Guild Wars 2

gimmethegepgun.1284:

And then you derailing for a page because you don’t know that 100nades isn’t the name of a skill.

made my day lol

AND WHY THE HELL DO I FEEL LIKE PLAYING DEUS EX NOW?

naphack.9346:

AND WHY THE HELL DO I FEEL LIKE PLAYING DEUS EX NOW?

I dunno, I just have that effect on people wherever I go.
Must be a gift

naphack.9346:

100 nades got removed cause it was never intended to work that way.
Backstab works as intended. That’s the whole difference.
And if you still wanna look at it from a balance stand point, look, what the thief can do if you get away from him after he blew his initiation and before he could backstab you and what the engi can do.
Got out of net before he got to you? Oh, wait, still got magnet pull. Got away from that? let’s grab stability and overcharge shot him.
Got away from that? well, just get the tool kit and block a bit, net should be up again in a couple seconds.
The engineer could drive you into a corner simply with the mere possibility of him using 100nades, while you’d have to use stun breaks, immob breaks and dodges on every single skill he throws at you.
Thief? Evade the backstab, he just burnt 3 long cooldowns and got nothing to fall back on besides going into stealth and running away.
I said before and I will say it again, there is a huge difference betwee them. If I had to nail the biggest difference, it’d be, that with 100 nades, you are dead, as soon, as you take the first burst of damage, cause that burst is already 120-150% of your hp. CnD, Mug, BS, HS is 3 bursts, which come in very short succession, but you can always dodge out after the first burst and use a HEAL to make the rest of the combo pointless. Tell me, how you can outheal a 100nade build.

QFT

And for those wondering how you tell when a thief is going to do a backstab combo. There is only two ways for a D/D thief to attack at range without swapping out for another weapon. One where he throws a dagger that no one uses for anything but kiting since the 50% damage nerf, and the other is to use steal to close the distance.

This is why it’s always obvious when a thief is going to do a C&D backstab combo. If he does cloak and dagger at range, and not use a gap closer, he’s just wasted half his initiative for nothing. The only thing you need to remember is the cloak and dagger animation, to see it coming from a mile away.

Half a second is nearly twice the amount of time the average person needs to react to a situation where they know how to act, so there’s no good excuse for being unable to stop it.

Technically, you can fake cast C&D to provoke a dodge if you get faced with someone like that. Just stow your weapons during the C&D animation and you won’t use initiative.

I am often too lazy to read such animations anyway. Reacting to damage is easier than reacting to subtle animations. Mug->CnD, if it eats more than 20% of my health, I stun break or dodge(if no BV) out and heal before he can backstab me, then his mug is on cd and I can get ready to lay down CC on the thief as soon as he gets out of stealth.
Probably not the most efficient solution, cause you burn a heal, but it surely is the easiest one to pull off.

randomfightfan.4091:

Always solid advice. To anyone who sees this post, please do yourself (and everyone else) a BIG favour by ignoring the trolls forz and gimme. They will ignore any points you have in your post and just try to spam thief hate down your throat.

I really don’t know about gimme, but… I didn’t even touch the debate, and I’m a thief player on top of that, you should chill out. 100nades is a bug, yes. But just because you pointed at a bug doesn’t mean that our thief gameplay is the illustration of skill itself.

True enough. I always react to the animation though out of habit. I tend to roam in WvW a lot to level up alts, and just the steal and cloak and dagger is often too much damage to deal with alone when wearing level 40-ish gear.

On my thief, I just shadow-step away after the C&D though.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

Is there none in ranger? The ranger needs to make sure that the pet can hit the enemy, by stunning/immobilizing/crippling or blocking the enemy. The stun skills the Ranger has only stun if he shoots from the side/back. What makes the thief have more play? The thief can become invisible, granting him a much greater ease of positioning himself behind the target.

From experience; the thief tries to escape if he fails with his burst whereas the ranger need to prevent the enemy from healing after the spike or drag out the fight if the spike fails until the next can be done.

“150% your max HP in damage.” What?
Do you imply that it’s bad that someone can deal huge damage to someone with glass cannon build?

150% of max hp is 15k damage against light armor that doesn’t have extra toughness/vitality, i.e. runs glass cannon

solrik.6028:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Because there is play in thief burst. There is play there, and that spike isn’t a single attack that’s 150% your max HP in damage. Thieves need to execute a series of skills in a row, in which at any time the victim has the potential to mitigate or have some sort of play to save themselves or stop the thief. You just don’t see that with the 100nades stuff, or its a window so narrow that we as devs weren’t happy with the play from both sides of the equation as attacker/defender.

Is there none in ranger? The ranger needs to make sure that the pet can hit the enemy, by stunning/immobilizing/crippling or blocking the enemy. The stun skills the Ranger has only stun if he shoots from the side/back. What makes the thief have more play? The thief can become invisible, granting him a much greater ease of positioning himself behind the target.

From experience; the thief tries to escape if he fails with his burst whereas the ranger need to prevent the enemy from healing after the spike or drag out the fight if the spike fails until the next can be done.

“150% your max HP in damage.” What?
Do you imply that it’s bad that someone can deal huge damage to someone with glass cannon build?

150% of max hp is 15k damage against light armor that doesn’t have extra toughness/vitality, i.e. runs glass cannon

Just read my post as to why a single one frame attack dealing 150% of your hp in damage is bad.
GC spec doesn’t matter. Losing 100% of your hp in one single frame is just bad.

naphack.9346:

Just read my post as to why a single one frame attack dealing 150% of your hp in damage is bad.
GC spec doesn’t matter. Losing 100% of your hp in one single frame is just bad.

In one single frame?

Do you know what some thiefs do in spvp?
Stun boom baam downed “in one single frame”… Seriously in such a short time that I couldn’t even pop my stun breaker! I had to use stability to avoid it. (not that this isn’t based on “now”)

I am not a thief expert but I can say this: I have experienced every class’ build that downs someone “in one single frame” and each can be countered in a way.

thiefs combo is 3 seperate attacks -_- If that’s a single frame for you, you should maybe toss away that old C64 and buy something new :>
You can counter it at any stage without much of a problem.
Of course, I have also died to such chains without being able to do anything, but only if said opponent managed to surprise me from behind. If you see the thief approaching and he STILL manages to gib you, you should reconsider your build.

At the minimum, there’s 15 frames for the animation of Backstab which casts in 1/4s :p

Joke aside, the thief combo isn’t that fast. Assuming a worst case scenario where you didn’t see it coming at all, the C&D/Mug combo hits you before you see anything. As this point, the thief needs to place himself in your back to do the real Backstab damage. This can vary from “nothing at all to do cause him pretty sure my target didn’t see me and I was in his back already with I did Mug” to “ok, I petrified that guy, he’s kind of twisting around himself, his back to the ground cause I got him during the animation of a strange skill. Now where the heck is his back? Ok i’ll try here”

naphack.9346:

thiefs combo is 3 seperate attacks -_- If that’s a single frame for you, you should maybe toss away that old C64 and buy something new :>
You can counter it at any stage without much of a problem.
Of course, I have also died to such chains without being able to do anything, but only if said opponent managed to surprise me from behind. If you see the thief approaching and he STILL manages to gib you, you should reconsider your build.

Alright I won’t discuss this further because you seem to ignore parts of my replies.

What I consider the time the combo needs to spike you from full health is from the moment you take the first (serious) damage to the moment, you are downed. For thief, that’s somewhere between 1 and 2 seconds, for a 100 nade engi, that’s anywhere between 1 and 3 frames.

naphack, stop. The build is gone, you’re free to go.

stof.9341:

At the minimum, there’s 15 frames for the animation of Backstab which casts in 1/4s :p

Joke aside, the thief combo isn’t that fast. Assuming a worst case scenario where you didn’t see it coming at all, the C&D/Mug combo hits you before you see anything. As this point, the thief needs to place himself in your back to do the real Backstab damage. This can vary from “nothing at all to do cause him pretty sure my target didn’t see me and I was in his back already with I did Mug” to “ok, I petrified that guy, he’s kind of twisting around himself, his back to the ground cause I got him during the animation of a strange skill. Now where the heck is his back? Ok i’ll try here”

CND combo is easy to counter. Some thieves can pull it off quicker than others, especially if they do it from behind you.

The only thing you need to know about how to stop thief burst is that when you see yourself turn to stone, use a teleport or immunity stun break.

The main damage from the combo is the backstab, avoid that and you won’t die.

Thief is over nerfed. Overhaul it but pls dont nerf it anymore.

Thief needs to get nerfed.
Still able to be perma invisible and burst 6k crits without needing skill.

@Areaki

yes nerf thief!!! So many thieves play in high rated pvp!! What? Thief in tpvp ? He must be really good man pro player… I wouldnt be shock if someone in near future will say traps from thief are OP nerf it. Body shot? 5 vulnerability OP omg !! Every thief can backstab a noob for 6k crit. You are 100% right. Its very easy.

Arekai.5698:

Thief needs to get nerfed.
Still able to be perma invisible and burst 6k crits without needing skill.

dont need skill to kill newbies from with any class..

@arekai IF THEY do that ur going to see bursts for 12 seconds instead of 2…..in a burst a thief uses everythign then has to wait forever to even do anyhthing other than auto attack/run/dodge/evade etc. know hwat ur talking about before you talk about classes u havent played. playing thief is on of the 2 hardest(other bieng ele)

Arekai.5698:

Thief needs to get nerfed.
Still able to be perma invisible and burst 6k crits without needing skill.

Can’t burst for 6K without Backstab.

Can’t Backstab unless you’re in stealth.

Can’t attack from stealth without getting Revealed.

Can’t be permanently invisible if you’re under the effects of Revealed.

Your statement is self-defeating.

Leeto.1570:

Strayhand.8216:

Leeto.1570:

Ah good to hear that he can beat bad thief on ranger in 1v1, thief`s must be really fine or our dev just is not completely handicapped. Good news either way.

So if a ranger beat a thief, then the thief must be bad, but if a thief beats bads in videos, he must be OP. The double standards again, welcome to MMO forums.

Ye cause ranger can totally log into wvwvw and kill group of 5 people and then escape any zerg… everybody is annoyed by thief in wvwvw not in sPVP environment. You may say wvwvw doesnt matter or whatever but theres no reason why 7 professions should play wvwvw one way and then thief just walks wherever he wants in god mode.

“Mundo goes where Mundo pleases.” (mundo is not a thief). Wrong game, I know, but that is what the thief does (ever since dnd). What you’re talking about is not a class mechanic but a class concept! Therefore, the meaning you intend is there should not be a thief class: literally or effectively.

Also, thief is probably the farthest from God mode. Thief takes planning and good execution to simply be average and predictable. Playing my warrior after running as a thief is like taking off the weight vest after owning a 2 on 1 match in a sports drink commercial. If you want God mode, roll Guardian. I walked through packs of hyenas that killed my warrior without a single down on my guardian. Guardian buffs, traits, and aegis can mitigate huge amounts of damage, while the guardian still is a significant dps and hps source. Roll a thief, get to lv 40 without any sort of crafting or wvw leveling, and then come tell me how OP they are.

Lastly, if you think thief wvw vids are grisly, go watch the warrior ones. I found one gs+axe shield war take down three waves of people then heal himself and type “lol” to a bystander calling him pro. It was ludicrous. Trust me, if all the people manning the “op” thief gods walked out and played guardian, warrior, mesmer, elementalist, ranger, engineer, necromancer. You would not like this alternative. I have a hammer warrior with 4 theads of regen, 4k of crit, and enough inherent defence you wouldn’t guess she’s in berserker. I got a planned critmancer, tested in the mists, with free enfeebling blood/spectral armor/and lifesteal to make you want to switch forums and start crying op elsewhere. In addition to those fact, this necro sits in ds so much you wouldn’t believe its a blood build. If I start discussing hammer guardian, this wall of text will turn into a tower of missives. I’m not even the best strategist or player. Trust me cub (char ref!), The devil you know here is much, much better than the devil you’re begging for.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Until I actually went and made such a thief out of spite. I’ll admit right now I am not much a thief player… Only about level 30 in PvE, and about 10 games played as thief in SPvP – but in those few games I would just dominate people.

And you don’t see a problem with this? A self-admitted unskilled player dominating because of what a class can do, not because of what you personally have done. This is the problem with the thief. Not that skilled players can’t counter them, that unskilled players can catch a MAJOR break simply by rolling a thief.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

But in playing that thief, I learned how to counter that thief. Bring a stun breaker, a condi removal, some CC, and know how/when to dodge roll. It doesn’t work all the time, especially if my stunbreaker is on CD from a previous fight (Pistol Whip is rough!), but if a thief gets the jump on me I have about 2 seconds to react, and then I make the thief pay.

You learned how to play period. Its just that the thief was the class that forced it upon you. You need a stun breaker, you need condi removal, you need CC, you need all of that in almost every fight. The difference is, with thieves, you’re forced to react much faster than with other classes, and you need ALL of those tools available. That’s why it “doesn’t work all the time” … those are the times you were either slow on the draw or fought a thief after fighting [insert non-thief class here].

The problem with the current situation is that reaction time fights always favor the attacker, and you guys have built an invisible, teleporting, spike damage, lock-on, skill spammer class. Unless your attacker has the reaction time of a drunken snail, you’re constantly playing catch-up. If you’ve got good enough skill, you can pull yourself out a win. The theif, on the other hand, does not have to perform nearly to the same standards in order to achieve victory. Put that kind of a buffer zone in the hands of an attacker and you’ve got the ultimate “noob ganker” class.

This is why there are so many “L2P” posts in the thief forum. There are literally people in this world who will play one class and never care/desire enough to play another to equal lengths. When it happens to be the thief, they have a skewed perception of what it takes to play the game well.

Ekemeister.8905:

Also, thief is probably the farthest from God mode. Thief takes planning and good execution to simply be average and predictable. Playing my warrior after running as a thief is like taking off the weight vest after owning a 2 on 1 match in a sports drink commercial. If you want God mode, roll Guardian. I walked through packs of hyenas that killed my warrior without a single down on my guardian. Guardian buffs, traits, and aegis can mitigate huge amounts of damage, while the guardian still is a significant dps and hps source. Roll a thief, get to lv 40 without any sort of crafting or wvw leveling, and then come tell me how OP they are.

Rolling a guard in PvE and soaking damage while sucking on your thumb is not comparable to what it takes to PvP with one. Sorry, but your talking about the opposite side of the game here. Warriors are PvE gods because the mobs in this game don’t kite you, they hardly CC you, they have big “dodge now” telegraphed hits, they don’t go invisible every 3 (now 4) seconds, they don’t heal themsleves, and they sure as hell don’t cure their conditions.

So yeah, go roll the CnD/Steal/BS thief in PvE and let me know how terrible he is. How much he needs improvement because he doesn’t one-shot Kralkatorrik and therefore he’s worthless. I’ll still be fighting them in sPvP and WvW because its just such a terrible build.

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Amins.3710:

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Good job talking when you don’t have a clue how the game works. Stealthing does not remove combat… ever. You can agro a mob, use refugee and afk near the mob and you’ll never leave combat as long as the mob lives and you’re near.

yeah. what humorless said. if u have only played your class plz dont talk about others. wasting paper and killing trees and all :P

Humorless.1573:

Amins.3710:

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Good job talking when you don’t have a clue how the game works. Stealthing does not remove combat… ever. You can agro a mob, use refugee and afk near the mob and you’ll never leave combat as long as the mob lives and you’re near.

Clearly you missed the point, so let me spell it out….

Yes, stealth and ~staying by the mob~ does nothing for getting out of combat.

Stealthing and port/blink/leap (whatever you feel like calling it) 1200 range, however, does. It gives you full health and full initiative while you walk back into combat.

More importantly, you can apply a condition or agro mobs and train them into your opponent and then do this… leaving your opponent in combat while thieves have the luxury of getting out of combat.

Maybe it’s you who doesn’t understand the nuances of the class.

[EDIT] I do not want a thief’s damaged nerfed… I never have, but stealth needs a big fat kick in the nutz.

Amins.3710:

Humorless.1573:

Amins.3710:

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Good job talking when you don’t have a clue how the game works. Stealthing does not remove combat… ever. You can agro a mob, use refugee and afk near the mob and you’ll never leave combat as long as the mob lives and you’re near.

Clearly you missed the point, so let me spell it out….

Yes, stealth and ~staying by the mob~ does nothing for getting out of combat.

Stealthing and port/blink/leap (whatever you feel like calling it) 1200 range, however, does. It gives you full health and full initiative while you walk back into combat.

More importantly, you can apply a condition or agro mobs and train them into your opponent and then do this… leaving your opponent in combat while thieves have the luxury of getting out of combat.

Maybe it’s you who doesn’t understand the nuances of the class.

[EDIT] I do not want a thief’s damaged nerfed… I never have, but stealth needs a big fat kick in the nutz.

you so obviously dont play a thief. if u nerf stealth would u be ok with us having aegis…protection…retaliation and confusion? or just give us the warriors standard defensive levels? i mean if ur going to kick our stealth in the nuts ….its funny…even as stealth the way it is…the devs wanna give us a lil boost to our defens……i guess stealth cant be that strong.. point its is that its SOOOOOOOOOO annoying for other players….just like mesmers doing it and making clones at same time. atleast a thief doesnt do constatn dmg in stealth. a mesmer can tho. also a thief cant drop battle mode by running away. if he DOES get far enough away the other person will heal up too just like the thief. if he does its bc he has a condition….which is totally 100% circumtstancial as im sure the thief could have had condis too. trust me nobody is putting condis to do dmg then running far enough to heal. if they are …then the other person ihas a really bad build. bring anti stun….condi removal…and CC of your own to wvw. if u dont go play pve. ty

MrForz.1953:

Nope, definitely not. If you really didn’t like the huge amount of time you had for you to dodge that Magnet Pull there is nothing we can do for you.

Besides… I’m sure that if 100nades was strapped on a Warrior they wouldn’t even look at it, doesn’t feel like “Nobody’s supposed to burst for 24k damage” but rather “Hell no, Engineers shouldn’t do that much damage”.

If you’re referring to the amount of damage 100b does, you have to realize how hard it is to actually land the burst, much harder than it is to land pistol whip. The next best burst on warrior is the axe’s eviscerate burst which deals 12k to the squishiest of targets. I’m not sure if you know but warriors are the most kitten right now in terms of sPvP, and against a skilled player there’s not much you can do but survive and hope a friend comes along to finish said player off for you. I play my thief in sPvP because of this and honstly I’m waiting on the warrior buff so that I can go back to playing the class I love in sPvP and tPvP. (Don’t get me wrong, I love thief in sPvP and won’t even trade my guardian for it, but warriors are far from OP, which is what you’re inferring.)

Theres always much hate on the Stealth class in any game.. and thats mostly cuz of the low risk, high gain aspect.. nothing gona change that.

Amins.3710:

Humorless.1573:

Amins.3710:

The problem is the thieves ability to get out of combat via stealth and back into combat while their opponent is still stuck in combat… giving the thief a full health bar during re-engagement.

It’s a joke. The “Revel” buff did absolutely ~nothing~ to skilled players. Rotation changed by adding in an auto attack (oh my!), but that’s it.

There is still ~zero~ downside to going full glass cannon.

More importantly, the Dev’s comment about “Just AoE” for their ‘hard counter’ is a joke: I should just walk around swinging my sword blindly to counter a stealth thief…. I mean, really? How ~LAME~ can you be?

Good job talking when you don’t have a clue how the game works. Stealthing does not remove combat… ever. You can agro a mob, use refugee and afk near the mob and you’ll never leave combat as long as the mob lives and you’re near.

Clearly you missed the point, so let me spell it out….

Yes, stealth and ~staying by the mob~ does nothing for getting out of combat.

Stealthing and port/blink/leap (whatever you feel like calling it) 1200 range, however, does. It gives you full health and full initiative while you walk back into combat.

More importantly, you can apply a condition or agro mobs and train them into your opponent and then do this… leaving your opponent in combat while thieves have the luxury of getting out of combat.

Maybe it’s you who doesn’t understand the nuances of the class.

[EDIT] I do not want a thief’s damaged nerfed… I never have, but stealth needs a big fat kick in the nutz.

First off, if the thief gets far enough to reset his health, YOURS will reset also. its a two way street. Also, being outside of combat does NOT affect initiative at all. You dont suddenly get full init for leaving combat, you dont even get a regen boost. Same way cooldowns dont recharge faster out of combat.

Cornholio.1567:

Theres always much hate on the Stealth class in any game.. and thats mostly cuz of the low risk, high gain aspect.. nothing gona change that.

What you meant to say is it’s because of the PERCEIVED low risk. Most of this perception of it being low risk are from players that have not played thieves themselves.

Viking Jorun.5413:

If you’re referring to the amount of damage 100b does, you have to realize how hard it is to actually land the burst, much harder than it is to land pistol whip. The next best burst on warrior is the axe’s eviscerate burst which deals 12k to the squishiest of targets. I’m not sure if you know but warriors are the most kitten right now in terms of sPvP, and against a skilled player there’s not much you can do but survive and hope a friend comes along to finish said player off for you. I play my thief in sPvP because of this and honstly I’m waiting on the warrior buff so that I can go back to playing the class I love in sPvP and tPvP. (Don’t get me wrong, I love thief in sPvP and won’t even trade my guardian for it, but warriors are far from OP, which is what you’re inferring.)

I’m not inferring that, the second part of my post was just to say that apparently we’re not supposed to deal scary amounts of damage because we’re Engineers, and not Warriors, they’ve done a kittenload of nerfs and tweaks because “We are super verastile” and thus, we have to excel at… well, nothing.

I know the current state of Warriors, one would be stupid to not realize that. I just said that if the damage of a build like 100nades was strapped on a Warrior the devs wouldn’t touch it because they’re prime damage dealers.

Yeah thief OP in stealth , the 2 skill from Ranger with Longbow hits u in Stealth , u can be immobilized in stealth , stun while in stealth.

Against D/D Ele u can do kitten because he can cc u like 10 times. Go in stealth and hit from behind yeah good job stun from lightning shield some kitten.

Jeez people just make a thief and learn it. It really isn’t that hard to counter its just that thief isn’t a straight forward engagement. Just like mesmer’s aren’t straight forward. Thats why they are 2 of the best skirmishers in the game I would put engis there now along with D/D ele’s. Those 4 classes aren’t straight forward fights, you have to ask, read, or play one to understand how and what they are doing if you don’t you can get wrecked. If you don’t want to roll one just ask someone that plays that class what to look for. Go to the mist learn it otherwise your at a disadvantage because of lack of knowledge.

Thieves are so easy to counter its not funny. Their ability to disengage at will is a design of the class that you have to deal with.

I did make a thief, why do people claim that the thief isn’t low risk?

If I can’t beat him I will stealth and run away, simple as that. How is that not low risk?

Edit: If you get perma-locked down by someone with tons of cc, find the dodge button and press it. Use Shadowstep. Dodge while inside Shadow Refuge. Nobody will ever catch you.

Overall this class is still highly susceptible to cc and bursts

oZii.2864:

Jeez people just make a thief and learn it. It really isn’t that hard to counter its just that thief isn’t a straight forward engagement. Just like mesmer’s aren’t straight forward. Thats why they are 2 of the best skirmishers in the game I would put engis there now along with D/D ele’s. Those 4 classes aren’t straight forward fights, you have to ask, read, or play one to understand how and what they are doing if you don’t you can get wrecked. If you don’t want to roll one just ask someone that plays that class what to look for. Go to the mist learn it otherwise your at a disadvantage because of lack of knowledge.

Thieves are so easy to counter its not funny. Their ability to disengage at will is a design of the class that you have to deal with.

Sintacs, you and I both know how easy it is for a thief to pull a mob into combat to use as your stealth trigger, only to bail out, jump to 1200 range to get out of combat for your reset, only to re-engage before your opponent is OOC.

This is compounded even moreso when thieves are grouping w/ say, a guardian or ele who can bunker down a bit.

People will not kill a good thief if a thief chooses not to die.

Yes, if the rotation is screwed up or missed, you ~can~ die. But good players don’t mess up very often. More importantly,Thief is the only class that can go full zerker w/o much downside.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want the damage nerfed. But stealth mechanics are just so grossly OP… from the zerg stealth bombing down to the 1v1’s… and the only reason they haven’t fixed it is because they can’t figure out what to do w/ the thief class, which relies soo heavily upon stealth:

They built the class around stealth rather then building a class that has access to stealth.

They can’t/won’t fix it until the figure out how to make the thief class better in the other aspects of it’s gameplay.

I love the class, I love people who play the class in a group setting, I just don’t like the Stealth Mechanics of this game… there is ~no~ downside to Stealth: Movement isn’t impaired while stealthed, there’s no chance to see / reveal based on proximity & the re-stealth timer is ridiculously low.

Every mechanic in every MMO, which made stealth ~not~ OP, was removed and no counter was added: there’s no ability that allows people to see stealth (boon/ability) or reveal stealth (on dmg) etc.

That’s the gripe.

Not the damage.

Sunflowers.1729:

I did make a thief, why do people claim that the thief isn’t low risk?

If I can’t beat him I will stealth and run away, simple as that. How is that not low risk?

Edit: If you get perma-locked down by someone with tons of cc, find the dodge button and press it. Use Shadowstep. Dodge while inside Shadow Refuge. Nobody will ever catch you.

ur not a thief very long or ur lying about even having one. in a 1 v 1 its kinda easy to get away. but guess what there are no 1 v 1 scenarios in this game. well maybe 2% of the time in wvw u might run into one. so its irrelevant. anyway ….no blocks….. no defense to take dmg….no dmg reduction….. we do have decent condi removal although thats not what kills us…its direct dmg….we are very easy to CC so in a 2 v 1 or more you are goign to get CCd its why i run 30 in acro for wvw. thief is the HIGHEST risk. if u look at which classes die most….thief is up there. unless we are talking about 1 v 1 scenarios. and as ive said those are irrelevant.

Amins.3710:

oZii.2864:

Jeez people just make a thief and learn it. It really isn’t that hard to counter its just that thief isn’t a straight forward engagement. Just like mesmer’s aren’t straight forward. Thats why they are 2 of the best skirmishers in the game I would put engis there now along with D/D ele’s. Those 4 classes aren’t straight forward fights, you have to ask, read, or play one to understand how and what they are doing if you don’t you can get wrecked. If you don’t want to roll one just ask someone that plays that class what to look for. Go to the mist learn it otherwise your at a disadvantage because of lack of knowledge.

Thieves are so easy to counter its not funny. Their ability to disengage at will is a design of the class that you have to deal with.

Sintacs, you and I both know how easy it is for a thief to pull a mob into combat to use as your stealth trigger, only to bail out, jump to 1200 range to get out of combat for your reset, only to re-engage before your opponent is OOC.

This is compounded even moreso when thieves are grouping w/ say, a guardian or ele who can bunker down a bit.

People will not kill a good thief if a thief chooses not to die.

Yes, if the rotation is screwed up or missed, you ~can~ die. But good players don’t mess up very often. More importantly,Thief is the only class that can go full zerker w/o much downside.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want the damage nerfed. But stealth mechanics are just so grossly OP… from the zerg stealth bombing down to the 1v1’s… and the only reason they haven’t fixed it is because they can’t figure out what to do w/ the thief class, which relies soo heavily upon stealth:

They built the class around stealth rather then building a class that has access to stealth.

They can’t/won’t fix it until the figure out how to make the thief class better in the other aspects of it’s gameplay.

I love the class, I love people who play the class in a group setting, I just don’t like the Stealth Mechanics of this game… there is ~no~ downside to Stealth: Movement isn’t impaired while stealthed, there’s no chance to see / reveal based on proximity & the re-stealth timer is ridiculously low.

Every mechanic in every MMO, which made stealth ~not~ OP, was removed and no counter was added: there’s no ability that allows people to see stealth (boon/ability) or reveal stealth (on dmg) etc.

That’s the gripe.

Not the damage.

again a non thief complaining…..id like to tell you that ATLEAST HALF of CnDs (cloack and dagger) which is incase you dont know HALF OF OUR INITIATIVE. u dodge 2 CnDS you win the fight….so u really cant say we dont mess up alot. and leaving a fight to reengage? ahaha have you seen our utilities? 60 sec recharges 45 on the low end. in that time a guard can recover the same if not more bc of heals. pffft. way off dude. who cares if we can stealth and get out. unless a person is sayin LETS TAKE AWAY STEALTh and give thiefs a 40% defense boost……get lost bc ur not even in the right ballpark. with our current lack of defense/blocks/dmg reduction and by lack of i mean 0….we are owed a good invis and even more actually. pooof.

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

I did make a thief, why do people claim that the thief isn’t low risk?

If I can’t beat him I will stealth and run away, simple as that. How is that not low risk?

Edit: If you get perma-locked down by someone with tons of cc, find the dodge button and press it. Use Shadowstep. Dodge while inside Shadow Refuge. Nobody will ever catch you.

ur not a thief very long or ur lying about even having one. in a 1 v 1 its kinda easy to get away. but guess what there are no 1 v 1 scenarios in this game. well maybe 2% of the time in wvw u might run into one. so its irrelevant. anyway ….no blocks….. no defense to take dmg….no dmg reduction….. we do have decent condi removal although thats not what kills us…its direct dmg….we are very easy to CC so in a 2 v 1 or more you are goign to get CCd its why i run 30 in acro for wvw. thief is the HIGHEST risk. if u look at which classes die most….thief is up there. unless we are talking about 1 v 1 scenarios. and as ive said those are irrelevant.

Are you even kidding me? No amount of blocks or armor is going to save you from a 50 person zerg. Nobody can cleanse 10 immobilizes off. What IS going to save you is being invisible so the zerg doesn’t try to chain-CC you. The best way to not die is for them to not be able to target you. To be fair, I run blinding powder and HiS, with D/P so stealth is very easily accessible at any time.

Oh and for the record here is my thief. Not sure how having a thief makes my argument better, but since you didn’t believe me…

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I consider things like “hundred nades bug” to be OP, where a single attack dos 26k damage in an AOE.

/sigh that photoshopped picture keeps on making the rounds doesn’t it?

There was actually a super awesome video of it in WvW, where I watched a single engi take out a group of guardians and warriors by jumping into the middle of them, lol. I looked for the video, but this is all I could find. I feel it’s good enough to represent it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXAliTpRwk

So why is this not ok but thief burst is?

Full disclosure: imo anything that can down someone in less than 3 seconds alone is bad regardless of which class does it except for pure glass vs pure glass. I’m not defending 100nades.

If a thief (or any class for that matter) builds so that they use CC in conjunction with their high dps build, it’s perfectly fine imo….I’ve seen tons of thieves try to use basilisk venom on me (I dual main a Guardian and Warrior) then try to burn me down, but using a quick condition removal trumps their otherwise insane burst since you can then turn around and blow them right back up.

Amins.3710:

I love the class, I love people who play the class in a group setting, I just don’t like the Stealth Mechanics of this game… there is ~no~ downside to Stealth: Movement isn’t impaired while stealthed, there’s no chance to see / reveal based on proximity & the re-stealth timer is ridiculously low.

Every mechanic in every MMO, which made stealth ~not~ OP, was removed and no counter was added: there’s no ability that allows people to see stealth (boon/ability) or reveal stealth (on dmg) etc.

That’s the gripe.

Not the damage.

The downside is lower survivability. Ever hit a thief who wasn’t stealthed before? Exactly. Although, being a guardian, your DPS is probably low anyways, soooo…

There are a lot of tricks for pulling people out of stealth, primarily consisting of pushes and pulls. Also, you can hit thieves in stealth easily, particularly when they have only just entered stealth. Most of our stealths don’t last very long either, like the BP+HS combo.

What’s even OP about stealth? You say at the end of your post that it isn’t the damage… So what? The running away? Because that’s what it sounds like from your other posts. Recall, then, that PvP/WvW isn’t based on killing enemies, it’s based on capping objectives. As soon as a thief flees, you’ve won. If they stay and fight, then stealth can’t be OP because you can damage them very easily even when they’re in stealth. Or, when they Reveal, just burst them into oblivion. Unfortunately, we don’t have perma-stealth, kiddo. Eventually we run out of initiative or stealth utilities, and then it’s just a flat-out skirmish until you can bring up stealth again.

HatasGunnaHate.3627:

Before you people cry about imbalance please post a video of you playing and your build so the community can determine whether you have a right to your claims. I’m 99% sure most of the cry babies either have sub par gear, builds, and movement (Back peddle, Clicking, Key turning, not dodge rolling). I strongly believe if these things apply to you then you have no right to come to the forums and whine. You are not playing the best you can be playing so of course good people are going to make short work of you “handicapped gamers”.

i agree it is very hard to determine winers from a legit complaint. i am a very very good dueler. however…that said…i cant get into zerg play on my thief. wish they would make blind like gw1 or give us some more armor idk.

On the subject of “zergs” and WvW, my main question is this: How are you supposed to predict anything in a setting like that, where even 2s of rendering lag makes it so that any given one of these thieves is invisible the majority of the time, even during their attacks? Culling has been “fixed”, so we are told, but issues like this still remain. I find the invisibility mechanic a bit annoying in light of this. Mostly I want to know if there will ever be a change in the future which reduces this problem in some way.

Thieves are the second worst pvp class in the game, just ahead of warriors. If you think they are somehow OP, low risk/high reward, I suggest you L2P. I know it sounds harsh, but someone had to say it, I’m tired of this nonsense since September 2012.

/thread?

@edit

About WvWvW balance, gtfo. It was never meant to be balanced in the first place.

Asomal.6453:

Thieves are the second worst pvp class in the game, just ahead of warriors. If you think they are somehow OP, low risk/high reward, I suggest you L2P. I know it sounds harsh, but someone had to say it, I’m tired of this nonsense since September 2012.

/thread?

@edit

About WvWvW balance, gtfo. It was never meant to be balanced in the first place.

I do agree that thieves suck in sPvP, but this isn’t because they are somehow underpowered, it’s just how thieves are designed.

Is it a wonder to anyone that a mobile class designed to engage and disengage at will, is bad at standing in small circles? Stealth doesn’t work in sPvP for capping. If you can’t beat someone in sPvP, you lose the point (in WvW, you just run away so nobody wins).

And as for your point about WvW balance, where do you think the 4s revealed debuff came from? Certainly not because thieves are amazing at sPvP. It’s a game mode that loads of people play, even more than sPvP. Why shouldn’t it be balanced?

Edit: When people say high reward low risk it usually refers to WvW. Believe it or not a lot of people like to play in there.

@SUNFLOWERS zergs score in wvw…thieves are bad in those too. unless u like shooting trick shots all day. but thats no fun. pickin off strays is fun but not helping much. venom share is helpful but not really doing much action (again with sb)