Guild Wars 2

It just seems like thieves are getting worse and worse, while other classes keep getting better and better. I understand that there are other classes that could use a little buff here and there, but this is about thieves. When it comes to the patch notes it seems like we go one step forward and two steps back. Minor issues and abilities get improved while more essential things get downgraded.

The “kings” of GW2 seem to be (in my opinion) Guardians, Warriors, Mesmers, and Necromancers. I say this because these are the classes that have a good amount of survivability while still being capable of dishing out massive damage if traited properly. These classes can also provide a massive amount of support in PVE or PVP situations. Warriors can “tank” dungeons or Zerk their ways through them. Guardians can “tank” and also provide decent support. Mesmers have practical abilities that can be useful in dungeons. Necros (after the recent patch) are just deadly and can CC amazingly.

In my opinion, thieves are only good for about 3 things:

1. High damage. Thieves are able to hit like trucks if traited properly, but most of the time it comes at the cost of low survivability.

2. Medics (Revivers) : Thieves have the ability to stealth downed allies and easily bring them back up.

3. “Run throughs”: With the help of Shadow Refuse, a group can easily avoid any mob that’s in their way.

While I honestly have no issues with how the thief works in dungeons, my main issue is that there are so few viable builds for PVE and PVP. I’ve tried, on several occasions to create other builds; builds that could be more useful but they would usually fall flat.

Here’s an example: I absolutely love the thought of p/p. It use to be very good in PVP situations, but recently I’ve noticed that it’s beginning to lack a little something something. A p/p build requires fast, high bursts of damage through the use of the Unload ability. THATS IT! It can do absolutely nothing else. There are other abilities in the p/p line that MIGHT help in certain situations but more of them do little to nothing to aid in difficult situations. I find myself using 2 of the abilities (besides the number 1 skill); #3 and #5. Yet these abilities come at a high price of initiative and can’t be use as often, but that’s because they are so useful. The #2 and #4 skills can also take a lot of initiative, but fall flat in terms of usefullness.

This is just one of the many builds I’ve tinkered with. I’ve tried venoms (some what worthless). Stealing (worthless). Traps (worthless). So many useless abilities that are just wasting space.

By no means am I saying that other classes need a debuff, but I am saying that certain things about the thief need to be altered in order for viable builds to be made. Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!

If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!

Most venoms do not even do condition damage. It was even more visible before the last update that added Torment. Thus they are in the trait line that offers condition duration. Condition duration is GOOD for a condition damage build you know.

The other set of venom traits are in Shadow Arts which is a little weird but OK : the first trait is a healing effect and Shadow Arts is our healing line. The second is the infamous Venomous Aura and I must say I wouldn’t be sad at all if that trait was changed somehow.

idontnoso.9850:

This is just one of the many builds I’ve tinkered with. I’ve tried venoms (some what worthless). Stealing (worthless). Traps (worthless). So many useless abilities that are just wasting space.

By no means am I saying that other classes need a debuff, but I am saying that certain things about the thief need to be altered in order for viable builds to be made. Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!

If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!

Stealing useless? In PvE maybe.. But in PvP set up for 3 initiative on steal, might, vigor, fury, swiftness, 2 boons stolen, 1 sec daze, and dmg + heal on steal every 20 seconds by going 30 into that line. Also you’ll have a huge initiative pool and dmg per initiative.

What mostly bothers me is condition damage in that line, I lose 300 stats of something
else for 300 condition damage.

Venoms are fine in their current position. Venoms benefit a lot more from condition duration than they do from condition damage, which makes them usable for both condition builds and direct damage builds.

Traps are pretty okay in 1v1 unless they get dodged, which puts them on their long
cd without contributing to anything. In 1vX they only do good if 2 targets step on them at the same time.. They could certainly need a duration they stay up after triggered, and lower cds, and possibly some buffs like adding a couple of stacks of bleeds and other things.

Thieves are immediately in trouble when a condition based defense (blind) is not working. Boon based classes are much more resilient and can dodge just as much as thieves if they want to. They usually don’t want to since they have better defense elsewhere. Thieves are also effectively running with missing utility lines since traps cannot form the basis of a build. We’re not the only class with this problem and all these redundant utilities need fixing across all classes in order to promote some variation in builds.

we’re being pigeonholed with every patch

idontnoso.9850:

Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!

If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!

Because until the last patch, the Venoms didn’t really do any actual damage, so condition duration is far more useful to them. Even now it’s only really the Torment one, and its garbage anyway.

You’re missing some things:

- Mob blinding: Dropping blind fields on mobs makes a lot of areas a lot easier to get through, especially since you can just group up a bunch of enemies and blind-tank them.
– Stunning/dazing: S/D and S/P thieves are great at stunlocking enemies to control and prevent damage.
– Projectile blocking/reflecting: Sure, we’re not as strong as mesmers on this, but we’re not far off. Smoke screen protects your allies from projectiles while blinding melee enemies. Dagger storm is also a great reflect. It has a long cooldown, but it also has a long duration (longer than Feedback).
– Boon stripping: S/D does this without talents, but any deep trickery build can easily pull this off with Bountiful Theft

If you need a good build that provides this type of utility, consider one of the following:
S/D and/or S/P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAcFmI2esTdyTfGkds9HuKA
or
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAcFmI2esTdyTvHkdsmVrANB

The advantage of these builds is also that you can swap III and X in CS for V and IX, then swap IV for X in Trickery mid-dungeon, then equip P/P to have a great ranged build for fights that aren’t melee friendly.

Lead Attacks is what allows these builds to do strong competitive dps while getting you the utility from the Trickery tree. The sword gets its dps from the auto-attack, so you can keep full ini and when using P/P, just wait for ini to regen between Unload casts to maximize dps.

idontnoso.9850:

It just seems like thieves are getting worse and worse, while other classes keep getting better and better. I understand that there are other classes that could use a little buff here and there, but this is about thieves. When it comes to the patch notes it seems like we go one step forward and two steps back. Minor issues and abilities get improved while more essential things get downgraded.

The “kings” of GW2 seem to be (in my opinion) Guardians, Warriors, Mesmers, and Necromancers. I say this because these are the classes that have a good amount of survivability while still being capable of dishing out massive damage if traited properly. These classes can also provide a massive amount of support in PVE or PVP situations. Warriors can “tank” dungeons or Zerk their ways through them. Guardians can “tank” and also provide decent support. Mesmers have practical abilities that can be useful in dungeons. Necros (after the recent patch) are just deadly and can CC amazingly.

In my opinion, thieves are only good for about 3 things:

1. High damage. Thieves are able to hit like trucks if traited properly, but most of the time it comes at the cost of low survivability.

2. Medics (Revivers) : Thieves have the ability to stealth downed allies and easily bring them back up.

3. “Run throughs”: With the help of Shadow Refuse, a group can easily avoid any mob that’s in their way.

While I honestly have no issues with how the thief works in dungeons, my main issue is that there are so few viable builds for PVE and PVP. I’ve tried, on several occasions to create other builds; builds that could be more useful but they would usually fall flat.

Here’s an example: I absolutely love the thought of p/p. It use to be very good in PVP situations, but recently I’ve noticed that it’s beginning to lack a little something something. A p/p build requires fast, high bursts of damage through the use of the Unload ability. THATS IT! It can do absolutely nothing else. There are other abilities in the p/p line that MIGHT help in certain situations but more of them do little to nothing to aid in difficult situations. I find myself using 2 of the abilities (besides the number 1 skill); #3 and #5. Yet these abilities come at a high price of initiative and can’t be use as often, but that’s because they are so useful. The #2 and #4 skills can also take a lot of initiative, but fall flat in terms of usefullness.

This is just one of the many builds I’ve tinkered with. I’ve tried venoms (some what worthless). Stealing (worthless). Traps (worthless). So many useless abilities that are just wasting space.

By no means am I saying that other classes need a debuff, but I am saying that certain things about the thief need to be altered in order for viable builds to be made. Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!

If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!

I see ANet genuinely trying to buff up the condition builds for Thieves. Sadly they undershot, probably due to fear of “making thieves too powerful.” The same crap reason we Necromancers got for the first 10 months of not having diversity, working skills, viable traits, and working minion AI.

Ghostwolf.9863:

idontnoso.9850:

This is just one of the many builds I’ve tinkered with. I’ve tried venoms (some what worthless). Stealing (worthless). Traps (worthless). So many useless abilities that are just wasting space.

By no means am I saying that other classes need a debuff, but I am saying that certain things about the thief need to be altered in order for viable builds to be made. Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!

If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!

Stealing useless? In PvE maybe.. But in PvP set up for 3 initiative on steal, might, vigor, fury, swiftness, 2 boons stolen, 1 sec daze, and dmg + heal on steal every 20 seconds by going 30 into that line. Also you’ll have a huge initiative pool and dmg per initiative.

What mostly bothers me is condition damage in that line, I lose 300 stats of something
else for 300 condition damage.

Venoms are fine in their current position. Venoms benefit a lot more from condition duration than they do from condition damage, which makes them usable for both condition builds and direct damage builds.

Traps are pretty okay in 1v1 unless they get dodged, which puts them on their long
cd without contributing to anything. In 1vX they only do good if 2 targets step on them at the same time.. They could certainly need a duration they stay up after triggered, and lower cds, and possibly some buffs like adding a couple of stacks of bleeds and other things.

so you get a bunch of offensive stuff….boons…gap closer…. stun….. but all those traits are in condition trait line so unless you wanna cut your direct dmg build in half not worth running. if ur runnign condition dmg build then you wont really pick the first one….maybe the steal 2 boons…but also not the steal daze one either. so yeah its usually best as a gap closer and for stealing 2 boons….which generally last only a few secs considering i never get the longer lasting ones.

I play a condition thief in sPvP and tPvP and have been told that I’d be prefered over any backstab thief on a team in a given day.

We also have viable s/d boon hate builds, s/p stun and teleport builds, and several variations of backstab builds. Recently I’ve even seen venomshare builds pop up for team support, and multiple bunker builds. I don’t know how you can say that thieves are the least versatile at all. We have more build variety than we’ve ever had and more than engineer and ranger combined, so please let me know how we “aren’t versatile”. You just have to play with builds and see what fits your playstyle.

Also Signet of Malice, that is all.

You don’t want versatility.

Look at Engineers and see what happens when you get “versatility”.

It would go like this:

Heart Seeker:
25% chance of jumping to the target
25% chance of execution effect
25% chance of Leap finisher
25% chance of regen

Xae.7204:

You don’t want versatility.

Look at Engineers and see what happens when you get “versatility”.

It would go like this:

Heart Seeker:
25% chance of jumping to the target
25% chance of execution effect
25% chance of Leap finisher
25% chance of regen

That isn’t versitality. I think you mean randomness.

Versatility:
1.
capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.: a versatile writer.
2.
having or capable of many uses: a versatile tool.
3.
Botany . attached at or near the middle so as to swing freely, as an anther.
4.
Zoology . turning either forward or backward: a versatile toe.
5.
variable or changeable, as in feeling, purpose, or policy: versatile moods.

You, I and the rest of the World call it random.

ArenaNet calls it versatile.

Versatility comes akittens cost.
Elementalist is the most versatile class in this game but it is at the same time the best at nothing.

Versatility has never been the sign of the thief profession and it will never be, otherwise thief’s single target damage and mobility wouldn’t be the best in the game. That’s all.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I play a condition thief in sPvP and tPvP and have been told that I’d be prefered over any backstab thief on a team in a given day.

We also have viable s/d boon hate builds, s/p stun and teleport builds, and several variations of backstab builds. Recently I’ve even seen venomshare builds pop up for team support, and multiple bunker builds. I don’t know how you can say that thieves are the least versatile at all. We have more build variety than we’ve ever had and more than engineer and ranger combined, so please let me know how we “aren’t versatile”. You just have to play with builds and see what fits your playstyle.

Also Signet of Malice, that is all.

And this is all true for Wv3 as well.