Guild Wars 2

Now I am by no means an expert in theory crafting everything thief… But why don’t more thieves run a venom share build in dungeon? I did it in 3 separate dungeons and we were able to keep the boss stunned for quite some time completely ignoring the defiant stacks… it also helped because it made me some what tankier thanks to it being in toughness line… So my question is why do so many thieves run dungeons doing a zerker back stab build… that dies to a sneeze… Instead of something like this… It offers good group support and as long as you wait after activating your venoms the boss will be stunned for at least 5-6 seconds… So what do you guys run in dungeons normally? What reasons do people have for not running a venom share build in dungeons.

Its worthless if you take the following

1 Ranger.
1 Necromancer.
1 Shortbow Thief.

Well it requires quite a bit of group coordination, not only because of the small radius, but also because at least two of the venoms do not stack with multiple applications.
Then there’s the fact that all venoms are utilitarian and not terribly useful in PvE compared to raw damage, since all NPCs are dumb as dirt and just chase someone around swinging once every few seconds.
Then there’s also the fact that, between 5 people, you’ll easily have most conditions up on them at almost all times anyway.

I wish there was a good answer to your question. I wish I could point out various flaws in the VS build for dungeons. But… In all truth, I think that it’s one of the best (and most theoretically correct) builds for a thief to take into a dungeon. It’s completely underrated.

In PvP and WvW, it’s a bit different, but VS is still a decent build.

the short share range makes it difficult for groups split between melee and range to all get it, and the unwillingness of pugs to listen or cluster up makes it generally perform far below optimal. if you run with the same group our your guild a lot then it works amazingly, but it simply requires more coordination then running in in mostly or even full zerker only having to really depend on yourself.

Gungnir Grimm.7123:

the short share range makes it difficult for groups split between melee and range to all get it, and the unwillingness of pugs to listen or cluster up makes it generally perform far below optimal. if you run with the same group our your guild a lot then it works amazingly, but it simply requires more coordination then running in in mostly or even full zerker only having to really depend on yourself.

Even if you can only spread the venoms to 1 or 2 allies, it’s a fantastic build.

I just made sure that I followed the button mashing war/guard closely… Let them do their thing then did mine… it was a guaranteed 5s stun on the boss…. Also Daecello a short bow thief combined with a healing spring ranger can spam heal the entire party to full thanks to cluster bomb. But yes I found that a venom share build is quite useful in dungeons. I never took my thief to a dungeon before because all the other thieves that I had ran with in my other classes just kept dying Over… and over…. and over… But when I tried this I was quite pleased with myself and my party was pretty happy too. In PvP I don’t run venom share but I still take venoms and leeching venoms with shadows rejuv… Its good for trolling 2-3 people on a point while your team handles capping other points.

I run a half-venom share, so to speak. Right now I’m playing a P/D & Shortbow with 30 in Shadow Arts, so whenever I run a dungeon I slot in Venomous Aura and start tapping basilisk. I don’t have the trait that gives an extra use for venoms, but it seems to work fine without. I just make sure that, like jportell references, I save my use of basilisk venom for a second after the boss un-stones. So we often get a solid 4-5 seconds of disruption.

As it is my build usually carries spider venom no matter what, (Poison damage and weakness, plus the most applications of Leeching Venoms in a single slot) and I carry blinding powder + shadow refuge to try and save others. It’s nice: my damage isn’t nearly at the best, but I tend to play in pick-up groups, so every once in a while when things Go Wrong, the added safety of stealth escapes / revives is very helpful.

So yeah, I’ve been playing a venom share / stealth build, and it’s been working out pretty well for me. I know that I don’t really like doing the max damage builds on a thief though, I can’t handle walking the razor’s edge like that.

venoms are pretty bad. The only thing decent about the share build is giving ur teammates an extra what 350 dmg per hit? Poison, vuln, weakness, chill, and immob are are easily achieved by stronger more efficient builds. And sharing bask venom is prolly the best aspect but i rather just have more dmg or utility in refuge, or dagger storm or smoke screen or w/e.

SwickHobo.5096:

venoms are pretty bad. The only thing decent about the share build is giving ur teammates an extra what 350 dmg per hit? Poison, vuln, weakness, chill, and immob are are easily achieved by stronger more efficient builds. And sharing bask venom is prolly the best aspect but i rather just have more dmg or utility in refuge, or dagger storm or smoke screen or w/e.

actually, the life steal will hit for more than that, heal your team, and stack might. except for basilisk venom, the actual venom effect doesn’t mean much in PvE. the main thing is the damage, healing, and might it puts out. if you want to look at it from a PvP or WvW perspective a single VS thief can make a small group a giant ball of CC on top of that. devourer venom or basilisk venom shared across a group before a fight starts puts the group that has it at a great advantage over the group that lacks it. I can vouch for it being very valuable support for small to medium groups in WvW.

jportell.2197:

Now I am by no means an expert in theory crafting everything thief… But why don’t more thieves run a venom share build in dungeon? …

One reason, because it’s useless anywhere else, another because it requires more coordination then is usually available in the kind of pick-up groups you are talking about.

I’ve got a good venom sharing build but I tend to use it less and less now. First of all missile defense is the best dungeon utility so smokescreen and daggerstorm get slots quite often. Shadow refuge also usually gets a slot and that leaves very little space for venoms. Caltrops can be more effective than ice or devourer venoms without any trait support. You can get poison/weakness from the shortbow. Basilisk venom has its place but isn’t universally good. Players don’t wait around for shared venoms in a game where mobile defense is needed. Venoms scale up really badly against a large number of enemies (5+).

The shadow arts line also gives me a stealth build and moving to venoms loses part of that. I can and do change traits around but the interface is poor to be honest. I don’t want to spend my play time doing trait admin on big screens that block vision. Being able to restore a saved trait configuration would make a big difference to how much I use venoms. For my own enjoyment of the game I prefer to just spend a few seconds changing weapons and utilities for a dungeon encounter.

simple, the a-net morons fail to understand this:
the venom share range is TOO SMALL !
300units is crap
that’s why venom builds will NEVER be on par with raw damage
not with random pug parties anyway…

Why is venomsharing about damage? I thought it was more for crowd control purposes. Keeping mobs in place or preventing them from certain actions can sometimes be better than pure damage.

Why don’t more people run a VA spec?

1) For a fully devoted trait spec, the only real choices you have are about which T1 Shadow Arts trait you want and which T1 trait you want outside of Deadly Arts and Shadow Arts.

2) You have to devote 2-3 Utility slots and your Elite slot for Venom powers. That leaves very little room for choices. Many Thief players consider certain Utility powers to be vital, yet there isn’t room for them in a VA spec.

3) People play Thief because they want to be a dps machine. The VA spec is more about AoE support, which inherently goes against how most of the Thief class is structured. VA players had to specifically choose Thief because they wanted to play this spec, which means that they will be rare.

4) There is a bad reputation about the limited AoE range. Even though the AoE circle is now visible when you activate a Venom power (which allows adjustments before you cast the next Venom power), people want the buffs to have at least a 600 range. It bothers them when they are forced to stay close to other people / NPCs / pets to make the spec effective.

5) People play a VA spec for the massive debuffing potential, while also being able to grant AoE damage and healing. In the current dungeon scene, poeple would prefer to run glass cannon Berserker gear builds which intentionally ignore debuffing in favor of raw dps.

My main character is a VA Thief who runs around in Knight gear. I’m tough enough to tank Champion trash adds while other people hit on the mob. While my dps output is respectable, it is nothing to brag about. To date, I’ve never encountered another VA Thief in my light population server of Fergusson’s Crossing. But all things considered, this is still my favorite character amongst the x5 characters.

DanH.5879:

simple, the a-net morons fail to understand this:
the venom share range is TOO SMALL !
300units is crap
that’s why venom builds will NEVER be on par with raw damage
not with random pug parties anyway…

The funny thing is that the elementalists aura share has a larger radius, while IMO granting better effects (at least in pvp) on shorter cooldowns.

Venom share should be a given and the trait should increase the range to 900.

As for it not being used in dungeons, i think it’s simply not strong enough, it requires far to much coordination with how small the range is, and even if you are coordinated it’s not that good in pve. Might aswell just dps like crazy anyway since every dungeon in this game are just that easy. I still like the build though, i think it could have some potential if anet actually tried to fix poisons and pve in general.

Venomshare is a support build and most thieves want to DPS.