Guild Wars 2

we will be like wars using only auto and adrenaline moves, where our adrenaline move will be producing stealth, whether CnD or BP-HS.

Brassnautilus.2941:

we will be like wars using only auto and adrenaline moves, where our adrenaline move will be producing stealth, whether CnD or BP-HS.

Warriors use Adrenaline?

I think what we’ve all learned here is when you have noobs/uninformed people that complain enough, the game company will give in to them and make the game easier for the bad players.

A lot of the thief QQers barely ever play thief, or they’ve only seen highlight reels of noob backstab thieves 1 shotting upleveled players in WvW.

Then you get on a thief for real and see if you mess up at all you insta-die from a sneeze unless you use your, you know, THIEF STEALTH MECHANIC, as your “defense.”

It will be disappointing if anet devs give in to whining rather than actually looking at the class objectively.

I know my gf and i will prob be switching classes if they nerf stealth, we played the thief because of the stealth, how fun it is, and because it’s different from the other classes.

But i guess since they’re trying to turn the thief into a weaker and worse Warrior, we’ll probably switch to mesmer or Ele which is about as mobile as a thief anyways lmao.

Hope they do not go through with catering to the bad players.

Well if this nerf makes u switch profs then u are and always have been a baddie. After the nerf you’ll just have to think and plan before diving in to unload. And u can still play attrition as p/d. This is really just a nerf to all the cnd spammers and culling abusers. Your damage is still there so enough with the tears. This was a necessary change and all the good thieves know it.

nerva.7940:

Well if this nerf makes u switch profs then u are and always have been a baddie. After the nerf you’ll just have to think and plan before diving in to unload. And u can still play attrition as p/d. This is really just a nerf to all the cnd spammers and culling abusers. Your damage is still there so enough with the tears. This was a necessary change and all the good thieves know it.

Again the main issue is the fact that its a blanket nerf to all stealth rather than a specific fix for the actual issues.

It would be like them putting on a 3 second cooldown on gaining boons because one specific case can stack all the boons instantly.

Fact is no one else gets penalized for using their utilities back to back, with this change it will punish those thieves that use more than 1 instance of stealth for something other than sitting around farming newbies with CnD only.

Dasorine.1964:

Fact is no one else gets penalized for using their utilities back to back, with this change it will punish those thieves that use more than 1 instance of stealth for something other than sitting around farming newbies with CnD only.

Mesmers have a 0.25 second global cooldown on shatters. So they can’t chain/combo them.

Also, Mesmers are subject to the stealth reveal changes as well.

Also, all classes with leap finishers are also affected.

shatters not a utility its a class skill is it not? Im talking actual utility slots, you can still fire off stuff like charge mantra’s without having to wait between each one.

And yeah stealth change effects more than just thief which is also wrong (though those abusing smoke combo fields outside of combat also needed adjusting)

I still don’t understand why they decided to blanket nerf the mechanic rather than properly fix the bits that are causing the proper problems (and not just complaints by people who think stealth is invincibility)

Dasorine.1964:

shatters not a utility its a class skill is it not? Im talking actual utility slots, you can still fire off stuff like charge mantra’s without having to wait between each one.

Phantasmal Disenchanter and Defender will overwrite existing clones and phantasms. They will also be overwritten by mere clones if you have 3 phantasms up.

I still don’t understand why they decided to blanket nerf the mechanic rather than properly fix the bits that are causing the proper problems (and not just complaints by people who think stealth is invincibility)

Because the “blanket nerf” is, in fact, a directed fix for repeated spammy stealths (without affecting stealth stacking, which should probably also be nerfed, but would impact current gameplay a hell of a lot more).

EasymodeX.4062:

Dasorine.1964:

shatters not a utility its a class skill is it not? Im talking actual utility slots, you can still fire off stuff like charge mantra’s without having to wait between each one.

Phantasmal Disenchanter and Defender will overwrite existing clones and phantasms. They will also be overwritten by mere clones if you have 3 phantasms up.

I still don’t understand why they decided to blanket nerf the mechanic rather than properly fix the bits that are causing the proper problems (and not just complaints by people who think stealth is invincibility)

Because the “blanket nerf” is, in fact, a directed fix for repeated spammy stealths (without affecting stealth stacking, which should probably also be nerfed, but would impact current gameplay a hell of a lot more).

Overwritten isn’t same as not work at all, you still get the effect you click the next button for it just replaces an older one.

So then no one should be able to spam any similiar moves back to back, so if you want to fire off another clone you have to wait for the old ones to time out else your cooldown goes to waste, if people want to put another stack of boons on they have to wait a set period after the last one popped before they use the move.

The fact the people think constantly being stealthed is an issue is just bad, someone staying in stealth is doing NOTHING to you, they at best are escaping without giving you a reward but they are still for all purposes defeated.

If they are doing something to you they are either already activating revealed (how it should be) or are doing CnD spam which should be fixed but specifically so and even thats 1 medium hit every 3-4 seconds predictably.

I’m missing how this change will horribly cripple and thief except for those that spend all thier time hiding.

It’s not horribly crippling. It forces Thieves and Mesmers to be visible for 3 seconds after every stealth.

Here’s an idea boys and girls … try out the sword. What’s this?! A weapon whose auto-attack chain puts crippling and weakness on the enemy?! And a shadow return on weapon skill #2?! Wow!

Go in stealth, shadow return out during reveal. Rinse and repeat.

Good thieves have already been doing this sort of thing.

Have trouble with bunkers if you’re not a cannon?! Well most bunkers use boons. Put a dagger in your off-hand with that sword. Oh my! Now you have boon removal! Welcome to the ranks of Mesmers and Necromancers. You’re one of the less than 1/2 of classes that now has reliable boon removal.

Sword + Dagger Thief … it’s for the big boys and girls.

Dasorine.1964:

Overwritten isn’t same as not work at all, you still get the effect you click the next button for it just replaces an older one.

1. Thief stealth abilities still work. E.g. blinding powder still blinds. Refuge still stealths everyone else.

2. Multiple combo fields don’t stack. So, based on your wording, Mesmer Feedback and Null Field “don’t work at all”.

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s an idea boys and girls … try out the sword. Look at #2 on Thief sword. What’s this?! A weapon whose auto-attack chain puts crippling and weakness on the enemy?!

I’m a major proponent of S/D, but the 2 seconds of weakness and cripple on the back-end of the auto attack are not exactly the most useful tools in the box…

Dual.8953:

I’m missing how this change will horribly cripple and thief except for those that spend all thier time hiding.

http://youtu.be/XubClqLgJnY?t=5m38s

At about 6:15 there’s an explanation of why CnD > CnD combo may be useful outside of killing someone in a horribly inefficient way.

While it won’t cripple thieves (Outside of this kind of tanky x/D thief build that utilizes stealth) it will affect builds that utilise the “In stealth” traits and also will affect any build that uses stealth attacks and gets dodged (Not only will you lose out on Initiative, damage, time and positioning, you’ll also be prevented from retrying for 3 seconds)

It’s not a huge “Oh noes thief is unplayable” nerf, but it is a rather haphazard way of fixing what seems to be a singular problem (CnD spam until targets die) which could be sorted via lowering CnD damage (Meaning CnD spam will do less than currently, has a side effect of also toning down the often complained about CnD > Mug > BS burst)

Sebrent.3625:

It’s not horribly crippling. It forces Thieves and Mesmers to be visible for 3 seconds after every stealth.

Here’s an idea boys and girls … try out the sword. What’s this?! A weapon whose auto-attack chain puts crippling and weakness on the enemy?! And a shadow return on weapon skill #2?! Wow!

Go in stealth, shadow return out during reveal. Rinse and repeat.

Good thieves have already been doing this sort of thing.

Have trouble with bunkers if you’re not a cannon?! Well most bunkers use boons. Put a dagger in your off-hand with that sword. Oh my! Now you have boon removal! Welcome to the ranks of Mesmers and Necromancers. You’re one of the less than 1/2 of classes that now has reliable boon removal.

Sword + Dagger Thief … it’s for the big boys and girls.

Reliable boon removal? Are you trolling us?

seldom thieves use s/d as a boon removal, its unreliable

but for the upcomming changes i will gladly welcome boon hate,

i will target anyone with boons to amplify our damage

Ok I’m a bit confused on what this means and I have heard mixed details. For me when I am in wvw roaming I usually F1 onto someone which stealths me (due to trait) then backstab which causes reveal then I dodge or auto attack until reveal is gone then CND- backstab and continue this for a melee fight. This nerf won’t change this scenario at all right?

Addictive.9387:

This nerf won’t change this scenario at all right?

Nope.

Basically the change just means that if stealth times out you get the revealed debuff.

If you always break stealth with an attack then you’ll not notice any change.

Right.

The change is that if you don’t exit stealth via an attack (in other words stealth drops via duration), you STILL get a revealed debuff. This means you can’t “almost-chain-stealth” forever with CND every 3.01 seconds.

Oldgrimm.8521:

seldom thieves use anything besides d/d

Fixed :-p

I wasn’t trolling. Like the ranger sword skills, it takes practice to get used to. People use to complain a good bit more about the Ranger’s sword’s #2 and #3 skills. Now they are well-loved.

That leap kitten with Ranger Sword is annoying as HELL to get used to. Edit: I think the biggest problem is the animation lock with all the steps of Sword1 messing up the timing of the other abilities, causing the timing of everything to be weird as hell until you get reaaally familiar with it.

Personally I think the “stall” time at the end of the leap animation where you can’t move needs to be reduced. Hard to use it twice in a row (turn around for the first half) to leap twice in the same direction (which is hilarious kekeke).

That said, using Ranger S/D with Quickness makes you go batkitten insane flippy floppy mad attack rage. Enemy doesn’t know where the hell you are or what the hell you’re doing when you’re spamming those.

EasymodeX.4062:

That leap kitten with Ranger Sword is annoying as HELL to get used to. Edit: I think the biggest problem is the animation lock with all the steps of Sword1 messing up the timing of the other abilities, causing the timing of everything to be weird as hell until you get reaaally familiar with it.

Personally I think the “stall” time at the end of the leap animation where you can’t move needs to be reduced. Hard to use it twice in a row (turn around for the first half) to leap twice in the same direction (which is hilarious kekeke).

That said, using Ranger S/D with Quickness makes you go batkitten insane flippy floppy mad attack rage. Enemy doesn’t know where the hell you are or what the hell you’re doing when you’re spamming those.

Lol @ your description :-)

I know exactly where a ranger is when they do that … flipping in my face. If on my warrior I swing my weapon or block. On my mesmer I distortion or block.

I agree about the stall time. Very annoying.

But we’re getting off-topic, back to thief.

Practice with the sword, ladies and gents. You’ll be better for it.

However, warning, it plays quite differently from the dagger.

EasymodeX.4062:

Right.

The change is that if you don’t exit stealth via an attack (in other words stealth drops via duration), you STILL get a revealed debuff. This means you can’t “almost-chain-stealth” forever with CND every 3.01 seconds.

Ah I see then. It seems like this will mainly affect my escapes and those basically “perma” stealth thieves which I hate, not like they they kill me I just get bored and leave.

EasymodeX.4062:

Dasorine.1964:

Fact is no one else gets penalized for using their utilities back to back, with this change it will punish those thieves that use more than 1 instance of stealth for something other than sitting around farming newbies with CnD only.

Mesmers have a 0.25 second global cooldown on shatters. So they can’t chain/combo them.

Also, Mesmers are subject to the stealth reveal changes as well.

Also, all classes with leap finishers are also affected.

then make reveal 0.25 sec. How about 3s global cooldown on shatter?

seriously, we are talking about punishing thieves for repeatedly using their defensive ability here. Thieves use stealth to remove condition, we do not have other reliable mean of condition removal.

How about 3s CD on regen? Do that and see how many eles cry.

mixu.4281:

So, I happened to stop by the GW2 State of the Game stream just in time for their discussion on thieves. Apparently, ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.

Discuss.

Good change, also prevents thieves from having infinite stealth inside forts and castles and running around untouchable for 45 min.

As shown in the video stealth stomp + c&d is a common way of acting. They should have done something like “if you don’t perform any action you’ll get revealed” so you can’t just c&d → wait → c&d etc etc.
Also every block stance/immunity correctly timed will prevent any form of damage AND apply revealed.

@Sebrent = how is the s/d damage ? Can you actually kill someone?

Gamblit.5041:

It just hit me. While they are changing stealth on 26th, will they also add mobility to Thieves in the same patch, or was it just something they were thinking about doing in the future?

something that will possibly happen, at some point in the future, maybe.

Dasorine.1964:

Gamblit.5041:

It just hit me. While they are changing stealth on 26th, will they also add mobility to Thieves in the same patch, or was it just something they were thinking about doing in the future?

something that will possibly happen, at some point in the future, maybe.

WTF and 15 characters later

Atticus.7194:

mixu.4281:

So, I happened to stop by the GW2 State of the Game stream just in time for their discussion on thieves. Apparently, ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.

Discuss.

Good change, also prevents thieves from having infinite stealth inside forts and castles and running around untouchable for 45 min.

100% wrong. The D/P “Perma” stealth build is not affected by this change since they never have to leave stealth. Only the patient CnD using thieves are hit by this

Shemsu.8721:

Atticus.7194:

mixu.4281:

So, I happened to stop by the GW2 State of the Game stream just in time for their discussion on thieves. Apparently, ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.

Discuss.

Good change, also prevents thieves from having infinite stealth inside forts and castles and running around untouchable for 45 min.

100% wrong. The D/P “Perma” stealth build is not affected by this change since they never have to leave stealth. Only the patient CnD using thieves are hit by this

yes, indeed, also i saw a post somewhere that a combination of blinding powder + cluster bomb used hijack towers and keeps, two thieves were at play in this scenario and they are in perma stealth,

Daendur.2357:

As shown in the video stealth stomp + c&d is a common way of acting. They should have done something like “if you don’t perform any action you’ll get revealed” so you can’t just c&d -> wait -> c&d etc etc.
Also every block stance/immunity correctly timed will prevent any form of damage AND apply revealed.

@Sebrent = how is the s/d damage ? Can you actually kill someone?

Sword is unfortunately an inferior choice to dagger. Sebrent and others will no doubt come and explain at length how it takes more skill, IS is amazing, blah blah blah, but the truth is, it just isn’t as well designed as D/P.

FS’s targeting is all kinds of kittened up. I don’t care if it hits great with Basilisks or Devourers, I shouldn’t need to pop a utility to make sure one of my weaponskills paths correctly.

IS is amazing – it’s literally the rock that every sword spec is built on. Without it, Sword would be considered a joke entirely. There is an issue with using IS too fast however, where it constantly bugs out (Drops a circle and doesn’t teleport you to target, consumes shadow return but doesn’t move you to the circle, double shadow return, double strike…etc)

AA is ok, but slow and easily avoided. Hitting multiple targets per swing might be nice in PvE, but in PvP it just means there are that many targets in Melee range, either focusing you or hitting you with their own AoE, and thief isn’t tough enough to take that.

Dagger OH has been crap since they nerfed it – I’ll take Headshot and BP over them pretty much any day.

Tactical strike used to be a fantastic control move, until they nerfed the duration in PvP – now it doesn’t deliver enough daze for the insanely kittenty damage and positional req’s.

All in all, compared to D/P (or even D/D, which is worse than D/P), sword is inferior. It does less damage, slower. It has all the positional requirements of D/D, with none of the burst – the daze you get in return is sub par. While IS is amazing, it’s not good enough to save the spec from mediocrity. Perhaps if FS was functional and reliable, the case would be different (as on paper, FS is amazing)

Shemsu.8721:

100% wrong. The D/P “Perma” stealth build is not affected by this change since they never have to leave stealth. Only the patient CnD using thieves are hit by this

tbh every x/D will be hit … from the most culling abuser CnD waiter to the most aggressive thief that uses CnD to stealth stomp, and restealth to another target doing 1v2+

I think we’ll see a lot of 0 0 30 20 20 condi thieves since you have more mobility that cna help cover those 3 seconds.

Atticus.7194:

mixu.4281:

So, I happened to stop by the GW2 State of the Game stream just in time for their discussion on thieves. Apparently, ANET plans to change stealth so that it applies the revealed buff, regardless if you hit something or not.

Discuss.

Good change, also prevents thieves from having infinite stealth inside forts and castles and running around untouchable for 45 min.

Um yeah. They already patched the whole CnD off walls thing.

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

seriously, we are talking about punishing thieves for repeatedly using their defensive ability here.

This may come as news to you, but thieves have more than 1 defensive ability in their arsenal.

Perfect example of a stealth crutch player who has no concept of dodges, blinds, or evades.

EasymodeX.4062:

seriously, we are talking about punishing thieves for repeatedly using their defensive ability here.

This may come as news to you, but thieves have more than 1 defensive ability in their arsenal.

Perfect example of a stealth crutch player who has no concept of dodges, blinds, or evades.

While you’re right, dodges, blinds and evades don’t trigger all the traits in the Shadow arts tree. It’s not the end of the world, but these changes will weaken our best healing and condition removal traits, if just a bit.

evilapprentice.6379:

EasymodeX.4062:

seriously, we are talking about punishing thieves for repeatedly using their defensive ability here.

This may come as news to you, but thieves have more than 1 defensive ability in their arsenal.

Perfect example of a stealth crutch player who has no concept of dodges, blinds, or evades.

While you’re right, dodges, blinds and evades don’t trigger all the traits in the Shadow arts tree. It’s not the end of the world, but these changes will weaken our best healing and condition removal traits, if just a bit.

“Just a bit.”

Shemsu.8721:

100% wrong. The D/P “Perma” stealth build is not affected by this change since they never have to leave stealth. Only the patient CnD using thieves are hit by this

maybe you take 3 sec to produce stealth with the combo
for a lot of us that’s eternity
l2 kitten ue

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet - You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players - wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players - Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players - Who cares...

P/P Players - Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch...

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P - PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P - too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D - condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P - semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

What about S/P?

SilverWF.4789:

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P – PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P – too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D – condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P – semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

dont forget about the boon hate, we can use their boons to our advantage

Oldgrimm.8521:

SilverWF.4789:

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P – PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P – too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D – condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P – semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

dont forget about the boon hate, we can use their boons to our advantage

1% extra damage per boon vs protection (33% Damage reduction after all damage is calculated.)

Oldgrimm.8521:

SilverWF.4789:

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P – PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P – too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D – condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P – semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

dont forget about the boon hate, we can use their boons to our advantage

If special traited to steal boons. Dunno, but I dislike that kind of builds – there is a lot of mesmers to recieve all boons ^^

SilverWF.4789:

Oldgrimm.8521:

SilverWF.4789:

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P – PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P – too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D – condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P – semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

dont forget about the boon hate, we can use their boons to our advantage

If special traited to steal boons. Dunno, but I dislike that kind of builds – there is a lot of mesmers to recieve all boons ^^

You have to be a condition thief to have boon steal, wishes our class mechanic tree had a stat we shared.

Daecollo.9578:

Oldgrimm.8521:

SilverWF.4789:

Sifu.6527:

To summarize this thread:

Anet – You will get reveal debuff everytime now when leaving stealth. We did this because it is imbalance in WvW although we said we weren’t going to make balancing decisions based on what happens in WvW. Suckers!

D/D Players – wtf man, this nerf will hit us hard! kitten you Anet!

S/D Players – Oh stfu D/D players, learn to play.

D/P and P/D Players – Who cares…

P/P Players – Where the kitten are the buffs you promised me!!!

Until next patch…

and only D/D reliable for WvW.
S/P – PVE-stuff. Who will stay under #3?? Only mobs or noobs
D/P – too: who will stay in the #5? Only noobs or mobs.
P/D – condition thief, very rare and nearly useless for WvW
S/D & P/P – semi-PVE builds, rare too

So, they hit to the most popular WvW builds. Great.

How about just remove endless protection and regeneration buffs from the D/D Elems? This will be much more useful

dont forget about the boon hate, we can use their boons to our advantage

1% extra damage per boon vs protection (33% Damage reduction after all damage is calculated.)

we are not yet sure about boon hate mechanics, but at least boons have a counter when it is implemented

Infiltrator’s Strike → Flanking Strike … very simple. IF immobilizes for 1 second. That’s plenty of time.

This is what is called “comboing skills”. I know most thieves are aware of it since initiative lets you spam your favorite button, but this is how other classes are played.

Flank Strike also gives you control over your character after the initial first hit, so you can move/turn/etc. a bit before the second swing of Flanking Strike.

Sword damage is good but you aren’t as bursty as a dagger since you can’t simply get someone to 50% and spam noobseeker.

However, sword auto-attack is putting both cripple and weakness on your target. Helps you easily stay on your target and reduces the damage they can do back to you.

If you’re a fan of the stealth gamplay, while Sword’s tactical strike isn’t as much damage as backstab, it is still good damage and dazes your target for 2 seconds (from behind) or blinds them (not from behind). This helps you stay alive during those 3 seconds of reveal. Heck, if you daze them for 2 seconds each time, that’s only 1 second they can attack before you can stealth again. This is awesome and I love using it.

Making good use of Infiltrator’s Strike and Shadow Return helps quite a bit too.

Sebrent.3625:

Infiltrator’s Strike -> Flanking Strike … very simple. IF immobilizes for 1 second. That’s plenty of time.

This is what is called “comboing skills”. I know most thieves are aware of it since initiative lets you spam your favorite button, but this is how other classes are played.

Flank Strike also gives you control over your character after the initial first hit, so you can move/turn/etc. a bit before the second swing of Flanking Strike.

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Sword damage is good but you aren’t as bursty as a dagger since you can’t simply get someone to 50% and spam noobseeker.

However, sword auto-attack is putting both cripple and weakness on your target. Helps you easily stay on your target and reduces the damage they can do back to you.

If you’re a fan of the stealth gamplay, while Sword’s tactical strike isn’t as much damage as backstab, it is still good damage and dazes your target for 2 seconds (from behind) or blinds them (not from behind). This helps you stay alive during those 3 seconds of reveal. Heck, if you daze them for 2 seconds each time, that’s only 1 second they can attack before you can stealth again. This is awesome and I love using it.

Making good use of Infiltrator’s Strike and Shadow Return helps quite a bit too.

Again – It doesn’t matter how many ways you can get FS To work – the point is it should work on its own. It shouldn’t be a requirement that your target be Immobilized or crippled or chilled…the pathing should just work correctly, because at 6 months in, it’s ridiculous to have skills that still don’t work on a base level. Maybe I didn’t want to FS right after my IS – maybe there weren’t any good boons to pull, or my target wasn’t blocking, or I wasn’t evading anything. What do I do if all of a sudden I need to FS, and I’ve got shadowreturn up? Spend 5 init and valuable time just to make sure FS path’s correctly? It would be a different story if FS was designed to be hard to hit, like say Churning earth – the ability is so telegraphed and long to cast because it’s extremely powerful – its acceptable for an Ele to have to use lightning flash to actually get it to hit. FS is not in that boat.

15 points in DA with a dagger applies weakness much more quickly and reliably than sword, while also applying poison. Cripple would be nice, but with shadowshot fixed (and a staple of defensive play thanks to the blind), it’s far from necessary. If your target stays in melee, weakness + BP from D/P mitigates way more damage than weakness from sword’s AA 3.

D/P doesn’t need HS to out damage Sword – it does that by itself. In fact, I barely use HS outside of gaining stealth – shadowshot hits the target faster if you’re close enough, blinds, and does (better at 50%+, only slightly less at 25-50%) damage when your target isn’t under 25%. If HS isn’t going to kill my target, I’ll almost always opt for Shadowshot because it allows me to AA unmolested for longer thanks to the blind.

Headshot is no where near the control skill that Tactical strike is, but it’s a million times better an interrupt (because you don’t have to be in stealth AND behind your target to get it off).

Again, Dagger MH has nothing that compares to IS – it really is an awesome skill. Its not awesome enough to cover up how sub-par the rest of Sword mainhand is though.