Guild Wars 2

*Thieves
/15char

Chips.7968:

Please post your build where you’re doing 15k backstabs, 5k+ hits, perma blinds, are tanky AND evasive.

Every other spec now have access to that kind of dmg to bring target down from 100 to 0 in an instant, except…. thief.

I disagree with every word of original poster. Balance is not based on “just started playing thief recently”. You have no right to talk on behalf of the thief community as if you are one.

Dear Anet, get a grip, give your thief more attention.

Alright, so +condi is the theme of HoT xpac and I decided to give a condi DD build a go in some sPvP matchups, and it’s very strong.

Why’s this relevant? +1 “role” is not a role, it’s a bandaid. Sure you can slot dash DD and have the extreme mobility and literally swim through the map, but I chose condi because +1 is not a role IMO.

As a condi build (lotus training, adventure runes, SoA, carrion ammy) I not only 1v1 well, I 1v2 well, and can even 1v3 if they’re all dumb enough to stay close. They simply cant hit me with anything, there’s sooo many evades. The thing is: every time you’re evading, you’re loosing condi’s, healing yourself, and dealing damage, all during those evade frames.

+1 is dead if you’re willing to accept & move in the direction the game dev’s want you to (condi, not zerk). Sure there’s marauder’s/zerk direct damage builds, and they’ll always be there, but they’ll be inferior because… wait for it…

thief cant break toughness/tanky builds quickly, it’s been stated many times before and it’s only true using direct damage (power, precision, ferocity). So how about try a damage mode that negates the impact of toughness?

“but ***class has condi removal”.. great, I have 7 dodges that evade, deal condi damage, remove condi’s, and heal me before I tap into my spammable initiative abilities.

Khazik.8052:

“but ***class has condi removal”.. great, I have 7 dodges that evade, deal condi damage, remove condi’s, and heal me before I tap into my spammable initiative abilities.

Hard counters to this would be necromancers reflecting all conditions (that health pool is not a fan of the conditions we can squeeze out) and Guardians, who if they’re lucky or good can pen you in with their fancy cages.

But considering Thief matchup history has been almost entirely bad, that’s a solid build for PvP in the current meta

D/D condi can actually wreck a necro because of how difficult it is to land a transfer against that many evades.

+1ing as a Thief isn’t dead. It’s actually gotten a whole lot more offensive. BP + Bound + Steal + Backstab is a harder hitting version of our old max burst combo. Bound also being our evade removes a chunk of the old counter-play to BP + HS. And staff? Staff has so much potential to just delete people all while evading. Vault is like a weaker Whirlwind that can be spammed.

Overworld.9613:

Khazik.8052:

“but ***class has condi removal”.. great, I have 7 dodges that evade, deal condi damage, remove condi’s, and heal me before I tap into my spammable initiative abilities.

Hard counters to this would be necromancers reflecting all conditions (that health pool is not a fan of the conditions we can squeeze out) and Guardians, who if they’re lucky or good can pen you in with their fancy cages.

But considering Thief matchup history has been almost entirely bad, that’s a solid build for PvP in the current meta

The only annoying thing w/necro’s is their double health bar death shroud. Assuming they hit me with their condi transfer, the condi’s are cleared during evade frames on a 1s cd.

I will note however, those guard traps are super annoying, and screwed me a few times starting out w/my condi build. My answer is: trigger, and tele out, or do my ballet dancing inside.

the day comes and trolls turn to stone..
btw OP.. THIEFS are absolutely balanced, indeed i think they are very OP in current meta. THIEVES on the other hand are not…

LOL, well he did say Druid was good too…lol.

The only thing that keeps thieves alive in PvP in back capping and +1ing. Now many thieves myself included do not like only back capping and +1ing but we are pretty much pigeonholed into doing it unless you’re a lot better than your opponent or playing medic/condi thief. This is where many of the “underpowered” claims come from, people who try to go outside that one role and get rekt for doing so. In short thieves are balanced for their role, but they only have one general roll, unlike other classes that can fill several, and that is where thief needs buffs.

Runewolf.8456:

The only thing that keeps thieves alive in PvP in back capping and +1ing. Now many thieves myself included do not like only back capping and +1ing but we are pretty much pigeonholed into doing it unless you’re a lot better than your opponent or playing medic/condi thief. This is where many of the “underpowered” claims come from, people who try to go outside that one role and get rekt for doing so. In short thieves are balanced for their role, but they only have one general roll, unlike other classes that can fill several, and that is where thief needs buffs.

Well put. However, I’d have to say that as long as we are as mobile as we are, it is hard to justify having us have access to non support roles. If we could do everything, while being the most mobile, we’d risk being ridiculously overpowered. Hopefully our next elite spec will trade mobility for functionality.

Xeyon.6419:

Runewolf.8456:

The only thing that keeps thieves alive in PvP in back capping and +1ing. Now many thieves myself included do not like only back capping and +1ing but we are pretty much pigeonholed into doing it unless you’re a lot better than your opponent or playing medic/condi thief. This is where many of the “underpowered” claims come from, people who try to go outside that one role and get rekt for doing so. In short thieves are balanced for their role, but they only have one general roll, unlike other classes that can fill several, and that is where thief needs buffs.

Well put. However, I’d have to say that as long as we are as mobile as we are, it is hard to justify having us have access to non support roles. If we could do everything, while being the most mobile, we’d risk being ridiculously overpowered. Hopefully our next elite spec will trade mobility for functionality.

I honestly feel our mobility is only really helpful in specific scenarios, like conquest where I’d tend to agree with you that thieves could easily become extremely powerful in this game mode if A-net is careless with its buffs. But outside of conquest in PvE or WvW there aren’t really any capture points to back cap or any other scenarios where our mobility gives us a large advantage over other classes short of running or resetting fights, which makes our mobility in these two game modes is a poor excuse to leave thief in the dust if you ask me.

In here lies a lot of the issues with balancing thieves in particular since A-net likes to keep our skills roughly the same across all game modes I believe that the advantage our mobility gives in PvP will continue to hold thieves back as a class for quite a while, unless we start gaining some more imaginative sustain buff similar to what daredevil has brought to the profession.

Balance Patch 11/11:

We deleted Short Bow 5 (drop mic).

Runewolf.8456:

The only thing that keeps thieves alive in PvP in back capping and +1ing. Now many thieves myself included do not like only back capping and +1ing but we are pretty much pigeonholed into doing it unless you’re a lot better than your opponent or playing medic/condi thief. This is where many of the “underpowered” claims come from, people who try to go outside that one role and get rekt for doing so. In short thieves are balanced for their role, but they only have one general roll, unlike other classes that can fill several, and that is where thief needs buffs.

when ppl will understand that +1 is not a role? rly guys… every profession can be +1… and can be a better +1 than thief, look at mesmer for example…

mobility op
thieves don t need buff

some others need small nerfs thats all

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Edit: is called competetive, when certain class do their job in order to win the match. Not 5v5 gather on one place and fight each other. Strategy to win the game.

yes…it was designed to be a fighter lol….the whole initiative system was designed for that, at the first launch anyways
read the dev’s early commentaries.

its role shifted through out the years with nerfs and became quite awkward
you can say that thief’s role is to decap
but that is about it
every other class can tank, dps, support and do all kinds of things but thieves are really stuck with one
hit and run

that’s why there are so much complaining about thieves

Zdenny.2704:

I guess you dont get the idea of competetive games. You dont play solo, you play with a team. And in order to win you sometimes has to sacrifice something. Look at ESL, fast moving and capturing points wins the game. Its just too much valuable.
But of course if you want to play random unranked and jst brawl with somebody you might be right. And if people want kills instead of winning the game, then my oppinion is stupid.

Then call me mad, or lunatic…. But if I press a button that says “PVP” I expect getting an experience similar to a Player (me) fighting another Player.

Conversely, if the button were “PVRCOTF” ( Player versus red circles on the floor) I’d also get an accurate idea of what I’m going to face.

So maybe the root of the problem is a lack of exactitude in describing the game experience for each of the different classes.

This could be easily solved replacing the “PVP” tab in the thieves class by a “PVRCOTF” tab, complete with statistics about % of captures, average capture time, total distance travelled, and average speed per second between points, in order to more effectively measure your contribution to the team.

That way, no Thief would be erroneously mislead into thinking that by clicking “PVP” they are going to actually fight other players.

Nephar.3746:

Runewolf.8456:

The only thing that keeps thieves alive in PvP in back capping and +1ing. Now many thieves myself included do not like only back capping and +1ing but we are pretty much pigeonholed into doing it unless you’re a lot better than your opponent or playing medic/condi thief. This is where many of the “underpowered” claims come from, people who try to go outside that one role and get rekt for doing so. In short thieves are balanced for their role, but they only have one general roll, unlike other classes that can fill several, and that is where thief needs buffs.

when ppl will understand that +1 is not a role? rly guys… every profession can be +1… and can be a better +1 than thief, look at mesmer for example…

That doesn’t change the fact that thieves where basically designed for +1ing…

Not saying i like it, just saying.