Guild Wars 2

Ah another one of those click-baity QQ thread. Do you know why a thief have so many mobility skill? Because they’re really squishy, i don’t know how long have you’ve been playing a thief, but i’m myself have playing “thief” class for 2 years and only “thief” you heard me right, i don’t play any other class. There plenty ways to counter a thief, you can do condi, it’ll do tons of kittens to thief since we’re lacking of condi cleanse, traps [yea, i’m looking at you DH] although it can be avoided by thief IF you’re playing it right, damage burst also can kill thief pretty fast, so far almost all things can kill a thief pretty easily, yea people still shout OP this and OP that.
Just a daily dose of salt from salty people i see.

TBTH arguing that “I’ve only ever played thief and I think it’s fine” is just as poor of an argument as someone saying they’ve never played thief and stating it’s overpowered.

Most people who’ve played other professions extensively recognize two things:

- Core thief is fair if not underpowered and very difficult to play/master.

- Daredevil trivializes most of the difficult aspects of the thief making it easier to play successfully with.

[The Daredevil] is not OP in the current game-state, but it’s definitely not fair relative to core GW2, like every other elite spec.

Thing with the Assassin/Thief class in general is that there is a high variance when it comes to winning or losing. It’s more of a gamble than with Warrior, where you kill with steady damage but more slowly. You also receive damage more slowly. Thief is the student that gets very low marks in a few classes and very high marks in another few classes. Tankier classes are the students that get average marks in all classes. The overall average is the same, but Thief can shine with the few top marks, and that sticks. If you are a heroe in a special thing, people tend to ignore the areas where you suck.

Thief does burst damage and mobility in exchange for low defense, that’s it, but people remember the glory moments more than the moments where the thief got one shot. And the person who comes to the forum because he got owned by a thief doesn’t know how often that thief gets owned by others.

Faaris.8013:

Thief does burst damage and mobility in exchange for low defense, that’s it, but people remember the glory moments more than the moments where the thief got one shot. And the person who comes to the forum because he got owned by a thief doesn’t know how often that thief gets owned by others.

I would not call it low defense. It depends on how you define defense. If disengage potencial couts as defense, then the thief has the highest defense in the game.

But it’s true. I fought a thief yesterday who heavily relied on Bandit’s Defense. He engaged every 12 seconds, blocked my shroud burst, dealt some damage, disengaged and repeated that procedure. It was super easy to peel me to death for him.

Then I swapped to NCSY! and one-shotted him.

Faaris.8013:

Thief does burst damage and mobility in exchange for low defense, that’s it, but people remember the glory moments more than the moments where the thief got one shot. And the person who comes to the forum because he got owned by a thief doesn’t know how often that thief gets owned by others.

You guys need to get over this notion of DDs having low defense. First, they have a block on a very short CD if they want to take it. But even if they don’t want to take that utility, they have a stupidly high amount of dodges, as well as the best disengage potential in the game. Just because its not blocks and invulnerabilities doesn’t mean this isn’t a type of defense. And your specific type of defense (that being evades and the ability to GTFO almost at will) also makes you immune to unblockable attacks, something that classes who rely on blocks don’t have the luxury of.

DDs have a high amount of defense. It doesn’t matter that its tied up in evading attacks. Is it more active than blocks? Yes, but that doesn’t mean your defense doesn’t exist.

Exchange my use of “defense” with “tanking ability” then. What I meant to say was that Thief is more fragile than other classes if you don’t take active player action into account. That’s what makes it interesting to play for me, it keeps me on my feet when playing my Thief. The mobility can only be used when the player pays attention and has good reflexes, it’s not a given like Warrior blocks or high defense stat that mitigates damage per se. If you don’t pay attention as Warrior for a moment, no big deal. If you do that as Thief, you are done. The defensive capabilities Thief can have are not innate, they heavily depend on the player. And humans make mistakes.

I’m not gonna argue that warriors defenses require thought, or that they aren’t braindead, because that would be incorrect. Yes, thieves have the most active defense in the game, but it is there. And ideally other classes would get their passive kitten scaled way back, but that isn’t going to happen unfortunately.

Best way to deal with damage is to completely avoid it.

Talking meta here, Out side of signet of agilty. We pretty have only 1 extra dodge. 1 from heal if we take it but that can be interuptd, I still prefer withdraw. 2nd pretty sure the meta scrapper had a trait that regens endurance faster anyway, warrior with out there passive defences can still have 2 blocks and gs #3 has which id enough in fight defence, mesmer has what, sword #2, f4 and f5, pretty sure some take the signet that rechares shatters too, rev has a lot of defence too (poor healing) so yeah. In a 1v1 situation it can be a very up hI’ll fight but then add more and more people and the thief gradually becomes usless where as every other class’s defences/passives still work with ease

I was gonna pretend this forum doesn’t exist because of the amount of salt in it… but I couldn’t resist the urge.

- You cried about our stealth attacks, so the devs implemented a kitten 1 sec ICD if we miss rendering any x/D build useless in pvp.
- You cried about our “infinite” dodges, so the devs nerfed our signet of agility to only return 1 and a half dodges.

Thief cannot 1v1 any other class in the game – that’s fact, you can’t deny it, show me a video of 2 equally skilled players, one being a thief and another being whatever the kitten you want it and show me the thief winning a 1v1. 9 times out of 10 the thief was better than the opponent.

Idk where this notion of “no CD instant port no cast time ability” came from. The only “instant port” abilities we have with no cast times is Sword/x “2”, Steal and shadowstep. Steal and shadow step both have 20s+ CD and sword 2 is a port to an enemy so you can’t really use it in a sticky situation. If you’re talking about shortbow 5 then that has a cast animation and isn’t an instant port. Plus you can’t use it with hard cc.

Thieves weren’t meant to 1v1, that’s why we have a boat load of escapes. Because it’s our only form of defense. I literally can’t play power D/D anymore because to land a CnD you need to make sure the enemy doesn’t have a passive aegis or shield up, then you have to make sure to land the backstab otherwise you have to wait 1 second doing kitten all because of the ICD. I can’t play Sword/Dagger because of the same thing and more.

Heck you can’t play thief in teamfights with staff well because of the aoe damage. What nerf do you want to thieves huh? Because at this rate I wouldn’t be surprised to see you nerf thief into the ground just for your own satisfation.

I will say to you what I say to anyone who complains about thief being “OP” – L2P.

Wow…can’t tell if OP is troll or just salty af that he got beat by a teef.

Teef def has its counters (CC/condis/channeled ranged attacks) for starters. Forcing a reveal (which OP never stated they tried to do so this heavily sounds like a l2p issue) can hurt a teef as well. AoE is also a pain for teefs to deal with.

As for the whole “name one class that can catch a teef” suggestion:

Some berserkers (GS/Sw + Sh), Mes/chronos, Meditation or trapper/medi guards (esp with GS/S +x), Staff Revs with Shiro ive seen catch up with teefs.

Those who agree that they are “unbalanced” or “OP”, classes have to l2p against berserkers (which as a majority of ppl would state are the real OP and noob friendly class) as well as l2p against other builds so this is no different. Yes I play teef atm, but I have also mained Druid (which can catch a DD btw with staff or GS + LB alone), condi engi (no teef survived my engi), hammer scrapper, and warrior (before berserker was even a thought). Teef only started with me prob 2 months (ish) ago.

If teef/DD OP – No
Is teef/DD Balanced – not 100% but closer to it than a lot of other classes

TL:DR – This really is a l2p issue despite how you want to look at it / argue it. If you need help fighting them, ill be more than happy to duel for practice (esp if you are a berserker or DH lol)

I catch thieves on my reaper.

Unless they go for a dedicated all-out sprint the hell away from me, the mobility, while there, isn’t usually any problem on most professions if played well.

DeceiverX.8361:

I catch thieves on my reaper.

Unless they go for a dedicated all-out sprint the hell away from me, the mobility, while there, isn’t usually any problem on most professions if played well.

Well a lot of people just do not get that a bunch of that vaunted mobility is tied to maintaining a pool of INI of some type and especially if it a thief taking bound over UC.

If they have blown all that INI spamming some other skill (headshot , vault DB and the like) then what is left is either a utility or that same UC. This to me demonstrates that the ability to spam a given skill not really an issue as a thief will pay for that against a competent player.

I saw a bound thief last night, I knew his game was to bound 3 times over BP. So I kited back a bit and waited for the red smoke feild circle to stack more stealth and dropped scrapper hammer #5 om it. That pretty much stopped him in his tracks because he has taken around 4k dmg while probably low on inarive and endurance and now is on defensive mode. It is that simple and predictable a thief can be.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I saw a bound thief last night, I knew his game was to bound 3 times over BP. So I kited back a bit and waited for the red smoke feild circle to stack more stealth and dropped scrapper hammer #5 om it. That pretty much stopped him in his tracks because he has taken around 4k dmg while probably low on inarive and endurance and now is on defensive mode. It is that simple and predictable a thief can be.

This right here is why im glad I dont run bound lol

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I saw a bound thief last night, I knew his game was to bound 3 times over BP. So I kited back a bit and waited for the red smoke feild circle to stack more stealth and dropped scrapper hammer #5 om it. That pretty much stopped him in his tracks because he has taken around 4k dmg while probably low on inarive and endurance and now is on defensive mode. It is that simple and predictable a thief can be.

This right here is why im glad I dont run bound lol

I alternate between running bound and dash but when I do run bound I don’t use all my dodges at once… seems stupid to do… I always have one dodge available incase I need to bolt, plus signet of agility.

Thats the difference between someone knowing a thief and someone not, but still claims they are op. And, do you really want to use signet of agilty right at the start of the fight?

In most games the rogue/assassin/thief type class is always complained about due to it being annoying. People think this translates into OP. I mean, anything I can’t always hit must be OP right? I can hit other classes but not this one, so it must be OP.

The tradeoff is that thieves are squishy. It’s a class that I like fighting against because I am rewarded for playing smart against them. A nice stun in between death blossoms usually does the trick. But people would rather complain about it being OP than learn to play against active defense.

1. Bait dodges. This can be done with most skills by cancelling them and making them waste a dodge. You can also cancel a minor skill then cut the evade with another skill, such as baiting with a skull crack, cancelling it, then headbutt or shieldbash to cut their evade.
2. Wait out their dodges. Bad thieves will spam their dodges, not use them on reaction. The thing to do here is to just not attack them and let them waste their dodges. If you do attack, make it an attack that won’t be punishing for you if you waste it, like an auto.
3. Be patient. People usually tilt when fighting thieves, making it more difficult.

I’ve yet to see a legitimate, logical argument for thief being op. Not denying they’re strong, but not op. And I find it funny that one of the only classes that heavily utilizes active defense in this game is one people say is OP, when there are classes that can facetank while dealing heavy damage. (No, thief can’t do damage while dodging excluding pistol whip. Pretty much every evade skill has a counter.)

There no denying Bound, UC and Impaling good skills and there a reason for a thief to take any one of them. That said it also true that they are very readable when compared to the regular dodge in that once a person can read the animation and get that timing right , the thief can be taken advantage of. Of the three it my experience that the Bound is the easiest to “read” and UC the hardest. Spamming it just makes it easier for an enemy to anticipate and counter.

This they are OP because of the dodge spam is simply nonsense. If a skill OP then it would not matter the quality of the player the skill used against as it would perform equally as well. The fact that people above that understand thief have a much less difficult time against them is really all the evidence one needs when it comes to refuting this “They are OP and uncounterable” meme.

I know for a fact that when on my thief if I use spam tactics against two different players same profession , with one of them knowing how to counter the dodges and spams, that person in the know will tend to win unless I change up tactics.

What people fail to realize is that you do NOT have to kill someone to take them out of the fight; if a thief disengages from you, they’re no longer in the fight and you’ve effectively done the same thing as killing them in regards to team fights and capture points. If you survive a thief’s INI burst they’re going to disengage and trololol around while they wait for it to regen – at that point they are contributing a whopping zero to their team.

Thieves even more stupidly OP after the recent needs to other classes sustain. That and combined with sigil of absorption it’s gg.

Such a broken class.

Blue.1207:

Thieves even more stupidly OP after the recent needs to other classes sustain. That and combined with sigil of absorption it’s gg.

Such a broken class.

Thief sustain and damage literally got nerfed tho

reading is a great skill

Blue.1207:

alchemyst.2165:

Blue.1207:

Thieves even more stupidly OP after the recent needs to other classes sustain. That and combined with sigil of absorption it’s gg.

Such a broken class.

Thief sustain and damage literally got nerfed tho

reading is a great skill

Yeah maybe you should do it some time. Thief still broken as hell. Other classes got sustain removed, thief even more so a dodge spamming – press 1 – class.

Berserker: press 0 then f1 = win (less keystrokes than spamming dodge and pressing 1 a few times)

Druid: LB knockback, rapidfire (both from 1500 range) and let pet do most of the work

Necro: Chill, Chill, Chill = 25 stacks of bleed = win

Chrono (condi): Scepter 3 (beam attack), clone clone (by dodging), shatter and walk away.

Engi (P/P): 4/3/2/1/1/1 and walk away

DH: Drop traps, F1/F1 and done OR judge intervention, torch 4/4 and aoe burn field = win

Based on your logic, every class is OP because on 1 certain build or 1 certain sigil (I could go on but my point is obvious). Not everyone plays these builds (well…minus berserker and reapers).

The only good things they got was possible more unload assuming all shots hit, also meaning initiative will run out faster therefore leaving the teef out to dry (means reflects are more deadly to them now so they will die faster…yeah…OP) and sb poison field can stun um…don’t stand in it? Again, yeah OP only if you are resing or afk.

This doesn’t constitute was “OP” by actual means. If something has any counters (whether soft or hard) then its not OP. There’s a difference between OP and unbalanced.

look at all these people talking about random crap on how to beat thief

• IT DOES NOT MATTER , THIEF CAN JUST ZERG YOUR TEAMMATES AND THEN ZERG YOU AND THERE’S NO COUNTER TO THAT **

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CAN BEAT/“OUTPLAY” thief 1v1 because the GAME IS NOT ONE VERSUS ONE and its not about killing either

its about capping points and +1ing when the skill levels get higher

the last patch buffed thieves even more, i just had a game with 5 thieves in ranked because why the kitten not?

i suppose the fact that there were no 10 people signing for ranked arena yday is a direct consequence to how overpowered and broken this class is

incisorr.9502:

look at all these people talking about random crap on how to beat thief

• IT DOES NOT MATTER , THIEF CAN JUST ZERG YOUR TEAMMATES AND THEN ZERG YOU AND THERE’S NO COUNTER TO THAT **

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CAN BEAT/“OUTPLAY” thief 1v1 because the GAME IS NOT ONE VERSUS ONE and its not about killing either

its about capping points and +1ing when the skill levels get higher

the last patch buffed thieves even more, i just had a game with 5 thieves in ranked because why the kitten not?

i suppose the fact that there were no 10 people signing for ranked arena yday is a direct consequence to how overpowered and broken this class is

One no one queues for ranked arena because the seasons are over, look at the top players and everyone else they play in unranked during off season, 2) Thief daily was yesterday, 3) lots of players are testing out all classes after the patch, in unranked I found rarely was there even 2+ Thieves in any given match. But keep up the witch hunt since Thieves got nerfed this patch like everyone else and Unerused and underperforming weapons and skills got buffed, the salt it tastes so good bahahaha.

And again teams only want 1 Thief per team because more than one is extremely easy to counter with minimal effort

Edit and learn the definition of a Zerg in regards to this game, Zerg is when a large group pressures a point at once Thieves are solo individuals that at best and are designed as a +1 class that’s not zerging.

And if Thief was/is so uncounterable so the last time the team that won a tournament had a thief or that thief was Meta in competitive play in gw2

Sure would love to trade some of my incredibly active defense (dodging, which requires timing and critical thinking), for some of the incredibly inactive defense (blocks, which require much, much less timing and critical thinking).

Oh, actually, no. I don’t. Because I play Thief when I want to play as my profession, not have my profession play for me…

incisorr.9502:

look at all these people talking about random crap on how to beat thief

• IT DOES NOT MATTER , THIEF CAN JUST ZERG YOUR TEAMMATES AND THEN ZERG YOU AND THERE’S NO COUNTER TO THAT **

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU CAN BEAT/“OUTPLAY” thief 1v1 because the GAME IS NOT ONE VERSUS ONE and its not about killing either

its about capping points and +1ing when the skill levels get higher

the last patch buffed thieves even more, i just had a game with 5 thieves in ranked because why the kitten not?

i suppose the fact that there were no 10 people signing for ranked arena yday is a direct consequence to how overpowered and broken this class is

There are so many people playing thief because during the season they can’t do it (booohoo 2 thieves on team? team rages and afk’s).
It was always like this between seasons, i am surprised you didn’t notice it yet.
It is very possible that at your MMR so many thieves queued for the ranked, doesn’t mean that majority that queue are thieves…..

I would also like to point out that thief got nerfed this patch, at least the meta builds in pvp…. you should probably read patch notes.

On side note, i have won match yesterday with 3 thieves on my team and 2 on enemies. Could it be that you were there lol? Sole reason why that team lost is because they were raging at each 24/7 and spent more time spamming map chat than fighting.

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Svarty.8019:

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Yet all but 4 classes has counterplay to Stealth, funny how that works

Sly.9518:

Svarty.8019:

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Yet all but 4 classes has counterplay to Stealth, funny how that works

Even funnier how it doesn’t.

Svarty.8019:

Sly.9518:

Svarty.8019:

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Yet all but 4 classes has counterplay to Stealth, funny how that works

Even funnier how it doesn’t.

It does if the user of the Reveal isn’t a potato,

Look at WvW: Thief got ALL the boosts, but the nerfs were PvP only. Its even worse here. Thanks for screwing up again.

Aury.1367:

Look at WvW: Thief got ALL the boosts, but the nerfs were PvP only. Its even worse here. Thanks for screwing up again.

You mean the same with all the buffs and Nerfs this patch?

Aury.1367:

Look at WvW: Thief got ALL the boosts, but the nerfs were PvP only. Its even worse here. Thanks for screwing up again.

Karl McLain strikes again! Muahahaha!

Sly.9518:

Aury.1367:

Look at WvW: Thief got ALL the boosts, but the nerfs were PvP only. Its even worse here. Thanks for screwing up again.

You mean the same with all the buffs and Nerfs this patch?

Not the case for warrior. The most significant nerfs were universal. A couple of others were pvp only

Svarty.8019:

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Does thief have invuls, huge HP sponge, high access to blocks and multiple heals, stab? No. All they have is dodges and stealth, why wouldn’t they rely on it…. /facepalm

There is plenty counters to stealth in game, i hear stopping mindlessly spamming spells helps.

Cynz.9437:

Does thief have invuls, huge HP sponge, high access to blocks and multiple heals, stab? No. All they have is [the ability to be invulnerable three times on tiny cooldown] [total invisibility]

When I change it to what it means it suddenly doesn’t seem so weak, does it?

You also missed out the ability to be half way across the map in the blink of an eye and massive burst with no cooldowns.

Not OP at all… #BlameMcLain

Svarty.8019:

I believe that Stealth is a huge issue for video games. It causes more aggravation, frustration and disappointment than any other power – in ALL games, and understandably so.

It is very rare to find a thief so skilled as to shun Stealth entirely. I have heard tell of such amazing players, but that when they were threatened by a large group of players, they resorted to Stealth to escape. Which illustrates how ridiculously powerful Stealth is.

Counterplay is vital to making games fun. Stealth takes away counterplay, therefore Stealth is the opposite of fun.

Budding games developers take note.

Must be why everyone is playing Shadow Arts. Oh wait, nobody is actually playing it. Cause it doesn’t really bring much value for D/P meta thief. Meta thief is actually better with less stealth. Does that mean people intentionally build to be more counterable since? Cause apparently, more stealth = uncounterable = free wins.
Pls.

Svarty.8019:

Cynz.9437:

Does thief have invuls, huge HP sponge, high access to blocks and multiple heals, stab? No. All they have is [the ability to be invulnerable three times on tiny cooldown] [total invisibility]

When I change it to what it means it suddenly doesn’t seem so weak, does it?

You also missed out the ability to be half way across the map in the blink of an eye and massive burst with no cooldowns.

Not OP at all… #BlameMcLain

No Cooldowns HAHAHAHA, you are cute. As mentioned, a thief only has stealth and dodging as their defense against everything (also as mentioned, no stab/immob/little evades/little passives/small condi clears…etc)

Things that counter Thief:

Revealed (DH, Scrapper/Engi, Rev/Herald, Druid/Ranger)
Moderate Condi Pressure (All classes)
AoE (Bereserkers/Wars, Tempests/Eles, Reapers/Necros)
CC’s Soft and Hard due to lack of stab and reliance on mobility (All Classes)
Range attacks (pewpew Druid/Ranger, DH LB)

Yeah, thieves are OP because they only have stealth and a bit better mobility than all but 2 classes (Nike Warriors and Mesmers can catch a teef). Most of these weaknesses mentioned are in most builds and if not, then the problem is the QQing player, not the thief.

If one can move halfway across in the “blink of an eye” they either they are hacking, someone is lagging, or you are exaggerating (bet I can guess which is more possible).

Even before I started playign thief about 2-3 months(ish) ago I had very little issues with them on my Engi/crapper, Warrior/Berserker, Guard/DH and Ranger/Druid. Either Adapt when you know you are going to face one (like most good players do) or l2p with your current build. Simple as that

/bow

EremiteAngel.9765:

As a Reaper main, I feel for the OP as good thieves can sometimes feel almost like a hard-counter similar to a long-range bow druid.

perhaps a well-played thieve really is going to be a hardcounter to all reaper builds but one can always learn how to lessen the threat.

Even Reapers can increase their chances to kill good thieves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVUwEhj6kcU

Reapers have the tools, however its their mobility (or lack thereof) that helps teefs have a chance. If you had better mobility then teefs wouldn’t be much of an issue.

They have even more tools to beat thieves and high-mobility classes in general when running GS.

No lie, Eremite, in a lot of those fights, you could have outright ended them with a single well-timed GD. Staff did almost nothing for you a majority of the time.

DeceiverX.8361:

They have even more tools to beat thieves and high-mobility classes in general when running GS.

No lie, Eremite, in a lot of those fights, you could have outright ended them with a single well-timed GD. Staff did almost nothing for you a majority of the time.

tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.

Has anyone asked this guy to record his own OP Thief gameplay and post it here as proof yet? Since its so easy and un-counterable, and because all up-to-date graphics card software comes with native video capture, this should be an easy task.

I’ll wait.

Fought the rank 116 engineer from last pvp season (NA) this weekend. Power rifle engi with perma 25 stacks of might. Also had good quickness uptime. He was going 3v1 and killing everyone in a few hits.

Just thought I’d add engineer to the list of potential ranged damage counters to thief.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeceiverX.8361:

They have even more tools to beat thieves and high-mobility classes in general when running GS.

No lie, Eremite, in a lot of those fights, you could have outright ended them with a single well-timed GD. Staff did almost nothing for you a majority of the time.

tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.

GS is valuable for its control, not its damage.

A necro playing GS as a primary damage weapon will suck. You need to play it like interrupt mesmer and utilize shroud and a ranged weapon (Axe) to make it potent. My point wasn’t that GS was better than Axe, but that GS was better than staff in a kit with an Axe.

If you play it as a disruption and debuff weapon it is literally the best PvP weapon available on the necromancer. So many people think GD spam or of it as some kind of crazy damaging weapon. Its AA 1 and 2 have value and have been sped up massively, too.

It’s also why I said staff wasn’t worthwhile; I’ve been running A/D + GS for a very long time and of all professions, thieves are the easiest to kill by a country mile due to how GS can shut them down so well. Staff really poses itself to be disadvantaged against mobile foes, which most professions, especially roaming ones these days, are.

Yes, the thief if played flawlessly will win and out-reset, but that’s just what the profession does. Perfect power reaper play can apply similar pressure and make similar gains on a thief resetting when it comes to WvW.

Lenaro.5924:

saerni.2584:

There’s no question thief has high mobility but that doesn’t make the class OP.

And Crinn there is no question badly played is badly played. But good thieves know the limits of what a thief can do and learning those limits is the first step to beating thieves.

Most thieves aren’t good enough that they are “unkillable.” If any player can’t beat a class no matter what then they need to learn how that class ticks.

You would be correct if the primary focus of PvP weren’t mobility. The fact that Thief reigns supreme in mobility is a problem when the meta of a point capture focuses heavily on roaming and decapping.

Thieves are, more or less, unkillable in skilled hands. If you somehow manage to land CC amidst their flurry of iframes, they will stunbreak out, and if they’re clearly outmatched they can simply run.

What, specifically, would you suggest is the counter to this playstyle?

Edit: To be clear, I’m not suggesting that Thieves are statistically OP. Or even that they’re OP in a match breaking way. What I’m suggesting is that Thieves so clearly embody an essential role in the meta and there’s no counter to that role and no profession which performs it better.

to be honest, a lot of the fights i’ve lost as a thief are to players who haven’t panicked and i expected them to. be that person i guess? i mean you’d be surprised how much fear affects your abilities in this game, not to say that you’re someone that panics, though.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.

Staff+GS are the weapons to go against a thief. On reaper you want to avoid being jumped at over and over again and peeled to death.

Put a staff mark (4 (damage) or 5 (fear)) at your feet and autoattack with staff (you won’t hit him due to the slow projectile, but he can’t shadowshot you without being punished hard and you outrange and outdamage his shortbow, so it is at least a stall situation). When he comes close to dodge through your mark shroudburst him. He will disengage and you put another mark at you feet. When you run out of marks, swap to GS and use nightfall.

In a marauder reaper vs. marauder thief matchup the necro staff auto deals 2 – 3k damage and staff4 about 4k. Staff 3 and 5 are nice CC. A chilling nova / chill of death / air sigil proc on a staff attack hurts a thief. With all these procs even a simple staff auto can cost him 1/3 of his HP.

GS + staff due to its lack of constant pressure is the worst weapon combo you can run on power reaper for any matchup except thief, since this class is ulta squishy and the need of denial areas to limit its mobility.

Side note: P/P thieves are a different story! Axe/focus and an aggressive playstyle is the way to go here.

KrHome.1920:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.

Staff+GS are the weapons to go against a thief. On reaper you want to avoid being jumped at over and over again and peeled to death.

Put a staff mark (4 (damage) or 5 (fear)) at your feet and autoattack with staff (you won’t hit him due to the slow projectile, but he can’t shadowshot you without being punished hard and you outrange and outdamage his shortbow, so it is at least a stall situation). When he comes close to dodge through your mark shroudburst him. He will disengage and you put another mark at you feet. When you run out of marks, swap to GS and use nightfall.

In a marauder reaper vs. marauder thief matchup the necro staff auto deals 2 – 3k damage and staff4 about 4k. Staff 3 and 5 are nice CC. A chilling nova / chill of death / air sigil proc on a staff attack hurts a thief. With all these procs even a simple staff auto can cost him 1/3 of his HP.

GS + staff due to its lack of constant pressure is the worst weapon combo you can run on power reaper for any matchup except thief, since this class is ulta squishy and the need of denial areas to limit its mobility.

Side note: P/P thieves are a different story! Axe/focus and an aggressive playstyle is the way to go here.

P/D thieves who utilize headshots are also, unfortunately for reapers, a whole different story

EremiteAngel.9765:

KrHome.1920:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.

Staff+GS are the weapons to go against a thief. On reaper you want to avoid being jumped at over and over again and peeled to death.

Put a staff mark (4 (damage) or 5 (fear)) at your feet and autoattack with staff (you won’t hit him due to the slow projectile, but he can’t shadowshot you without being punished hard and you outrange and outdamage his shortbow, so it is at least a stall situation). When he comes close to dodge through your mark shroudburst him. He will disengage and you put another mark at you feet. When you run out of marks, swap to GS and use nightfall.

In a marauder reaper vs. marauder thief matchup the necro staff auto deals 2 – 3k damage and staff4 about 4k. Staff 3 and 5 are nice CC. A chilling nova / chill of death / air sigil proc on a staff attack hurts a thief. With all these procs even a simple staff auto can cost him 1/3 of his HP.

GS + staff due to its lack of constant pressure is the worst weapon combo you can run on power reaper for any matchup except thief, since this class is ulta squishy and the need of denial areas to limit its mobility.

Side note: P/P thieves are a different story! Axe/focus and an aggressive playstyle is the way to go here.

P/D thieves who utilize headshots are also, unfortunately for reapers, a whole different story

If a P/D Thief is using Headshots I would be submitting hacking reports to the Devs…..

New (fake) specialization leaks: thieves gain f2 ambidextrous skill, 9 sec cd, that allow them to swap weapon’s moveset MH>OH OH>MH.
This skill will active on swap sigils and talent.

New weapon: off hand sword!