Guild Wars 2

Hey guys !

this post is just to initiate a talk about the margin given to the devs regarding weapon sets balance and flavoring for build diversity. It’s only focused on the weapon sets, not affected by any traits. Just keep in mind that I’m a main PvP player, so my insight may be biased by that.

Edit: Currently, this is what I think the weapon sets stand for.

- For each weapon ( I’m not considering skill #3 for 1 handed weapons) :

• Staff : damage flavour
• Shortbow : Utility – Condi flavour

• Dagger main hand : damage flavour
• Sword main hand : damage – utility flavour
• Pistol main hand : a mix of condi – damage – utility flavour

• Pistol off hand : Utility flavour
• Dagger off hand : Utility flavour

- The skill #3 for each 2 weapons set :

• Dagger / Pistol : damage – utility flavour
• Dagger / Dagger: a mix of condi – utility – damage
• Pistol / Dagger : a mix of damage – condi – utility flavour
• Pistol / Pistol : damage flavour
• sword / Dagger : damage flavour
• sword / Pistol : damage flavour

- Weapon set flavour :

• Staff : Damage flavour
• Shortbow : Utility – condi flavour
• Dagger / Pistol : Damage – utility flavour
• Dagger / Dagger : Damage – utility flavour
• Sword / Pistol : Damage – utility flavour
• Sword / Dagger : Damage – utility flavour
• Pistol / Pistol : Damage – utility flavour
• Pistol / Dagger : Condi – damage flavour

This is 5 out of 8 Damage / utility sets, 1 damage set, 1 hybrid condi – damage set and one utility – condi set.

Thief don’t have a fully condi oriented weapon set. The most ambiguous weapon is the pistol main hand. It has no defined identity, trying to play in both condi and damage field.
Defining pistol main hand as a fully condi weapon would allow two things :

- Both p/p and p/d to become fully fledge condi builds.
- More freedom in #3 skills balance.

I have the feeling weapon sets are the easier parts to balance compared to traits. And that’s where devs can have the more freedom and stability in balancing.
I’ve said it before but, balancing can also be achieved by more effective build diversity.

What do you guys think ?

I wanted to try p/p in a fully hybrid set and then shifted to the condition side where it works very well. That said the weaponset only becomes that when the proper utilities and traits selected .

This being taking pressure strike so as to make headshot into a condition skill, and taking some venoms so as to allow the further application of damaging conditions. You then spike up how hard your conditions spike via unload and in fact get more use out of #2 simply by virtue of the fact you usually have longer durations on your conditions. (for that vuln/immob).

In WvW I am finding this very effective as p/p #3 also leads to further synergy with your impaling lotus condition applications. Coupling a dodge using impaling with a preload of say spider venom so more condition stacks, and then turning to do an unload is very effective. From a percentage viewpoint might stacking helps conditions moreso than power.

Understanding that you wanted to focus on the sets themselves and not factor in the traits, and not totally disagreeing with the suggestion a bit more might be done in the way of balancing the sets , I am not sure you can totally divorce traits and utilities from the sets themselves when trying to make assessments as to the ability of a given set to be used in a build type effectively.

Wargameur.6950:

• Dagger / Pistol : damage – utility flavour

Without changing the traits at the same time, changes like that will not work out since trait like Dagger Training will add condition damage to this set, for example, the it will be an unintended imbalance.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Wargameur.6950:

• Dagger / Pistol : damage – utility flavour

Without changing the traits at the same time, changes like that will not work out since trait like Dagger Training will add condition damage to this set, for example, the it will be an unintended imbalance.

Isn’t it what the traits are for ? Of course committing a trait or a trait line toward a different gameplay should have this effect.

What I wanted to highlight is that we should have solid weapon sets first, and above all something coherent. To me the damages weapon sets are coherent both in flavouring and in balance. The problem, is that every main hand pistol sets aren’t coherent.

because pistol main hand is a mix of every thing. It makes p/d a hybrid set that is not competitive in every aspect of the game. And p/p is a power set only because of unload.

I feel like, it would be nice to have a broader choice of condi sets, that can be considered as such as a stand alone. Then you can tweak them into something else with traits.

Wargameur.6950:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Wargameur.6950:

• Dagger / Pistol : damage – utility flavour

Without changing the traits at the same time, changes like that will not work out since trait like Dagger Training will add condition damage to this set, for example, the it will be an unintended imbalance.

Isn’t it what the traits are for ? Of course committing a trait or a trait line toward a different gameplay should have this effect.

What I wanted to highlight is that we should have solid weapon sets first, and above all something coherent. To me the damages weapon sets are coherent both in flavouring and in balance. The problem, is that every main hand pistol sets aren’t coherent.

because pistol main hand is a mix of every thing. It makes p/d a hybrid set that is not competitive in every aspect of the game. And p/p is a power set only because of unload.

I feel like, it would be nice to have a broader choice of condi sets, that can be considered as such as a stand alone. Then you can tweak them into something else with traits.

My point is; changing the flavor of the set to focus on something specific won’t necessarily keep that flavor of the set due to effects from the traits, which makes the whole exercise useless.

If the weapon set’s flavor will be focused, then it is also necessary for the traits to also changed at the same time to keep and maintain that focus on a weapon set…meaning, if you don’t intend for daggers to deal condition damage, traits like Dagger Training needs to go away. Giving condition damage to a physical damage set will undermine the flavor and focus of other weapon set designed for condition damage. D/P is such a good weapon set that I even use it for condition damage build even though it is mainly a power build.

In addition, utility skills that add condition damage to a non-condition damage set, or power to a condition damage set needs to be redesigned to only function as non-damage skills — which means, spider venom and assassin signet need to be redesigned so that they won;t undermine the flavor of the weapon sets.

The bottom line is, the Thief profession is all about hybrid, adapting to the situation they are in. They are not about power focus or condition damage focus, they are both that can be tweak whenever towards one type of damage to another. If the Thief needs extra physical damage boost, they pop the assassin signet; if they need extra condition damage boost, they pop spider venom. Both situations need to be effective because, in my opinion, Thief is a balance tipper or tie breaker and they need to stay that way.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The bottom line is, the Thief profession is all about hybrid, adapting to the situation they are in. They are not about power focus or condition damage focus, they are both that can be tweak whenever towards one type of damage to another. If the Thief needs extra physical damage boost, they pop the assassin signet; if they need extra condition damage boost, they pop spider venom. Both situations need to be effective because, in my opinion, Thief is a balance tipper or tie breaker and they need to stay that way.

Since swapping weapons doesn’t affect a Thief as much as it does other professions, I wish the Thief could have the ability to use a separate amulet (PvP) for each weapon set just like sigils, or something along those lines, giving the Thief even more ability to adapt.

Kageseigi.2150:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The bottom line is, the Thief profession is all about hybrid, adapting to the situation they are in. They are not about power focus or condition damage focus, they are both that can be tweak whenever towards one type of damage to another. If the Thief needs extra physical damage boost, they pop the assassin signet; if they need extra condition damage boost, they pop spider venom. Both situations need to be effective because, in my opinion, Thief is a balance tipper or tie breaker and they need to stay that way.

Since swapping weapons doesn’t affect a Thief as much as it does other professions, I wish the Thief could have the ability to use a separate amulet (PvP) for each weapon set just like sigils, or something along those lines, giving the Thief even more ability to adapt.

That would be a sight. However, the restrictions they have placed in PvP is very anti-Thief, that’s why they are busting their brains trying to make the Thief fit when instead, they should probably re-think the PvP system. They need to stop trying to shave off a square block’s corner to fit a circular hole.