Guild Wars 2

I have played thief since BWE 2. I loved the profession back then and I still love it, but it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. Spamming 3 on their short bows while dodging and auto attacking. Every now and again they move in for a nuke but that’s it.

Would it be too much to ask for some more nerfs on the short bow rather than more nerfs on the vigor uptime. The short bow is the real evil here.

What do you guys think? Should the short bow be nerfed more?

Nope. Thief is fine as is.

Leave the Thief alone and practice to counter instead. All classes/builds have classes/builds they struggle more against than others…People struggle against a particular build or class then go and call for a nerf…

There are plenty of counters to the SB evade spammers even as a thief playing against it…and a lot of other things that should be looked at in terms of balance before this…

If i recall shortbow was NEVER nerfed so i dont know how we would nerf it “more”. Second why should it be nerfed? Cause some people abuse its evade? Other class’s can maintain 100% vigor without trying and dodge to there happiest desires and its a issue that was can spam a backward evade 3 maybe 4 times (at what point were out of ini and sitting ducks) So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

There is no longer heartseeker on auto attack for instance.

Now shortbow 3 is OP ? What else are you people gonna come up with ?

Splatter Paw.7238:

If i recall shortbow was NEVER nerfed so i dont know how we would nerf it “more”. Second why should it be nerfed? Cause some people abuse its evade? Other class’s can maintain 100% vigor without trying and dodge to there happiest desires and its a issue that was can spam a backward evade 3 maybe 4 times (at what point were out of ini and sitting ducks) So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

I would consider dropping the SB range from 1200 to 900 a nerf.

Unless it was changed back, shortbow #1 was also nerfed to no longer track targets, making it super easy to dodge simply by strafing left/right.

Niels, I’ve added your nerf request to the Nerf Wish List. Mainly to keep a list of all the requested nerfs in one place for the devs ease and to keep the forums a bit cleaner from all the requests. Just thought ya should know.

(They really need to sticky that thread…)

Karolis.4261:

Now shortbow 3 is OP ? What else are you people gonna come up with ?

Take a look at the nerf wish list, specifically where I took (ctrl+f “Originally by”) ideas from other people’s threads. One interesting one was Choking Gas… (1st page on the list)

Splatter Paw.7238:

…
So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

Nope, apparently not enough. Besides this class is still in the game and is able to do basic functions like moving around and jumping…

Tetsuyja.7805:

No. Why? The simple reason: While Dodging, u can’t deal dmg. Let them dodge endlessly. Bow #3 also do not much dmg. SB is balanced and ok.

So, to counter that… While we’re stealthed we can’t do damage either (though, we heal, and conditions still tick)… and as we all know stealth is OP. Both stealth and dodge can be used defensively to avoid attacks, and offensively to position yourself for an attack… difference is one is visible (and doesn’t heal, conditions still tick) and one is invisible… :| So yeah dodging alot is OP. We can almost say we permadodge as thieves.
NERF THIEF"S DODGE!

As Kharr mentioned i think it’s still not tracking targets.

The SB #4 range nerf was a sad story, it’s not like shadowstepping anymore.. more like jumping need to use it 2-3 times to get some distance, our shortbow range is still limited so we can’t do more damage.

There’s plenty of room for nerfing Thieves.

• As for the shortbow, I agree that it needs more nerf. For instance, the Skill #3 should either evade or cripple, but not both.

• Also the Skill #5 should require a target since what’s the point of the blind effect if Thieves use it to run away.

• And Skill #2 should also require a target and explodes on impact knocking every one down if they get it.

• The cost on each skill should be a flat 5 initiatives because they are all equally useful.

• Rooting is also necessary after using the Skill #3 just to be consistent with other #3 skills in other weapon set.

And I’m just getting warmed up.

• Travel time of the projectile needs to be slower. The same speed with the Guardian’s Scepter’s #1 skill.

• Choking gas should deal damage so that the Thief will be revealed when used from stealth.

• Detonate Cluster should be automatic. It should detonate on impact as mentioned above or it detonates after traveling after a set time. Three seconds (3s) travel time would be enough.

If these are not enough, there’s always the pre-cast and after-cast delay that we can add to further nerf this weapon’s skills.

No. Shortbow 3 is one of the only tools we have when we get immobed (for those of us who don’t run with withdraw). Other classes get blocks, we have to use some type of evade. We can port, but that will only do so much when you have a 4 to 5 second immob on you. We can use shadowstep, but it has a 50 second cooldown and we would be burning it on something that isn’t a stun.

Yea sure nerf #3 shortbow thief is too OP.

hahahaha this forum is getting worst every day hahahaha.

Nerd short bow was the last thing i thought i was going to read. . . whats next? . . .

NERF TRAPS!!

Nerf thieves asking for Nerfs imo. I’m assuming this is sPvP related. I didn’t know people still played sPvP.

Thieves shouldn’t have dodge because they have stealth. And health. They shouldn’t have health.

ppl played d/p, it got nerfed
ppl played s/d, it got nerfed
ppl play sb due to lack of builds, it would be next on the nerf list lol?

My apologies, I remember the days of 1200 range fondly…… good days. As mentioned above though we kinda just keep getting forced into a weapon set and it’s nerfed over and over. If you drop the evade from #3 it’s just a super pricy cripple on a set with no defense other than shadow shotting away.

SoLeciTO.3490:

hahahaha this forum is getting worst every day hahahaha.

Nerd short bow was the last thing i thought i was going to read. . . whats next? . . .

NERF TRAPS!!

Considering there was already a thread about nerfing devourer venom, the others can’t be too far behind. Then traps are really all that’s left.

Nice troll attempt OP, cute!

It’s simple, save your attacks for when the initiative ends.

Careful guys. Soon our forum posting privileges will be nerfed so they can QQ in peace.

We’ll need those privileges to complain to no avail in the near future. Thief perm stealth and vigor got nerfed last patch, so warriors will most likely have access to perm stealth and vigor next patch.

Perma stealth is still easily done. Nerf, lol

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If these are not enough, there’s always the pre-cast and after-cast delay that we can add to further nerf this weapon’s skills.

Using a shortbow should knock a thief down every shot. Using pistols should too, we’re squishy thieves after all, no meat or mass.

Impact.2780:

Careful guys. Soon our forum posting privileges will be nerfed so they can QQ in peace.

I’m posting from stealth.

so much hate o.o
All I am saying is that skill 3 is really lame. Cutting on the evade and getting something else like traveling backwards way faster without the evade and with a daze instead of cripple. Maybe add a boonsteal on interrupt.
People are really easy to jump the bandwagon about how bad thieves have been nerfed already so all we should see is buffs. I am just suggesting a change that may or may not turn out to be a nerf.

Niels.5396:

so much hate o.o
…
People are really easy to jump the bandwagon about how bad thieves have been nerfed already so all we should see is buffs. I am just suggesting a change that may or may not turn out to be a nerf.

We, as a class, don’t exactly have a good record of getting buffs (or buffs that outweigh the nerf alongside it)…
We also have people on nearly daily basis complaining and possibly requesting nerfs…
There was but one person, in several months, that asked for a fix (a fix that wouldn’t be a nerf or a buff, but an actual fix)…
Yeah, you’re going to get hate when you ask for a nerf or a change that looks like a nerf…

frans.8092:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If these are not enough, there’s always the pre-cast and after-cast delay that we can add to further nerf this weapon’s skills.

Using a shortbow should knock a thief down every shot. Using pistols should too, we’re squishy thieves after all, no meat or mass.

Ah yes, launching us backwards for every shot. That’s the way to do it.

sb 3 is op lol.
every one just wants the thief to hold still so they can smash it in 2 hits
lol lets just amputate the thief’s legs and leave them in a wheel chair lol
sb 3 op lol give me a break u r going to make me laugh my self to death

you are right I agree nerf my short bow all u want, but then let my steal insta kill anyone

OK nerf shortbow lol … whatever, i dont even use it anywhere aside from pve

where is this coming from all the sudden. it feels like people just wanna QQ about thief. not ONCE have i read one complaint about this since beta. now theres 2 posts in a row. cmon .

seriously. somebody tell me this.

would u trade skills 2 3 4 5 on weaponset 1 and another skill on weaponset 2 and put them both on cooldown for 3.5 seconds of evade? until you say yes…. plz stop talking about this. bc if u say no…thats silly… well guess what? thats the equivalent of thief doing 3 3 3 on SB.

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

Travlane.5948:

where is this coming from all the sudden. it feels like people just wanna QQ about thief. not ONCE have i read one complaint about this since beta. now theres 2 posts in a row. cmon .

it is because anet keeps nerfing the class and after dec 10 many rerolled something else

so very few that still play thief are usually pretty decent at their class and can easily beat average joe with his eternity… it is pretty common that people rather assume that something is broken than admit that they simply need to l2p

kitten kitten i beat those hardcore lv 50 fractal bosses, i finished all arah pathes!!! how dare this thief not fight toe to toe like true man and not die to my heroic hands!

even on wvw forums there were posts where they called thief class dishonorable… just /facepalm

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

Cynz.9437:

Travlane.5948:

where is this coming from all the sudden. it feels like people just wanna QQ about thief. not ONCE have i read one complaint about this since beta. now theres 2 posts in a row. cmon .

it is because anet keeps nerfing the class and after dec 10 many rerolled something else

so very few that still play thief are usually pretty decent at their class and can easily beat average joe with his eternity… it is pretty common that people rather assume that something is broken than admit that they simply need to l2p

kitten kitten i beat those hardcore lv 50 fractal bosses, i finished all arah pathes!!! how dare this thief not fight toe to toe like true man and not die to my heroic hands!

even on wvw forums there were posts where they called thief class dishonorable… just /facepalm

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

L2P mainly.

(Can’t say more because I might get an infraction. It’s not directed at OP either, more like QQ in general…)

Nerf thief more? Ive already quit this game till the next patch because of constant thief nerfs… Its sad that casual players rule this game..

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

L2P mainly.

(Can’t say more because I might get an infraction. It’s not directed at OP either, more like QQ in general…)

i agree. if u look at other classes. how many times can they pop aegis? block? invuln? almost full protection uptime?

could u imagine if thief had full protection uptime? non thieves are crippled by anet bc they go thru the game just taking on 5-8 mobs at the sametime and never have to press evade or heal. then they have it innately ingrained into their minds and wonder why thieves SEEM so OP. its bc they never have to evade.

dungeons. Fractals. PVE. farming. and about 95% of the time you are in wvw….many classes never have to really worry about their HP. that is the true problem.

the true Story, Thiefs cant do dmg with evades ….. sad ……
BUT warriors CAN, critting to 2k and more …. trolll

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

L2P mainly.

(Can’t say more because I might get an infraction. It’s not directed at OP either, more like QQ in general…)

i agree. if u look at other classes. how many times can they pop aegis? block? invuln? almost full protection uptime?

could u imagine if thief had full protection uptime? non thieves are crippled by anet bc they go thru the game just taking on 5-8 mobs at the sametime and never have to press evade or heal. then they have it innately ingrained into their minds and wonder why thieves SEEM so OP. its bc they never have to evade.

dungeons. Fractals. PVE. farming. and about 95% of the time you are in wvw….many classes never have to really worry about their HP. that is the true problem.

The true problem is willing to learn and adapt, learning to fight in general(I don’t mean winning or beating someone, but PvPing in it’s entirety) (mainly mean WvW/sPvP)… also realizing that no fight is fair… as opposed to hoping that they nerf something on some kittening day… because hey, maybe they will maybe they won’t… you can’t really do much about it either.

I have a feeling that those QQ’ing a lot, were at some point total PvE carebears and are just taking their first steps into PvP’ing in general…

That’s probably the “high-level”/deep issue with the QQ-ers…
Low level/surface issue is that thief has skills and mechanics that some people don’t like…

Arkantos.7460:

the true Story, Thiefs cant do dmg with evades ….. sad ……
BUT warriors CAN, critting to 2k and more …. trolll

On dodge:
A 5 point minor trait that does below average damage in a 180 unit radius for warrior.
A master trait to apply two stacks of bleeding in a 100 unit radius for thief.
A master trait to apply two stacks of bleeding in a 240 unit radius for necro.
A grandmaster trait to deal low damage in fire and earth in a 180 unit radius for ele.

Warrior’s dodge dealing damage fits the class. Similar to what I mentioned earlier about damage through offensive play; you’re fighting in melee range, dodge their blows harming the attacker in the process. This trait would also fit thief, but we can’t have classes being identical.
Thief’s also applies cripple, and the idea behind it is conditions and survival. Fair.
Necro’s also applies regeneration to themself and nearby allies. It also counts as a mark for mark-related traits. Fair.
Ele’s is a blast finisher in earth, and a nice heal in water. Dodging in air will make the next attack of those in the area miss. It’s versatile, a damage buff could be argued for fire and earth, even adding it for air. Still, a strong useful trait. Fair.

So what’s the problem?
It’s a 5 point minor trait that compares to other master and even a grandmaster trait in other classes. It can critical hit, while Mug, which uses a class’s already arguably limited mechanic and has a 20-30 second cool down, was nerfed so it cannot critical hit. Double standard right there, if Mug can’t crit and it’s a master trait, applies to our class mechanic, and has to be chosen, then warrior’s reckless dodge must be made a master/adept level trait, and must be nerfed so it cannot crit. Furthermore, since our F1 isn’t allowed to crit, nerf warrior’s F1 so that can’t crit either.

While on the subject of double standards, another popular one is the warrior’s over powered healing signet. ANet even agrees that it’s over powered. “What? No they haven’t!” Actually yes, they have, because they nerfed the much weaker signet of restoration to the ground, before buffing warrior’s healing signet. There are a lot more examples of warrior being either left alone or buffed with regard to something identical or similar to another class, while that other class has it nerfed.

Point: ANet is bias toward the warrior class. It’s as plain as day, it’s annoying, it’s bad practice, but that’s the way it is. They don’t care that in every other thread, a bunch of replies say “yeah.. and warrior can….” “why does warrior… while we and every other class…” etc. So go bombared warrior’s forum with nerf requests and QQs. Leave thief alone. You don’t have to worry anyway, we’ll most likely get nerfed each patch without your comments. Edit: Clarification; that’s directed at those that do, not the guy who’s post I quoted!

Splatter Paw.7238:

If i recall shortbow was NEVER nerfed so i dont know how we would nerf it “more”. Second why should it be nerfed? Cause some people abuse its evade? Other class’s can maintain 100% vigor without trying and dodge to there happiest desires and its a issue that was can spam a backward evade 3 maybe 4 times (at what point were out of ini and sitting ducks) So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

Trickshot is no longer heatseeking and clusterbomb damage was reduced and it’s range was reduced to 900 from 1200.

Incurafy.6329:

Splatter Paw.7238:

If i recall shortbow was NEVER nerfed so i dont know how we would nerf it “more”. Second why should it be nerfed? Cause some people abuse its evade? Other class’s can maintain 100% vigor without trying and dodge to there happiest desires and its a issue that was can spam a backward evade 3 maybe 4 times (at what point were out of ini and sitting ducks) So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

Trickshot is no longer heatseeking and clusterbomb damage was reduced and it’s range was reduced to 900 from 1200.

MAJOR nerfs on a VERY mediocre weapon. it was balanced. mediocre dmg. mediocre flight speed. high dmg on cluster 4500-5k but 2-4 sec flight time. skills 3 4 5 have no dmg or extremely low dmg but offer cripple/evade/poison/blind. not a very flashy weapon but gives utitlity options in combat. gap creater, poison field, gap closer, CC with cripple and bleeds.

its best thing was heat seeking auto and 1200 range. losing both of those almost make SB not worth taking at all. if dagger or pistol or sword were betting in zergs(problem isthief not being able to get in melee range while so many aoe/people around) then SB would never be used ever.

Travlane.5948:

Incurafy.6329:

Splatter Paw.7238:

If i recall shortbow was NEVER nerfed so i dont know how we would nerf it “more”. Second why should it be nerfed? Cause some people abuse its evade? Other class’s can maintain 100% vigor without trying and dodge to there happiest desires and its a issue that was can spam a backward evade 3 maybe 4 times (at what point were out of ini and sitting ducks) So i disagree, besides haven’t we eatin the bat of nerfs enough the last 6 months?

Trickshot is no longer heatseeking and clusterbomb damage was reduced and it’s range was reduced to 900 from 1200.

MAJOR nerfs on a VERY mediocre weapon. it was balanced. mediocre dmg. mediocre flight speed. high dmg on cluster 4500-5k but 2-4 sec flight time. skills 3 4 5 have no dmg or extremely low dmg but offer cripple/evade/poison/blind. not a very flashy weapon but gives utitlity options in combat. gap creater, poison field, gap closer, CC with cripple and bleeds.

its best thing was heat seeking auto and 1200 range. losing both of those almost make SB not worth taking at all. if dagger or pistol or sword were betting in zergs(problem isthief not being able to get in melee range while so many aoe/people around) then SB would never be used ever.

Precisely this.

@OP:
Thing about SB #3 is that dodges in skills are required. Simply, the thief’s only defense is dodging. What about stealth? That’s not defense. That’s a positioning advantage. It’s fight resetting. Understand how to counterplay a thief and you’ll be fine.

Thieves also have the same number of dodges as everyone else, and without running acrobatics or putting 20 in Trickery, have no exposure to endurance refunding, and the vigor from trickery also has a 67% downtime. Without the shortbow #3, it’s arguable that the class actually has the least amount of evades without consuming Signet of Agility.

So the #3 skill is essential because it provides repositioning, a short-duration cripple to compensate for the cast time on the back movement, and the evade. Without the evade, the thief simply would get downed too easily and lack a skill-based in-combat escape. Spamming deals no damage and also helps reset the fight for the opponent. Don’t like the fact the thief just gained 1800 range on you, or you just gained full health? You might be upset then to find out that the thief only blew his initiative to have his skills come off cooldowns so that he can blow you up if you run at him.

The invuln frames are essential. In some dungeons, there are unblockable, unavoidable sources of damage, such as the aetherblade boss in fractals. That dodge when timed properly can be the only thing which prevents a thief from downing instantly in one hit.

The weapon has medium range, medium damage, is predictable, and accounts for the utility that thieves need to sacrifice in their utility slots due to the countless nerfs they have faced in the past to compensate for it.

I think the only justifiable nerf request would be p/p condi/torment sigil +venoms permastealth that I see running around so frequently now. But I think that has much less to do with the build being overpowered than the fact that torment is overpowered in PvP scenarios, and the sigil is far from helping balance out the condi meta.

p/p condi isnt that bad. u get hit with the first pistol shot then dodge the rest and they are out of everythign and defensless. boom dead. gg.

Hence why I mentioned permastealth. The out-of-stealth attack is effectively a hasted unload in itself and applies bleeding.

It’s not so much particularly overpowered damage-wise as it is simply difficult to deal with. They force torment on you and apply constant pressure from movement and stealth with high attack rate and overall extremely solid condition application.

As I said, it’s not so much an issue with the build or class as it is sigil of torment leading to just a little bit too much condition application in the form of torment, for running away becomes dangerous and tricky as they can apply ranged pressure, and running towards them is often hopeless due to the ease of combined dodges, blinds, and applications of stealth.

Like I said, I could see complaints about decent players running that build. I’m not calling it OP or totally unfair as simply the understanding of its annoyance factor. Otherwise, I don’t see why anyone should be complaining about thieves.