Guild Wars 2

As a melee class that wears toilet tissue for armor and has very limited damage mitigation and healing…why is a 11K pool justified?

The 11K pool is shared among ele’s and guardians… Both of those classes can heal and mitigate damage.

With the pew pew pew pew ranger skill now…That low health pool and useless stealth (as pew pew pew pew ignores the fact you are stealthed or too far away) makes you a one button kill.

Stealth, dodge and blind. Not necessarily in that order.

Same reason warrior has the highest health and armor rating, because they can.

Thief isn’t the only victim of low health pool, the whole health teir system is out of whack with such massive as massive range it limits build options for some professions and eliminates build requirements for others.

Because stealth is SUPPOSED to be one of thief’s damage mitigations. Unlike other classes’ damage mitigation however, stealth doesn’t actually stop damage or reduce it. It just makes it harder for people of lower skill to hit you. This means channeled skills and pretty much any AoE, will still hit you in stealth, making it effectively useless for reducing damage.

Because someone needs to be the loot bag.

Any more complaints about this, and they will nerf our base health to 9.5 and buff traps and venoms.

Smoke screen is good

Thieves wear medium armor the same as ranger and engie and better than mes/necro/ele I don’t think its justifiable to pass it off as toilet tissue :P

Though yea it doesn’t seem like the defensive mechanics for a thief really help much against a ranger but I guess that’s just an uphill battle much in the same way like an engie vs necro etc.

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Sting like a hornet, die like a mosquito

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

Not even close. It depends on the gamemode and build obv, but speaking for dungeons and viable builds, thief has the highest dps. don’t forget that spike/burst damage counted for e.g. 10 seconds can still be more then continuous damage over these 10 seconds. Warrior dps is worse than thief, ele, engi and potentially ranger now.

Is there an actual way of measuring (heh…) the dps?

Recording repeatable rotations and then adding all the damage done in a timeframe is a possibility, or there is non so legal dps meters that are pretty reliable. And no, warriors doesn’t have the highest dps in the game, not even close. They are pretty highly ranked underwater though if you were wondering, they are first or second. If only grenades could hit underwater.

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

oxtred.7658:

Recording repeatable rotations and then adding all the damage done in a timeframe is a possibility, or there is non so legal dps meters that are pretty reliable. And no, warriors doesn’t have the highest dps in the game, not even close.

The only problem with repeatable rotations (while good at showing sustained DPS) is practicality. In most fights where you’re in a speedrun group, you will barely do one full rotation, depending on length. In fights where you’re not in a speedrun group, you also have to manage dodges, repositioning, and mitigation.

For the most part, this simply means buffer time inside your rotation which you can count as auto attack loss (but if you’re playing a Revealed Training Thief, the buffer time on Evasion significantly hurts your damage output and therefore your DPS).

I thank you for not having Warrior OP Goggles and stating that they aren’t the best, however it’s nearly impossible to track realistic sustained DPS.

This isn’t particularly aimed at you, oxtred, simply everyone else with WOPggles.
I suppose rotation DPS is fine, compared to Burst potential. Both of which Warrior is not as strong as Thief, especially when you bring in Ele Weapons (Improvisation 2gud).

Necromancer has roughly the same DPS as Warrior, ironically. The reason why Necromancer isn’t brough in speedrun and normal (for the most part) groups is because they’re a selfish Profession and bring relatively nothing to the table. Engineers can bring much, much more Vulnerability which is about all that the Necromancer will uniquely bring (because DPS isn’t particularly unique).

Mesmer also has DPS rivaling Thief and Elementalist in the perfect scenario’s (theoretical sustained DPS vs targets that don’t kill Phantasms). 3 Duelists with Fury, reduced attack cooldown, paired with standard Assassin’s gear (100% crit chance with Banner/Spotter/Food) means you’re maintaining 23-25 stacks of Bleeding on the opponent at all times, depending on the stagger. With 25 Might, this actually accounts for a lot. The DPS loss from the Duelist DPS compared to Swordsman is more than made up for it from the Bleeding (and no, if you’re running a typical party, you’re not going to have many people applying Bleeds). The bleeding by itself, without any Might, is roughly 1k dps. I forgot the exact number for the duelist additional DPS, and that’s still a pitiful number. Then you account for Mesmer damage (which isn’t a lot, but it adds up).

Guardian rotation can outDPS a Warrior rotation, however it relies on being extremely squishy and not helping your allies with Aegis rotations, so you’re effectively playing a Thief without evasion/blinds/stealth.

Engineer rotation hits hard, and is slightly higher than Warrior, the last time I checked, depending on your rotation. If you’re Bomb camping, you’ll definitely beat the Warrior. If you’re nadecamping for Vuln, you won’t be outdpsing the Warrior, but the effective damage increase you get from stacking Vuln is a lot more than a Warrior would bring (stacking Warriors that is).

Each profession has it’s use in dungeons (sorry Necromancer, you don’t) in the party meta.

Elementalist can provide slight utility (projectile destruction), blasts (might + fury/healing/any field party provides), Elemental weapons, and destructive DPS.

Thieves can provide significant DPS (especially when paired with Ele weapons), blasts (any field party provides), roughly 45-50s of stealth without effort, more with practice, and potentially venomshare (although this is very, very niche), and blinds. Lots of blinds. Can also break defiance like a boss.

Engineers can provide 25 Vulnerability, blasts (can create stealth or might), and AoE party-wide minor utility with elixirs (depending).

Ranger can provide Spotter and Frost Spirit to improve party-wide DPS.

Guardian can provide Aegis and Projectile Reflect/Destruct. Also has higher DPS than Warrior, when in full damage.

Mesmer can provide Projectile Reflect/Destruct (higher uptime than Guardian with a single Mesmer, but more prone to disasters), Time Warp, and… butterflies…

Necromancers can provide a little, tiny bit of Vulnerability. More than most other professions, but not enough to justify bringing them. With only one blast (on a 40 second teleportation cooldown), and low uptime on their little Vuln, you might as well slot an Engineer.

Of course, this is all assuming an experienced party.

In a solo environment, the entire utility of each of these professions changes drastically. While most professions retain their utility, some utility is brought out when solo, or lost when not in a party (and vice versa).

I just thought I’d explain why some of the “Warrior is master race” myths are false. That’s not to say they’re useful, easy, or bad. It’s simply to say that they have their place, and it’s not as the master race (honestly, if there had to be a profession to rule them all, it would be elementalist).

I guess I should leave, since I play Mesmer…

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

did a long post and it sounded stupid so nevermind

Yes, you’re perfectly right. I’m also totally aware of repeatable rotations limits, but they still give a general idea and reflect the overall ranking, even in actual runs. Now, no one really cares, as support is more important than raw dps, as your well explained post showed.

I have no idea why or even when I started theorycrafting GW2. I’m still a filthy casual, but thank you for your post.

And I think I didn’t do a good job explaining myself. I think my post was more for anyone not smart, like you and I, but more for the people talking with WOPggles (as I like to call them).

Repeatable rotations are the closest we can get to theoretical maximum DPS (after spreadsheets), which both have their own flaws. In reality, it’s simply making a speedrun group and running it firsthand.

I guess what my post is saying (again, not at you oxtred), is that eventually, you hit a point where you might need to swap out a profession to improve you runtime/efficiency in a speedrun (assuming everyone is doing their job near perfectly).

It’s possible to replace a Thief and Ele, even though they have high DPS because Support > DPS.

People just aren’t used to Support not being “Power Word: Shield”, “Rejuvenation”, and “+Intellect Buffs”.

Oh well, it’s hard to explain it to someone who doesn’t get deep into GW2.

some people would need a +intellect buff though. (oooooooh) ( yeah i found it fun)

Nothing serious to add as you covered everything. Are you in a speedrun guild already? ( yeah I’m derailing the thread, come at me )

Nope, I’m in a guild composed of me and IRL friends.. active player count: Me and 1 friend (super, super casual player).

My other 4 guilds are:
2 Personal Guilds simply for names.
1 Guild that I’m leaving soon (only there for an online friend who doesn’t like me anymore q.q)
1 Guild that I’m in because of a forum hero.

I’m NA. Also, my internet hiccups and my laptop sucks (8 fps vs Lupi is fun), so I use that as an excuse to fail and die.

Such derail, much thread, so wow.

Back on topic:
I think the health differences idea is fine, but I think the implementation is a little too… overbearing. It’s not typically noticeable, but Warrior and Necromancer health pool (in addition to effective health pool if you count in additional dodges/blocks/mitigation/etc [not counting standard 1roll/10s]) becomes pretty ridiculous in most cases.

It’s true that Warriors are super “easy” damage. But they’re not good damage. A party of 5 Warriors will clear through dungeons fast, but so will a group of 5 Thieves. It’s just one mistake and that’s a Thief down, whereas a Warrior can usually take 1-3 more hits than a Thief because the health pool difference (not even counting the negligible Toughness).

Well necromancers lack active defense so their higher hp pool is fine. In pve, it’s also fair ( i’d have mesmer in the lowest pool but that wouldn’t work for pvp as they are harder to play there). Most people complaining about the hp system are complaining about warriors, because they were supposed to be vulnerable to conditions, hence the higher hp pool and then.. something went wrong. < This was not a nerf warrior post.

(I use lag as an excuse too- it’s convenient)

With semi-baseline’d HP in PvE, you can still have Necromancers having “more” health simply by jacking up the max LF.

Of course, that’s not really an appropriate way of dealing with an issue and then we get more disparity between PvP and PvE, so it makes sense that a lot of the problems are simply relics of old game design (not necessarily bad design, just old design).

Yeah, but necros have to tank it by design, while other classes all have access to dodge regeneration, blocks, invul, evading skills.. It’s fair that they get more health than everyone else.

I’m interested in seeing what they do with the next patch that has balance rivaling the April Feature Patch.

I personally believe every profession needs an overhaul, but only to make them diverse and work on their uniqueness. Of course, the amount of architecture that would need to pull off would be ridiculous.

I still feel like they dug themselves into holes with some of their initial designs. And it definitely feels unfair while playing Thief to get downed because you’re still getting hit by a Channel after stealthing.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

And I guess we’re to assume that you’re not Nike_Phoros ?

Either way, until there’s a DPS meter in game… all of this is just “hand waving”.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

The problem with those DPS trials is that the enemies are static in combat. It can certainly be considered as potential DPS in PvP but then again players are still moving and there is no guarantee that level of DPS is going to be reached, even more so when the attacks requires positioning.

Secondly, thief DPS suffers overtime. The person who conducted the DPS trials said so as much. So maybe in those thirty seconds, a thief might be at the top but it will start dropping and keep dropping the longer the fight goes on.

With War and Ele, the continual might stacking capabilities of these professions allow them to maintain a higher DPS even when skills are going on CD. Unless the thief is good enough to kill them in a short amount of time, the fight will end in one of two ways. Either the thief dies or runs away.

But my point is this is a PvP thread and those DPS trials are for PvE. It can be considered propaganda considering it is something the main anti-thief group would fully support and defend it and they are notorious when it comes to misinformation. And likewise, it will remain propaganda so long as you are willing to debate it.

You have Stealth linked to Shadow Arts or Evades through Acrobatics, but even then the latter isn’t quite up to scratch with what you can get from SA in terms of sustain..
In WvW it allows stat combinations such as mixed Valkyrie and Zerker Gear, which enables you do still have decent burst and a respectable health pool.

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

And I guess we’re to assume that you’re not Nike_Phoros ?

Either way, until there’s a DPS meter in game… all of this is just “hand waving”.

No I’m not. As far as i know those tests were made by 2 guilds and not by 1 person. All characters had top tier gear etc.

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

The problem with those DPS trials is that the enemies are static in combat. It can certainly be considered as potential DPS in PvP but then again players are still moving and there is no guarantee that level of DPS is going to be reached, even more so when the attacks requires positioning.

Secondly, thief DPS suffers overtime. The person who conducted the DPS trials said so as much. So maybe in those thirty seconds, a thief might be at the top but it will start dropping and keep dropping the longer the fight goes on.

With War and Ele, the continual might stacking capabilities of these professions allow them to maintain a higher DPS even when skills are going on CD. Unless the thief is good enough to kill them in a short amount of time, the fight will end in one of two ways. Either the thief dies or runs away.

But my point is this is a PvP thread and those DPS trials are for PvE. It can be considered propaganda considering it is something the main anti-thief group would fully support and defend it and they are notorious when it comes to misinformation. And likewise, it will remain propaganda so long as you are willing to debate it.

First of all I thought this is the thief forums and not pvp thread on pvp forums. (The thread has no point anyways, since it was created by someone who has spam the forums with 500 “nerf rangers” threads.)

Anyways on your point, No the dps doesn’t change enough (after the 30 secs) to change the rankings of the classes.

And yes these are PvE testings. Tests for pvp dps do not exist and could not possibly exist. You can’t test your dps when you have to consider terrain advantages/disadvantages, enemy evades, enemy CC, enemy fears, etc…

The guy that made those tests did do a good job. (http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles)

If you read them though, he points out that it’s a “rough idea of individual DPS”. It was done on a boss, and on a 30 second interval.

He does say “Thief single target damage for short fights is simply unmatched” – which we all can agree on, hey we do have the burst… but then he also goes on and says “For longer fights, their damage will suffer because they will be stuck using Cloak and Dagger + Backstab for a higher % of the battle. I didn’t run sword damage numbers for fights against groups, but I would expect them to be much lower.” – Which is basically what everyone is trying to tell you Yellow. The short fights, are negligible, it’s the long fights that show a better meteric of dps. Looking back at WoW days, people would ask to do your rotation on a testing dummy for 5 minutes.

Like if you want to go by burst, yellow, just find someone with the highest overkill achievement, and base it off on that.

DPS measurement is mainly for PvE too.

And still my three issues with his tests are:
1. No proper tool – he apparently has one that he got from somewhere (made it?), no idea how credible it is. There is no in-game tool, nor is there a tool as credible as Recount in GW2.
2. He used a boss to test it on – You really need a static target dummy (think WoW dummies) for these kind of tests. Only ones I know are in sPvP.
3. The duration was 30 seconds – too short for boss fights? Not entirely sure why he picked 30 seconds.

As well structured (hence looks very credible) as his post was, it’s just slightly more credible as anyone else guesses. Soon as at least the first two issues are resolved, it would also be nice to see other tests from other people and draw a general consensus from that.

Till then, I’m going to sip some delicious coffee while I live in my delusional shell and watch you live in yours.

Yeah I planned to post something entirely else (hence Yellow’s quote below), but didn’t want to sound like too much of a kitten to the guy that made those tests. He did after all put in a lot of effort.

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

And I guess we’re to assume that you’re not Nike_Phoros ?

Either way, until there’s a DPS meter in game… all of this is just “hand waving”.

No I’m not. As far as i know those tests were made by 2 guilds and not by 1 person. All characters had top tier gear etc.

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Same goes to you and the 2 guilds that made those tests. W/o a proper in-game meter of some sort, we’re both living in our “delusional” shells.

You know there are ways to test your dps without a dps meter right? …

But even if there was one, I’m sure you people would find some sort of excuse. Not sure why I’m still replying tbh.. cyas!

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

And I guess we’re to assume that you’re not Nike_Phoros ?

Either way, until there’s a DPS meter in game… all of this is just “hand waving”.

No I’m not. As far as i know those tests were made by 2 guilds and not by 1 person. All characters had top tier gear etc.

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Same goes to you and the 2 guilds that made those tests. W/o a proper in-game meter of some sort, we’re both living in our “delusional” shells.

You know there are ways to test your dps without a dps meter right? …

But even if there was one, I’m sure you people would find some sort of excuse. Not sure why I’m still replying tbh.. cyas!

Cuz you cannot resist the temptation of our riches O.o

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

First of all I thought this is the thief forums and not pvp thread on pvp forums. (The thread has no point anyways, since it was created by someone who has spam the forums with 500 “nerf rangers” threads.)

Anyways on your point, No the dps doesn’t change enough (after the 30 secs) to change the rankings of the classes.

And yes these are PvE testings. Tests for pvp dps do not exist and could not possibly exist. You can’t test your dps when you have to consider terrain advantages/disadvantages, enemy evades, enemy CC, enemy fears, etc…

That doesn’t change the fact that your source and list is illegitimate to the topic at hand. Regardless if this is the thief forum, the thread is PvP related. Your information is PvE related. Trying to argue PvP with PvE evidence doesn’t serve your side of the debate any justice because the two do not mix. The nature of both gametypes do not allow this.

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Zero Day.2594:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

Dem milk shakes ;D

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

Any facts to back that up yo?

I just see a list with warrior being somehow 4/8 which is incredibly wrong. They not only have high burst they have heavy sustained damage.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief (hardest hitting attack is Backstab with a 2.4 coefficient, required positioning in a small timeframe to achieve it; the second strongest attack a thief has is Heartseeker vs enemy @ 25% hp)
Ele (max burst rivals guard but otherwise reported to be the most powerful burst capability in the game)
Engineer
Ranger (most powerful long range attack)
Warrior (hardest hitting attack in the game with most attacks around or above a 2.0 coefficient, stacks might like its nothing compared to every other profession)
Guardian (Reported to have the best DPS in the game)
Mesmer
Necro

I really don’t need to explain how false you are. Your list is considered propaganda and you should be ashamed.

The list is made from actual dps tests after the september ballance patch.

No I didn’t make the list, and lol at the “propaganda” comment…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2gol18/dps_ranking/

And I guess we’re to assume that you’re not Nike_Phoros ?

Either way, until there’s a DPS meter in game… all of this is just “hand waving”.

No I’m not. As far as i know those tests were made by 2 guilds and not by 1 person. All characters had top tier gear etc.

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You are free to believe whatever you like, and live within your delusional shell. I’m just saying how things are at the moment on planet earth and not on narnia.

Same goes to you and the 2 guilds that made those tests. W/o a proper in-game meter of some sort, we’re both living in our “delusional” shells.

You know there are ways to test your dps without a dps meter right? …

But even if there was one, I’m sure you people would find some sort of excuse. Not sure why I’m still replying tbh.. cyas!

Cuz you cannot resist the temptation of our riches O.o

Dem milkshakes ;D

At least we don’t have the lowest base stats in the game (we’re in second though, if you consider the importance/degree of armor and health differences, the only two base stat differences that exist between professions). That honor goes to the elementalist.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

*Ranking brought to you by a dubious Redditor

You do realize that you can’t just do “DPS tests”, right? Like, there are so many factors that go into fighting an opponent that DPS testing is going to be extremely unreliable, particularly if it’s done against a golem in the mists or what have you.
Average DPS across all games is a function of the average skill level of your opponents, how easily they can dodge bursts, how much damage they deal back to you, terrain, allied buffs, stats, builds (and the best DPS builds may not always be the most practical ones), cast times/animations, how much evading you do, how often weakness is applied to you, the effect of cripple/chill on you, etc, etc, etc for days.

EDIT: also, given the fact that Warriors still remain an incredibly viable and easy-to-play profession in sPvP, and the amount of damage I’ve seen Warrior/Ele comps do in dungeons, I’m pretty doubtful that Warrior ranks fourth, and I think Mesmer definitely goes above Guardian and maybe even Engineer, depending on your build (again the best DPS builds are not necessarily the most practical).

At least the “dubious” redditor (although he’s not dubious, he is pretty well known…) provided an equation and reasoning behind his stats, everyone I see doubting him have provided nothing but random guesswork and assumptions.

OP seems to not realize that Thief is the most deadly class in pvp.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

First of all I thought this is the thief forums and not pvp thread on pvp forums. (The thread has no point anyways, since it was created by someone who has spam the forums with 500 “nerf rangers” threads.)

Anyways on your point, No the dps doesn’t change enough (after the 30 secs) to change the rankings of the classes.

And yes these are PvE testings. Tests for pvp dps do not exist and could not possibly exist. You can’t test your dps when you have to consider terrain advantages/disadvantages, enemy evades, enemy CC, enemy fears, etc…

That doesn’t change the fact that your source and list is illegitimate to the topic at hand. Regardless if this is the thief forum, the thread is PvP related. Your information is PvE related. Trying to argue PvP with PvE evidence doesn’t serve your side of the debate any justice because the two do not mix. The nature of both gametypes do not allow this.

I didn’t reply for thread’s sake. As I said before, the thread has no point or a real argument. OP is someone who has spammed the forums with "nerf rangers’ threads. Pretty much everyone’s making fun of him back on ranger forums.

I replied, because someone said that the ele has the best dps, or warrior (lol) has the best dps. The ranking are as I listed above. There are no PvP dps tests in any game. Such a thing is not possible. What are you actually arguing about?

Arganthium.5638:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

yolo swaggins.2570:

CobOfCorn.6352:

Because we have the highest personal dps in game.

Warrior actually has the highest DPS in the game. Thieves have the best spike damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Eles actually have the highest DPS and burst in the game, although on two different builds.

Yeah, you are both wrong…

The dps ranking at the very moment are:

thief
Ele
Engineer
Ranger
Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Necro

*Ranking brought to you by a dubious Redditor

You do realize that you can’t just do “DPS tests”, right? Like, there are so many factors that go into fighting an opponent that DPS testing is going to be extremely unreliable, particularly if it’s done against a golem in the mists or what have you.
Average DPS across all games is a function of the average skill level of your opponents, how easily they can dodge bursts, how much damage they deal back to you, terrain, allied buffs, stats, builds (and the best DPS builds may not always be the most practical ones), cast times/animations, how much evading you do, how often weakness is applied to you, the effect of cripple/chill on you, etc, etc, etc for days.

EDIT: also, given the fact that Warriors still remain an incredibly viable and easy-to-play profession in sPvP, and the amount of damage I’ve seen Warrior/Ele comps do in dungeons, I’m pretty doubtful that Warrior ranks fourth, and I think Mesmer definitely goes above Guardian and maybe even Engineer, depending on your build (again the best DPS builds are not necessarily the most practical).

Yes I’m well aware that dps is probably the least important factor for someone to get in a dungeon group. I didn’t said anything about that. I just listed the rankings acording to dps!. Why is it so bloody hard to understand ?!

It’s supposed to be because of Stealth, but the problem is that Stealth works more as an offensive one than it does as a defensive one. The sad reality is that Thief damage mitigation is horrendously bad while their offensive is only slightly above average.

“I didn’t reply for thread’s sake. As I said before, the thread has no point or a real argument. OP is someone who has spammed the forums with “nerf rangers’ threads. Pretty much everyone’s making fun of him back on ranger forums.”

— YellowSheetsDemon

Man I sure got to this guy…the only thing he can say is about me…He lost the debate…now is on a personal crusade!

He’s still beaching about me… I’m loving it!

Keep talking buddy….it makes you look good!
Kinda like on Glenn Beck when they find idiots to answer questions.

Skeletor.9360:

He’s still beaching about me… I’m loving it!

Oh no I’m not! By all means continue making these threads.. lol

Nothing better than see those who can, do, and those who can’t, complain.

Justine.6351:

Smoke screen is good

Not as good as wall of reflection.

Skeletor.9360:

Keep talking buddy….it makes you look good!

I’d suggest taking a look at your own post from someone else’s eyes.

/Awkward

Kagamiku.9731:

At least the “dubious” redditor (although he’s not dubious, he is pretty well known…) provided an equation and reasoning behind his stats, everyone I see doubting him have provided nothing but random guesswork and assumptions.

First of all, I mostly used the term “dubious” to refer to his result as opposed to him himself, though I honestly have never heard of him before anyways.

Secondly, the term “equation” doesn’t mean anything in and of itself. Especially to me, given the extent to which I’ve mathematically analyzed stats in this game. An equation has to have some kind of meaning behind it and justification for its usage, and in my experience DPS equations have tended towards lacking either or both of those things. Now, looking at the way that this Redditor gathered his data (or whoever it was that gathered this data), it’s pretty obvious that he is ignoring a near infinite number of factors that could factor into how much damage you actually do. Furthermore, it’s difficult to say that the builds he is using (which all seem to begin with high points in the first two trees and a few points in one or two others) are even the strongest. Mesmer builds don’t frequently benefit very much from an additional two into dueling, for instance, and thieves have a large amount of damage that can stem off of trees such as Trickery and Acro.

But that aside, the point is that the rankings are completely and utterly useless. The person who collected this data didn’t take into account whether a person is simply dealing high damage or just spiking a lot, and the implications that an opponent’s evasion could have on damage; how conditions affect individual builds; how mobility, positioning, teammates, animations, effects, psychological effects of a build etc etc etc affect DPS. I’m looking at this guy’s methodology and the best thing we can hope is that he used the same boss who was fairly unpredictable multiple times in order to calculate DPS with standard team settings, but even then this says absolutely nothing about sPvP and WvW where all the aforementioned factors come into account where the mere idea of DPS is flawed because the ability to do 3k DPS doesn’t mean much if you only last 3 or 4 seconds.

This isn’t random guesswork, these are all variables that either have not been investigated by the person who did these calculations or have been investigated by other members of the community and a large number of tournaments. I’m certain you didn’t know that Soldier’s Gear is arguably (with a large amount of mathematical evidence behind it- at least, the last time I checked, since stats have shifted around a little since I formulated my first equations to model stats in this game) the best gear in the game, and yet glass cannons and bunkers and the like are extremely commonplace because of in-game and very difficult to measure factors such as the initiative (not the resource, but who’s on the attack vs the defense), positioning, speed, team buffing, and so on- none of which our dubious redditor seems to care much about.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Skeletor.9360:

Keep talking buddy….it makes you look good!

I’d suggest taking a look at your own post from someone else’s eyes.

/Awkward

I’m not stalking anyone…creepy…

Skeletor.9360:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Skeletor.9360:

Keep talking buddy….it makes you look good!

I’d suggest taking a look at your own post from someone else’s eyes.

/Awkward

I’m not stalking anyone…creepy…

You apparently aren’t playing very well as a thief either.

Or know what the word coincidence means.