Guild Wars 2

Just came back to the game and encounter a trapper thief. Are we all completely OK with this? Balanced and working as intended?

Closest thing I can find to my experience tonight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMSjRMya2CQ

Yes, we are in fact okay with it. It’s an interesting build and probably the only positive thing to come out of the June trait revamp for Thieves, but it’s nowhere near impossible to deal with. The Thief profession is also in a really rough spot right now, with people who don’t play it or know anything about it constantly coming into our subforum to complain about us being “overpowered” while also gloating and telling us we deserve to be underpowered (because apparently you can be weak and OP at the exact same time).

A better tack might be to ask how to best deal with the build, as it does have a lot of limitations. I assume you encountered it in WvW, because a central component of a Trap build is Trapper runes, and like several other rune sets they aren’t available in SPvP at all.

On that note, might I suggest playing SPvP instead of WvW if “balance” is what you truly seek? WvW isn’t meant to be as balanced and tightly regulated in the same way that SPvP is, so it would be a mistake to hold the two modes to the same standard.

Why are you just standing there and what are you trying to do?

I am not fine with it because that means the traps will permanently suck without those runes but it’s definitely not OP.

OK. Well we had 3x of these thieves tonight. Must be a serious L2P issue on my part

Trapper thieves are only a problem if you stand still twiddling your thumbs. Most won’t come out of stealth to apply extra pressure so you either get a burst off quick or just walk away.

ionix.9054:

OK. Well we had 3x of these thieves tonight. Must be a serious L2P issue on my part

The reason you see this sort of thing a lot is because there are very few functional Thief builds anymore.

Couple weeks ago, a Perma-Stealth Thief had prevented us- about 10 players from taking a supply camp. Some of us thought it was a hacker until the thief was killed by another Perma Stealth Thief from our party. The Thief who killed the enemy thief said that the thief was a trapper thief.

It only took about 3 minutes for the trapper thief to kill 9 of us until it was finally killed by our trapper thief.

Slowmelt: i agree with you 100%. So that is why i no longer blame thief players for being toxic to the game. I don’t even blame thief players for being responsible for the game losing sales and players leaving anymore.

Thief players are not the one who design or program themselves with very limited builds. It is Arena net who is responsible for refusing to give them diversity builds with skill play

Last, again, the only solution to make Thief profession be diverse and be skill-play is for the game to have a New Team with a New Leader who believe in challenge, risk-reward, hard-work, effort, skill-play and fun for their professions.

That is all.

DarkSyze.8627:

Couple weeks ago, a Perma-Stealth Thief had prevented us- about 10 players from taking a supply camp. Some of us thought it was a hacker until the thief was killed by another Perma Stealth Thief from our party. The Thief who killed the enemy thief said that the thief was a trapper thief.

It only took about 3 minutes for the trapper thief to kill 9 of us until it was finally killed by our trapper thief.

Slowmelt: i agree with you 100%. So that is why i no longer blame thief players for being toxic to the game. I don’t even blame thief players for being responsible for the game losing sales and players leaving anymore.

Thief players are not the one who design or program themselves with very limited builds. It is Arena net who is responsible for refusing to give them diversity builds with skill play

Last, again, the only solution to make Thief profession be diverse and be skill-play is for the game to have a New Team with a New Leader who believe in challenge, risk-reward, hard-work, effort, skill-play and fun for their professions.

That is all.

This is either a blatant lie or the best comedy gold gameplay ever done in GW2

One trapper thief killed nine of you? You all either suck or you’re lying/exaggerating. (I’d admit to the second one if I were you)

uglydan.1638:

One trapper thief killed nine of you? You all either suck or you’re lying/exaggerating. (I’d admit to the second one if I were you)

Two Ghost Thieves vs 6 – 10 Players at Splendans

Albeit takes longer than 3 minutes for Two of us.

meepeY.2867:

uglydan.1638:

One trapper thief killed nine of you? You all either suck or you’re lying/exaggerating. (I’d admit to the second one if I were you)

Two Ghost Thieves vs 6 – 10 Players at Splendans

Albeit takes longer than 3 minutes for Two of us.

That is like it was last night. Except there were 3 of them against a large group of us. People died without seeing a thief.

I’ll restate that.

People died, without seeing any of the thieves.

It seems d/p outshines even p/d in condition play lulz. I would have just left(don’t just stay waiting for death) as soon as I knew it was trap thief and coordination wasn’t made fast enough. Don’t nerf the runes nothing like this is possible with d/d or p/d.The thieves seem to be having fun at least.

ionix.9054:

People died, without seeing any of the thieves.

ANet should definitely nerf the runes so Thieves go back to having ONE viable build.

Sweetmate.5903:

ionix.9054:

People died, without seeing any of the thieves.

ANet should definitely nerf the runes so Thieves go back to having ONE viable build.

Some people died without even seeing an enemy. I thought hax was going on when I first saw this lol. Commmmooonnnnn dude….

Last time I saw something like this was back in the culling days ( *whistles * )

I haven’t seen a thread of you complaining how Mesmers can burst you down coming out from Stealth in 1/2 a second but I’m sure you didn’t think of it as hax. Yet a a Thief – easily counterable by stealth detection – that jumps around leaving caltrops and a trap every 20 seconds is definitely OP and hax.

The bias and hate towards Thief is simply unbelievable.

To players :
Keep moving and step into black powder circles (pay attention to these traps’ animations on the ground), and act some “Sic’EM”, “Lock ON” …trappers dead.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
To Devs :
Change stealth stats come from this rune into another form (differ from teefs’ , just like mesmers’ stealth), teefs can’t stack stealth by using it ; and rangers can still using it as before, problem solved.

PS. Daredevil sucks, Karl u lost the first round LOL.

I ran into a Trapper thief while trying to take a supply camp in WvW a while back. It was myself and a guardian, and sure enough the thief was staying in stealth most of the time and laying down the traps and caltrops and other assorted nasty things. We landed some hits here and there, but it was an uphill battle.

I finally thought outside the box a bit and stealthed myself so I could use the Shortbow stealth attack when he popped into sight at one point, and that brief Immobilize was all it took to land a burst on him and down him. It only worked because he’d just used Withdraw beforehand to heal a bit and drop the extra trap/stealth, but that particular Thief build has limited condi cleanse, with how Shadow’s Embrace was nerfed. Immobilize or hard CCs will give you a dead thief.

And this is different than running into 3 PU condi mesmers?

uglydan.1638:

And this is different than running into 3 PU condi mesmers?

Yes it is. Against 3mesmers you will die a lot faster.

If people don’t run into the traps, teefs can do nothing, pu condi mez win.
But, if there are some cute guys keep running into traps, teef win.

I remember seeing the youtube clip the OP posted. The guy that posted it to youtube was mocked for thinking it was two thieves and just how bad he was against the build.

uglydan.1638:

And this is different than running into 3 PU condi mesmers?

Not really sure how this is related to my original post…

ionix.9054:

uglydan.1638:

And this is different than running into 3 PU condi mesmers?

Not really sure how this is related to my original post…

He was just drawing a comparison.

Why was he doing that? Because 90% of the non-thief posts on the thief boards are there to kitten about thieves. I’m not accusing you of such, just explaining the reality.

You see, this looks exactly like a “Thinly veiled nerf post”. Someone will come in “asking” how to deal with a certain thief spec. When said thieves are (mostly) constructive and offer advice, said person and other like-minded individuals will continually shoot down all advice as not viable. They’ll “Come to the conclusion” (ie, blatantly say what they meant to say when they first posted the thread) that thief is OP and in need of a nerf. It’s a pretty common method of kittening here on the thief forums, and after being helpful and accommodating so many times, most long time thief players come to just assume posts like these are intended to whine rather than actually learn anything. Seeing as thief is in a particularly terrible spot in PvP right now (the only thing keeping us slightly above Ranger at rock bottom is SBow 5), it’s particularly grating on the nerves.

Sorry if that wasn’t the case for you.

OK, Summary:
- Thief community thinks it’s OK. It is well balanced. Nothing should be changed.
- If I want more balance I should get out of wvwvw and go to spvp
- Entirely a L2P issue on my part. W/ more experience I should be able to beat them no prob
- Mesmers came up a few times for some reason
- The guy who uploaded the video was mocked for being bad.

Thanks for the responses!

Reading comprehension obviously isn’t a strong suit with you.

Because I’m in a rush for now, I’ll give you two things that can kill a trapper Thief.

1. Stealth Trap
2. Stun

No and no. Stealth detection just means he ports away and resets. Stun is even worse, one stunbreak and he’s gone. And good luck stunning something you can’t see, ever.

Completely toxic and, if played well (which is ridiculously easy), there is no counterplay.

That being said, you shouldn’t die to one. Although two is a different story.

Still, this is worse then what thieves were back when we had culling, because apparently, Anet is fine with this.

ionix.9054:

OK, Summary:
- Thief community thinks it’s OK. It is well balanced. Nothing should be changed.
- If I want more balance I should get out of wvwvw and go to spvp
- Entirely a L2P issue on my part. W/ more experience I should be able to beat them no prob
- Mesmers came up a few times for some reason
- The guy who uploaded the video was mocked for being bad.

Thanks for the responses!

The first tell is “with L2P I should be able to beat them no prob”. No… any class vs another should depend upon ability/skill of players.
Case in point – I run a trapper condi thief – and usually people die. However, a ranger beat me. Significantly. Why? Because they were better and worked out a strategy.

Traps only work if you walk into them. They only work if you don’t bother condi cleansing (i’ve seen a guardian at near death after walking into a trap… probably thought no-one was there, but EASY kill because they just tried to wait the condi’s out).

The ranger interrupted me a treat, used taunt, used sic em etc.

Most players haven’t got a strategy. Most players don’t know what to do. So no, it shouldn’t be “L2P and it’s easy” – it’s “Work out how to counter and then try”.

Just because you lose to something doesn’t mean it needs nerfing. I only win against Ele’s when I attack them with pre-laid traps and they fail to start condi cleansing. That’s usually the first mistake “I’ll wait the condi out”. Great idea… you die.

Cygnus.6903:

No and no. Stealth detection just means he ports away and resets. Stun is even worse, one stunbreak and he’s gone. And good luck stunning something you can’t see, ever.

Completely toxic and, if played well (which is ridiculously easy), there is no counterplay.

How many stun breaks does a trapper build carry? If he’s running Acro, then he’s given up damage or sustainability. When your trap reveals him, stun him. If he is able to port out, then he has prepared beforehand as a smart Thief should.

Killing a player then watching him revive and come back to fight is just another version of “resetting.” The same result is achieved.

Taking away his stealth is the counterplay. Without it, his wisest move is to disengage. If he stays, kill him. If he runs away, either maintain pressure or go in the opposite direction and find a more favorable situation (allies, friendly AI, inside a gate, etc.). Or go bring your Elementalist with Diamond Skin so you can just laugh at the Thief all day long.

I’m just really tired of every patch thieves getting nerfed and never once anything good comes to thieves. I dont play trapper thief, but let’s just nerf it, nerf stealth duration, nerf thief dmg, nerf thief survivability, nerf thief’s stealth condi clear, nerf the rest of thieves barely there condi clear (like seriously all of the traits for removing condi clear only removes specific condi… I don’t think there are any traits besides Shadow’s embrace that saids remove torment or confusion O.O), make reveal longer for thieves, if you attack a thief and hit him in stealth they get instantly revealed for 30 seconds. But now we have to change the class description in character creation, this is the new description: “Waste of character space”.

hahahahaah OH man i missed that video so much. Thank you for bringing this, I think the original OP of this video took it out of his channel because the comments weren’t in his satisfaction. I remember posting this vid on the forums cause it was too funny to watch.

On serious note, the problem wasn’t the OP thief, it was that clueless Guardian and an average warrior. Thief played really well and took advantage of the terrible lack of response to kill both of them. (This video doesn’t go all the way to the end.)

The Thief had D/P + P/D – Shadow refuge, Caltrops and Needle traps with Thieves Guild (not shown in the vid.)

Access to stealth
With the D/P + P/D synergy, stealth is there, but it can be quite costly in combat.
Needle Trap is on a 24 sec CD,
and those players made it EAAASSY for a Cloak Dagger (mostly how to remained concealed for so long.)

The description from that video is completely flawed, biased af and misleading, the Thief isn’t rocking Blinding powder.

Trapper Thief is a great build. It is OK. Reinforever made a real hype out of this, and it was really fun. Unfortunately, this build will go extinct when HoT releases.

Ps: we need to meet that Thief, he is getting infamous for his nice display to skill lol.

It really is just a L2P issue seriously. Thieves are already in the ground with nerfs and viable builds.

I think it’s just a lack of knowledge, whenever I come across a full perma stealth trapper thief and im in a group I tell everyone what it is straight away. If you think it’s nothing then you aren’t going to cleanse true, that’s why more people need to be informed.

I was running to a zerg on my staff ele that is in full zerker gear and a trapper thief thought I was an easy target. I just kept running as he tried desperately to stop me with traps and caltrops. Even when he realised he had to apply additional pressure he was obv in dire gear so his attacks hit like nothing. I just kept running on through.

Shinjiko.1352:

I was running to a zerg on my staff ele that is in full zerker gear and a trapper thief thought I was an easy target. I just kept running as he tried desperately to stop me with traps and caltrops. Even when he realised he had to apply additional pressure he was obv in dire gear so his attacks hit like nothing. I just kept running on through.

Sounds like a really bad Ghost Thief to me ^^.

Gotta pace it all out, if you miss Trap #1 then don’t even both wasting more traps ‘cause you ain’t gonna land ’em.

Smart positioning also will help land traps. Stand sideways, steal and the Trap is placed lengthways towards the target so they get trapped if they’re moving directly away. Little things like that really do go a long way.

Can someone post this trapper build by any chance?

Sounds like fun!

It’s not OK, but it’s not thief, it’s trapper rune.

The rune allows for more than a perma stealth build. It allows other types of builds. P/D can setup a burst with extra pressure of traps on the floor. D/P can do the same to setup a backstab etc. Would you just prefer everyone plays the same predictable D/P build?

Just because the new bandwagon is to be perma stealth trapper (and all bad ones). Doesn’t mean we have to nerf them into the ground. It also gives rangers that much needed extra survival (even though it doesn’t stealth their pets.)

To the guy saying they weren’t good against my ele. All the trapper thieves I’ve fought are all awful :P. It’s the one flaw of the build where they refuse to apply more pressure. I’ll just cleanse your bleeds etc. Most ele’s run 3 cantrip stunbreaks so hard to pin them down with traps. My theif runs withdraw so that renders the traps null and void.

All you need is that split second they mess up and become revealed and then bam they usually die from a burst.

Kocoff.7582:

Trapper Thief is a great build. It is OK. Reinforever made a real hype out of this, and it was really fun. Unfortunately, this build will go extinct when HoT releases.

Ps: we need to meet that Thief, he is getting infamous for his nice display to skill lol.

I’ve been on hiatus. Jesus, is this what the forums have come to?
The ghost trapper is balanced from a viewpoint of it will never kill you if you know wtf to do. As far as the power version goes, it’s far from permastealth and has it’s cons. for people that were wondering about the backstab trapper that I originally posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpiAUU9b3Ew here ju go.

I’m working on a p/p trapper pew pew build as my final hurrah before HoT comes out and breaks the spec. I’ll keep y’all posted.

But: 11minutes of standing still? Wtf

Honestly coming on the forum nowadays, QQing that a thief killed you it’s a shame for everyone but thieves themselves.
An ele or an engi dieing to thieves of any sort cannot be truly commiserated.

reinforever.8902:

Kocoff.7582:

Trapper Thief is a great build. It is OK. Reinforever made a real hype out of this, and it was really fun. Unfortunately, this build will go extinct when HoT releases.

Ps: we need to meet that Thief, he is getting infamous for his nice display to skill lol.

I’ve been on hiatus. Jesus, is this what the forums have come to?
The ghost trapper is balanced from a viewpoint of it will never kill you if you know wtf to do. As far as the power version goes, it’s far from permastealth and has it’s cons. for people that were wondering about the backstab trapper that I originally posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpiAUU9b3Ew here ju go.

I’m working on a p/p trapper pew pew build as my final hurrah before HoT comes out and breaks the spec. I’ll keep y’all posted.

so all those players you killed didn’t know “wtf they were doing”? So….. that makes you being The Only One player “who knew wtf you’re doing?”

Interesting!

Trapper runes also work nice with p/p power or condition. That loss in power from the runeset itself is made up for when gaining might on the trap triggers and the stealth adds to much needed survivability.

I currently use this rune on my own P/P thief. You can get some massive unloads when Shadowtrap is triggered. (trick is not to use unload first use the AA than the unload not only does the AA itself do decent damage with the 5 shots but they tend to dodge block that ensuring more unloads hit)

DarkSyze.8627:

reinforever.8902:

Kocoff.7582:

Trapper Thief is a great build. It is OK. Reinforever made a real hype out of this, and it was really fun. Unfortunately, this build will go extinct when HoT releases.

Ps: we need to meet that Thief, he is getting infamous for his nice display to skill lol.

I’ve been on hiatus. Jesus, is this what the forums have come to?
The ghost trapper is balanced from a viewpoint of it will never kill you if you know wtf to do. As far as the power version goes, it’s far from permastealth and has it’s cons. for people that were wondering about the backstab trapper that I originally posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpiAUU9b3Ew here ju go.

I’m working on a p/p trapper pew pew build as my final hurrah before HoT comes out and breaks the spec. I’ll keep y’all posted.

so all those players you killed didn’t know “wtf they were doing”? So….. that makes you being The Only One player “who knew wtf you’re doing?”

Interesting!

Well no, cause I don’t play the ghost trapper. I play backstab power trapper….
I think you misunderstood me. I was saying the condition trapper that focuses on staying permastealth to kill people with caltrops and traps can only kill people that aren’t paying attention. I’m not saying I’m the only person who knows what I’m doing lmao.

babazhook.6805:

Trapper runes also work nice with p/p power or condition. That loss in power from the runeset itself is made up for when gaining might on the trap triggers and the stealth adds to much needed survivability.

I currently use this rune on my own P/P thief. You can get some massive unloads when Shadowtrap is triggered. (trick is not to use unload first use the AA than the unload not only does the AA itself do decent damage with the 5 shots but they tend to dodge block that ensuring more unloads hit)

Yeah I did some mild testing last night, I’m playing with some decent valk armor mixed in so I can survive a little more. The main problem I ran into was reflection spec mesmers. I might end up swapping my sb from my normal d/p trapper build for p/p for ranged pressure. I really like unload and it gives some really good ranged burst for adaptability and being unpredictable.

reinforever.8902:

Kocoff.7582:

Trapper Thief is a great build. It is OK. Reinforever made a real hype out of this, and it was really fun. Unfortunately, this build will go extinct when HoT releases.

Ps: we need to meet that Thief, he is getting infamous for his nice display to skill lol.

I’ve been on hiatus. Jesus, is this what the forums have come to?
The ghost trapper is balanced from a viewpoint of it will never kill you if you know wtf to do. As far as the power version goes, it’s far from permastealth and has it’s cons. for people that were wondering about the backstab trapper that I originally posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpiAUU9b3Ew here ju go.

I’m working on a p/p trapper pew pew build as my final hurrah before HoT comes out and breaks the spec. I’ll keep y’all posted.

Thank you oh wonderful and glorious Senpai

Trapper thief is completely unbalanced… Its not impossible to outplay, all it takes is standing/porting on their Black Powders to reveal them.

However, the fact that conditions can be APPLIED (not remain… APPLY) in stealth is broken. Simple fix would be to cause Reveal in any form of condition “application”. Would fix PU condi mesmers, would fix trapper “perma” invis thieves…

Or they can just introduce reveal to all classes and nerf everything into oblivion. I’d say Anet would do the lazy thing, anyone else?

bliss.4305:

Trapper thief is completely unbalanced… Its not impossible to outplay, all it takes is standing/porting on their Black Powders to reveal them.

However, the fact that conditions can be APPLIED (not remain… APPLY) in stealth is broken. Simple fix would be to cause Reveal in any form of condition “application”. Would fix PU condi mesmers, would fix trapper “perma” invis thieves…

Or they can just introduce reveal to all classes and nerf everything into oblivion. I’d say Anet would do the lazy thing, anyone else?

We had something similar before the patch in that traps applied damage. The main reason there trapper runes now outside the niche few that used to exist is because they removed the damage componet. Remove and it will be back to being niche.

In other words a bad idea. Traps become usable after that damage component removed.

reinforever.8902:

babazhook.6805:

Trapper runes also work nice with p/p power or condition. That loss in power from the runeset itself is made up for when gaining might on the trap triggers and the stealth adds to much needed survivability.

I currently use this rune on my own P/P thief. You can get some massive unloads when Shadowtrap is triggered. (trick is not to use unload first use the AA than the unload not only does the AA itself do decent damage with the 5 shots but they tend to dodge block that ensuring more unloads hit)

Yeah I did some mild testing last night, I’m playing with some decent valk armor mixed in so I can survive a little more. The main problem I ran into was reflection spec mesmers. I might end up swapping my sb from my normal d/p trapper build for p/p for ranged pressure. I really like unload and it gives some really good ranged burst for adaptability and being unpredictable.

I ended speccing into IP for those reflects . P/P has to build with as high a crit rate as possible IMHO and IP will outheal the reflects. Yes you lose a bit of overall damage. It a trade off.

If you spec a sigil of strength on one weapon and IF this WvW where you can get that might on crit food with no cooldown you can make up for this lower damage with might stacks.

I note you spec omnomberry ghost food. Ghost will trigger on every unload but you rarely get more then one to fire per unload due to 1 second cooldown. IP will get health every hit. Thus 8 hits will get you 15 percent total damage. If you throw the SOM as heal on top of that you can garner another 1k heal per unload but this at the cost of one trap as you will not use the heal to generate the trap from respite.

I find you have to do a lot of tuning for this build to get that right balance.