Guild Wars 2

as the title says , i am now playing with d/d + d/d for trying to make a viable death blossom build because the skill is awesome and hardly gets used by anyone ,

i want to say 5 initiative for this skill is quite much , people dodge it alot and it does not always hit 3 times as the skill describes ,

the point with this build is to have alot of dodges (death blossom also dodges) and high initiative regen to make you spam more death blossoms and bleeds

10 points in acrobatics “vigorous recovery” (gain vigor whenever you heal) does NOT work with “signet of malice”(heal whenever you attack) this should be fixed since you are sacrificing a healing skill that is way better, “hide in shadows” ……. this is optional it depends on your traits 20pts acrobatics for the extra init regen or the heal yourself whenever you spend initiative(this also does NOT work with gain vigor when you heal)

death blossom and signet of malice heals you for everyone you attack so that includes pets, clones everything death blossom hits

but i still think it works best for this build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

please to share your thoughts, thanks in advance

You’re definitely synergizing heavily towards Death Blossom spam. My only suggestion would be to make the build slightly less gimmicky by only going 20 acrobatics, putting those 10 points into Deadly Arts for +10 % more condition duration, +33 % poison duration, and weaken-on-poison (the power will boost your LDBs a bit as well). After that since you’re no longer gaining initiative on swap and have a good amount of poison synergy use D/D + SB.

This results in a bit more powerful death blossoms with less spamability but way more malleability since you’ve got a shortbow swap instead of D/D. It’ll also make your steals poison longer and apply weakness. You won’t be entirely shut down when LDB isn’t a viable solution to whatever situation you’ve encountered.

The thing about Death Blossom are the 3 Bleeds you tack on and you can only spam it 3 times before needing to steal to do one more.

I currently run a Condition Thief build focused more on spamming DB to get those bleeds up, dodging to drop additional caltrops that cause bleed, and then stealing to get an additional death blossom. Afterwards, I stealth, create distance, and use the shortbow until I can spam more death blossom. It works well in WvW and PvE. For PvE, you can swap out Blinding Power for Roll for Initiative to get more bleed stacks in.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

So my tip, as a D/D death blossom is to increase condition duration a bit more.

Suralin.3947:

The thing about Death Blossom are the 3 Bleeds you tack on and you can only spam it 3 times before needing to steal to do one more.

I currently run a Condition Thief build focused more on spamming DB to get those bleeds up, dodging to drop additional caltrops that cause bleed, and then stealing to get an additional death blossom. Afterwards, I stealth, create distance, and use the shortbow until I can spam more death blossom. It works well in WvW and PvE. For PvE, you can swap out Blinding Power for Roll for Initiative to get more bleed stacks in.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

So my tip, as a D/D death blossom is to increase condition duration a bit more.

Yikes. That is a really bad build no offense.
You have points wasted in critical strikes, when you are not crit based and don’t have enough prec/crit damage on your gear to make light of it. You also have 5 in DA for the poison on steal. Not only is that single target, when you are focusing the build on an AOE ability, but poison is lackluster anyway (might be worth it if it was 10s of burning).
You can get good init regen from acro and SA trees and quadrupling the survivability of your build. If you want even more cond duration, grab some pizza for the food buff

My roommate has been condition on his thief since the week after headstart
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmKP3ey5E+5EB3Dji0m6posjtTBXtKA;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7MOfkzsCYswOg5CA

Copy and paste

Since we’re playing the build game, here’s my iteration…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

High initiative generation and stealth abilities. I’ve been running this with D/D, but have been trying P/D as well. SB as my second.

stinkypants.8419:

Since we’re playing the build game, here’s my iteration…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

High initiative generation and stealth abilities. I’ve been running this with D/D, but have been trying P/D as well. SB as my second.

PVE or Spvp im guessing? I can see it working for sure.
I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

If you go D/D on both weapon sets, use Sigil of Geomancy. I wouldn’t go into Critical Strikes at all. It’s not like DB is the ultimate defense. Going all out for its spammability is somewhat a bad idea. You need some more survivability, especially condition removal.
Shadow Arts IV is an awesome trait for on demand condition removal

roll of initiative is better than the signet for 1 init every 10 sec and provides a way to break immobilise/chill/slow/knowkdown and some others

it gives 6 init on use and moves you away from combat from the rolling you do backwards (not always good but usefull)

a steal and a roll can give you a great amount of init back

You need to spam uncatchable, personally I’ve found builds with higher stealth reliance and spamming dodge whilst weaving deathblossom to work better, you get massive bleeds, no opportunity for opponents to actually fight back, standard playstyle.

But yours actually seems like less of the typical 1-button win specs that most thieves run, so kudos to you, I like it, builds like those will likely be the types to survive nerfs [if they actually happen]

Teerwik.1650:

I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

SoM is an excellent WvW heal, but you have to adopt a much more offensive playstyle. With SoM, things like shortbow’s poison field become powerful heals, dodges with Uncatchable are a good way to heal up, and Dagger Storm becomes near-invincibility. This means you have to maintain pressure instead of the attack->retreat style that some builds prefer. The important thing to remember is that, in a pinch, SoM has fairly good active healing for an escape.

SoS is great for travel if you aren’t traited for perma-swiftness, but I’d switch it out when preparing for actual combat if you can, it doesn’t pull its weight. Because of this, I encourage people to not put it in their listed builds. It is assumed that you’re going to slot it in for travel, might as well list what you’re actually using for combat.

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

SoM is an excellent WvW heal, but you have to adopt a much more offensive playstyle. With SoM, things like shortbow’s poison field become powerful heals, dodges with Uncatchable are a good way to heal up, and Dagger Storm becomes near-invincibility. This means you have to maintain pressure instead of the attack->retreat style that some builds prefer. The important thing to remember is that, in a pinch, SoM has fairly good active healing for an escape.

SoS is great for travel if you aren’t traited for perma-swiftness, but I’d switch it out when preparing for actual combat if you can, it doesn’t pull its weight. Because of this, I encourage people to not put it in their listed builds. It is assumed that you’re going to slot it in for travel, might as well list what you’re actually using for combat.

heh, you again.
1. SoS does pull it weight, you are still moving faster in combat.
2. If you are going for perma swiftness you are losing big time on other things
3. SoM does jack in wvwvw. At most you will get 100-150 per heal out of it, even an arrow cart will out damage your SoM even with Assassin’s reward. SoM might become useful in wvwvw if we get a 1200 range weapon so you can just sit back without being in everyones range or at least at the edge of it. Why waste a healing slot on a 90 second cooldown elite, that is the jist of it’s worth. There is no way in heck SoM can ever be compared to the sheer target drop of HiS, much less the heal AND cond removal. I would even take Withdraw over SoM any day, especially when coupled with Roll for init

Teerwik.1650:

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

SoM is an excellent WvW heal, but you have to adopt a much more offensive playstyle. With SoM, things like shortbow’s poison field become powerful heals, dodges with Uncatchable are a good way to heal up, and Dagger Storm becomes near-invincibility. This means you have to maintain pressure instead of the attack->retreat style that some builds prefer. The important thing to remember is that, in a pinch, SoM has fairly good active healing for an escape.

SoS is great for travel if you aren’t traited for perma-swiftness, but I’d switch it out when preparing for actual combat if you can, it doesn’t pull its weight. Because of this, I encourage people to not put it in their listed builds. It is assumed that you’re going to slot it in for travel, might as well list what you’re actually using for combat.

heh, you again.
1. SoS does pull it weight, you are still moving faster in combat.
2. If you are going for perma swiftness you are losing big time on other things
3. SoM does jack in wvwvw. At most you will get 100-150 per heal out of it, even an arrow cart will out damage your SoM even with Assassin’s reward. SoM might become useful in wvwvw if we get a 1200 range weapon so you can just sit back without being in everyones range or at least at the edge of it. Why waste a healing slot on a 90 second cooldown elite, that is the jist of it’s worth. There is no way in heck SoM can ever be compared to the sheer target drop of HiS, much less the heal AND cond removal. I would even take Withdraw over SoM any day, especially when coupled with Roll for init

1. Only if SoS’ bonus is what is allowing you to dictate range. That depends on your target’s movement speed, their desired range in relation to yours, and who is crippling who. It doesn’t do nothing, but I’d still assert it doesn’t pull its weight, although that is somewhat build dependent.

2. Depends on your existing build. If you’re already taking Acrobatics and Thrill of the Crime then perma-swiftness isn’t particularly hard to do.

3. SoM’s base cooldown is only 15 seconds, and it can be traited to be lower and is the lowest CD heal and lowest CD signet available to thieves, excellent synergy with on-activation effects and hardly equivalent to “a 90 second cooldown elite”. An arrow cart will outdamage every healing ability, but SoM allows decent passive healing while still having activated healing on par with the other two heals. SoM has its place in WvW, just like the other two healing abilities, but it caters much more to an AE-heavy offensive play style than the other two.

I have been messing with something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmKPHdy9E95EB3Dna0m6p4rjtTBX1KA;TwAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNt+Y4xOg5HA
It’s got great survivability – stack up the bleeds with caltrops d/d then go stealth and regenerate health and initiative. I have tried with a p/d second set instead of SB but I like SB better.

Wondering if maybe switching traits assassins reward for quick recovery and maybe infusion of shadows for hidden thief would be a good idea. Also thinking about swapping shadowstep for blinding powder for another stealth/blind.

I had some really good success with this build tonight (over 300 point matches in spvp which is really good for me – i’m no pro). Caltops/steal combo and then 3 d/d and then either switch to SB or stealth. I was annoying the hell out of people being so hard to kill.

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

SoM is an excellent WvW heal, but you have to adopt a much more offensive playstyle. With SoM, things like shortbow’s poison field become powerful heals, dodges with Uncatchable are a good way to heal up, and Dagger Storm becomes near-invincibility. This means you have to maintain pressure instead of the attack->retreat style that some builds prefer. The important thing to remember is that, in a pinch, SoM has fairly good active healing for an escape.

SoS is great for travel if you aren’t traited for perma-swiftness, but I’d switch it out when preparing for actual combat if you can, it doesn’t pull its weight. Because of this, I encourage people to not put it in their listed builds. It is assumed that you’re going to slot it in for travel, might as well list what you’re actually using for combat.

heh, you again.
1. SoS does pull it weight, you are still moving faster in combat.
2. If you are going for perma swiftness you are losing big time on other things
3. SoM does jack in wvwvw. At most you will get 100-150 per heal out of it, even an arrow cart will out damage your SoM even with Assassin’s reward. SoM might become useful in wvwvw if we get a 1200 range weapon so you can just sit back without being in everyones range or at least at the edge of it. Why waste a healing slot on a 90 second cooldown elite, that is the jist of it’s worth. There is no way in heck SoM can ever be compared to the sheer target drop of HiS, much less the heal AND cond removal. I would even take Withdraw over SoM any day, especially when coupled with Roll for init

1. Only if SoS’ bonus is what is allowing you to dictate range. That depends on your target’s movement speed, their desired range in relation to yours, and who is crippling who. It doesn’t do nothing, but I’d still assert it doesn’t pull its weight, although that is somewhat build dependent.

2. Depends on your existing build. If you’re already taking Acrobatics and Thrill of the Crime then perma-swiftness isn’t particularly hard to do.

3. SoM’s base cooldown is only 15 seconds, and it can be traited to be lower and is the lowest CD heal and lowest CD signet available to thieves, excellent synergy with on-activation effects and hardly equivalent to “a 90 second cooldown elite”. An arrow cart will outdamage every healing ability, but SoM allows decent passive healing while still having activated healing on par with the other two heals. SoM has its place in WvW, just like the other two healing abilities, but it caters much more to an AE-heavy offensive play style than the other two.

I am going to have to agree with Teerwik here. It does not sound like you play thief and are just looking at the wiki. Until you can show a video of you successfully using SoM in wvwvw, it is not possible. Successfully does not mean against afk players either.
Btw, an arrow cart will not out damage HiS, maybe a ballista but not a cart

SoM is brilliant combined with any condition damage. I use a glass cannon build in WvW but I still use caltrops, choking gas cloud and death blossom when I plan on staying engaged in a fight. The heals they give allow me to continue bouncing around from target to target without dying immediately, meaning more downed enemies that don’t rally off my corpse.

The reason I took Infiltrator’s Signet over Roll for Initiative is because it is a passive ability, and maybe it’s just me, but I’ve found that RfI puts me too far away and I have to run back anyway. I don’t use the Shadowstep on Infiltrator’s often, but it can be useful when Steal isn’t up.

Signet of Shadows, I do hem and haw over this one and occasionally drop in Assassin Signet, however, this build is all about being mobile and I find the speed increase to help, the blind on activation isn’t bad either.

I’ve been using P/D in WvW as I’m not 80 yet and prefer to harass. For PvP D/D is better IMHO.

SB on second, always. Actually now that I think about it trolling the zerg with SoM and clusterbombing would be fun. Traited right, one could cause some mayhem

I think what people forget about these builds is that we can still backstab when running D/D.

My rotation given optimal conditions:

Dodge > Steal > Backstab > Release Stolen > Dodge > LDB > CnD > Pause > Dodge > Backstab >>

… and you should know how the fight is going from there… more of the same or HS to get it over with.. or your dead.

I would suggest casting cnd between your dodge and your steal before you backstab

Elthurien.8356:

SoM is brilliant combined with any condition damage. I use a glass cannon build in WvW but I still use caltrops, choking gas cloud and death blossom when I plan on staying engaged in a fight. The heals they give allow me to continue bouncing around from target to target without dying immediately, meaning more downed enemies that don’t rally off my corpse.

Still going to need a video, anyone can make it sound like it works on paper. But in actual practice the veterans know its just not possible. Such an insignificant amount of healing will never save you from a group of enemies, especially when every class can hit you for 2-5k+ sometimes 10k+, Much less knock you down. Much less immobilize and AOE/melee you/corrupt boon you while dagger storming. Also the evade on DB is extremely short, not even half the animation. Also, its not like it heals you on every tick of caltrops or bleed, only when it applies, so thats still very little.

Teerwik.1650:

Suralin.3947:

The thing about Death Blossom are the 3 Bleeds you tack on and you can only spam it 3 times before needing to steal to do one more.

I currently run a Condition Thief build focused more on spamming DB to get those bleeds up, dodging to drop additional caltrops that cause bleed, and then stealing to get an additional death blossom. Afterwards, I stealth, create distance, and use the shortbow until I can spam more death blossom. It works well in WvW and PvE. For PvE, you can swap out Blinding Power for Roll for Initiative to get more bleed stacks in.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmSOHcy8E+JFxmCfKU/DfVXQ3jrq1qC;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7XOfkftCYswOg5CA

So my tip, as a D/D death blossom is to increase condition duration a bit more.

Yikes. That is a really bad build no offense.
You have points wasted in critical strikes, when you are not crit based and don’t have enough prec/crit damage on your gear to make light of it. You also have 5 in DA for the poison on steal. Not only is that single target, when you are focusing the build on an AOE ability, but poison is lackluster anyway (might be worth it if it was 10s of burning).
You can get good init regen from acro and SA trees and quadrupling the survivability of your build. If you want even more cond duration, grab some pizza for the food buff

My roommate has been condition on his thief since the week after headstart
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmKP3ey5E+5EB3Dji0m6posjtTBXtKA;TwAgyCuo8xAjAG7MOfkzsCYswOg5CA

Copy and paste

AAAHH!!! That’s not my build at all, lol.

Here it is:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlUmiP3ey5E+JFB/hk694rj1saKkZL7FA;TYAKYMwIgxWkDGZRA

John Lucier.5486:

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

Tulisin.6945:

Teerwik.1650:

I have yet to see anyone however successfully use SoM in wvwvw (successfully as in not melt in something larger then 1v1-1v3) much less without SoS.

SoM is an excellent WvW heal, but you have to adopt a much more offensive playstyle. With SoM, things like shortbow’s poison field become powerful heals, dodges with Uncatchable are a good way to heal up, and Dagger Storm becomes near-invincibility. This means you have to maintain pressure instead of the attack->retreat style that some builds prefer. The important thing to remember is that, in a pinch, SoM has fairly good active healing for an escape.

SoS is great for travel if you aren’t traited for perma-swiftness, but I’d switch it out when preparing for actual combat if you can, it doesn’t pull its weight. Because of this, I encourage people to not put it in their listed builds. It is assumed that you’re going to slot it in for travel, might as well list what you’re actually using for combat.

heh, you again.
1. SoS does pull it weight, you are still moving faster in combat.
2. If you are going for perma swiftness you are losing big time on other things
3. SoM does jack in wvwvw. At most you will get 100-150 per heal out of it, even an arrow cart will out damage your SoM even with Assassin’s reward. SoM might become useful in wvwvw if we get a 1200 range weapon so you can just sit back without being in everyones range or at least at the edge of it. Why waste a healing slot on a 90 second cooldown elite, that is the jist of it’s worth. There is no way in heck SoM can ever be compared to the sheer target drop of HiS, much less the heal AND cond removal. I would even take Withdraw over SoM any day, especially when coupled with Roll for init

1. Only if SoS’ bonus is what is allowing you to dictate range. That depends on your target’s movement speed, their desired range in relation to yours, and who is crippling who. It doesn’t do nothing, but I’d still assert it doesn’t pull its weight, although that is somewhat build dependent.

2. Depends on your existing build. If you’re already taking Acrobatics and Thrill of the Crime then perma-swiftness isn’t particularly hard to do.

3. SoM’s base cooldown is only 15 seconds, and it can be traited to be lower and is the lowest CD heal and lowest CD signet available to thieves, excellent synergy with on-activation effects and hardly equivalent to “a 90 second cooldown elite”. An arrow cart will outdamage every healing ability, but SoM allows decent passive healing while still having activated healing on par with the other two heals. SoM has its place in WvW, just like the other two healing abilities, but it caters much more to an AE-heavy offensive play style than the other two.

I am going to have to agree with Teerwik here. It does not sound like you play thief and are just looking at the wiki. Until you can show a video of you successfully using SoM in wvwvw, it is not possible. Successfully does not mean against afk players either.
Btw, an arrow cart will not out damage HiS, maybe a ballista but not a cart

HiS is usable a whole twice a minute, it isn’t hard for anything to outdamage that. The key to effective use of SoM is maintaining consistent high hit volume. If you’re pulling 2 hits/second on average, SoM is going to surpass the other heals just in passive effectiveness vs. their active. Obviously you’re not going to maintain a constant 2/second, but the periods where you’re pulling >5/second make up for it.

Perhaps your issue is in the situations you consider an ability effective. SoM is not well suited to engaging larger numbers, garnering attention, and being used as an escape tool. SoM is well suited to allowing you to remain in a prolonged fight. If your play style and build don’t support anything other than jumping in, bursting, and getting out (many thieves’ choose to do little else), SoM is not for you.

John Lucier.5486:

Elthurien.8356:

SoM is brilliant combined with any condition damage. I use a glass cannon build in WvW but I still use caltrops, choking gas cloud and death blossom when I plan on staying engaged in a fight. The heals they give allow me to continue bouncing around from target to target without dying immediately, meaning more downed enemies that don’t rally off my corpse.

Still going to need a video, anyone can make it sound like it works on paper. But in actual practice the veterans know its just not possible. Such an insignificant amount of healing will never save you from a group of enemies, especially when every class can hit you for 2-5k+ sometimes 10k+, Much less knock you down. Much less immobilize and AOE/melee you/corrupt boon you while dagger storming. Also the evade on DB is extremely short, not even half the animation. Also, its not like it heals you on every tick of caltrops or bleed, only when it applies, so thats still very little.

Sorry bud I wont be posting any vids. If you’re interested test it, if not just ignore me. Wont affect my gameplay any.

John Lucier.5486:

Still going to need a video, anyone can make it sound like it works on paper. But in actual practice the veterans know its just not possible. Such an insignificant amount of healing will never save you from a group of enemies, especially when every class can hit you for 2-5k+ sometimes 10k+, Much less knock you down. Much less immobilize and AOE/melee you/corrupt boon you while dagger storming. Also the evade on DB is extremely short, not even half the animation. Also, its not like it heals you on every tick of caltrops or bleed, only when it applies, so thats still very little.

wait… are you sure about the caltrops thing? cuz i’m sure i see my health tick every second just from having stuff standing on my caltrops… or did we get a stealth nerf i didnt notice….

@Tulisin
I still do not see anything new in your argument to provide any reason why it is going to be viable in practice for wvwvw. Target breaks and condition cleansing are just too powerful for the damage output you can receive in w3, just make sure you know how and where to position yourself.

@Elthurien
Already have tested it, multiple times, even with some healing gear to boost Assassin Rew, etc. Still not viable.

@kitai
It procs SoM off the application. If your bleed duration on caltrops is say 3-4 seconds, it will proc off every target in the caltrops every time the bleed is reapplied for a duration increase. Caltrops radius is no where near large enough to make this worth it.

kitai.7638:

John Lucier.5486:

Still going to need a video, anyone can make it sound like it works on paper. But in actual practice the veterans know its just not possible. Such an insignificant amount of healing will never save you from a group of enemies, especially when every class can hit you for 2-5k+ sometimes 10k+, Much less knock you down. Much less immobilize and AOE/melee you/corrupt boon you while dagger storming. Also the evade on DB is extremely short, not even half the animation. Also, its not like it heals you on every tick of caltrops or bleed, only when it applies, so thats still very little.

wait… are you sure about the caltrops thing? cuz i’m sure i see my health tick every second just from having stuff standing on my caltrops… or did we get a stealth nerf i didnt notice….

He’s right in that it only works when it applies. You said that the bleed triggers caltrops, which isn’t strictly true. When an enemy stands on caltrops they are “hit” for no damage and then given a bleed + cripple. The damageless hit causes Signet of Malice to heal you, which results in one heal per second per enemy per caltrops field (it is possible to have 3/4 fields on top of eachother). It isn’t really the bleed doing the “hit”, and you won’t get continuously healed as the bleed ticks, only if the enemy continues to stay in your caltrops field for another second and is hit again.

John Lucier’s opinion on caltrops is another clue that he puts himself in situations where enemy movement isn’t predictable or he is otherwise unable to canalize his opponent. Some play styles and situations support ground AE fields, others don’t.

I’ve seen SoM used successfully in WvW video on this very forum last week. It was in a P/D + shortbow video (condition damage with caltrops. Full carrion gear)

It lends itself to P/D very well because you can’t be kited, and it’s a very evasive ranged playstyle that can save it’s init for CnD. Also, the out-of-stealth attack is 5 hits.

HiS vs SoM is a tough one. Usually in WvW that nice big heal and stealth is very helpful but if managed right SoM isn’t all that bad. Looking at raw healing SoM with Signet Use trait is base 16375 healing per minute where HiS is 11520 healing per minute (using guildhead skill calc numbers). Stealth can mitigate a hell of a lot of damage though… I used to dislike SoM until I learned how to work with it.

For WvW I like a 0/20/0/20/30. The 20 in Crit lands us Signet Use which turns SoM into a decent heal every 12 seconds if needed. Coupled with Trickery 30 Hastened Replenishment you can pull 6 initiative every 12 seconds. And Vigorous Recovery will keep you dodge’n/caltrop’n. This will give you more healing only in smaller chunks which isn’t always the best for PvP but you can then have more DB rolling in stead.
Run some stealth utilities to make up for losing HiS. SoM requires you to be more proactive on your healing than reactive.

Also, for PvP I’d concentrate on more Condition Damage rather than Condition Duration for more up front damage because your bleeds will get wiped off within at least 10 seconds.

I hope our incoming backstab nerf at least nets us some more reliable condition damage…

Blood~

I have yet to see a video on here that shows SoM used successfully in wvwvw, since you supposedly spot one, why not link it

It’s on the front page, and has been there for days:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Discussion-Condi-Thief-P-D-or-D-D-in-WvWvW/first#post699929

Spifnar.4712:

It’s on the front page, and has been there for days:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Discussion-Condi-Thief-P-D-or-D-D-in-WvWvW/first#post699929

Then me and you have a huge difference in what we define as used successfully. Almost every single person he fought, even the group he fought might as well have been afk because they kept on attacking the NPC, and never really went after him, so they might as well have been afk. I def wouldn’t call an ability viable just because you can troll the worst players I have ever seen in the game.