Guild Wars 2

I’m hoping thieves take a massive nerf next patch – its much needed and the community will rejoice.

tagnut.8621:

I’m hoping thieves take a massive nerf next patch – its much needed and the community will rejoice.

Introduction: I haven’t read all answers (I bet most of them say the same) and I’m not a thief (in sPvP I play ranger and guardian).

Just stop blaming about thieves, they have been already nerfed enough! In every MMO the stealthy class is supposed to be a glass cannon, and actually they are! (At least who has the glass cannon build).

Instead of pointing at how they are OP, learn to play your own class! I’ve seen a lot of players getting owned by thieves only because they don’t have stun-breakers or ‘cause they don’t evade properly.

More than this, start blaming about light users! Another time, as happened in every MMO I’ve played, light users have become immortals. At the beginning I thought that Elementalists were the most useless profession in sPvP and tournies. Now they are literally immortals and I manage to kill them only if I am with at least another player.

I’ve always HATED magic classes, and I said: “Woah, a game in which mages aren’t so OP”. I was wrong, that’s annoying…

Not to talk about warriors and their autoattack skill with axe (beside HB, eviscerate, etc.) – almost 1k damage in less than 3 seconds while rangers with Rapid Fire take 5 seconds to do the same amount of damage (I’m not counting power-precision-etc).

There’s a lot to talk about for balancing sPvP, but thieves are OK just how they are.

Go cry Thief actually are so kittening op… in last wvw thief one combo me when i had about 2k toughntness and 20k hp. It’s normal for u?

ps. after this he just disapear and took down my friend

Naustis.8510:

Go cry Thief actually are so kittening op… in last wvw thief one combo me when i had about 2k toughntness and 20k hp. It’s normal for u?

ps. after this he just disapear and took down my friend

Yes, it’s normal. Idk which class you play, neither your equip, but I bet if you’ve managed to hit him, you would have kitten him ^-^

BTW, I was talking about sPvP, WvW is another fact (you have to consider equip, lag and so on…)

a-net hopefully cares more about actual players, not their forum community.
Roll a thief. And show us how op they are. You’ll get a cookie. Yes, in certain situations thieves are easier to play for people who are not capable of anything else. But you will be amazed how thieves are thrown around where it actually matters.
Even before signet rebalancing thief wasn’t much.
Now, before any stupid examples are posted, please follow this pattern for reporting thief’s op-ness:
PvP type – PvP type goal(s) – Purpose(s) of particular thief build considering these goal(s) – how effective is thief at pursuing these goals
If people could understand at very least two first parts of this, they would be ashamed to continue

bwillb.2165:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Stealth isn’t innate, you have to activate it through one of a few slot or weapon skills. And it certainly isn’t survivability. It doesn’t block a single point of damage. It’s a positioning tool. The current rendering issues cause it to be more effective than it should be, and most thieves against nerfs will agree that that issue needs to be fixed.
The warrior, on the other hand, is at least as mobile as the thief in combat (greatsword alone has at least two rush abilities that DON’T take resources away from their burst attacks), plus true innate passive survivability (extremely high health pool and the strongest armor in the game), PLUS abilities that directly block ALL incoming damage.

Dude, stealth relates directly to survivability. I’ve mained stealth classes in every other MMO but this one. I understand the inherent benefits to stealth. If you aren’t using this capability to it’s fullest extent, you’re missing out.

Ichishi.9613:

a-net hopefully cares more about actual players, not their forum community.
Roll a thief. And show us how op they are. You’ll get a cookie. Yes, in certain situations thieves are easier to play for people who are not capable of anything else. But you will be amazed how thieves are thrown around where it actually matters.
Even before signet rebalancing thief wasn’t much.
Now, before any stupid examples are posted, please follow this pattern for reporting thief’s op-ness:
PvP type – PvP type goal(s) – Purpose(s) of particular thief build considering these goal(s) – how effective is thief at pursuing these goals
If people could understand at very least two first parts of this, they would be ashamed to continue

+1

Aliatis.7836:

Naustis.8510:

Go cry Thief actually are so kittening op… in last wvw thief one combo me when i had about 2k toughntness and 20k hp. It’s normal for u?

ps. after this he just disapear and took down my friend

Yes, it’s normal. Idk which class you play, neither your equip, but I bet if you’ve managed to hit him, you would have kitten him ^-^

BTW, I was talking about sPvP, WvW is another fact (you have to consider equip, lag and so on…)

Yeah kite someone who appear from nowhere and kill u in 1-s.

Naustis.8510:

Aliatis.7836:

Naustis.8510:

Go cry Thief actually are so kittening op… in last wvw thief one combo me when i had about 2k toughntness and 20k hp. It’s normal for u?

ps. after this he just disapear and took down my friend

Yes, it’s normal. Idk which class you play, neither your equip, but I bet if you’ve managed to hit him, you would have kitten him ^-^

BTW, I was talking about sPvP, WvW is another fact (you have to consider equip, lag and so on…)

Yeah kite someone who appear from nowhere and kill u in 1-s.

1-s? XD Even this ranger lasts at least 3 seconds w/o stun-breakers! Are you worse than him? °-° I feel sorry for you…

Man everyone just speaks as if it was 1v1…
This game is about teams!

Now let’ kitten an example: I’m all alone vs 2 thieves, now what do you think would happen even if I’m a totally tough engi?
…. exactly, and just to point it out, it won’t take more than 3secs, even if I had the time to place smtg to setup, even big’ol bomb needs time to blow.

I deserve a chance even slight, even if based on luck, I have to be able to buy some time to my teammates at least.

About those QQing about: hey you should use that stun breaker man you’r bad and stuff… again this is team pvp unless it’s 1v1 I’m almost always on CD, traveling around the map to get to the next point to capture, I’m fighting many guys not just a supposedly 1v1 fresh match that just began.

Example: I’ve been defending the keep from a couple guys a while ago I had to stun break I’m on CD-oh a thief-bam-bam-downed-invisi-stomp… how could some1 think of this as “fair”?

Just in case you are gonna say: then bring more stun breaks…do you really think one would need this much utility just to counter a single skill spam? no skill should need an entire build in order to be countered if it was balanced.

Now let’s analyze the damage:
most thieves would say-hey warriors do hella dmg theyz OP, well good news: hundred blades burst dmg is just the last hit/s (the others are usually bearable for most people), which usually hits for a ton ok, but it’s truly your fault for standing there like a duck the whole combo, again this is warriors, they need an entire build in order to do this not just a skill, and they still hafta time it.

Also… this isn’t meant to be a burst class, in fact the game is designed to allow all classes to do that kind of dmg (being a “glasscannon” yea), I have however yet to see a mesmer do THAT damage THAT easily.

Last but not least: most ppl run around with 2k300 armor, tanks usually 2k700, maybe even more for some classes, also most ppl prefer stacking vitality over toughness simply to have an easier way vs condition based builds (and I agree with them).
Now… do I HAVE to be a tank in order to survive a thief?

I however have a suggestion, seeing how often I have to face’em in pvp and such, why don’t we all play thief, to “understand each other”, once ppl see how the rates of played characters are off I bet there will be some changes.
“If you can’t beat’em, join’em”.

This is not a flame, this is not complaint, this is fact, simply ‘coz there’s an average of at least 6 thieves playin in any match (countin both teams).

@Aliatis, check closer, the guy managed to slow down the vid on “key” actions, by at least 40%, do the maths.

Now I don’t want to look like an “hey nerf’em” guy. I seriously want to see thieves with MANY different builds, I want to try it myself but just nothing can compare to that, I mean, would you actually use traps? especially when stealth utilities are a must?

Rfreak.6591:

Example: I’ve been defending the keep from a couple guys a while ago I had to stun break I’m on CD-oh a thief-bam-bam-downed-invisi-stomp… how could some1 think of this as “fair”?

You’re in CD… It’s normal, don’t feel frustrated for that <_< If you’re not alone, you will be ressed by a friend ^-^

Rfreak.6591:

Just in case you are gonna say: then bring more stun breaks…do you really think one would need this much utility just to counter a single skill spam? no skill should need an entire build in order to be countered if it was balanced.

If you don’t want waste your utilities of traits on stun-breakers, deal with it! You will be a pain in the neck in other situations against other classes.

Rfreak.6591:

Now let’s analyze the damage:
most thieves would say-hey warriors do hella dmg theyz OP, well good news: hundred blades burst dmg is just the last hit/s (the others are usually bearable for most people), which usually hits for a ton ok, but it’s truly your fault for standing there like a duck the whole combo, again this is warriors, they need an entire build in order to do this not just a skill, and they still hafta time it.

Thieves need also an entire build to do 10k damage ^-^ They don’t hit so hard with a survavibility or condi build.

Rfreak.6591:

I have however yet to see a mesmer do THAT damage THAT easily.

Once a mesmer hit me for 6k with Mind Wrack… This is a pretty high damage for such an annoying class (I mean clones and bla bla bla).

Rfreak.6591:

Now… do I HAVE to be a tank in order to survive a thief?

Yes! Or learn when you have to dodge. Otherwise, use the build you prefer to kitten other classes, except thieves.

Edit:

Rfreak.6591:

Now I don’t want to look like an “hey nerf’em” guy. I seriously want to see thieves with MANY different builds, I want to try it myself but just nothing can compare to that, I mean, would you actually use traps? especially when stealth utilities are a must?

I agree with that, but I would like to see MANY different builds on almost every class. I’m tired to see every elementalist with the tanky build….

By “an entire build” speaking about warriors, I meant all their utilities for the quickness, stun and immobilize, all a thief needs is stealth and it fits in every situation, and yea you might get some damage from mesmers at times, but it requires a crazy effort/setup to land it (especially compared to thieves), considering how easy are shatters to dodge.

Rfreak.6591:

By “an entire build” speaking about warriors, I meant all their utilities for the quickness, stun and immobilize, all a thief needs is stealth and it fits in every situation.

1. Thieves to immobilize need the Elite (Basilisk Venom) or an Utility (Devourer Venom) – otherwise they won’t stun you and you are free like a butterfly.
2. Thieves need Utility (Haste) to be in “quickness” (and they loss their endurance and cant regen it for 4 seconds).

Edit: BTW, I’m not complaining about warriors HB, it’s last of my problems °-°

Yes but when it comes to comparing the warriors to the thieves, yes the first can manage to dish out way more dmg than thief can…. BUT there’s just no way they could actually land all the hits unless they are in pve, while the thief is simply better for that purpose, considering the effort required, the fact that they can setup before the fight, not during it, and the self-positioning-spammable skills.

I’m saying this ’coz I want ppl to really stop comparing those 2 as they are different worlds.

A glasscannon thief heartseeker can dish out a ton of damage with minimum effort, let’s say you crit just 6k, in 0.5s or so I don’t care… how much does a heal skill heal you and how often? also consider the cast-time.

I’m not saying that I want to be able to sustain such damage with just heals, I’m saying that I should at least be able to heal once, even just casting it and getting interrupted, that at least would seem fair.

Mosharn.8357

@Alistair

So you come at me telling me i dont know anything. Did the thought ever cross your mind that i would have changed builds. I started playing 2 days after game came out and hit 80 less than a week. So ive been testing loads of builds. So i do know what im talkin about and have ACTUALLY READ other ppls threads on this topic.

Wow you seem to know everything just because you have been “testing builds 2 days after the game came out” I think Anet should hire you as their test monkey since they don’t have anyone to test classes before they start nerfing.

I think once you get hired you should change your user name to Mr. 18k Backstab.

my post was meant for more experienced thief players. As they are the only ones who know how to get out of a bad situation fast. The nubs are dead in one whirl but an experienced thief uses stealth skill and spams with 5 skill on SB to get away which dosent mean you can catch them on any given class.

So your complaint is that you can only stomp over inexperienced thieves without using any skill, and experienced thieves are able to not kill, but only escape, a very bad warrior. Got it.

I do not use frenzy on my war. but in wvw takin a 18k hit is a death sentence because that 18k isnt the only amount of dmg you take. I have 22.2k hp so i know this.

And how do you think the thief feels? two people auto-attacking a thief will kill him. Hell, getting accidentally caught in an AoE aimed at someone else will kill him.

And endure has a CD near basilisks CD. Sure it counters it but you wont have it up all the time to count every single basilisk you get hit with which are many as finding a thief alone is hard since they usually run in groups of 2+.

And the thief won’t have basilisk available every time they run into someone. Maybe you should consider running in a group of 2+ as well? If you’re trying to solo PvP you’re bad.

Even if you do counter it with endure the thief will reset combo by using 5 skill on SB and comin right back at you with the combo without the venom and you have lost one or possibly 2 utilities by now and your rush/WW on CD while the thief has no CD since the skills are dependent on initiative.

And exactly how much initiative do you think the thief has? That 5 SB skill that they’re apparently spamming costs a whopping 6 initiative per use… That’s half the default initiative bar… CnD is another 6… And if they don’t have the venom, your options for dealing with the thief increase significantly.

Also no good war uses endure in traits its stupid long on CD and useless since you only buy your self 4 seconds in which your already dead.

No good war? I don’t think you’d know a good war if it came up and rubbed your bum. 4 seconds of invulnerability is long enough to kill 4 thieves. (or long enough for 4 thieves to kill you, if you’re not invulnerable)

So if warriors are as overpowered as thieves are, according to thieves in this thread about hopefully not nerfing thieves, Then why don’t I see a mountain of posts talking about how overpowered Warriors are vs thieves?

In fact why don’t I see countless posts by every other class in this game crying about every other class?

Why is it every other class seems to point to the thief and says “Well that class is overpowered”

Is it bias against you?….

maybe people just don’t understand how to play against the stealthing high burst classes with speed and teleports and that’s why that skillset is always nerfed in every single MMO it’s in….

Or Maybe..it’s because that skillset is always overpowered to hell and back.. and that is why it keeps getting nerfed.

I mean seriously…It’s been like 6 or 7 games now that have had crap like this, It always gets nerfed, and yet every time the people who play this type of class act surprised.

News flash mates, You’re this bastion of skill you think you are…The class is overpowered, The skillset it has is always overpowered, That is why it gets nerfed..

Stop rolling the bloody obvious overpowered skillset in every game and you won’t have to get nerfed.

Xsorus.2507:

So if warriors are as overpowered as thieves are, according to thieves in this thread about hopefully not nerfing thieves, Then why don’t I see a mountain of posts talking about how overpowered Warriors are vs thieves?

In fact why don’t I see countless posts by every other class in this game crying about every other class?

Why is it every other class seems to point to the thief and says “Well that class is overpowered”

Is it bias against you?….

maybe people just don’t understand how to play against the stealthing high burst classes with speed and teleports and that’s why that skillset is always nerfed in every single MMO it’s in….

Or Maybe..it’s because that skillset is always overpowered to hell and back.. and that is why it keeps getting nerfed.

I mean seriously…It’s been like 6 or 7 games now that have had crap like this, It always gets nerfed, and yet every time the people who play this type of class act surprised.

News flash mates, You’re this bastion of skill you think you are…The class is overpowered, The skillset it has is always overpowered, That is why it gets nerfed..

Stop rolling the bloody obvious overpowered skillset in every game and you won’t have to get nerfed.

I’ll point out yet again that in beta there was a consensus that the thief was underpowered. And that the thief has not received any major buffs since then. The only thing that’s changed is the number of people playing, the experience level of people playing, and the rendering issues. Oh, and multiple NERFS.

Oh, and to answer your question, it is a bias against stealth classes. People hate the enemy that they cannot see, even if it is just momentarily.

It’s also worth noting that the volume of demands for thief nerfs has drastically INCREASED after each thief nerf. Yeah that’s right, putting out a thief nerf results in more people wanting more thief nerfs. People cry for thief nerfs because they know arenanet will listen. And they don’t cry for warrior nerfs because they know arenanet has already made it clear that they won’t be nerfing warrior.

Because it was always like that. Good people play the game, bad people cry at rogues on forums. Never been other way in any mmo with official forums.
Edit: ill have to correct myself before anyone rages out at me. I don’t mind and actually am very happy with constructive report about overpowered things as well as broken ones. But seriously for most of complaints here, I can’t take anything seriously when those reports start with things that make me laugh. It makes me a bit uneasy and angry if some of fixes would be based on some of those.

Ichishi.9613:

Because it was always like that. Good people play the game, bad people cry at rogues on forums. Never been other way in any mmo with official forums.
Edit: ill have to correct myself before anyone rages out at me. I don’t mind and actually am very happy with constructive report about overpowered things as well as broken ones. But seriously for most of complaints here, I can’t take anything seriously when those reports start with things that make me laugh. It makes me a bit uneasy and angry if some of fixes would be based on some of those.

+1

Exactly what I would have said.

bwillb.2165:

my post was meant for more experienced thief players. As they are the only ones who know how to get out of a bad situation fast. The nubs are dead in one whirl but an experienced thief uses stealth skill and spams with 5 skill on SB to get away which dosent mean you can catch them on any given class.

So your complaint is that you can only stomp over inexperienced thieves without using any skill, and experienced thieves are able to not kill, but only escape, a very bad warrior. Got it.

I do not use frenzy on my war. but in wvw takin a 18k hit is a death sentence because that 18k isnt the only amount of dmg you take. I have 22.2k hp so i know this.

And how do you think the thief feels? two people auto-attacking a thief will kill him. Hell, getting accidentally caught in an AoE aimed at someone else will kill him.

And endure has a CD near basilisks CD. Sure it counters it but you wont have it up all the time to count every single basilisk you get hit with which are many as finding a thief alone is hard since they usually run in groups of 2+.

And the thief won’t have basilisk available every time they run into someone. Maybe you should consider running in a group of 2+ as well? If you’re trying to solo PvP you’re bad.

Even if you do counter it with endure the thief will reset combo by using 5 skill on SB and comin right back at you with the combo without the venom and you have lost one or possibly 2 utilities by now and your rush/WW on CD while the thief has no CD since the skills are dependent on initiative.

And exactly how much initiative do you think the thief has? That 5 SB skill that they’re apparently spamming costs a whopping 6 initiative per use… That’s half the default initiative bar… CnD is another 6… And if they don’t have the venom, your options for dealing with the thief increase significantly.

Also no good war uses endure in traits its stupid long on CD and useless since you only buy your self 4 seconds in which your already dead.

No good war? I don’t think you’d know a good war if it came up and rubbed your bum. 4 seconds of invulnerability is long enough to kill 4 thieves. (or long enough for 4 thieves to kill you, if you’re not invulnerable)

you should really check around other class forums so you know what sucks and what dosent. No thief with half a brain will go up against a war or any other class that has invincibility for a set time.

An experienced thief is a easy kill everyone knows this but since most ppl are thieves there is a high percentage of thieves who can move around pretty well and kill at the bunches. What im trying to say is thief has way too much mobility and they can use this mobility with loads of stealth so you wont see em coming and once they stealth after their combo fails they’re gone.

I havent complained once in all my posts so maybe you should get your ego out of here and actually discuss how to improve this class any 5 year old can pick up and kill someone in 3-4 keytaps.

Also you can use the 5 skill in SB 3 times with the extra init trait which most BS thieves have.

According to your reply your not here to discuss your just on a ego trip to be all high and mighty on the forums. Please use your brain to discuss or leave, thanks.

Ichishi.9613:

You listed 3 weapon sets, only two of which cant be at same time and both of them share same initiative pool. And shadowstep is an utility skill on a long cooldown.
I am full exotic zerk P/P thief with single defensive thing i have is my hide in shadows heal for quite some time now. And there was not even a single time I was one shot by anything or suffered instakill from a sole person. Where are you people coming from?

I listed 3 weapons so some smarty pants dosent say ‘’well what if i have sword?’’

Ichishi.9613:

Because it was always like that. Good people play the game, bad people cry at rogues on forums. Never been other way in any mmo with official forums.
Edit: ill have to correct myself before anyone rages out at me. I don’t mind and actually am very happy with constructive report about overpowered things as well as broken ones. But seriously for most of complaints here, I can’t take anything seriously when those reports start with things that make me laugh. It makes me a bit uneasy and angry if some of fixes would be based on some of those.

Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Needs maor discuss and less immature ego trip prideful babys.

btw thank you for being mature in your reply.

Aliatis.7836:

1. Thieves to immobilize need the Elite (Basilisk Venom) or an Utility (Devourer Venom) – otherwise they won’t stun you and you are free like a butterfly.
2. Thieves need Utility (Haste) to be in “quickness” (and they loss their endurance and cant regen it for 4 seconds).

You don’t need Quickness for the Backstab combo.

Mosharn.8357

Ichishi.9613:

Because it was always like that. Good people play the game, bad people cry at rogues on forums. Never been other way in any mmo with official forums.
Edit: ill have to correct myself before anyone rages out at me. I don’t mind and actually am very happy with constructive report about overpowered things as well as broken ones. But seriously for most of complaints here, I can’t take anything seriously when those reports start with things that make me laugh. It makes me a bit uneasy and angry if some of fixes would be based on some of those.

Mosharn.8357: Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Needs maor discuss and less immature ego trip prideful babys.

btw thank you for being mature in your reply.

Mosharn.8357: I know more than you do sir. You are just being ignorant. I do not want thieves to be destroyed as i like playing mines but i also dont want them to be the ‘’i win vs anyone in 3 seconds’’ class.

Alistair Cardozo.2560: So…you say you know more than him but correct me if I am wrong, you just told me (
Mosharn.8357 My first character was a thief btw. Condition built since i didnt want to join the instagib bandwagon.)

Well I don’t think your qualified enough to talk about “18k back stabs”

You should take Frozenluvs advice and quit embarrassing yourself.

Uhh yeah so who’s on an ego trip now?? Please scroll back. ( btw guys is there any way I can block this moron?)

@Alistair Cardozo

You should read what he said before that and i wasnt trying to be egotistic there i was basicly saying that i know what im talkin about and that he should stop trying to turn this into a conflict.

It’s people like you and Frozen who dont want constructive threads on issues that need to be resolved. You guys come running in and putting down others who are trying to help and trash talking them till they leave. Keep that in game please. These forums are to discuss things that need a fixing. They aren’t here for you to hate on people or call them names.

As you for blocking me i could not care less since im not here to talk kitten to other people.

DesertRose.2031:

Aliatis.7836:

1. Thieves to immobilize need the Elite (Basilisk Venom) or an Utility (Devourer Venom) – otherwise they won’t stun you and you are free like a butterfly.
2. Thieves need Utility (Haste) to be in “quickness” (and they loss their endurance and cant regen it for 4 seconds).

You don’t need Quickness for the Backstab combo.

I know, but I’ve answered at “warriors-need-an-entire-build-to-do-that-damage”, which means utility for quickness.

Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Thieves ARE balanced. You just want to be able to stomp over thieves as easily as you do every other class, o mighty warrior. I mean, your latest argument is basically: “Thieves are easy to kill but sometimes extremely skilled thieves can run away before I get a chance to obliterate them.”

bwillb.2165:

Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Thieves ARE balanced. You just want to be able to stomp over thieves as easily as you do every other class, o mighty warrior. I mean, your latest argument is basically: “Thieves are easy to kill but sometimes extremely skilled thieves can run away before I get a chance to obliterate them.”

Apparently they are NOT balanced…they’re being adjusted very soon, according to Anet, LOL. But all the pros in this thread will be fine, right? I mean, they’ll obviously adapt instead of relying on an OP crutch, right?

crewthief.8649:

bwillb.2165:

Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Thieves ARE balanced. You just want to be able to stomp over thieves as easily as you do every other class, o mighty warrior. I mean, your latest argument is basically: “Thieves are easy to kill but sometimes extremely skilled thieves can run away before I get a chance to obliterate them.”

Apparently they are NOT balanced…they’re being adjusted very soon, according to Anet, LOL. But all the pros in this thread will be fine, right? I mean, they’ll obviously adapt instead of relying on an OP crutch, right?

They’re being adjusted because the current arenanet is bad at balance. I mean, they think warriors are fine but thieves deserve hundreds of nerfs. come on. But yep, they’ll adapt. Until the bads that are whining for thief nerfs continue to whine for thief nerfs, anet gives in yet again, and eventually everything the thief has is 100% useless. Doesn’t matter how good you are, you can’t rip out someone’s heart with a sword made of cotton balls.

Hang on a second…so you’re saying they’re being nerfed because Anet is bad at balancing? Interesting theory. The best part is all these Thief players calling other players ‘bad’, LOL. I have noticed one common sentiment out of 90% of the PvP population in GW2, that i’ve run into (not Thief players mind you, obviously, lol), they feel the Thief is overpowered. ALL those people are incorrect and/or bad players??? really?

Most of the thief players i know admit they are very overpowered – and its one of the reasons so many have switched to them.

A nerf – a big one – would be most welcome by 90% of the community.

tagnut.8621:

Most of the thief players i know admit they are very overpowered – and its one of the reasons so many have switched to them.

A nerf – a big one – would be most welcome by 90% of the community.

A big nerf would only make things worse for the whole game, but I don’t think anet has the intention to ruin their game, they seem to have learned from other companies mistakes.

lonewolf.2601:

tagnut.8621:

Most of the thief players i know admit they are very overpowered – and its one of the reasons so many have switched to them.

A nerf – a big one – would be most welcome by 90% of the community.

Sorry but your friends do not how to play this game.
A big nerf would only make things worse for the whole game, but I don’t think anet has the intention to ruin their game, they seem to have learned from other companies mistakes.

Of course not. The only people who know how to play the game are Thief players, right? I know plenty of very good players, and most of them believe Thieves are due a nerf. Sorry to break it to you.

Break what? I don’t care if thieves get nerfed or anything. I am not a kid that will come here to cry if that happens. I will defend some points I know that are right though, when clueless people talk about a class that they haven’t played or don’t know how to counter.

If you think thieves should be nerfed because they are very good at 1vs1 then do it. But this game is mostly about massive battles, on which thieves are no problem at all.

Also, if you want this game to become wow-ish with weekly class revamps be my guest but I prefer to play the same class I started the game with. If something is wrong with balance, then it’s anets fault.

What is worse, people complaining about thieves, or thieves complaining about people complaining about thieves?

I see no such thing as an uncalled nerf. If anything I see a demanded nerf. Thiefs over powerness not only ruin the game for skilled players in other classes such as myself, but it ruins it for the thief themselves. Not only does your class gets a bad name thus making everyone think you are a n00b just by looking at you, similar to how I auto think every human ranger is a bot lol.

Last night I went into the hot join, ended fighting a group with 5 thiefs, all of the were #2 spammers well I think there was a back stabber there. The back stabber was rank 32, I went one on one on her and every single time won without effort, the other would come at me spam their #2 fail to kill me and complain that warriors are OP in the map chat. This creates an atmosphere where the thief is the kitten class. Similar to frost mage in WoW, no one can take you seriously until your class got it’s mechanics fixed and placed in the right spot.

you demand nerf for a thiefs that can’t do anything to you? or nerf for yourself?

You don’t realize though that most of thieves that use burst dps spec is because they enjoy playing alone, 1vs1 fights.

There is no way a good thief with that build would win against 2 other players that are equally good. No chance at all. So I wouldn’t call the class overpowered.

But still, if you joined this game for 1vs1 fights you are doing it wrong. I am sure if people focus on massive battles for example in wvw, or participate in a guild thieves wouldn’t be a problem since they would have support by other players.

Even if I go to a battle against 2 players, and down 1 of them, I can’t finish them if the other one immidiately heals them. Bad players would let their team mate die, and then they come here and shout that a thief killed them both…

i play a well rounded thief. some condition damage, some burst damage, some toughness. i play WvW pretty much exclusively. my armor score is slightly above 2500. i’ve come across many glass cannon thieves, and not a single one has hit me for the damage numbers people talk about. not a single one. which makes me think either people are thinking that their own glass cannon builds should have survivability, or they’re talking out of their backside and prefer to “whine to win”.

newsflash: glass cannon thieves are built for ambushes. that’s it. that’s ALL they can do. how to counter it? don’t wander around alone. don’t leave yourself open for the possibility of an ambush, and you won’t get ambushed. ta da! and, here’s the kicker, since there’s no persistent stealth, you can see them trying to hide behind a rock somewhere and actually target them to kill them. suddenly, the tables have turned. watch how fast they either die, or try to escape. and even if they escape, so what? you’re not dead. be happy that you’re not dead.

and mosharn, if you’re going to try to use numbers to support your stance, you should really make sure you have those numbers correct. so far, you have been consistently wrong about every number you’ve posted. that only serves to weaken your argument. infiltrator’s arrow, SB skill #5, costs 6 initiative. traited for extra initiative, thieves end up with 15 total initiative to work with. which means they can only use that twice, no matter how they’re built. at a 900 range, it doesn’t really amount to much distance while you’re moving. also, you’re backpedaling when confronted by facts, and changing your argument on the spot. if you’re going to take a stance, you should probably make sure you have the correct information, and make a rock solid argument. instead of moving the goal posts every time you’re proven to be incorrect.

crewthief.8649:

Hang on a second…so you’re saying they’re being nerfed because Anet is bad at balancing? Interesting theory. The best part is all these Thief players calling other players ‘bad’, LOL. I have noticed one common sentiment out of 90% of the PvP population in GW2, that i’ve run into (not Thief players mind you, obviously, lol), they feel the Thief is overpowered. ALL those people are incorrect and/or bad players??? really?

So what happened to Pistol Whip was good game balance?

I don’t think anyone is claiming how Thief is currently (buggy/broken rendering etc) is perfectly balanced. But its pretty kitten funny how many warriors/guardians complain about glass cannon backstab thieves when they’re the rock to that build’s scissors.

Also, people like to bring up “18k backstabs”. Is that even possible after signet nerf? It is kinda silly to complain about balance using numbers from pre-nerf abilities.

Glass cannon Thief currently is an extremely pubstomp build which suffers hugely vs skilled players, AKA the forums will be deluged with complaints until the build is completely obliterated.

lonewolf.2601:

Break what? I don’t care if thieves get nerfed or anything. I am not a kid that will come here to cry if that happens. I will defend some points I know that are right though, when clueless people talk about a class that they haven’t played or don’t know how to counter.

If you think thieves should be nerfed because they are very good at 1vs1 then do it. But this game is mostly about massive battles, on which thieves are no problem at all.

Also, if you want this game to become wow-ish with weekly class revamps be my guest but I prefer to play the same class I started the game with. If something is wrong with balance, then it’s anets fault.

I’m sorry, but balancing this game is not going to suddenly turn it into WoW, don’t be such a drama queen. I win way more than I lose versus Thieves (most of them being FoTM rerollers), but that isn’t the point. I can see from a mile away, that they’re a bit much. The survivability that they have through in-combat stealth, the superior mobility they possess…that, coupled with the burst damage that you’d expect from a stealther class, make them simply over-the-top. The only folks I see arguing to the contrary are Thief players. Honestly, what do you really give up for the amount of burst you get in a BS burst spec? Mobility? Nope. Survivability? Nope (you get stealth, and lots of it). And if you argue that stealth doesn’t equate to survivability, then I don’t know what to say. What defense is possibly better than your opponent NOT being able to see you? My problem with Thieves is NOT their amount of burst, I expect that from the class…my issue is the fact that you sacrifice nothing in order to attain it.

It’s not that they are balanced or not, it’s just that no other class can reach the same damage with the same effort thieves show, while by design Anet mentioned that every1 no matter what the class, should be able to build as they wish, say I want to build a glasscannon mesmer, or necro, or guardian, I’d NEVER be as effective/fast as thieves are, that’s when “balancing” counts. This ultimately ends into every glass-cannon being thieves… and that’s just wrong.

yertle.5837:

crewthief.8649:

Hang on a second…so you’re saying they’re being nerfed because Anet is bad at balancing? Interesting theory. The best part is all these Thief players calling other players ‘bad’, LOL. I have noticed one common sentiment out of 90% of the PvP population in GW2, that i’ve run into (not Thief players mind you, obviously, lol), they feel the Thief is overpowered. ALL those people are incorrect and/or bad players??? really?

So what happened to Pistol Whip was good game balance?

I don’t think anyone is claiming how Thief is currently (buggy/broken rendering etc) is perfectly balanced. But its pretty kitten funny how many warriors/guardians complain about glass cannon backstab thieves when they’re the rock to that build’s scissors.

Also, people like to bring up “18k backstabs”. Is that even possible after signet nerf? It is kinda silly to complain about balance using numbers from pre-nerf abilities.

Glass cannon Thief currently is an extremely pubstomp build which suffers hugely vs skilled players, AKA the forums will be deluged with complaints until the build is completely obliterated.

So…the only people that die to a glass cannon Thief are brand new and/or terrible at the game? You sure of that?

The only issue in this forum is one – simple as that:

People do not get that burst dps spec is for 1vs1 and for thieves that like to solo.
It has no use against more than 1 enemies or against a single skilled player.

Most people that argue with the above either want to always win on 1vs1 so they ask about nerfing the class, or they simply do not know how to play so they whine anyway.

I can actually prove this if you are willing to set up a fight and you are a skilled player. I am even willing to frap it and post a video of the fight here.

I’m really sick of seeing this tired argument that the BS build is ONLY good versus noobs/bads. Come on man, D/D Thieves are one of the most common roamers in tPvP for a reason.

Sorry that’s the truth, my proof is that I lost to every single class(except necro since I haven’t found a skilled one to fight yet) when they knew how to play. If you want this proof to be shown here in the forums we can arrange it.

I do have an issue with backstab glass cannon thieves. Just one. When they go down instantly from my glass cannon thief build, they become much more dangerous, annoying and harder to kill than those still running around. So I call for the downed state rebalancing for thief.

I agree with some posters, I don’t think thief damage needs to be decreased that much, because you’ll make it impossible for thieves to pve that way due to their low survivability in pve.

The problem is that toughness just doesn’t reduce enough damage, toughness is too weak. If you reduce toughness diminishing returns and increase toughness protection, you can make better hybrid builds where every point of toughness matters. Less people would go full glass cannon because it’s not worth getting any toughness, more people would get say, 400 toughness or so without going full bunker, and then they wouldn’t get instagibbed anymore.

But right now getting toughness means almost nothing, a thief will still burn you down real fast just with auto attacks even.

My suggestion is, leave thief damage alone for now, nerfing their damage will just prevent them from being able to pve anymore, but significantly increase toughness efficiency. Then we can put in some knight armor pieces into our gear to prevent getting instagibbed. Full bunker builds will get stronger, but considering they don’t do much damage at all I don’t see any problem with that. I rather have a fight drag out over a long time against a bunker, than get instagibbed by a thief or melted downed by a mesmer.

I mostly play WvW and I can tell you that as a D/D thief, you have both strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths:
- Strong in 1v1 or small team fights
- Good escapes and mobility
- Anti-glass cannon. I can kill glass cannon characters very quickly
- Strong opening burst, the initiative system lends itself to this.

Weaknesses:
- Larger fights. I sometimes find myself stealing to an enemy and getting downed very quickly from AOE
- AOE. Yes, good players abuse AOE when they see a thief and consequently, I may find myself on my back with almost no time to react.
- Tanky characters. I’ve played against tanky elementalists, engineers, guardians, and warriors that just destroy me. As soon as they see me disappear, they begin their AOE which takes more than half my health almost immediately. I’m forced to dodge away or die. Just to give you an idea of the difference a tanky build will do, I’ve hit for as high as 7k on my backstabs before (although thats actually pretty rare). Against a tankier engineer the other day, I bs for…2100. I have hidden killer and i’m sure that was from the back, so I essentially crit for that.
- Weak in prolonged combat. Whereas other classes refresh all their abilities cooldowns simultaneously, thieves refresh much more slowly once the initial burst is dealt.

One thing to keep in mind is that a D/D thief needs to have a very strong burst to be able to contribute significantly to a larger group vs group battle. He needs to be able to get in -> kill -> stealth finish -> get out.

I know that the above sucks for some, but without that, a D/D thief would be near useless in larger group fights. I’d have to switch over to CB, and lets face it, CB is not the reason people choose to play a thief.

All that said, I do admit that being hit for all your life before being able to react can be frustrating. I do think that the very high end dmg should be reduced, but it shouldn’t affect lower dmg specs who enjoy the backstab mechanic. As far as what we should get as a buff, I’d really like to see AOE dmg mitigation of some form. As players improve in their skill and builds, I’m finding that although this spec is powerful, it isn’t the god mode some people think it is.

> Designs class around high damage, low survivability
> Nerfs skills and damage repeatability
> Class becomes useless. Can role a warrior and do just as much (or more) damage with much higher survivability. Why play a class with mediocre damage AND low survivability?