Guild Wars 2

Post 6/23 patch, on the surface, and having not played the client build that is going to be deployed I see only one specialization setup being meta and only two trait variations off that setup.

Those are:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBqAXYA_g~
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBqAXYA-w~

The patch notes by the way:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes

This opinion is derived not because these two trait setups are too strong (Deadly Arts could result in some variation once live, because it has potential), it’s derived because these are the only two setups that have the potential to compete with the power creep introduced into other professions.

Critical Strikes and Acrobatics are severely lacking in terms of utility and/or potency compared to specializations across all the professions.

I won’t suggest adding more power creep to these specializations, but I will say that it will take heavy nerfs to Deadly Arts, Shadow Arts, or Trickery to push people away from those lines (again, just my opinion).

One other thing I’m expecting to happen, is that when nerfs to come out across the board to all professions, assuming nerfs happen simultaneously, because of the disparity in the quantity of quality specializations and traits across all professions (basically I’m trying to point out that thief has less meta level stuff than everything else, again my opinion), once shadow arts, trickery, and deadly arts receive nerfs it’ll probably be tough times for thieves. This is due to the potential that exists within more than 3 specializations of other professions.

Strictly due to quantities of quality avaiable to other professions, it’s likely they’ll have a much easier time enduring nerfs as they swap between the large number of options available. There may even be a time where thief is out performed in the mobile roamer role given the unknowns remaining with the expansion, and since mobile roamer is the only role thief can play in PvP, if it is ever noticeably outclassed in that role it effectively has no role in PvP.

I’m not saying these things will happen, I’m just saying they seem likely to happen given my past experiences and observations with the game. The goal here is simply to raise awareness for caution in the future.

Improvisation over Executioner? And i do think critical strikes will be another meta build over shadow arts.

Imo Improvisation is better than Executioner, because Withdraw is now a trick, so the recharge chance is now 80% (trick, signet, deception, venom) and against many classes the second use of the stolen item is it worth (Mesmer).

But I seriously doubt that SA will be the new Meta for PVP. DA, CS and Trickery is it imo.

Maybe we are lucky and the whole metagame shifts. Most ppl are trying to configure the class post patch for the pre patch meta.

I really really hope SA will go as the meta. Right now I also run SA and I can pump out a fair amount of damage (12 stacks of might after all). But people keep telling me it’s a noob build, even though I kittenes of all thieves around me.

Anyways if SA would become meta, we would finally have some good sustain which could help us heal up during a battle without having to run away all the time and wait for withdrawal to come up. (Which CD is higher now of course)

Vote me in for SA!

Strategist.6132:

I really really hope SA will go as the meta.

Personally, I don’t really care what is "meta’ and what isn’t. I just want builds to be effective. If the meta gets buffed along with everything else, great. If the meta gets nerfed, but everything else gets buffed, also fine with me. But if the meta remains the meta because it and everything else gets nerfed, that’s a terrible thing :-(

Improv is too RNG and shouldn’t exist imo. Your foe has no idea of your cooldowns and it can be too overpowered. Steal does enough things already anyway. Other time you dont get any effect out of the trait. just too random

a good player keeps you track of your cooldowns. and improvisation removes counterplay. It is the only trait that is gonna enable doubling up on heal…

And BTW engineer stolen items is worthless, please rescale damage to elixir gun’s acid bomb or completely rework it because its only useful against downed. by the time you cast it at someone who is immobilized +flying time they surely move away. Or if they stand in it for 1 sec they take 300dmg and a weak condition

SA? Kitten that. DA, CS and Trickery!
And ofcourse Acro for S/D sometimes

,If you people think arenanet will keep things that way , you are being delusional. Its obvious that 60606 thief build will be the most ridiculous overpowered crap that ever existed.

And think about that build being 66606 because they basically combined DA+ crit strikes together by putting executionner in there and removing stats from trait lines and adding extra stats to the PvP amulets instead.

You can expect heavy nerfs to DA for sure and SA because people QQ’ed about it for so long.

glock.6590:

,If you people think arenanet will keep things that way , you are being delusional. Its obvious that 60606 thief build will be the most ridiculous overpowered crap that ever existed.

And think about that build being 66606 because they basically combined DA+ crit strikes together by putting executionner in there and removing stats from trait lines and adding extra stats to the PvP amulets instead.

You can expect heavy nerfs to DA for sure and SA because people QQ’ed about it for so long.

SA won’t be meta because it can be counter built too easily with lock on and analyze. You could be locked out of a mechanic for too long. I’m not saying you’ll get killed by the engi, but 1/3 of your traits could be rendered useless. You can’t be locked out of CS or Acro.

Maugetarr.6823:

glock.6590:

,If you people think arenanet will keep things that way , you are being delusional. Its obvious that 60606 thief build will be the most ridiculous overpowered crap that ever existed.

And think about that build being 66606 because they basically combined DA+ crit strikes together by putting executionner in there and removing stats from trait lines and adding extra stats to the PvP amulets instead.

You can expect heavy nerfs to DA for sure and SA because people QQ’ed about it for so long.

SA won’t be meta because it can be counter built too easily with lock on and analyze. You could be locked out of a mechanic for too long. I’m not saying you’ll get killed by the engi, but 1/3 of your traits could be rendered useless. You can’t be locked out of CS or Acro.

The only reason it will be problematic its because engineers got buffed to a ridiculous level too. So if teams start running double engi it can be problematic but against everything else that build will be dominating.

And no crit strikes is not worth it anymore and acro got nerfed along with vigor across the board. SA will be the way to go.

And most engineers players said that lock on trait isint that good, they would lose too much utility/damage just to get a crappy trait to annoy thieves which they already counter anyway.. especially on point.

glock.6590:

Maugetarr.6823:

glock.6590:

,If you people think arenanet will keep things that way , you are being delusional. Its obvious that 60606 thief build will be the most ridiculous overpowered crap that ever existed.

And think about that build being 66606 because they basically combined DA+ crit strikes together by putting executionner in there and removing stats from trait lines and adding extra stats to the PvP amulets instead.

You can expect heavy nerfs to DA for sure and SA because people QQ’ed about it for so long.

SA won’t be meta because it can be counter built too easily with lock on and analyze. You could be locked out of a mechanic for too long. I’m not saying you’ll get killed by the engi, but 1/3 of your traits could be rendered useless. You can’t be locked out of CS or Acro.

The only reason it will be problematic its because engineers got buffed to a ridiculous level too. So if teams start running double engi it can be problematic but against everything else that build will be dominating.

And no crit strikes is not worth it anymore and acro got nerfed along with vigor across the board. SA will be the way to go.

And most engineers players said that lock on trait isint that good, they would lose too much utility/damage just to get a crappy trait to annoy thieves which they already counter anyway.. especially on point.

So why they got that trait? It will just get our kitten kicked into whatever in fights we already shouldn´t win. Not that its impossible to win against engis, I can win against most kind of engis with a lot of different builds. But here we talk about the same gameplay level. And there engis already are in advantage.
I wouldn´t say CS is THAT bad now. Some things they changed look very interesting compared to the things they demonstrated first.

Let us take these traits:
——-Minor – Keen Observer: Critical-hit chance is increased by 5% while your health is above the 90% threshold.
——Adept – Flawless Strike: Critical damage is increased by 7% when your health is above the 90% threshold.
——-Minor – Unrelenting Strikes: Gain fury for 4 seconds when striking a foe whose health is below 50% health. This effect has a 10 second internal cooldown.
——-Master – Practiced Tolerance: Gain ferocity based on your precision at a rate of 10%.
——Minor – Ferocious Strikes: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold.
——Grandmaster – No Quarter: Landing a critical hit while under the effect of fury extends the duration of fury by 2 seconds (this effect has a 2 second internal cooldown). Gain up to 250 ferocity (based on level) while under the effects of fury.

Let us take number we are sure about and optimal circumstances:
7% crit-damage from Flawless Strike
+11% from Practiced Tolerance (1000 base precision, 650 from zerker-amulet, amulet stats likely to be improved)
+10% from Ferocious Strikes
+16,666% from No Quarter (fury-access through Unrelenting Strikes and Thrill of the crime, better uptime through no quarter itself)
=44,6% crit-damage with a good uptime on fury.

I´m not sure what impact this will have overall, but I think thats a good base-point to start from.

Acrobatic seems very lackluster compared to other traitlines and buffs other classes got. Like I said before. Making Feline Grace like before, but just giving the endurance through a successful evade. Still giving the 50% improvement on vigor. Very important to dodge things. Improved vigor wouldn´t be that strong overall cause of just affecting vigorous recovery and bountiful theft. Or maybe changing it still.
Shadow´s Rejuvination just trigger when going into revealed with a fixed amount. Less stealth stacking and boring stealthing to recover cd´s. Rewarding aggressive gameplay and open chances for the enemy while revealed lasts.
If I´m not missing something that would be more balance than that crap we have right now. ^^