Guild Wars 2

Sup guys,

An idea for a little psychological experiment hit me and I’m hoping that some of you guys could help out.

What I’m looking to find is what its like fighting against a Mesmer (Shatter, Lockdown, and/or Condi) as a Warrior? I have a few questions going forward:

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?

• Strategies and tactics?

• Which type of Thief build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

• What Thief skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?

Along with anything else you’d like to add. My plan is to make a thread in the Mes forums detailing and explaining how fighting us feels for other classes, and hopefully learn some things along the way. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

In my experience (4/4/6 Lockdown Mesmer) Thieves are.. well, Thieves. Even though Lockdown has a better chance vs them than Shatter, it is still a nightmare of a battle. If the Mes hasn’t played Thief or extensively fought them then it’s practically a guaranteed loss. Most of the time, it comes down to a lucky or particularly well-timed interrupt or two (and fire proc) but without that interrupt, it’s almost always GG. =/

P/D thief, so I’m mostly talking WvW. All I have to do is stay on the real one. If they land their burst or interrupt, I’m just going to Shadowstep or Blinding Powder my way to resetting. If they can’t land one due to skill/burst, then it’s just a matter of time until I wear them down.

So, stay on the real one. C&D off the clones. Watch to dodge the GS push when you use Love Shack.

Mesmer always looks fun, until I play it. You got to look out for the ones hold their interrupts until the best/worst times and the ones that always seem to shatter when I’m trying to C&D off the poofs.

This is from a perspective of someone using D/D mainly against mesmers.

Depending on the mesmer’s skill, it’ll usually go either way really quickly at least against a lockdown or shatter build. With condi ones, I’ll usually CnD off a clone, and then just wait out the scepter block and then CnD of of them.

As WildKat mentioned, the really good ones just react to your moves and punish attempts at offense. If the thief is D/P, you need to keep a clone between you and the thief so that shadowshot will hit that instead. If you get hit by the projectile from black powder, you need to clear that quickly with greatsword auto and be ready to use an interrupt when they heartseeker through the field. They’ll be out a bunch of initiative and decently vulnerable. Try to bait out shadowstep (and the return) before you commit to a burst. If they do get into stealth, there’s multiple things you can do depending on your build.

If you have mainhand sword, you can blurred frenzy and then dodge after it finishes if you see the “evade” phase pop up. The objective is to make them backstab a clone with deceptive evasion, revealing themselves in the process.

The offhand sword block deals a decent amount of damage back to the thief and spawns a clone as well for them to hopefully hit(but you should still dodge after the skill finishes).

Against offhand dagger thieves, try not to leave clones up or else they’ll just run around CnDing off of them until they get an opportune moment to strike.

1. What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?
-The same thing that comes to mind when fighting any other profession, trying to as quickly as possible notice all the little things that could reveal what build they have and how skilled they are.
2. How do you feel about your odds of winning?
-Depends on what I gathered from my first thoughts answered in the first question, just as I would any other profession.
3. Strategies and tactics?
-Depends on my currently build, followed by adjusting depending on what I’ve learned from them in last few seconds.
4. Which type of Thief build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
-This changes greatly between mesmer builds.
5. What Thief skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?
-This feels silly to answer.
6. How do you feel about Mesmer in general? I respect them more than I respect warriors, guardians, necros, rangers…. Skill level needed just to be effective is greater than those 4. Don’t rage, I was asked and I honestly answered.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?

I wonder if it is condition or power, then secondarily, PU.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?

I feel generally very good, though sometimes I just faceplant for them. I mean just one shot from the first frenzy combo etc lol. When we are both on our game I really enjoy the fights as I am certainly not great.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Strategies and tactics?

Keep gaps closed, don’t waste my step, don’t miss my steal, and stay invisible longer than them, if applicable. As mainly a DD player it’s not that hard, but pu… I normally walk away, because it’s boring, kinda like our 6shadow arts builds (mostly).

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Which type of Thief build do you feel best fights Mesmer?

Any the thief is comfortable with, if he has encountered and learned how to fight a mesmer before. It’s possible to condibomb as a thief, kinda, but will generally end the fight faster than a condition thief.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• What Thief skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?

As above, any the thief is comfortable with. Just like you guys (power scepter? wtf? oh crap they are good (blocked my daggerstorm reflected AA3 chain lol… well played)).

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?

I enjoy them and need to learn more about them. I have tried playing my 80 recently, but I dislike your condition builds, and I have a lot to learn about the tiny nuances involved with multiple power shatter weapons/build combinations. I normally just log my thief though.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Along with anything else you’d like to add. My plan is to make a thread in the Mes forums detailing and explaining how fighting us feels for other classes, and hopefully learn some things along the way. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

As a new player it was confusing watching you guys disappear (even as a thief main, after a mesmer being my first character to 36 and then deleting). Once I learned the fairly obvious real mesmer it became a cinch, then it was just refining how to kill you guys. Lockdown, and the ones I don’t notice give me the most problems. If I know you are around though I am normally not concerned.

Personally I hate running into your condition specs (but I slot very little removal most time and I accept that). But if I had to choose a weapon, it would be sword/x(probably focus if I had to choose an offhand), and staff. The amount of juking and invuln frames available with your class mechanics and weaponset is just on par with us

Hope this was beneficial.

Hi, I play a D/P thief in GW2 sPvP. I’ll try to answer these questions from the point of view of a D/P Executioner as well as an AcroTrickery S/D.

• What is the first thing that comes to mind when you’re about to face a Mesmer?
  As D/P: 90% of the Mesmers are easy kill. Irrespective of Shatter or Phantasm. Against good mesmers, it’s about what kind of an opening you get, as a burst followed by Shortbow spam is really effective. However, if you get torch 5’d, GS 2 wrack, you have to disengage so I suppose it really depends on who gets the better opening and who can bait out better.
  As S/D: 100% of the mesmers are easy kill.

• How do you feel about your odds of winning?
  As D/P: It’s the one class I feel pretty confident about winning against.
  As S/D: Lul.

• Strategies and tactics?
  As D/P: Really depends on the weapon set they use and how they cycle through their CDs. As an opener against GS, the standard Blinding Powder + Infil Signet + Steal + Auto into HS is quite decent and will force a Decoy or Blink. Continue to chain stealth at this point and let the mesmer go through defensive CDs (like Blurred Frenzy, Riposte or dodges). Upon re-engage, mesmer will definitely Distort or Phase Retreat. If you’ve landed your burst, switch to Shortbow and make sure the poison sticks and gg. The fight comes down to if you can land your burst, so it’s important to know your opponent. The mind games in this match-up are extremely satisfying.
  As S/D: Infil strike/return trolls.

• Which type of Thief build do you feel best fights Mesmer?
  S/D AcroTrickery.

• What Thief skills (weapon or utility) are most important to have in this fight?
  Withdraw is amazing here but I’ve only ever fought mesmers with Hide in Shadows, Shadowstep, Infiltrator’s Signet, Shadow Refuge, Basilisk Venom. I couldn’t imagine any other combination that would work better – maybe Devourer’s Venom over IfilSig or Refuge.

• How do you feel about Mesmer in general?
  Mesmers are an annoying class for any class that’s not a thief. The burst damage, the kiting potential and the range damage they have is a combination no other class has. Thankfully, as a thief, I can stick on them like flies and have stealth myself to avoid getting stealth-bursted along with burst so I can pressure them enough. What do I feel about mesmers in general? Hunt them down, always. In terms of 1v1s, I’ll add that a fight between a good D/P and an excellent shatter can be extremely fun because of the mind games that ensue with baiting/counter-baiting CDs.

I agree with everything Rome said, and I’ll add a few things from a DP perspective:
-after my opening (which can be an opening with or without Steal – I never like to open with Steal on DP unless I know that the added damage guarantee a downed) they usually go into Stealth with Decoy. At this moment, I’ll just swap to Shortbow, dodge the (100% guaranteed) Mirror Blade and Cluster Bomb the area. This will 90% of the times force a Distortion, followed usually by a Healing Skill.
Now, if I opened with Steal, I will use the Stolen ability now and proceed to faceroll them. If I did not open with Steal, I will either try to interrupt the Heal (assuming Distortion is not used or is over before the cast time finishes) or use it right after the heal (99% of the people feel “safe” enough after using their Heal ability so that’s the best moment to use Steal if you are not sure to land it).

I usually dont use any of the utilities to kill a Mesmer (Shatter or Phantasm) in PvP, UNLESS they get the engage on me (it will force a Shadowstep). If the mesmer is REALLY, and I mean REALLY good (99% of the mesmers aren’t), I could also use Refuge on top of them to immobilize them or get a quick Backstab.

Remember, I’m talking from a sPvP perspective. In a true duel (without the need to hold points or without the “clean” engage that usually a Thief can do on a Mesmer) the use of Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge can become more important. However, in a PvP match I almost never have all my utilities ready (since I use them mostly for mobility), so there are more things to consider when engaging a 1v1 with a Mesmer, even if they are an easy prey.

I will answer your questions in the order the were asked:

1st That guy better be good or he is dead meat.

2nd Hmmm, maybe he could win if he plays all out shatter and gets the jump on me…. Nah.

3rd I do not use stuff like strategies and tactics, I react to what happens.

4th Anything with mainhand sword is basically an I win button for the thief (with the exception that an all outshatter mesmer can win if he gets the jump on the thief). Sword 1 chain cleave basically hardcounters the clones and still hits the mesmer.

5th none really just do not play D/D power as thief.

6th Mesmers need serious buffs. 1st invisibility needs to stack like stealth. 2nd clones and phantasms need to be usable without a target, they should be summoned and aquire a target as soon as the mesmer aquires a target. 3rd cd on portals and timewarp need to be halved. 5th Illusionary mage needs to do damage, and all “projectiles” need to have their speed increased to the level of long bow projectiles. 6th Blink needs a 1200 base range.
Bugs need to be fixed…

(edit) P.S.: I wish do add that the whole mesmer vs thief thing is just a example of a underlying balance issue in this game, AoE is way to efficacious untargeted skills are way to efficacious and missing those does not get punnished hard enough.
Sword 1 chain on thieves vs shatter f1 is just 1 minor example, it is like 90% of all ele skills vs backstab, or the entire kitten nal of Guardian AoE spam vs anything D/x can do on thieves.