.

Azraeel.1238:

4- Without stealth, you can’t perform your highest attack, backstab.

I don’t use backstab. I use sneak attack. But anyway – stealth in it’s current form allows you to perform attacks from out of stealth every few seconds. Sure, i profit from it a lot, but i still think it’s too much of an advantage.
In my opinion there should be at least 10 sec reveal time between different stealth skills.
I’m very, very, very curious how all the pro stealth spammers will look like in 1vs1 with such a restriction.

Azraeel.1238:

8- Your comparison is totally wrong. If you want to compare virtue and adrenaline with anything a thief has, it would be steal. I’m pretty sure a thief can survive without using Steal.

You’re partially right here. My intention was to show, that Stealth is the main tool of every thief.
But ok, let’s have a more valid comparision – take traps from a ranger and he will still be powerful. Take minions from a necro and he still will be powerful. Take shouts or whatever from a warrior and there will be lots of good builds left. But … take stealth from a thief … and all you will hear will be “nooooo, don’t nerf us”.

9- Thieves are NOT GODMOD when they stealth.[/quote]

I didn’t say that. I said clearly – all stealth skills are ok like they are.
It’s just perma-stealth that annoys me and so many other players.

Blankverse.4927:

You’re partially right here. My intention was to show, that Stealth is the main tool of every thief.
But ok, let’s have a more valid comparision – take traps from a ranger and he will still be powerful. Take minions from a necro and he still will be powerful. Take shouts or whatever from a warrior and there will be lots of good builds left. But … take stealth from a thief … and all you will hear will be “nooooo, don’t nerf us”.

Your comparison is still invalid. Stealth is Thief’s class mechanic, not a specific build or utility. Taking it away is like taking pets away from Rangers and saying they’d be fine.

Dear Blankverse,

I am not a stealthaholic and I have been sober for 3 months.

L2P

Love,
Zacchary

Blankverse.4927:

Azraeel.1238:

So many mistakes for someone who actually plays the class:

Mistakes? No, i wouldn’t call it “mistakes”. It’s just a different point of view on the class.

Azraeel.1238:

1- CnD is not a cheap skill which you can spam, and you can easily miss it.

The basic cost is 6 ini, 4 ini if you have “infusion of shadows” traited.
4 ini isn’t that much.
Easy to miss? Like every other skill that is used in close combat.

Azraeel.1238:

2- Even if you can Spam CnD, it won’t stack, you will just reveal yourself on the second hit.

You can stack it in a different way: CnD -> Blinding Powder -> Hide in Shadows -> Shadow refuge. This gives us (with Meld with shadows) 4 + 4 + 4 + 13 (=25 seconds of non-stop stealth)
There is no reveal between these skills.

Azraeel.1238:

3- If you want to play without stealth, you will not benefit from the Shadow Arts tree.

I didn’t say a thief should play without stealth. My point was – a Thief shouldn’t have the ability to perma-stealth. I thought i said that clear.

Azraeel.1238:

4- Without stealth, you can’t perform your highest attack, backstab.

I don’t use backstab. I use sneak attack. But anyway – stealth in it’s current form allows you to perform attacks from out of stealth every few seconds. Sure, i profit from it a lot, but i still think it’s too much of an advantage.
In my opinion there should be at least 10 sec reveal time between different stealth skills.
I’m very, very, very curious how all the pro stealth spammers will look like in 1vs1 with such a restriction.

Azraeel.1238:

8- Your comparison is totally wrong. If you want to compare virtue and adrenaline with anything a thief has, it would be steal. I’m pretty sure a thief can survive without using Steal.

You’re partially right here. My intention was to show, that Stealth is the main tool of every thief.
But ok, let’s have a more valid comparision – take traps from a ranger and he will still be powerful. Take minions from a necro and he still will be powerful. Take shouts or whatever from a warrior and there will be lots of good builds left. But … take stealth from a thief … and all you will hear will be “nooooo, don’t nerf us”.

9- Thieves are NOT GODMOD when they stealth.

I didn’t say that. I said clearly – all stealth skills are ok like they are.
It’s just perma-stealth that annoys me and so many other players.

[/quote]

Plenty of people run non stealth dependent thief builds. I see tons of S/D evasion builds and D/D burst builds, neither of which has access to stealth to the extent of D/P. I personally ran P/P and D/D with both 25/30/0/0/15 and 10/30/0/30/0 traitlines

I only swapped to D/P for two reasons: 1 it plays similar to the D/D build I was running but with more backstab access and 2. It has an interrupt to prevent heals. I also love the D/P 3 for staying on target.

I’d say the real reason so many thieves go 30 into SA and go for stealth is this:

While some classes have traitlines/signets/or base damages that reward them with damage even while building tankiness, thieves must spec damage to get damage. Our skills have low base damages and we rely on bursting targets hard and running away. Speccing shadow arts gives us staying power we would not have otherwise because it offers the ability to avoid damage through deception and to heal our small hp pool in-combat and stay longer in the fight.

In order for us to utilize less stealth we would have to be buffed somewhere else. Given the class’s design, that would probably be damage. Making us more visible but more bursty would only result in more newbie tears. The thief class is basically an assassin. Get in, kill target, get out. No matter if stealth was completely removed, so long as we have the tools to fulfill our intended role the cries for nerfs will never stop.

Renxian

First of all..

You stated that “the thief class is basically an assassin. Get in, kill target, get out”.

I would like to correct you on that, an Assassin doesn’t use stealth to
get in, kill target, and get out. In support; Guild Wars 1 Assassin..
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Never once they had to use Stealth to “Get in, kill target, get out”.

Therefore

Thief and Assassin are no way the same.

In addition,

Guild Wars 1 Assassin t’ill this day would Eliminate Stealth Thief “without breaking a sweat” in 1v1 and 1vs +.

They were never a “stealth” class or a “hybrid class”. or a “confusing”: class or as someone has put it, :“a class without an identity”

They were true to their class..

Yet Guild Wars 2 Stealth thief aren’t..

(See this thread) Thief is not a thief.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-is-not-a-Thief

Lastly,

I would like to correct you, “No matter if stealth was completely removed, so long as we have the tools to fulfill our intended role the cries for nerfs will never stop”.

Seriously.

Have you been following up on the Removal of Stealth Thief threads and posts in the forums?

The top listed concerns in all the forums is the Removal of Stealth Thief.

Why would the “cries” continue?

In fact

If you also been following up on the thief forums, many thief players are demanding and requiring Arena net to convert the Stealth Thief class to Guild Wars 1 Assassin class.

As a former Guild Wars 1 veteran,

No one Ever “cried” about Assassin being treated as Favorites or as being
“The Golden Child” class".

In fact,

Assassins worked hard with great effort to earn their Rewards.

Unlike Stealth thief’s who are Freely given their Rewards “upfront” requiting; no effort, no skills, no counter, no cool-down and no hard-work whatsoever.

Assassins when Nerfed were Nerfed.

Unlike Stealth Thief when Nerfed are Rewarded in Return

Therefore

What more Evidence do you need of why Stealth Thief is

Resented?.

Zacchary.6183:

Dear Blankverse,

I am not a stealthaholic and I have been sober for 3 months.

L2P

Love,
Zacchary

ooooh someone had a well thought out explanation of how thieves are in a tricky situation where thieves can be god mode, but can’t be fixed without completely breaking them, and it took less than one page for one to write L2P.

….and the thief community is shocked, SHOCKED!! that there’s so much hate towards them.

Renxian

Since you “read the forums regularly” you will await your Fate for Disciplinary Violation of Code of Conduct.

Calling a horse a horse was well worth any infraction that may be issued. In the meantime, I hope you take the opportunity to learn to read and respond to opposing viewpoints instead of regurgitating rubbish every time you post.

Ofc, we both know that won’t happen, just like we both know you will get shanked by some thief again and be back here with more tears tomorrow.

More like calling a troll a troll. Sorry Ren, dont get your hopes up on him learning anything, it apparently requires much less effort to cry and troll than it does to improve ones knowledge and abillity. And we can clearly see which path Burnfall takes

Shemsu.8721:

More like calling a troll a troll. Sorry Ren, dont get your hopes up on him learning anything, it apparently requires much less effort to cry and troll than it does to improve ones knowledge and abillity. And we can clearly see which path Burnfall takes

Yeah, I just don’t understand the run and cry to anet types.

I mean, I hate mesmers more than this guy hates thieves and you don’t see me trolling the Mesmer forums.

I agree 100%, the gw2 community as a whole needs someone like Day9, to foster peoples willingness to learn and grow. Look how strong the starcraft community is (not saying its only a result of Day9, but that guy has alot of influence and one the best attitudes towards competition i’ve ever seen) And starcraft is full of cheese strats yet people learn to counter them and improve themselves instead of endless crying

DanH.5879:

Hi guys,
how we may stop this general hate towards our class
and the QQ drama that is always present in our forums?

any ideeas? (i saw the thief nerfing streak stopped since 2 patches ago so this is good news i guess)

Maybe that should tell you, all other thief fans and the devs something….

I have never seen more thieves in WVW. And thats a lot of thieves.

Helcor.9527:

DanH.5879:

Hi guys,
how we may stop this general hate towards our class
and the QQ drama that is always present in our forums?

any ideeas? (i saw the thief nerfing streak stopped since 2 patches ago so this is good news i guess)

Maybe that should tell you, all other thief fans and the devs something….

I have never seen more thieves in WVW. And thats a lot of thieves.

There’s more of everything. People want their World XP Chests. Thieves just tend to stand out because of their tendancy to solo.

I don’t really hate thieves.. okay sometimes I do. Mostly I view them as a complete non-entity, that I wish would go away. Is that a contradiction? I don’t even know…. I never feel…. mad if I die to a thief. I think once you die to them so much, you stop caring. I honestly care more if I lose to pretty much any other class except mesmers.

So, no I don’t hate them. I wish they would go to some faraway land though

You wont stop them. They will all leech onto stealth and blame it for the reason they lost and QQ about it, because they cant just admit they got outplayed. Its a pretty annoying fact of life, but most people are like that now. Personally I think parents should hit their kids more like in the old days, instead of telling them theyre all the best at everything and super special.

Blankverse.4927:

Azraeel.1238:

So many mistakes for someone who actually plays the class:

Mistakes? No, i wouldn’t call it “mistakes”. It’s just a different point of view on the class.

Azraeel.1238:

1- CnD is not a cheap skill which you can spam, and you can easily miss it.

The basic cost is 6 ini, 4 ini if you have “infusion of shadows” traited.
4 ini isn’t that much.
Easy to miss? Like every other skill that is used in close combat.

Azraeel.1238:

2- Even if you can Spam CnD, it won’t stack, you will just reveal yourself on the second hit.

You can stack it in a different way: CnD -> Blinding Powder -> Hide in Shadows -> Shadow refuge. This gives us (with Meld with shadows) 4 + 4 + 4 + 13 (=25 seconds of non-stop stealth)
There is no reveal between these skills.

Azraeel.1238:

3- If you want to play without stealth, you will not benefit from the Shadow Arts tree.

I didn’t say a thief should play without stealth. My point was – a Thief shouldn’t have the ability to perma-stealth. I thought i said that clear.

Azraeel.1238:

4- Without stealth, you can’t perform your highest attack, backstab.

I don’t use backstab. I use sneak attack. But anyway – stealth in it’s current form allows you to perform attacks from out of stealth every few seconds. Sure, i profit from it a lot, but i still think it’s too much of an advantage.
In my opinion there should be at least 10 sec reveal time between different stealth skills.
I’m very, very, very curious how all the pro stealth spammers will look like in 1vs1 with such a restriction.

Azraeel.1238:

8- Your comparison is totally wrong. If you want to compare virtue and adrenaline with anything a thief has, it would be steal. I’m pretty sure a thief can survive without using Steal.

You’re partially right here. My intention was to show, that Stealth is the main tool of every thief.
But ok, let’s have a more valid comparision – take traps from a ranger and he will still be powerful. Take minions from a necro and he still will be powerful. Take shouts or whatever from a warrior and there will be lots of good builds left. But … take stealth from a thief … and all you will hear will be “nooooo, don’t nerf us”.

9- Thieves are NOT GODMOD when they stealth.

I didn’t say that. I said clearly – all stealth skills are ok like they are.
It’s just perma-stealth that annoys me and so many other players.

1- 4 Initiative is actually expensive as well. Plus I don’t have the trait you listed because I use blind on stealth and cure one condition in stealth instead, which is more effective than returning two initiatives. Maybe because you don’t play D/D, and Backstab, you don’t understand the impact of missing a CnD. Every CnD missed is one less attempt to backstab, and this means your opponent got the upper hand.

2- I know you can stack stealth that way, but guess what, you just blew up all your cooldowns, now you are just a sitting duck for 4 long seconds. I highly doubt anyone does that for only 1 backstab. Moreover Shadows Refuge is risky, leaving it before it expires will cause you revealed (Knock back, pulled by enemy), not to mention it alerts them of your position.

3- Stacking stealth is not perma-stealth, eventually you will leave stealth even if it was for a second to reapply stealth.

4- 10 seconds revealed? Seriously? Do you know what makes thieves do more single damage than warriors? It is the backstab burst damage. Increase revealed to 10 seconds and you will see the overall burst totally killed in PvE. Just because you don’t use backstab doesn’t mean Anet should kill the build… Please play D/D and see how tough it is. 4 seconds revealed is more than enough to kill a thief if they didn’t slip away smartly.

8- Stealth and dodge are the two main defensive mechanisms a thief has, if you want to take either, you need to compensate.

9- There is no such thing as perma stealth, you can see them even if for a split of a second to reapply their stealth, and only D/P got access to such easy stealth.

Azraeel.1238:

[…]

I used to play d/d, s/d, d/p etc a bit but i just like p/p more then anything else, i can’t help it, even if it’s not so effective like other combinations.

Our different opinions about stealth may have something to do with the fact, that we have completely different visions what a thief should be and what he should not be.

I already stated it in another thread – i am a bad thief, a really bad thief.
I used to play ranger since the beginning. A few weeks ago i got a bit bored with ranger though, so i switched to thief and now i mostly play thief.
So far, so good.
The only problem is, i miss something when i play thief.

When i had a good, long fight with other players on my ranger and i won, i felt satisfaction. I knew i deserved that small victory. I was the better one. Or more lucky one, whatever.
When i kill someone on my thief, i never feel such satisfaction, i never think in terms of “being better”, because i know for sure: “it has nothing do to with being better, i WON because i have STEALTH”.
So if i want stealth in it’s current form to be removed, i do it for egoistic reasons, because i want fair 1vs1 fights, which give me as much satisfaction on thief as i have on ranger.

I personally like stealth because it gives me a totally different gameplay than other classes. Coming after playing Necromancer, Warrior, and a Guardian, took me a lot of time to actually get used to playing a thief, but had a lot of fun with it. If they take away stealth, but offered me no other alternative for a unique gameplay, I will stop playing the thief. But even now I play my Necromancer more lol.

Teamkiller.4315:

D/D is really fun. But D/P is superior, both for dueling and for small scale support.

Thats not true. It all depends on how your thief is built. It costs more to stealth as a D/P than a D/D, if your a might backstabber, then its easier to run D/D.

Fiorrello.8126:

all that aside i see the the thief community, as a whole, as a toxic community. smugly telling people to L2P doesn’t help anyone. i guess i’m glad that these people populate the thief forums, and not the warrior forums as much, but still its some pretty elitist and disrespectful stuff.

I never even entered the mesmer- or necromancer forum, but i regulary visit ranger-, engineer-, warrior-, and thief-forums. I can’t remember any hatethreads against engineers, rangers or warriors. Some complaints – yes. But not such hate like here.

When so many people, playing so many classes, have problems to fight thieves, there must be a bigger problem with balance, not with the individual abilities of those players (*). Thieves can repeat “l2p” till the world ends, but this won’t solve anything, this won’t help nobody. It’s not an answer, not an argument, not a solution, not even a fact. It’s just something, that pets a thief’s ego and makes him feel elite.

(*) Also keep in mind, that this is a game for everyone, more skilled players as well as less skilled players, very ambitous players and not so ambitious players, players with plenty of time and players who play only 1h a day or less.
It should not be that way, that ONE class can be killed only by experienced players.

I dare to say, that elite players, the ones who are skilled, experienced and don’t need any more lessons how to play, are NOT the core of the game community. They are maybe 10% of the whole playerbase, maybe even less. 90% are people who are average players. Telling them “l2p” just because they have problems with the hide and seek concept of fighting a thief is just a proof of arogance.

Blankverse.4927:

I dare to say, that elite players, the ones who are skilled, experienced and don’t need any more lessons how to play, are NOT the core of the game community. They are maybe 10% of the whole playerbase, maybe even less. 90% are people who are average players. Telling them “l2p” just because they have problems with the hide and seek concept of fighting a thief is just a proof of arogance.

You know, we tried telling everyone how to kill us multiple times. The only thing that ever came out of it was spam and flame. Now we feel its more practical to tell everyone l2p since it packs everything we’ve said into 3 letters and brings about more of a response.

If the thief community keeps telling everyone to l2p, eventually they will l2p and then come back with testimonies like the second link in my sig. So no we are not arrogant, we just want everyone to get off our kitten .

Really anyone who loses to a thief 1v1 just need to L2P.

Zacchary.6183:

Blankverse.4927:

I dare to say, that elite players, the ones who are skilled, experienced and don’t need any more lessons how to play, are NOT the core of the game community. They are maybe 10% of the whole playerbase, maybe even less. 90% are people who are average players. Telling them “l2p” just because they have problems with the hide and seek concept of fighting a thief is just a proof of arogance.

You know, we tried telling everyone how to kill us multiple times. The only thing that ever came out of it was spam and flame. Now we feel its more practical to tell everyone l2p since it packs everything we’ve said into 3 letters and brings about more of a response.

If the thief community keeps telling everyone to l2p, eventually they will l2p and then come back with testimonies like the second link in my sig. So no we are not arrogant, we just want everyone to get off our kitten .

Yes, your sig is a thread where the OP gives an apocryphal story with no specifics as to how he manages his liteness against thieves as a warrior, and every other post in the thread gives actual specifics about how yes….stealth is in fact difficult to counter. It’s pretty ironic that the thieves mantra in these forums is “L2P we can easily be countered” when in fact the only way stealth is countered is when the thief himself doesn’t know how to L2P.

Zacchary.6183:

Blankverse.4927:

I dare to say, that elite players, the ones who are skilled, experienced and don’t need any more lessons how to play, are NOT the core of the game community. They are maybe 10% of the whole playerbase, maybe even less. 90% are people who are average players. Telling them “l2p” just because they have problems with the hide and seek concept of fighting a thief is just a proof of arogance.

You know, we tried telling everyone how to kill us multiple times. The only thing that ever came out of it was spam and flame. Now we feel its more practical to tell everyone l2p since it packs everything we’ve said into 3 letters and brings about more of a response.

If the thief community keeps telling everyone to l2p, eventually they will l2p and then come back with testimonies like the second link in my sig. So no we are not arrogant, we just want everyone to get off our kitten .

If we are going to be completely honest here. There is no solid counter for stealth. A properly played thief should see only 2 outcomes to any engagement. A draw or a win. There is no this is how you counter a thief guide because there is no true counter play. This is due to a number of issues primarily the capability to spam a skill (though it can not be done indefinitely), strong access to stealth, and superior maneuverability to every other class.

I admit in most cases there are things to be learned to counter some of what a thief the fact remains that you have a classes that can choose to disengage at will. The more I play the more I realize that thief is simply WvW imbalanced. There is not real solution because WvW = PvE and in PvE thieves are somewhat under powered.

Whatever the case may be thief is a class that should not, in its current form, have made it into the game or any game for that matter. Both strong access to combat stealth and spammable evades and/or DPS have been a “no no” in MMOs. It leans toward play that is nigh abusive (CnD trolling a raid, perma stealth DP, constant evade shortbow, Larcenous Strike spamming, etc.). That being said I get why you get angry but at the same time what are you going to tell someone how has a fully geared thief at least 100 hours on it and plays other classes? The honest truth is most of the time when any player downs a thief the thief messed up.

Even with all that most thieves are beat easily (if you call forcing a draw a win) by veteran players. Likely due to the skill gap caused by having to deal with them so often. None the less a good thief will always push any engagement to 2 conclusion. A win for the thief or a draw.

Zacchary.6183:

You know, we tried telling everyone how to kill us multiple times. The only thing that ever came out of it was spam and flame.

Maybe because many of those hot tips and recipes “how to kill a thief” are often pure theory and don’t work so well in combat? Ever considered that?

When i roam i meet different players. From newbie Invaders to Bronze xyz.

I noticed that many players expect backstabs when they see a thief. And – yes, they do their best to avoid backstabs. But as i said, i use pistols. So all i have to do is: pop up -> sneak attack ->unload ->black powder -> autoattack ->stealth ->repeat.
I don’t even try to come closer and land a backstab and the player i fight with CAN NOT forsee where i will pop up next (with almost full hp and ini).
This method doesn’t work against very tanky builds and most guardians but i can honestly say (don’t get me wrong, i’m not trying to brag, it’s a fact): only one (1!) ranger from maybe 20-30 was able to kill me.
Is it so because i am a batter player? Hell, no.
Is it so because i use some kind of clever tactic? No.
Is it so because i have access to stealth? Yes.