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(edited by Maderas.9741)
Why is this acceptable?
You can’t stealth spam and be glass cannon.
And I assume you’re a Ele bullkittenting about what your gear is.
This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.
If you were running all PVT gear, he was the super all damage all signets I can do nothing but this burst thief… which means if you just dodge rolled at some point, youd have won.
Also: That attack chain would take 6 seconds minimum, L2P.
This type of damage does not happen unless there’s a HUGE discrepancy in gear. I don’t understand why people just don’t try out thief and see if these big numbers really exist against people who are well-geared.
It’s WvW… not PvE… you have to actually fight with some intelligence… not stand there spamming your keyboard
You can’t stealth spam and be glass cannon.
And I assume you’re a Ele bullkittenting about what your gear is.Black Powder.
Also: That attack chain would take 6 seconds minimum, L2P.
Explain.
This type of damage does not happen unless there’s a HUGE discrepancy in gear. I don’t understand why people just don’t try out thief and see if these big numbers really exist against people who are well-geared.
It’s WvW… not PvE… you have to actually fight with some intelligence… not stand there spamming your keyboard
I guess he must be running full ascended armor, then. Oh, wait.
And it’s fairly difficult to get a chance to do anything with your keyboard when you die instantly, so your second point is moot as well.
Three for three on braindead thief responses. Keep them coming.
Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.
Edit: To further explain what is meant by “you can’t spam stealth and be glass cannon”: It takes investment in non-offensive traitlines to be able to spam stealth. What you most likely got hit by was a 3(4) signet thief. It literally takes dodging the 1 big hit and then auto attacks will kill them as all of their utilities are dedicated to offense and used in the span of about 2 seconds.
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
lol people are still complaining about d/d backstab thieves? it’s so 2012ish
Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.
How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.
Edit: To further explain what is meant by “you can’t spam stealth and be glass cannon”: It takes investment in non-offensive traitlines to be able to spam stealth. What you most likely got hit by was a 3(4) signet thief. It literally takes dodging the 1 big hit and then auto attacks will kill them as all of their utilities are dedicated to offense and used in the span of about 2 seconds.
Let’s not kid anyone here, even when investing points in defensive traitlines a thief in full zerker still hit like a truck. Especially in WvWvW with ascended weapons. Stats are more leveled in SPvP and it isn’t as big of an issue there. It’s also kind of stupid to expect people to somehow magically dodge invisible attacks just at the right moment. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Unless you have a lengthy evade or block your two dodges won’t get you far. In group fights it’s just not going to happen.
It was probably a combination of haste + assasin’s signet + full glass. Very gimmicky and can’t do anything until the cooldowns are up.
Vipassana
Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.
How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.
So now were running around with 3 weapon sets I see. My point was you got hit by 2 cloak and daggers meaning black powder wasn’t even an issue here unless the engagement lasted at least 11 seconds.
Edit: To further explain what is meant by “you can’t spam stealth and be glass cannon”: It takes investment in non-offensive traitlines to be able to spam stealth. What you most likely got hit by was a 3(4) signet thief. It literally takes dodging the 1 big hit and then auto attacks will kill them as all of their utilities are dedicated to offense and used in the span of about 2 seconds.
Let’s not kid anyone here, even when investing points in defensive traitlines a thief in full zerker still hit like a truck. Especially in WvWvW with ascended weapons. Stats are more leveled in SPvP and it isn’t as big of an issue there. It’s also kind of stupid to expect people to somehow magically dodge invisible attacks just at the right moment. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Unless you have a lengthy evade or block your two dodges won’t get you far. In group fights it’s just not going to happen.
Actually thieves don’t hit very kittence you start investing in their defensive traitlines relative to other classes. Go read through the damage coefficients and you’ll see what i mean. What makes the thief damage seem outrageous is a bunch of damage modifiers (in the offensive lines) coming together simultaneously.
Edit: HxAxRxD OxNxCxE apparently trips the profanity filter……
(edited by Maugetarr.6823)
Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.
How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.
I bet "those """""theifs"""" can use the triforce too…
Cloak and Dagger precludes the use of black powder.
How? Most thieves I see are running D/P and D/D, and if they need to escape they use stealth to break combat and swap to Shortbow. Or they can just mash Heartseeker.
So now were running around with 3 weapon sets I see. My point was you got hit by 2 cloak and daggers meaning black powder wasn’t even an issue here unless the engagement lasted at least 11 seconds.
Why would he need Blackpowder after he murdered me in two seconds? DP/shortbow is for disengaging. And yes, three weapon sets. It’s not like carrying around multiple weapon sets and switching while out of combat is unusual. It takes one second to open your inventory and right click on another weapon.
I run full Dire armor (cond/tough/vit) and ascended weapons/trainkets, and I have never, ever received a backstab/cloak and dagger over 4.5K, or wildstrike for over 3K.
Without any points in SA, that puts me at around 2700 armor. With SA, I’m at 3050ish. Do you have any points in your toughness trait line? 2600-2700 armor is still pretty squishy imo, and for a light armor class, aren’t you as an Ele at around 2500 armor before 30 points in your toughness trait line? If you have no points in toughness, then yeah, those numbers are doable.
Damage will still be fairly high even at 2800 armor.
edit: I do agree that a D/P build is generally cheese, and needs to be brought into line.
Edit: To further explain what is meant by “you can’t spam stealth and be glass cannon”: It takes investment in non-offensive traitlines to be able to spam stealth. What you most likely got hit by was a 3(4) signet thief. It literally takes dodging the 1 big hit and then auto attacks will kill them as all of their utilities are dedicated to offense and used in the span of about 2 seconds.
Let’s not kid anyone here, even when investing points in defensive traitlines a thief in full zerker still hit like a truck. Especially in WvWvW with ascended weapons. Stats are more leveled in SPvP and it isn’t as big of an issue there. It’s also kind of stupid to expect people to somehow magically dodge invisible attacks just at the right moment. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Unless you have a lengthy evade or block your two dodges won’t get you far. In group fights it’s just not going to happen.
1. He was a d/d using 3 signets, it was physically impossible for him to come at you stealthed. Unless you weren’t paying attention and he came up behind you but thats a l2p issue.
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.
Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.
First of all, he was running D/D. Second of all, he wasn’t stealthed when he engaged with you, or else cloak and dagger wouldn’t have worked). Third, you didn’t have over 3k toughness.
Ranger//Necro
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
So instead of doing close to 30,000 damage in the span of a few seconds, you’d do 20,000?
First of all, he was running D/D. Second of all, he wasn’t stealthed when he engaged with you, or else cloak and dagger wouldn’t have worked). Third, you didn’t have over 3k toughness.
I never said he wasn’t running D/D, that he was stealthed, or that I have over 3k toughness. I’m not sure what your point is. Reading comprehension is your friend.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8
And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
Thief, Engineer, Mesmer – Seafarer’s Rest (EU)
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
So instead of doing close to 30,000 damage in the span of a few seconds, you’d do 20,000?
Much less actually as it would more than double the time it takes to stealth (not including after cast). Furthermore you most likely lose out on a 10% damage boost from your initiative dropping below 6 to pull it off. Also if it failed you would not have the initiative left over to restealth or use shortbow to run.
2. D/p sacrifices somewhere close to 1/3 our damage (haven’t tested except by paying attention to my Backstab hits) to have the traits for perma-stealth.
So instead of doing close to 30,000 damage in the span of a few seconds, you’d do 20,000?
First of all, he was running D/D. Second of all, he wasn’t stealthed when he engaged with you, or else cloak and dagger wouldn’t have worked). Third, you didn’t have over 3k toughness.
I never said he wasn’t running D/D, that he was stealthed, or that I have over 3k toughness. I’m not sure what your point is. Reading comprehension is your friend.
you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.
You’re being extremely generous with that estimate, there. You’re also assuming all PvP takes place in a vacuum where everyone has full endurance and can afford to focus one particular person out of a group in order to time dodges perfectly to avoid being instagibbed.
So again, I ask – why is it fair that thieves can kitten near instakill somebody running full toughness/vita gear?
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.
I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.
I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.
Stat bloat goes both ways.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.
I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.
Stat bloat goes both ways.
I’m inclined to disagree when I’m taking almost 30,000 damage in ~3-4 seconds while running exotics/ascended.
lol D/D thief. Srs? If you’re running full toughness/vitality and taking that much damage then
A) you’re lying
B) Thief is using pure signet build (that’s 4X signets) to gain might before backstab, in which case he should have died easily if you used your mist form.
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
you must be confusing pve damage with wvw damage
Go add up the numbers in that screenshot with a calculator. I’ll wait.
You do realize that in this situation you had several (minimum 5) seconds to dodge this damage. and that averages out to around 6k/second, not bad but fairly low for a glass d/d.
You’re being extremely generous with that estimate, there. You’re also assuming all PvP takes place in a vacuum where everyone has full endurance and can afford to focus one particular person out of a group in order to time dodges perfectly to avoid being instagibbed.
So again, I ask – why is it fair that thieves can kitten near instakill somebody running full toughness/vita gear?
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
And why on earth should toughness and vitality stacking be acceptable if there wasn’t a counter? As Jesus would have said; as the counterer counters you, you shall counter the counterer by dodging at the right moment, using blocks, stunbreakers etc.
This is probably what the thief that gibbed you were using.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzIWX-AQV8And this thief is far above the average thief you find in WvW.
So what counters glass cannon thieves if toughness/vita builds don’t? I thought condition damage was supposed to counter defenses, not raw burst.
1 dodge (not the backstab but the telegraphed C&D)
You’re being disingenuous and you know it. Dodging the first Cloak and Dagger does not allow you to “kill the thief with autoattacks”.
No, I’m not. But I’ll give you the same advice that we give all the people who come here. Make a thief with the same build. Try to pull this off yourself. It probably was the yski’s build so the link is already there. When tanks hit you back with 3k autos on your 11-14k healthpool you’ll see it can be countered with a dodge and autos. If you want to really have fun, throw in an immobilize and watch the thief squirm.
I’m not going to level a thief to 80 and grind out full exotic with ascended trinkets just to prove what’s already plainly visible in that screenshot. As someone else already said, the build isn’t nearly as hilariously broken in sPvP because of the lack of stat bloat.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
Not only that, you are arguing about burst damage from a class that’s supposed to have the highest burst in the game.
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
I can sacrifice every bit of defense as a ranger, engineer, necromancer and so on and still not be able to pull off half the burst damage a thief can. Thief burst is just as broken as warrior survivability.
I’ve never been able to do this kind of damage on my thief even as a glass cannon, unless the dude had no armor value. sorry. If you have issues with this, spam ANET with complaints, because coming here isn’t going to help you.
OP’d thief, lol
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
You don’t know what generous means, apparently. And no, you don’t sacrifice all of your escape tools to do it… unless you’re going to tell me stealth isn’t an escape tool now.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.
And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
You don’t know what generous means, apparently. And no, you don’t sacrifice all of your escape tools to do it… unless you’re going to tell me stealth isn’t an escape tool now.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.
And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.
i was being generous to the thief, he isn’t very good considering his backstab hit for only 11k, and you seem to forget this is d/d meaning if i want stealth i get 3 seconds before i have to land another cnd, not to mention that said thief is running without any swiftness or 25% signet
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
You don’t know what generous means, apparently. And no, you don’t sacrifice all of your escape tools to do it… unless you’re going to tell me stealth isn’t an escape tool now.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.
And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.
You honestly must be making smth up.
I’m a thief also and 2 days ago 3 full GC thieves tried to gank me at the same time.
I managed to shadowstep away after 1 cnd + 1 bs and kill 2 of em before i got downed by 3rd one.
And I’m @ 19k HP and 2,5k armor.
Full GC thieves are in the edge of extinction couse ppl learned how to counter them.
Its fine if you don’t want to but that leaves your statement invalid. You do not have any experience with the thief so your words cannot be quoted, referenced or used to produce valid arguments.
I normally hate to do this, but… lol. I can’t really formulate a more fitting response.
And no class should ever do enough burst to almost instant kill another class running toughness/vitality gear. No other class can except warriors, and we all know how well balanced they are right now.
No but unfortunately it does, like how guards can fully heal with little effort or how necros can cover you in conditions or mesmers stack confusion and rip boons away.
Each class has a specialty and for thief its the best burst, meaning that at some point it’ll have to make someone explode. On the flip side, it takes setup and positioning in the span of 3 seconds. Afterwards the thief must escape before anyone else confronts it because if he fails he is as soft as a marshmallow and will die as quickly as he killed.
your right it was probably 6 or 7, and if you see a massive chunk of your hp disappear you should probably dodge… and its more than fair, we sacrifice every last bit of defense to put into offense, tha includes all of our escape tools
I can sacrifice every bit of defense as a ranger, engineer, necromancer and so on and still not be able to pull off half the burst damage a thief can. Thief burst is just as broken as warrior survivability.
Any class can bust just as hard as a thief can. I got hit by a 9k maul from a ranger in spvp yesterday (damage modifiers are way smaller in spvp) and I have a static discharge engi in spvp that hits way harder than my thief. The throw mines skill will 1 shot a thief and jumpshot was hitting for 3k and 5k on the separate parts. Necromancer can bust as a power build, but it’s a lot harder and less effective than other classes. Necromancer is incredibly strong at condition damage and doesn’t have to sacrifice too much defense to do so
Thief: Rand x Al Thor | Mesmer: Egwene x Alvere
Dragonbrand |Twitch: twitch.tv/pantsforbirds
Dragonbrand |Twitch: twitch.tv/pantsforbirds
All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react.
And that’s your problem, in a game like this 3 seconds are much, also the average
reaction time is about 0.5 seconds while the best achieve something about 0,18
seconds. So basically you have a big Problem here.
Why is it acceptable to go kitten on another class’s forums?
Thief – [BanD]Valnilus
Necro – [BanD]Nighnus the Black
Yak’s Bend
Necro – [BanD]Nighnus the Black
Yak’s Bend
All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react.
And that’s your problem, in a game like this 3 seconds are much, also the average
reaction time is about 0.5 seconds while the best achieve something about 0,18
seconds. So basically you have a big Problem here.
So the solution to not be kitten on instantly by a thief is to keep full endurance 100% of the time and never let your attention focus anywhere else for longer than half a second lest the thief teleport on top of you and pump out 30,000 damage in 2.5~ seconds (through your toughness/vita gear). Sounds perfectly reasonable.
(edited by Maderas.9741)
D/D is not hard to catch, especially so if the player was a glass cannon. Just dodge a C&D and they won’t have initiative left to deal with you. When a thief approaches, it is usually not in stealth because a thief does not have sufficient stealth access to walk across the map in it.
The first problem you have is situational awareness, even if you are focused on something else, always take care to look around you to see what’s happening. Tunnel vision is a bane to any player and actually taking the time to look around you and absorb what’s going in will help you in the long run. Don’t be a sheep following the flock, look, think and act according to the situation.
The second is your reaction time, no matter what, the best a thief can do in a small amount of time is steal+c&d+backstab. If you die from that, you need more armor in your build. You would otherwise die from a single Mesmer berserker or a barrage of engineer grenades (let alone the Warrior with a hammer bringing down the pain). If you have your situational awareness, your reaction time can be as slow as a second. You’d have predicted it would happen, and can act accordingly.
If you can give specifics on your class and build, we might be able to advice further.
Active: Mesmer, Warrior
Inactive: Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Thief (ex-main)
Leveling: Engineer, Necromancer
Inactive: Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Thief (ex-main)
Leveling: Engineer, Necromancer
Here is a hypothetical. If a thief built himself up for maximum DPS, 11K HP so he could be a one hit wonder, is this not balanced in PvP? In a huge WvW situation he is useless. In a game not balanced for 1 on 1, his entire purpose is to attack someone in the back lines and kill them before he gets one shot.
He doesn’t unbalance the team mechanic. And he himself has to make sure he kills a high value target so that when he dies his death was not useless.
Thief – [BanD]Valnilus
Necro – [BanD]Nighnus the Black
Yak’s Bend
Necro – [BanD]Nighnus the Black
Yak’s Bend
The only real discussion point I think this brings is the damage off CnD. I assume it critted in the screenshot, but that’s a lot of damage for a “utility” ability. It’s more or less the same reasoning they removed the critting potential from mug, although that is a ranged attack that doesn’t cost initiative.
Just doesn’t seem to me like that ability should be able to hit that high considering what it’s actually used for, especially if they’re going to allow chain stealthing to be a thing.
I see you throwing around the word “moot” a lot. I hope you know that “moot” means debatable. So a moot point is a point that is up for debate.
Is it even possible to crit backstab for 11000+ against a 3000+ armor target, with 15 stacks of might, maybe 25 bloodlust and Assassin’s Signet?
It’s been a lifetime since I played 25/30/0/0/15 thief, and I clearly remember having to run against every bunker spec. That’s why I switched to 0/30/30/10/0. And then to Engineer.
just run 3-4 signet burst thief yourself. come back when you still think it’s OP. problem solved.
I played thief for about 800 hours then quit it for Engineer but I can’t remember how much damage I was able to deal. I never thought it was op anyway or else I wouldn’t have quit thief. ;-)
I’m just asking.
He used his steal + CnD + BS + AUTO CHAIN + CnD again…. dude how couldnt you even run and dodge? you could stun him or fear him idk wich class you are but u just needed to stun break or move and dodge after backstab so easy to counter….
And as people already said IF you are full Toughness/Vitality and took a 11k BS its cause the thief runs a pure glass full signet build with no STUN BREAK in it… Dodge the burst stun him and win… GG
I dont like to say it but its really a matter of L2P