Guild Wars 2

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Umm no, taking away clones would be like taking away a trait line… just like the thief revealed for 30 seconds… weapon skills are entirely different… but well…

EpiChlo.4072:

swinsk.6410:

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

You could argue this with any mechanic. There are people who think Perma Stealth isn’t fun. Does this mean it should be removed. No.

niether is playin a class than cant take more than 2 good hits before running/quitting :P but we have that. so either nerf stealth and make us into warriors or nerf traps :P

Lighter.5631:

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

quite the contrary. if u ever played an evade thief that constantly or near constantly evades…their dmg is as bad as guardians and minus the boons. all the do is evade and hope that catrops can kill :P …… if u die to caltrops than just shouldnt have a discussion at all lol. caltrops is good but not going to win any fights by itself. you cant do dmg while evading…..and look at the evades (the damage evades)

death blossom : 1 sec of animation for a 1/4 sec evade
FS: 1.2 secs for .5 secs evade :P

the only great evade is roll for initiative (3/4 sec evade) 1 sec animation

out of all the evades in the thief arsenal…..only deathblossom can do any decent dmg and not enough/fast enough to matter. its a joke and a troll build.

Ruggan.4102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Umm no, taking away clones would be like taking away a trait line… just like the thief revealed for 30 seconds… weapon skills are entirely different… but well…

That is completely false. Mesmers are clone dependent, Thieves do not depend on their Stealth. It’s more or less taking away Distortion/Blurred Frenzy for 30 seconds, which still doesn’t bother me. Maybe you should l2p rather than live and breath Backstab Stealth monkery.

Travlane.5948:

Lighter.5631:

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

quite the contrary. if u ever played an evade thief that constantly or near constantly evades…their dmg is as bad as guardians and minus the boons. all the do is evade and hope that catrops can kill :P …… if u die to caltrops than just shouldnt have a discussion at all lol. caltrops is good but not going to win any fights by itself. you cant do dmg while evading…..and look at the evades (the damage evades)

death blossom : 1 sec of animation for a 1/4 sec evade
FS: 1.2 secs for .5 secs evade :P

the only great evade is roll for initiative (3/4 sec evade) 1 sec animation

out of all the evades in the thief arsenal…..only deathblossom can do any decent dmg and not enough/fast enough to matter. its a joke and a troll build.

S/D would like to have a word with you.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Travlane.5948:

Lighter.5631:

Ruggan.4102:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Yea, you can build a thief for constant evasion… well semi-constant… of course you sacrifice damage and other things for it… but to be serious… ok, so what you are saying here is simply this… build a thief so you can enter combat but all you will ever do unless you want to die is evade…. ooooh that sounds like sooooo much fun.

your logic is flawed

quite the contrary. if u ever played an evade thief that constantly or near constantly evades…their dmg is as bad as guardians and minus the boons. all the do is evade and hope that catrops can kill :P …… if u die to caltrops than just shouldnt have a discussion at all lol. caltrops is good but not going to win any fights by itself. you cant do dmg while evading…..and look at the evades (the damage evades)

death blossom : 1 sec of animation for a 1/4 sec evade
FS: 1.2 secs for .5 secs evade :P

the only great evade is roll for initiative (3/4 sec evade) 1 sec animation

out of all the evades in the thief arsenal…..only deathblossom can do any decent dmg and not enough/fast enough to matter. its a joke and a troll build.

S/D would like to have a word with you.

evade all you want :P wont kill me anyday. ive never lost to a s/d while in d/p. and i wont either :P at the extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeme worst case scnario is it is a draw….but s/d will run out of heals before i run out of invis.

Run out of… heals? D/P is basically survivability in a different way by whoring around with Invisibility and Blind. It’s essentially a 1v1 build, that loses in group fights when your stealth goes down hill.

It’s pretty annoying when you’re trying to take a camp and there’s one guy there spamming stealth traps…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Run out of… heals? D/P is basically survivability in a different way by whoring around with Invisibility and Blind. It’s essentially a 1v1 build, that loses in group fights when your stealth goes down hill.

fully 100% agree. although its more 1 v x than 1 v 1…..and def not a zerg v zerg build.

Nah, it’s pretty transparent that they want the EZ stealth mode and they don’t want to do what they have repeatedly told others to do. Adapt and L2p. What goes around, comes around and it is good to see it coming back around to them.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Ruggan.4102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Umm no, taking away clones would be like taking away a trait line… just like the thief revealed for 30 seconds… weapon skills are entirely different… but well…

That is completely false. Mesmers are clone dependent, Thieves do not depend on their Stealth. It’s more or less taking away Distortion/Blurred Frenzy for 30 seconds, which still doesn’t bother me. Maybe you should l2p rather than live and breath Backstab Stealth monkery.

You are wrong. Have you even read the entire thread?!

Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent. Taking it away is like giving that thief to the enemy. This trap renders an entire trait line completely useless, tell me that’s fair again and that thieves should l2p. Anet designed the thief to be dependent on stealth, so we should not need to switch build because a new patch are released…. I’ve played a stealth free thief and I hated it. I had much more survivability, but I just didn’t like it.

To make it fair we could just make a trap called class nerfer: taking away stealth from thieves, boons from guardians, death shroud or conditions from necromacers, clones and phantasms from mesmers, ranger pets, engineer tool belts, not able to change attunements for elementalists, and warrior flags and shouts. Fair right?

a class’s core mechanic should not ever be penalised, for any reason, end of that’s really all there is too it, hell i’m no thief but anyone can see this.

DrixTrix.7168:

a class’s core mechanic should not ever be penalised, for any reason, end of that’s really all there is too it, hell i’m no thief but anyone can see this.

Thank you

DrixTrix.7168:

a class’s core mechanic should not ever be penalised, for any reason, end of that’s really all there is too it, hell i’m no thief but anyone can see this.

ranger in dungeons? wasnt there a red post saying that they didnt want to give rangers a pet dodge because they’re good at open world pvp already

…. i know rangers can keep their pet alive in dungeons; but they most certainly are disadvantaged for having a pet

… or hell; you could penalise your own core mechanic by sending all those horrible death causing conditions to your poor kitty =D

EpiChlo.4072:

evilapprentice.6379:

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

And again, it’s not about the actual cost/application effectiveness of the trap, how well it can be used on thieves, and so on – I’m not a fan of Anet introducing any effect that effectively invalidates an entire traitline, some traits outside that line, multiple utilities, and more for any class.

If the trap were meant to solely target portal/veil bombs, it could have simply pulsed a 3s reveal every second for 10s in the same radius. 30s reveal is pretty clearly targeted at thieves caught in the trap.

TL:DR – You shouldn’t wants traps targeted at shutting down a huge chunk of a classes functionality, regardless how well you can play around it. Its lazy, kittenty, kitten poor design, and it’s only a matter of time before it’s used to kitten up your class, and this game in general. Furthermore, accepting the trap as is makes you a bad, lazy player – I don’t want to beat an Ele because I dropped a trap that locked him into his current attunement for 30s, I want to beat him because I outplayed him.

If you truthfully wanted to out play him, then you would enjoy this trap. It’s adding another mechanic that says hey, screw up and it could hurt you a bit, or hey this guy is standing in one spot for 10 seconds, maybe he’s dropping a trap. The trap isn’t a 1200 radius until you proc it. But besides that it doesnt shut off much but 3/8ths of your trait line(if you go 30 in shadow arts) If you can’t survive 30 seconds without 30 trait points then maybe you should take a break and get some practice.

The unadulterated idiocy contained herein is kittening astounding. There is no point in trying to converse with you. Have fun with your Iwin button – you’re obviously going to have need of it. When an S/D thief shreds you anyway, feel free to come request a trap that locks down dodge and evasion for 30s.

Some examples of equal idiocy
Truly skilled ele’s can win while staying in 1 attunement for 30s.
Truly skilled Mesmers can with without spawning clones or phantasms
and so on and so on…

Lol, I think we should make traps that disable each classes defense trait line for 30s then tell the “if you can’t live for 30s without it you should l2p” lol!

Actually Geiir,

“Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent” that statement is ‘Dead Wrong’

Ninjas BUILD FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent, Arenenet mixed Ninja mechanism and elements to thief.

Once again,

NINJA STEALTH
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

THIEF Designed for Steal
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1088048-Thief-Multiple-Designs-for-Steal

Last Note; Thiefs’ you call youself Assasins? Take this> Assassins GW1
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Interesting thing is that Guild Wars 1 Assasin weren’t “stealth dependent” and till this day, thiefs are no match to them, even with “stealth”; they can put thiefs stealth ‘to the dust’ with their Evasive Evasions skills.
Nor they weren’t “useless” without Evasions, yet they still managed to be a Deadly ‘class to reckon with’
;see thier other skills and mechanisms.

In conclusion, all indicates that Stealth doen’t belong to this class; it is a mixture of other classes designs and mechanism.

Therefore, I Encourage Arenenet to follow Asssasin gw1 model and ’Once And For All, Stripp Stealth Entirely From Thief class"

It is Time to adapt.

Or Follow the True Model of Thief class with Steal

One question to all the thieves who quit WvW or are threatening to quit the game: How many times have you actually stepped on an anti-stealth trap?

I was trolling three guys in JQ BL yesterday and killed a yak that they were trying to guard. One of them ran off and when he got back, I saw him crouch for a few seconds. Obviously, it was a stealth trap so I never came close to it. Upon killing the next yak that passed by, I decided to try stepping where he placed it just to see what the QQ is all about.

Did I die from being revealed? Nope. Between Infiltrator’s Strike+Shadow return, Shortbow 5, Shadow Step+Shadow Return, the defenders had no idea where I was headed.

My point is, although I play only about 2 hrs of WvW a day on my thief, I have never stepped on an anti-stealth trap. The time that I deliberately stepped on one, I still had all the tools in my utilities to juke the hell out of my opponents.

I hate playing my thief because its core mechanic rewards a no-skill player like me way too much. But come on guys, let’s be realistic here. There’s not even a 5% chance that you will step on a trap while playing WvW. If someone plants a trap for you then it’s your clue that you are over-staying in your roaming area and are proving too much of an irritation for them to even bother planting a trap.

This trap is bad for thieves, but I don’t share your tears. Why you would even bother buying new gear or changing your build or quitting WvW for the really small chance that you will be killable for 30 seconds is just a lot of QQ for me.

Boomslang.4352:

One question to all the thieves who quit WvW or are threatening to quit the game: How many times have you actually stepped on an anti-stealth trap?

I was trolling three guys in JQ BL yesterday and killed a yak that they were trying to guard. One of them ran off and when he got back, I saw him crouch for a few seconds. Obviously, it was a stealth trap so I never came close to it. Upon killing the next yak that passed by, I decided to try stepping where he placed it just to see what the QQ is all about.

Did I die from being revealed? Nope. Between Infiltrator’s Strike+Shadow return, Shortbow 5, Shadow Step+Shadow Return, the defenders had no idea where I was headed.

My point is, although I play only about 2 hrs of WvW a day on my thief, I have never stepped on an anti-stealth trap. The time that I deliberately stepped on one, I still had all the tools in my utilities to juke the hell out of my opponents.

I hate playing my thief because its core mechanic rewards a no-skill player like me way too much. But come on guys, let’s be realistic here. There’s not even a 5% chance that you will step on a trap while playing WvW. If someone plants a trap for you then it’s your clue that you are over-staying in your roaming area and are proving too much of an irritation for them to even bother planting a trap.

This trap is bad for thieves, but I don’t share your tears. Why you would even bother buying new gear or changing your build or quitting WvW for the really small chance that you will be killable for 30 seconds is just a lot of QQ for me.

And again, it’s not about the actual cost/application effectiveness of the trap, how well it can be used on thieves, and so on – I’m not a fan of Anet introducing any effect that effectively invalidates an entire traitline, some traits outside that line, multiple utilities, and more for any class.

If the trap were meant to solely target portal/veil bombs, it could have simply pulsed a 3s reveal every second for 10s in the same radius. 30s reveal is pretty clearly targeted at thieves caught in the trap.

TL:DR – You shouldn’t wants traps targeted at shutting down a huge chunk of a classes functionality, regardless how well you can play around it. Its lazy, kittenty, kitten poor design, and it’s only a matter of time before it’s used to kitten up your class, and this game in general. Furthermore, accepting the trap as is makes you a bad, lazy player – I don’t want to beat an Ele because I dropped a trap that locked him into his current attunement for 30s, I want to beat him because I outplayed him.

I’m just going to keep copy/pasting this until people realize it’s not so much about the effect of the trap as it is the message it sends, and the precedent it sets.

EpiChlo.4072:

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

One major thing that you are missing is that we have been adapting month after month and after wasting enough time to get enough gold to respec and regear, here come the stupid nerf bat forcing us to adapt again after all that time and money wasted.

Every month, all we do is adapt and change — when do we get to play the game using what we have after we adapted and regeared? Because as soon as we’re done with that, here comes another brain fart from Anet. None of the changes make sense and who ever comes up with these ideas should be put in a time out. It’s simply enough.

It’s easy for someone to troll and criticize all the complaints but all these complaints are legitimate against Anet’s oppressive nature. So I, like many other, chose to boycott WvW, so Anet can have fun there on their own.

If you enjoy that kind of environment, then good for you. But you don’t get to go here and tell us how we should play the game because as soon as this game starts dictating me how should I gear and should I trait, like WoW did in Cata, I’ll be the first to be out of here.

I already stop buying Gems from the Gem store to display my disapproval of Anet. Soon, very soon I’ll completely stop playing this game.

It’s a shame that I started with my Thief, spent so much time and gold on him, only to login to play my Guardian. What’s next? Anti-Virtue traps?

I’m more than okay with killing a class because they triggered a debuff trap. Thieves get a cheesy escape when they start getting their kitten handed to them? Then the rest of us get to laugh at them when they blunder into our trap. Welcome to the battlefield. I wouldn’t mind seeing abilities that force a reveal or can “track” stealth as well, because frankly, the traps don’t go far enough.

This thread seems out of this world for a guy like me who only logs in for WvW on a daily basis , cant say I saw any of these traps since they were implemented am I being that lucky ?

That’s probably because they still seem incredibly uncommon. As was asked, honestly, how many of you have even been hindered by one of these traps?

Burnfall.9573:

Actually Geiir,

“Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent” that statement is ‘Dead Wrong’

Ninjas BUILD FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent, Arenenet mixed Ninja mechanism and elements to thief.

Once again,

NINJA STEALTH
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

THIEF Designed for Steal
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1088048-Thief-Multiple-Designs-for-Steal

Last Note; Thiefs’ you call youself Assasins? Take this> Assassins GW1
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Interesting thing is that Guild Wars 1 Assasin weren’t “stealth dependent” and till this day, thiefs are no match to them, even with “stealth”; they can put thiefs stealth ‘to the dust’ with their Evasive Evasions skills.
Nor they weren’t “useless” without Evasions, yet they still managed to be a Deadly ‘class to reckon with’
;see thier other skills and mechanisms.

In conclusion, all indicates that Stealth doen’t belong to this class; it is a mixture of other classes designs and mechanism.

Therefore, I Encourage Arenenet to follow Asssasin gw1 model and ’Once And For All, Stripp Stealth Entirely From Thief class"

It is Time to adapt.

Or Follow the True Model of Thief class with Steal

dude…this is utterly horrible. i mean you really dont know much about thieves. really you dont :/ thieves are build around stealth. the ONLY thing the other trait lines can do that stealth doesnt is a intiative gains….and thats only like 2 options at that. stealth is our heals…or condi removals….our init regen……our init gains…….our health regen……our aoe blinds……or setup for attacks…..our escape…..our defense……..our speed buff (50%)…. i cna keep going on….all of these are basically soley part of stealth :P

offence.4726:

This thread seems out of this world for a guy like me who only logs in for WvW on a daily basis , cant say I saw any of these traps since they were implemented am I being that lucky ?

its not much. i used 2-3 per day of the stealth traps. they just are auto wins agains thieves…not that i ndeed them but i want them gone so showing how they can be abused.

Sil.4560:

That’s probably because they still seem incredibly uncommon. As was asked, honestly, how many of you have even been hindered by one of these traps?

its tough to say “well i dont see many used so its not affecting the game” when in reality IF THEY ARE used its more along the lines of “i lost 90% of my defense and healing and condi removal and blinds and speed and intiative regen and now im dead” type of thing. so yeah i get what u mean but once people start realizing they can use these while roaming if they see a thief coming for an automatic win…they will. sure it may not happen alot but its an “easy button” for people whent hey do use them.

Burnfall.9573:

Actually Geiir,

“Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent” that statement is ‘Dead Wrong’

Ninjas BUILD FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent, Arenenet mixed Ninja mechanism and elements to thief.

Once again,

NINJA STEALTH
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

THIEF Designed for Steal
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1088048-Thief-Multiple-Designs-for-Steal

Last Note; Thiefs’ you call youself Assasins? Take this> Assassins GW1
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Interesting thing is that Guild Wars 1 Assasin weren’t “stealth dependent” and till this day, thiefs are no match to them, even with “stealth”; they can put thiefs stealth ‘to the dust’ with their Evasive Evasions skills.
Nor they weren’t “useless” without Evasions, yet they still managed to be a Deadly ‘class to reckon with’
;see thier other skills and mechanisms.

In conclusion, all indicates that Stealth doen’t belong to this class; it is a mixture of other classes designs and mechanism.

Therefore, I Encourage Arenenet to follow Asssasin gw1 model and ’Once And For All, Stripp Stealth Entirely From Thief class"

It is Time to adapt.

Or Follow the True Model of Thief class with Steal

I have never said anything about thieves being assassins or ninjas -_- How can you even try to compare assassins from gw1 with thief?! They have two completely different designs. Anet DEISGNED THE THIEF TO RELY ON STEALTH! It’s not about wether we will lose or not, it’s about Anet releasing a trap that renders an entire trait line useless and affects a main mechanic of a professions. They should never do that.

On the other hand would I much rather have assassins as we had in GW1. Anet made a huge mistake putting stealth into this game, but they did and they have to stand for it or remove it completely. What they’re doing now is just intentionally kittening with us.

Do you think a ranger should need to adapt himself to survive without his pet if he’s specced into beast mastery? No. A guardian dependent on virtues should not get his entire trait line destroyed by a trap. That’s just stupid.

anet didnt make a huge mistake. this game is dumbed down too much from gw1. took most the creativity from the players so they can now focus on playing rather than building which makes a broader age range of players. this also killed combo builds which is bad and killed elitist groups for dungeons which is good. stealth is a combo build ….most other classes dont have skills that “mesh” with others so its realloy hard for them to keep up when thief have a true ebb and flow to their class(although some clunnky areas obviously)….guardian is prbabily the only other class that truely flows all traits skills with aegis/blocks and symbols.

Honestly I have gone through about 30 of them on my necro this weekend. I stopped 2 thieves from taking a camp couple of times by placing this trap. Once they can’t stealth, load them up with bleeds and kick back. To put it in perspective, I’m a horrible Necro out side of a zerg, I’m built for group support and really no single target damage. To 1 thief I should be a free kill, but taking on 2?

I’m not complaining about the trap as I have yet to have one used on me. So I’m assuming people just aren’t interested in it yet, but for those that have been using it regularly know its broken. My suggestion is don’t boycott it! Use this trap as much as you can, abuse it to no end! Once half the thief player base is taken out of commission because of this trap then anet will be forced to make a change.

@zikory im abusing the heck out of em and yeah ur right. i wonder if anet can see the class population…like how much of each class is played in wvw or spvp etc.

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

jportell.2197:

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

you are 100% rright….but confusion was pretty broken. more so than mug :P .

Travlane.5948:

jportell.2197:

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

you are 100% rright….but confusion was pretty broken. more so than mug :P .

But the two nerfs made it completely broken but in the opposite direction. Now mesmers have absolutely no reliable condition damage. It was over done… Anet needs to revert it some what. FYI I’m not a fan of these stealth traps. but it doesn’t kill thief builds completely.

jportell.2197:

swinsk.6410:

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

This is how mesmers felt about the confusion nerf in WvW… it’s annoying because there are still NPC’s that we have to try and wear down. It destroyed a build for us completely. We feel absolutely useless thanks to the massive confusion nerf.

The confusion nerf was a lot like the revealed nerf for thieves. For thieves a lot of people were running D/D, once the nerf hit thieves went D/P and opened up a whole different can of worms. A lot like the Confusion nerf (which I don’t fully agree with) it force mesmers to run power builds and some of them are quite nasty.

Edit: You’re right it doesn’t kill any builds, unless you run over one then the top 2 most played thief builds are rendered sprinters builds for 30s.

yes . it killes like 3 -4 builds almost completely. only evade builds can survive. all other builds have atleast 20 in shadow arts.

also mesmer has the best burst/dmg in game. and they have invis…teleports and clones and phantasms. they have a plethora of resources/options. thieves only have 2nd or 3rd best dmg and stealth…..take away stealth is like taking away all clones/mesmers. how long do u think a memser will last without those? and the analagy/comparison is perfect. its literally like taking away all clones/phants for 30 secs. mesmer has no chance or survival .

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

Zikory.6871:

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

Or they could just remove the stealth trap completely. Stealthing a zerg took a lot of coordination and it only lasted for 4-5s at a time. They essentially just punished team work. The same thing with the confusion nerf. It punished mesmers that put a lot of time and effort into making an ideal confusion build. And then it gave a buff to bad players that are button mashers.

The poison field on the shortbow is pretty shweet too. It can cause AOE weakness too!

jportell.2197:

Zikory.6871:

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

Or they could just remove the stealth trap completely. Stealthing a zerg took a lot of coordination and it only lasted for 4-5s at a time. They essentially just punished team work. The same thing with the confusion nerf. It punished mesmers that put a lot of time and effort into making an ideal confusion build. And then it gave a buff to bad players that are button mashers.

The poison field on the shortbow is pretty shweet too. It can cause AOE weakness too!

For thieves stealthing a zerg is unreasonable, I think the going argument was a nerf to veil. Really though, If you see the veil coming there is no need for the trap as you know where they are going to be and if you don’t see it coming the trap wasn’t going to help you in the first place. I do see a lot more mesmers around lately, maybe the after nerf shock is wearing off.

Shortbow is all around very good but other then the on call blast finisher its very lacking compared to what other classes can do. Also If you get into some of the bigger fights, you would be lucky to get both skills off fast enough to get the combo. Nerf skill lag, It to OP.

Zikory.6871:

jportell.2197:

Zikory.6871:

jportell.2197:

Well the stealth traps aren’t everywhere you dont have to act like you are walking in hot lava. I go into wvw for 2-3 hrs a day in tier two on my thief and I have yet to suffer from this trap solo and with huge zergs in EB. The stealth traps are if you happen to cross them the confusion nerf is determined once you enter WvW. Also thieves can still contribute to zerg fights thanks to SB AOE. Mesmers could only really contribute through the confusion glam build (our only AOE). Phantasm and shatter are great dueling builds but terrible in zergs. And i mean terrible. All clones and phantasms die immediately thanks to AOE.

Other then the blast finisher of the short bow, I think confusion builds do much more damage in zerg fights still. Not saying the damage is good but better than.

But your right about the trap, the QQ is a overreaction. The trap doesn’t not 100% directly nerf thieves as thieves are fine if they don’t hit the trap. Problem is they have a chance to hit this trap (no matter how small that chance is) to be taken out of any fight. The trap is broken at 30s revealed. They should lower it to 5s-10s or make it like shadow refuge and last 30s and pluse 3s revealed every 1s while your in it, stacking to 10s-15s.

Or they could just remove the stealth trap completely. Stealthing a zerg took a lot of coordination and it only lasted for 4-5s at a time. They essentially just punished team work. The same thing with the confusion nerf. It punished mesmers that put a lot of time and effort into making an ideal confusion build. And then it gave a buff to bad players that are button mashers.

The poison field on the shortbow is pretty shweet too. It can cause AOE weakness too!

For thieves stealthing a zerg is unreasonable, I think the going argument was a nerf to veil. Really though, If you see the veil coming there is no need for the trap as you know where they are going to be and if you don’t see it coming the trap wasn’t going to help you in the first place. I do see a lot more mesmers around lately, maybe the after nerf shock is wearing off.

Shortbow is all around very good but other then the on call blast finisher its very lacking compared to what other classes can do. Also If you get into some of the bigger fights, you would be lucky to get both skills off fast enough to get the combo. Nerf skill lag, It to OP.

The on call blast finisher is AMAZING… the next best thing is guardian hammer 2 which is on a CD. Trick shot also helps for tags…. yeah the bigger fights it comes down to… Who can mash the buttons fastest then see who did it fast enough to live lol. Skill lag is ridiculous though. And mesmers are starting to pop back up because they grinded enough gear to be useful in some sense. Usually small skirmishes only though.

So I roam in WvW and still haven’t encountered one of these things.

I’m really not seeing this as a big deal, I know it’ll suck when I do trip up on one but as it stands I think this trap is a non-issue, and probably a waste of resources for the guy who buys it, only to have it tripped by a non-cloaking class (which I can imagine happens often).

Necrochild.1497:

So I roam in WvW and still haven’t encountered one of these things.

I’m really not seeing this as a big deal, I know it’ll suck when I do trip up on one but as it stands I think this trap is a non-issue, and probably a waste of resources for the guy who buys it, only to have it tripped by a non-cloaking class (which I can imagine happens often).

Your on point! Thing is unlike the supply trap, best use for it is to place it when needed. Personally I’v gone through a lot of traps, both supply and stealth, and so far I rarely set and forget them. So far I’v used them very situational, either tailing a zerg or roaming in thief infested areas. Respectively of course.

Necrochild.1497:

So I roam in WvW and still haven’t encountered one of these things.

I’m really not seeing this as a big deal, I know it’ll suck when I do trip up on one but as it stands I think this trap is a non-issue, and probably a waste of resources for the guy who buys it, only to have it tripped by a non-cloaking class (which I can imagine happens often).

lets be real…the only practicall use is for using against roaming thieves. if veil is never a problem….cool or annoying? sure but not like omg they used veil EVERYONE WATCH WE GONNA DIE! no no no. its devastating against roaming thieves only from what i use / see. i have been demolishing thieves with thiese….just demolishing them. that said… its a diff game on supply traps. those are zerg effective. 2 thieves can utterly stop a whole zerg from sieging anywhere.

Zikory.6871:

Once half the thief player base is taken out of commission because of this trap then anet will be forced to make a change.

What if that’s the underlying reason for all these stupidity and save you badges, karma and time?

Then you just wasted your badge, karma and time to some cause that lead to the same result — mass exodus of thieves from WvW.

Why not just boycott it already?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zikory.6871:

Once half the thief player base is taken out of commission because of this trap then anet will be forced to make a change.

What if that’s the underlying reason for all these stupidity?

Then you just wasted your badge, karma and time to some cause that lead to the same result — mass exodus of thieves from WvW.

Why not just boycott it already?

I wouldn’t go as far and say wasted. Badges and karma? What ever…anet finally gave me something to unload some of my stock. Also Entertainment, I have have a blast using these traps. Its been fun placing them, then using myself as bait to lure thieves into the trap.

IMO they made a mistake implementing these traps, I plan to take full advantage of them till something is done. Kinda similar to AC’s, They were/are broken but that won’t stop people from putting 6 of them down at every door.

Zikory.6871:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zikory.6871:

Once half the thief player base is taken out of commission because of this trap then anet will be forced to make a change.

What if that’s the underlying reason for all these stupidity?

Then you just wasted your badge, karma and time to some cause that lead to the same result — mass exodus of thieves from WvW.

Why not just boycott it already?

I wouldn’t go as far and say wasted. Badges and karma? What ever…anet finally gave me something to unload some of my stock. Also Entertainment, I have have a blast using these traps. Its been fun placing them, then using myself as bait to lure thieves into the trap.

IMO they made a mistake implementing these traps, I plan to take full advantage of them till something is done. Kinda similar to AC’s, They were/are broken but that won’t stop people from putting 6 of them down at every door.

exactly. with stealth traps….less than 20 thieves can defend an entire map. yes ….they can. if they are decent thieves !

ok, I do see both sides of this argument.

1 i undestand that noone wants to have to regear, because of a nerf. my main ia a mesmer and was glam build until the huge nerf destroyed that entire build and with it the whole collected rabit gear and ascended gear i’ve collected turned into dust. even my abyssal scepter counts as viable anymore. I had to use up a huge junk of my gold and badges to regear and i wish that to no other class or build to happen. As much as i disslike permastealth thieves..they made a choice for that kind of gameplay and should be allowed to, but other classes should have a chance to counter it in some way.

2 stealth traps can be avoided and do not destroy that build.

3 the problem is, that a lot of skills and utilities, do not work without a target and a permastealthed thief is hard to counter without AOE. now that confusion has been nerfed into oblivion and even retaliation has taken a hit, a lot of counters to a crit hit through permastealth thief have been taken away.

4 if classes would have an opportunity to counter there wouldn’t be this mass nerf cry towards thieves all over. so, I’d say fix other classes instead of mass nerfing as 1 nerf causes unbalance and another class will need a nerf after that and then another to another class after that…etc

Geiir.7603:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Ruggan.4102:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Umm no, taking away clones would be like taking away a trait line… just like the thief revealed for 30 seconds… weapon skills are entirely different… but well…

That is completely false. Mesmers are clone dependent, Thieves do not depend on their Stealth. It’s more or less taking away Distortion/Blurred Frenzy for 30 seconds, which still doesn’t bother me. Maybe you should l2p rather than live and breath Backstab Stealth monkery.

You are wrong. Have you even read the entire thread?!

Thieves BUILT FOR STEALTH are stealth dependent. Taking it away is like giving that thief to the enemy. This trap renders an entire trait line completely useless, tell me that’s fair again and that thieves should l2p. Anet designed the thief to be dependent on stealth, so we should not need to switch build because a new patch are released…. I’ve played a stealth free thief and I hated it. I had much more survivability, but I just didn’t like it.

To make it fair we could just make a trap called class nerfer: taking away stealth from thieves, boons from guardians, death shroud or conditions from necromacers, clones and phantasms from mesmers, ranger pets, engineer tool belts, not able to change attunements for elementalists, and warrior flags and shouts. Fair right?

There already are hard counters for every class except Thief. Thief has no hard counter because they can stealth or teleport away out of any danger. Guardians have their boons eaten by Necromancers, Mesmers are destroyed by Guardian AoE and mediation, Warriors are just eaten alive anyway.

I wouldn’t mind seeing even more done against Thief, they’re not even supposed to be in a zerg, so it shouldn’t bother you. If you don’t like having your enormously OP advantage removed for 30 seconds, make a new build and get over it.