Guild Wars 2

Thief traits are up let us discuss here!

they are up? where?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/
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Much less exciting than the previous iteration to be honest. Kind of disappointing.

Quinci.5968:

Much less exciting than the previous iteration to be honest. Kind of disappointing.

I somewhat agree. I was looking forward to Withdraw leaving behind a needle trap.

I’ll wait to hear the opinions of the experts before being too disappointed, though :-)

Practiced Tolerance: Gain ferocity based on your precision at a rate of 10%.

This is coupled with No Quarter in the CS line .

No Quarter: Landing a critical hit while under the effect of fury extends the duration of fury by 2 seconds (this effect has a 2 second internal cooldown). Gain up to 250 ferocity (based on level) while under the effects of fury.

And

Unrelenting Strikes: Gain fury for 4 seconds when striking a foe whose health is below 50% health. This effect has a 10 second internal cooldown.

I was really concerned about FURY sources before. I think overall this a nice boost in the first CS line that was proposed. Consider No quarter while under the effects of Fury from your pack runes or using Runes of Rage.

“Resilience of Shadows: Stealth effects that you apply reduce incoming attack damage by 25%.” -Nerfed from 50%, but that’s fine, still will be strong. Im only worried about other sources of hard counter reveals which im still searching through the notes to find:
EDIT: forgot about ctrl f.. we’re clean other than engi’s super super hard counter

I think I liked the old Practiced Tolerance better :/

Compared to what was said before there is some disapointment but overall it’s not that bad and maybe some of them were a little OPish, like Hidden Thief not being a blinding powder. Though that would just add another condi to steal.

I think everyone is pleased to see Last Refuge is no longer a minor trait and getting Merciful Ambush in place of it is not a bad thing. Don’t tell me no one has ever wanted to take it in their build but didn’t because it would waste a major trait slot for helping up a downed ally. And we all know we all didn’t care much for Last Refuge without a Vamp rune to save us from auto-revealed at 25% health.

I admit I was looking forward to auto-dodging projectiles with Don’t Stop but that’s actually pretty nice instead.

Resilience of Shadows getting nerfed is understandable as it’s now a minor trait instead of a major one. The Grandmaster one for the pistols not being around was kind of a bummer though.

Oh and 1200 range steal… yes please.

Oh and Dagger training is much better and synergizes with the rest of DA much better.

roamzero.9486:

I think I liked the old Practiced Tolerance better :/

I did too..
But
Owell..
I’m 2 for 1 with these changes

roamzero.9486:

I think I liked the old Practiced Tolerance better :/

Hard call given we no longer get ferocity or vitality out of the trait lines. I used to use PT if I did not have other sources of vitality. The question than becomes how much will base Vitality be boosted or how much more can we get in our gear?

We might see more knights/cavalier/valkyrie stuff out there in plaze of Zerker.

Although I’m going to miss my Long reach (1500 range Steals), 1200 base is alright, I suppose.

They really did a number on critical strikes, Overrall I like the buffs, it actually made CS very appealing. All these extra damage boosters are incredible, and quite honestly i’m wondering why we are getting so much, but i’m not complaining.

I’m glad they removed the Endurance loss on Haste, I didn’t see an ICD skill fact though. So hmm.. Perma Quickness. lulz..
Flanking Strike: Gain haste when attacking a foe from behind or the side
Haste: This ability no longer removes endurance. Gain Fury in addition to Quickness when activating this ability

I will miss the old Practiced tolerance, but maybe our base vitality will be increased. I even got my Huntsman up to make that Vitality—>Ferocity food. lul.

No more Richochet— Good.
No base range increase, still we have lackluster 900 range, only range we have is our 1200 steal, and our underwater weapons lul. (By the way I hope the tow Line pull for our Spear was fixed so we don’t get dazed while we pull our self to the person)
They finally answered eveyrone’s QQ about Last refuge. It is now optional, and in the Adept Line.

Executioner and Improvisation will be a definite tough choice, because as it is we have the: Ferocious Strikes: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold, and then when enemies get below 25% We also get Executioner: Executioner: Deal 20% extra damage when your target is below the health threshold. (Formerly Critical Strikes)

So we get extra damage for targets above 50% threshhold, and below 25% threshhold, But having that compete with being able to use your steal skills twice via Improv.. Hmm… Improvisation: One random skill category is immediate recharged when you steal. You can use stolen items twice. 2 Ectoplasms anyone?

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

Looks like richochet has been removed it seems..

I also noticed that Trappers Respite was changed. So that awesome Withdraw + Trapper rune combo will never be possible, RIP. So much for trap Thief lol.

Kageseigi.2150:

Quinci.5968:

Much less exciting than the previous iteration to be honest. Kind of disappointing.

I somewhat agree. I was looking forward to Withdraw leaving behind a needle trap.

I’ll wait to hear the opinions of the experts before being too disappointed, though :-)

Yes I agree. I can not see I am too keen on the change myself. I also prefrred the old guarded initiation. I do not see Quick pockets taken much.

roamzero.9486:

I also noticed that Trappers Respite was changed. So that awesome Withdraw + Trapper rune combo will never be possible, RIP. So much for trap Thief lol.

Agreed. That would have been a reason to go trapper thief now it meh.

Bret.6940:

Looks like richochet has been removed it seems..

Hmm if there no baseline increase in pistol range , given the boots to the range of other classes weapons p/p takes a huge hit here.vvvv

babazhook.6805:

I also prefrred the old guarded initiation.

Ah, I missed that! I guess I skimmed it. I thought they just lowered the threshold from 100% to 90%. Sad. So we pretty much have to heal AND hit the enemy before we remove those conditions, correct? And no resistance, eh?

AikijinX.6258:

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

What does unsplit mean in that context?

can someone please explain endless stamina to me. Is that 75% endurance regen (50% base + 25% from trait) or 50% + 50% for 100% endurance regen

They took away Last Refuge as a minor trait. I think its a win overall. Not sure what place pistols are in right now though.

Jana.6831:

AikijinX.6258:

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

What does unsplit mean in that context?

Who knows

See, I always thought I was stupid because I just smash things when doing hearts and stuff, I don’t even bother to read the description anymore as I don’t seem to get it anyway. Then I thought maybe in my native language it would be better, but no (I tried). And I guess it’s just the way it’s written for the most part. Other is “Deliver these items to npc xy” and you get no clue where this npc can be found, there’s a group of 20 standing around and all look the same and somewhere far away among 5 other same looking npcs there’s the one you need – it’s far more efficent to just smash things.

Maybe unsplit means that it won’t inflict vulnerability anymore, but in the end: who knows.
“We will give you a new combat system on June 23, what will change, who knows?!”

Looks like all the pistol stuff is basically gone. Did the extra range and ricochet get rolled into the baseline?

Or maybe Sniper is real, and pistol stuff will be part of it.

Ragion.2831:

can someone please explain endless stamina to me. Is that 75% endurance regen (50% base + 25% from trait) or 50% + 50% for 100% endurance regen

It looks like they cut vigor overall by 50 percent than give that 50 percent back to the thief that takes acrobatics.

unsplit means that CnD will no longer have different damage in different areas.
it will now do the same damage whether you are in pve or pvp or wvw.

previously pve CnD did more dmg and pvp less dmg. now they reduced dmg in pve and increased dmg in pvp so that it is now the same.

After all the complaints, traited steal will have a shorter CD than before, while only fear skull and guard mace skill got nerfed (I know ranger duration is less, but it has better burst removal now).

Steal range increased.

Endless stamina was actually buffed to the 50% mark that we wanted.

Don’t stop is an anti chill trait, so we’re going to get more QQ about how it doesn’t affect us.

Last refuge is a selectable trait.

No ICD mentioned on lotus poison (here’s hoping there’s none)

Hard to catch is a respectable trait.

Not too bad overall.

roamzero.9486:

I also noticed that Trappers Respite was changed. So that awesome Withdraw + Trapper rune combo will never be possible, RIP. So much for trap Thief lol.

I’m sad about that but overall the changes are okay.

Jana.6831:

AikijinX.6258:

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

What does unsplit mean in that context?

It means before the skill was doing more damage in PvE than it was PvP. Now they do the same, finding some middle ground between the PvE and PvP damage.

Dondagora.9645:

It means before the skill was doing more damage in PvE than it was PvP. Now they do the same, finding some middle ground between the PvE and PvP damage.

Yeah, someone already answered it and I spent some time on google to find it was/is 33% reduced in pvp which I didn’t know.

AikijinX.6258:

Jana.6831:

AikijinX.6258:

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

What does unsplit mean in that context?

Who knows

Pretty sure WvW is considered PvE… as in they share the changes.

OH NO! Reread and overlooked this:

Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.

These need some serious work. They need to take Descent of Shadows back into Acrobatics Adept where they found it. No discussion, just get to work guys. The fall damage trait should not be a GM trait in shadows, it should be a low tier Acrobatics ability.

Also, why does EVERY class get their 900 range attacks bumped up to 1200, EXCEPT for the SB Thieves that had it stolen from them in the early months. And don’t tell me “but Thieves will be getting rifles,” rifles don’t shoot rainbow unicorns and I’m not going to be putting Dreamer away any time soon. I want to be shooting people with rainbow unicorns at 1200 range.

babazhook.6805:

Ragion.2831:

can someone please explain endless stamina to me. Is that 75% endurance regen (50% base + 25% from trait) or 50% + 50% for 100% endurance regen

It looks like they cut vigor overall by 50 percent than give that 50 percent back to the thief that takes acrobatics.

Is it that, or are we going to have 50% base, then have an extra 50% of that 50%?

Basically… will we have 75% of normal?

And I also doubt there will be a re-work of these announced changes, considering the patch is next week and E3 is happening.

Kageseigi.2150:

babazhook.6805:

Ragion.2831:

can someone please explain endless stamina to me. Is that 75% endurance regen (50% base + 25% from trait) or 50% + 50% for 100% endurance regen

It looks like they cut vigor overall by 50 percent than give that 50 percent back to the thief that takes acrobatics.

Is it that, or are we going to have 50% base, then have an extra 50% of that 50%?

Basically… will we have 75% of normal?

I think it will be multiplicative, not additive, so:

5 endurance a seconds base
1.5*5=7.5
1.75*5=8.75

So normal vigor now is 1 dodge every 6.6 seconds. (50/7.5)
Our Endless Stamina vigor is 1 dodge every ~5.75. (50/8.75)

Overall I´m disappointed. Maybe its because I´m tired, but that new engi trait just gets me kittened off…
A class which was going very well against thieves up to thieves being forced to avoid alone contact in pvp gets a direct hardcounter? Great, just great. So they can just spam (yeah, THEY can do this, we cannot) through their kits hoping just to tickle the thief and then beat the hell out of him.
I hoped for more information about stolen skills. Ectoplasm keeps the way it is now? Funny thinking of “balance”.

Merciful Ambush: Stealth yourself and your target for 3 seconds when reviving an ally. You revive allies 10% faster. (Former Adept Trickery trait)
——So when i´m going to rezz someone and get hit from an engi with the trait…6sec revealed? Nice. Sry buddy, can´t rezz you, too dangerous.

Concealed Defeat: Create a Smoke Screen when downed. Deception abilities recharge 20% faster. (Former Adept Critical Strikes trait)
—— sooo, when I need as lot stealth as possible I take this (“permastealth” tryhard cough). Nice when using hide in shadows, blinding powder, shadowstep, refuge, thiefguild. To run around in stealth not fighting anyone. Hurray. (giving up our only reliable condi-remove xD)

Shadow Protector: When you grant stealth to an ally, they gain 3 seconds of regeneration. This effect no longer has an internal cooldown.
—-at least it grants regen now even if we already have it. And no icd anymore. Running around all day in stealth avoid fighting and regen even more. Even more hurray…

Cloaked in Shadows or Shadow’s Rejuvenation. That choice…

Feline Grace:
——1sec icd. better than before. Someone knows how it is with the 50% stronger vigor?
Btw why other classes are getting traits to get stronger vigor as well? Good bye special class traits… Feline Grace felt special. Soon it could be good old days. ^^

Vigorous Recovery or Pain Response? Great. Now I have to choose between an important condi-cleanse (because we have so many reliable ones) or vigor on heal. Lets see if the vigor from bountiful thef and feline grace will be enough or the vigor on heal is needed.

Guarded Initiation: Remove vulnerability, weakness and slow from yourself when striking an enemy while above the 90% health threshold.
—-not sure if its better or worse than before.
Right now I don´t think I will ever use it.

Don’t Stop: The effects of cripple and chill on you are reduced by 50%, meaning your movement is decreased by 25% and 33% respectively, rather than 50% and 66%. If you would become immobilized, you are instead crippled for 4 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.
——don´t stop like it was before sounded OP against mesmer (free mirror blade evade?). Now cripple and chill doesn´t even affect the movement-skills. Indirect nerf before even released? xD
Ele even gets a cleanse of chill by dodge-trait. Ice-shard useless? And we hoped to get cleanse by dodge. So naive…
Interesting against immobilize. Could be very strong.

Healing from Assassin’s Reward improved? Or at least fixed? Some skills still not “rewarding” porperly.

Trickster: Reduce recharge on tricks. Tricks remove 1 condition when used.
—-sound good. But I don´t think it can compete with bountiful theft. Added reliable condi-remove isn´t viable. That irony. We have to trait for it to gain the old withdraw-cd. Next…

Quick Pockets: not very much loved in acro, maybe you will find your soul mate here?
Sry, I´m already married with Sleight of Hand :/

Interesting change for basilisk-venom. Smaller duration, but when missing one you have a second try.

Thats it for now. I´m not playing engi or ele that much, but their changes are feeling much more promissing than ours.
Anet still doen´t get it that we don´t like to be tanky? I didn´t like thief is called “thief” and that Acro doesn´t provide any damage now.
New trolling specc 60660. I mean, what else you need a “tanky” thief for?
PvP I´m pretty sure to be 66006. What do you want to achieve with stealth? Your role is still decap, +1 and maybe kill mesmer (going to look at their changes next, maybe they got something like the engi-trait).
66006 gonna hit hard and wont let any mistake through. The good thieves will learn and master it (like 26006 before), keep killing people which will go to the forum and complain. Like always.

Edit: “Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.”
Really? lol. Our survivability is about not getting hit. Can someone tell me how to avoid all the AoE frome engi alone? AIR STRIKE – thief revealed and down. Nice. lets be boring condi or bunker. While far less effective then every other class in that role. x)

Something needs to be done about the removal of Ricochet. Why P/P thieves, the load-out that needed the most love, got shafted like this is beyond me.

I sure hope that trait (increased range and all) is simply baseline now.

And I also doubt there will be a re-work of these announced changes, considering the patch is next week and E3 is happening.

Well, it’s unlikely they’ll make any major changes by next week, sure, but there’s no reason they couldn’t fix things by the week after, or the week after that. Just because they make a change does not mean it’s permanent.

Ok, tell me if I’m missing something…

Hard to Catch: Break stun and refill endurance when you are disabled (stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch)

Don’t Stop: The effects of cripple and chill on you are reduced by 50%, meaning your movement is decreased by 25% and 33% respectively, rather than 50% and 66%. If you would become immobilized, you are instead crippled for 4 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

First of all, does Hard to Catch have an ICD? Secondly, does it prevent Immobilized? And if so, if both traits are selected, which would proc first when Immobilized?

Also, is it just me, or do these two traits seems to make a thief extremely difficult to hinder movement? If so, I am so happy! :-D

Kageseigi.2150:

Ok, tell me if I’m missing something…

---

Hard to Catch: Break stun and refill endurance when you are disabled (stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch)

Don’t Stop: The effects of cripple and chill on you are reduced by 50%, meaning your movement is decreased by 25% and 33% respectively, rather than 50% and 66%. If you would become immobilized, you are instead crippled for 4 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

---

First of all, does Hard to Catch have an ICD? Secondly, does it prevent Immobilized? And if so, if both traits are selected, which would proc first when Immobilized?

Also, is it just me, or do these two traits seems to make a thief extremely difficult to hinder movement? If so, I am so happy! :-D

Hard to catch will definitly have a ICD. In the first stream it was 30sec I think. And no, it will not proc on immobilize. Immobilize isn´t even listed
Yeah, they want us to run away. Why else they would give us that traits, removing some swiftness, adding reveal x)

I have been looking at traps again and there a few things that are interesting.

One is a trapper is no longer revealed when a trap goes off if in stealth. This is significant with that super speed and trappers runes. You can now drop at a persons feet and have him trigger it as you stealth from using the trap. This will allow you to get an attack from stealth off be it a backstab or your bleed load from the AA on pistol.

Now respite, in addition to that lowered cooldown on traps of 20 percent adds 5 stacks of vulnerability and 5 stacks of might. That not all that bad and if you use this with shadowtrap you get a total of 15 stacks might and 5 stacks vulnerability along with that Fury. This will also put you in stealth both when set and when triggered but the triggered part could be very handy .

Now you can than take “revealed training” which allows 200 more power from stealth on top of that 15 might or on any attack out of stealth after a trap goes off. +650 for that attack is sweet if he stands on that needle trap or is knocked down with tripwire you will not be revealed and can get that 200 bonus for a + 350 attack.

Alternatively you can take the trait that lowers the cooldown on recharging traps on a steal

There ARE possibilities here.

AikijinX.6258:

Executioner and Improvisation will be a definite tough choice, because as it is we have the: Ferocious Strikes: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold, and then when enemies get below 25% We also get Executioner: Executioner: Deal 20% extra damage when your target is below the health threshold. (Formerly Critical Strikes)

So we get extra damage for targets above 50% threshhold, and below 25% threshhold, But having that compete with being able to use your steal skills twice via Improv.. Hmm… Improvisation: One random skill category is immediate recharged when you steal. You can use stolen items twice. 2 Ectoplasms anyone?

Executioner threshold is 50% not 25%

Vavume.8065:

AikijinX.6258:

Executioner and Improvisation will be a definite tough choice, because as it is we have the: Ferocious Strikes: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold, and then when enemies get below 25% We also get Executioner: Executioner: Deal 20% extra damage when your target is below the health threshold. (Formerly Critical Strikes)

So we get extra damage for targets above 50% threshhold, and below 25% threshhold, But having that compete with being able to use your steal skills twice via Improv.. Hmm… Improvisation: One random skill category is immediate recharged when you steal. You can use stolen items twice. 2 Ectoplasms anyone?

Executioner threshold is 50% not 25%

Mehh.. That’s even better lmaoooo. So we get 10% extra critical damage against foes above 50% of their health, and then an EXTRA 20% damage to foes below 50% of their health. I call it a win win for builds that revolve around high crit chance. A.K.A mine.

i liked the old annoucned changes better…. with the trap on heal… 0 damage reduction in stealth… +50% poison damage for potent poison.

I thought i might be able to play a good condi build but … meh.

would have to check changes of other classes if they also got nerfed