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Venomshare vs Zerk (Dungeons)
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Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr
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(edited by babazhook.6805)
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I find a Condi build takes down trash mobs faster then a power build.
I am testing d/d in a condition build focused on poison using Orr runes. Each DB can inflict up to 9 total stacks of bleeds and one can generally get 4 or 5 of these off against a mob before INI out.
Assuming 5 this means some 45 total stacks of bleed.
How do you get 9 stacks? its 3 stacks per death blossom (you can apply that on up to 3 targets but its no more than 3 stacks per target). IF you use an earth sigil (60% chance bleed on crit for 5s) you may get upto 6 stacks if you are very lucky (but normally its closer to 4 or 5). But those earth sigil stacks will run out twice as quick as the DB ones. Thieves have no traits which grant bleed on hit/ crit. As such, the DB + Caltrops rota caps out at 35 ish bleeds max (and to achieve even that you may need the uncatchable trait).
Solo roaming and trash mobs are definitely best dealt with zerker S/P because of cleaves and blinds. However, with bosses, I do agree that I am finding, especially for longer fights, VS fights are quicker/ better. But the latter still relies on your group being close together, in pugs, if they spread out e.g. Mai Trin then the loss in dps is very noticeable.
As I pug a a lot these days, I tend to keep my sinister set in the cupboard. Also note, zerker gear is much better for solo roaming 95% of the time (the exceptions are if you encounter husks or difficult [read: hard/fast hitting] mobs).
You answered your own question. When I am talking about total stacks of bleeds it exactly that.
1 death Blossom attacks up to 3 enemies 3 times each and applies 3 stacks of bleed to each . Thats 9 total stacks. It is an AOE attack and when fighting a group I want to take them all down as quickly as possible.
With dagger training your percentage chance of inflicting a poison goes way up because you are in essence making 9 seperate attacks.
As to SP it also a good choice for fast take down of mobs but I dont see it as a lot faster then a condi build especially if you run with one or two other people. You click on that VS even with one other in your party and your damage output goes way way up.
Addd to that, I just think doing a DB over a pack of ten wolves is more fun then blind and cleave. Personal preference
it one of our nicer animations. I have also been jumped on when solo flipping camps when all my stuff on CD and one or two enemy sneak up on me. It real nice to get a rally before they down you because one or two of the guards just bled out.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
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(edited by Scootabuser.4915)
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[rT]
(edited by Anubarak.3012)
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I find a Condi build takes down trash mobs faster then a power build.
I am testing d/d in a condition build focused on poison using Orr runes. Each DB can inflict up to 9 total stacks of bleeds and one can generally get 4 or 5 of these off against a mob before INI out.
Assuming 5 this means some 45 total stacks of bleed.
How do you get 9 stacks? its 3 stacks per death blossom (you can apply that on up to 3 targets but its no more than 3 stacks per target). IF you use an earth sigil (60% chance bleed on crit for 5s) you may get upto 6 stacks if you are very lucky (but normally its closer to 4 or 5). But those earth sigil stacks will run out twice as quick as the DB ones. Thieves have no traits which grant bleed on hit/ crit. As such, the DB + Caltrops rota caps out at 35 ish bleeds max (and to achieve even that you may need the uncatchable trait).
Solo roaming and trash mobs are definitely best dealt with zerker S/P because of cleaves and blinds. However, with bosses, I do agree that I am finding, especially for longer fights, VS fights are quicker/ better. But the latter still relies on your group being close together, in pugs, if they spread out e.g. Mai Trin then the loss in dps is very noticeable.
As I pug a a lot these days, I tend to keep my sinister set in the cupboard. Also note, zerker gear is much better for solo roaming 95% of the time (the exceptions are if you encounter husks or difficult [read: hard/fast hitting] mobs).
You answered your own question. When I am talking about total stacks of bleeds it exactly that.
1 death Blossom attacks up to 3 enemies 3 times each and applies 3 stacks of bleed to each . Thats 9 total stacks. It is an AOE attack and when fighting a group I want to take them all down as quickly as possible.
With dagger training your percentage chance of inflicting a poison goes way up because you are in essence making 9 seperate attacks.
As to SP it also a good choice for fast take down of mobs but I dont see it as a lot faster then a condi build especially if you run with one or two other people. You click on that VS even with one other in your party and your damage output goes way way up.
Addd to that, I just think doing a DB over a pack of ten wolves is more fun then blind and cleave. Personal preference
I see what you were getting at but the way you phrased it was misleading to me, as to me, stacks mean how many stacks on each enemy not your cumulative stacks on multiple enemies. So if someone says they can apply 30 stacks of bleed, that’s 30 stacks on a single target to me, not 10 stacks on 3 targets or 6 stacks on 5 targets. A bit like if someone says they can hit a hundred blades for 60k, to me that’s 60k on a single target, not 20k per target and up to 3 targets.
Also, for trash, yeah DB can be fun but most trash dies in <5s, physical damage is all ‘upfront’ as such it is noticeably quicker than condi (even accounting for venomshare) – to me, approx 10-20% which is like 1-2s a fight that adds up over time. Don’t get me wrong, it is fully possible to condi whole dungeons/ fractals, but really short fights are still outshone by physical dps. And the blinds help your parties a lot with harder hitting trash.
Thanks for clarifying btw.
I find a Condi build takes down trash mobs faster then a power build.
I am testing d/d in a condition build focused on poison using Orr runes. Each DB can inflict up to 9 total stacks of bleeds and one can generally get 4 or 5 of these off against a mob before INI out.
Assuming 5 this means some 45 total stacks of bleed.
How do you get 9 stacks? its 3 stacks per death blossom (you can apply that on up to 3 targets but its no more than 3 stacks per target). IF you use an earth sigil (60% chance bleed on crit for 5s) you may get upto 6 stacks if you are very lucky (but normally its closer to 4 or 5). But those earth sigil stacks will run out twice as quick as the DB ones. Thieves have no traits which grant bleed on hit/ crit. As such, the DB + Caltrops rota caps out at 35 ish bleeds max (and to achieve even that you may need the uncatchable trait).
Solo roaming and trash mobs are definitely best dealt with zerker S/P because of cleaves and blinds. However, with bosses, I do agree that I am finding, especially for longer fights, VS fights are quicker/ better. But the latter still relies on your group being close together, in pugs, if they spread out e.g. Mai Trin then the loss in dps is very noticeable.
As I pug a a lot these days, I tend to keep my sinister set in the cupboard. Also note, zerker gear is much better for solo roaming 95% of the time (the exceptions are if you encounter husks or difficult [read: hard/fast hitting] mobs).
You answered your own question. When I am talking about total stacks of bleeds it exactly that.
1 death Blossom attacks up to 3 enemies 3 times each and applies 3 stacks of bleed to each . Thats 9 total stacks. It is an AOE attack and when fighting a group I want to take them all down as quickly as possible.
With dagger training your percentage chance of inflicting a poison goes way up because you are in essence making 9 seperate attacks.
As to SP it also a good choice for fast take down of mobs but I dont see it as a lot faster then a condi build especially if you run with one or two other people. You click on that VS even with one other in your party and your damage output goes way way up.
Addd to that, I just think doing a DB over a pack of ten wolves is more fun then blind and cleave. Personal preference
I see what you were getting at but the way you phrased it was misleading to me, as to me, stacks mean how many stacks on each enemy not your cumulative stacks on multiple enemies. So if someone says they can apply 30 stacks of bleed, that’s 30 stacks on a single target to me, not 10 stacks on 3 targets or 6 stacks on 5 targets. A bit like if someone says they can hit a hundred blades for 60k, to me that’s 60k on a single target, not 20k per target and up to 3 targets.
Also, for trash, yeah DB can be fun but most trash dies in <5s, physical damage is all ‘upfront’ as such it is noticeably quicker than condi (even accounting for venomshare) – to me, approx 10-20% which is like 1-2s a fight that adds up over time. Don’t get me wrong, it is fully possible to condi whole dungeons/ fractals, but really short fights are still outshone by physical dps. And the blinds help your parties a lot with harder hitting trash.
Thanks for clarifying btw.
Ah we still talk at cross purposes. When I am talking about taking out trash mobs I am talking Multiple enemies. Yes I realize against a single target POWER builds will take something out faster. I am not talking about single enemies. I am talking about 6 or more grouped together. This is why 9 stacks of bleed per db pertinent as I do not care which of those enemy dies first, I want to kill them all.
I have run this over and over again using power builds and a Condi build and see little to no difference.
I do not do fractals a lot so am unaware of the nature of the enemy there.
So as example flipping a camp in WvW. I take down all the enemy as fast in a Condi build. gather them to me , drop caltrops, do a few DBS over top and they are dropping.
As to Venomshare I find when it comes to taking down the Champion in the lords room he goes down faster to my condition build using VA on a full group then were I to focus on power. You can get poison ticks to 8k plus which happen every second. Due to the share this builds up very very fast. If I add in bleeds /torment we are well over 10k damage per second .