Guild Wars 2

For years of playing GW2, i have played and owned many thiefs. I have gone as far as training from 1 – 80 on 4 different modes of thief (Pistol/pistol, D/P, P/D and S/P).

However when playing other classess it sticks out like a thorn in the mud just how overpowered and unbalanced the thief class is.

I am making this thread to hopefully shed light on why the thief class needs to be down graded slightly so that it is balanced and fair to play against.

1) Firstly, the invis re-work:
I have a proposal for fixing invisibility. Allow the thief to use invis and keep the 3 second stealth timer after reveal. However, implement foot tracing.
This means that while the thief is invis we can still see their foot prints on the ground and therefore know where they are and it takes away from the insta gib backstab troll gameplay.

2) Reduce dodge mechanics:
Thiefs are allowed to evade too many times, both through dodging and through use of evade casting.
Make the thiefs only source of dodge the normal dodge roll and withdraw. The insta evade moves in the sword set are cheap mechanics and need to be re-thought and removed.
Think of pistol whip for example – how can someone dodge when standing still. There is no logic.

3) Damage:
Crit damage should not be allowed to exceed 50% , getting as high as 90 – 120% crit increase is insane and leads the class to dealing too much burst.
Having a lower ammount of crit makes the thief more sustainable and balanced as a class.

4) Swap vigour and swiftness:
Thiefs have access to too much vigor and not enough swiftness.
Reduce the ammount of dodging but give up 70 – 85% swiftness uptime, this removes the cheese spam dodge builds and still sticks with the traditional agile class where we can move very fast.

5) Give thiefs the ability to set mines.
Setting mines is like a trap when your opponent walks over it, they explode dealing large ammount of dmg.
This increases the skill cap of the thief by making it have power outside of combat and not needing so many invades and invis.
This also increases the fun level of the class.

Conclusion:
Right now the thief is a troll class that can destroy anythign 1v1, if we balance it out with the above changes we can reach a higher level of gameplay and skill cap on this class.

6) RIfles on thiefs
IDEA: ZACHARY ~~~ THIS IS NOT MY IDEA, BUT I LIKE IT
this will give thiefs a long range option and fits the role of how i see the thief as a brutal thug that beats its enemies.
Great suggestion you can find his link in the thread below.

Support list:~~

Gary_simpson
MironGainez
Jimtherusltr
Jeniferhtox1
Topofthetime
Meepolover124
Jeremyrocks83
Rustlemonkeyman
Kolly
Poplolita – S/d Thief
Emi – Thief that wants mines
Panicbutton
Zachary

~~Pm me if you wish to be added to the support list.

So basically take everything from thief that actually defines the class and make it a watered-down version of engineer with mines and permanent swiftness? Foot trails while stealthed? Mostly it’s just a l2p issue, as kiting around a backstab is not that hard and people speccing for SA are not generally heavy hitters.

Thief is strong in 1v1’s, but in no way does it ‘destroy’ every other class. I’d wager condition warrior, PU mesmer and maybe even 3-kit condi engineers are better duelers than thieves. While a good (Trickery) thief has a chance of winning anyone, thieves only really ‘destroy’ newcomers, as thus being pretty much a noob-check.

If you nerf crit damage further, people will only go more towards the bunkerish power and condition meta. Unless that’s what you’re after?

I remember you making a rant earlier, but it was already shot down and deduced to be a l2p issue any half-competent player. Why still strive this path further? There are many things that could use shaving, but not this complete class revamp for the worse.

And the list of ‘supporters’ you made is also a joke. I could go on and make a list of all the people who support warriors actually having to press a heal skill and use actual condi cleanses and bursts. Or the turret engineers facerolling scrubs with their AI. Or PU mesmers constantly stealthing and gaining the best boons out there. Or, you know, just about anything really?

/nomad but please stop posting the same thing over and over again.

Ritt.3069:

So basically take everything from thief that actually defines the class and make it a watered-down version of engineer with mines and permanent swiftness? Foot trails while stealthed? Mostly it’s just a l2p issue, as kiting around a backstab is not that hard and people speccing for SA are not generally heavy hitters.

Thief is strong in 1v1’s, but in no way does it ‘destroy’ every other class. I’d wager condition warrior, PU mesmer and maybe even 3-kit condi engineers are better duelers than thieves. While a good (Trickery) thief has a chance of winning anyone, thieves only really ‘destroy’ newcomers, as thus being pretty much a noob-check.

If you nerf crit damage further, people will only go more towards the bunkerish power and condition meta. Unless that’s what you’re after?

I remember you making a rant earlier, but it was already shot down and deduced to be a l2p issue any half-competent player. Why still strive this path further? There are many things that could use shaving, but not this complete class revamp for the worse.

And the list of ‘supporters’ you made is also a joke. I could go on and make a list of all the people who support warriors actually having to press a heal skill and use actual condi cleanses and bursts. Or the turret engineers facerolling scrubs with their AI. Or PU mesmers constantly stealthing and gaining the best boons out there. Or, you know, just about anything really?

/nomad but please stop posting the same thing over and over again.

Thank you for your response. I see you have thought it out well and have some valid points.

I will ask you this though, with the current thief the only choice anet has is to continue to nerf it as it is to powerful for buffs. THe thief is leaning on becoming the strongest class but is not there yet.

We first need these re-adjustments that my supporters and I put together to finally have some buffs which can improve the class.

Look at the bigger picture my friend. You are a clever one i can tell by your post

1) What is the meaning of Stealth (3 seconds with 3 seconds of reveal), if anyone can see where the thief actually is moving? The thief in those 3 seconds of invisiblity needs to position himself and actually hit in the back, with all the AoE in the game, no other class needs good timing and position for actually hit a thief.

2) As mentioned before, if the dodge in heavily reduced then remove from the game all these crap AoE that doesn’t even require a target to succesfully hit

3) The overall damage was already nerfed. There is already too much sustain on every class. First re-balance the high sustain builds, then the crit damage.

4) The Thief is already one of the best classes at roaming, we have already many ways to get swiftness or just incresed movement speed. And Vigor was already nerfed and only one build can realy benefit from it. Dodge, Blind and in a minor way Stealth are our ways to survive. Other classes can get Block, Invulnerability, High regeneration with better HP pool and Thoughness. I think it’s a good deal.

5) Mines belong to Engineers. We already have traps, but for the most part they suck. A trap rework is realy needed on the thief but I’m sure this will lead to “thief trap is OP, pls nerf it”

Thanks for your suggestion but no thanks

Kolly.9872:

1) What is the meaning of Stealth (3 seconds with 3 seconds of reveal), if anyone can see where the thief actually is moving? The thief in those 3 seconds of invisiblity needs to position himself and actually hit in the back, with all the AoE in the game, no other class needs good timing and position for actually hit a thief.

2) As mentioned before, if the dodge in heavily reduced then remove from the game all these crap AoE that doesn’t even require a target to succesfully hit

3) The overall damage was already nerfed. There is already too much sustain on every class. First re-balance the high sustain builds, then the crit damage.

4) The Thief is already one of the best classes at roaming, we have already many ways to get swiftness or just incresed movement speed. And Vigor was already nerfed and only one build can realy benefit from it. Dodge, Blind and in a minor way Stealth are our ways to survive. Other classes can get Block, Invulnerability, High regeneration with better HP pool and Thoughness. I think it’s a good deal.

5) Mines belong to Engineers. We already have traps, but for the most part they suck. A trap rework is realy needed on the thief but I’m sure this will lead to “thief trap is OP, pls nerf it”

Thanks for your suggestion but no thanks

Thanks for your reposnse. you have some good ideas and some bad, however each to their own. I can see the links you make as to why some of my ideas are right and some can definitely be changed.

I’ll add you to the support list for now.

Peow peow.2189:

5) Give thiefs the ability to set mines.
Setting mines is like a trap when your opponent walks over it, they explode dealing large ammount of dmg.
This increases the skill cap of the thief by making it have power outside of combat and not needing so many invades and invis.
This also increases the fun level of the class.

What exactly do you mean by power outside of combat? How does setting a trap help you outside of combat? Btw, I don’t think any competent thief will want mines. Engineers already have those, so giving them to thief would kinda be a hit to class diversity. On top of that, thieves already have traps, and they suck in about 99% of situations, so instead of giving thieves mines, how about we rework an entire set of utilities that no thief ever uses. That would be better than your suggestion.

Beeing polite doesn’t mean you are right! And i don’t get the point: kolly is not supporting you!
Pls A-Net stop this sh*t!

Your suggestions essentially ask for turning a thief into an engineer, but far far worse with less utilities and less damage. Did you post this in the wrong forum? o.O

I only made it to your first point before my NOPENOPENOPE alarm went off :/ There is no point to stealth if you can see where a thief is walking. On the off note, try playing world of warcraft or any other game that has a rogue based character. Their stealth has an INFINITE timer — we have three seconds.

I would suggest you and your entire support-list make a thief character, and hop on into pvp. No really, just take 5 minutes out of your time and do it. Study what people will do against you, and then report back here ;] Was it easy? How fast were you melted? Could you survive under so much as implementing one of your suggestions? Because what you did is take the core of what it means to be a thief, and completely gutted the class by giving horrible and completely biased suggestions.

Also I’m absolutely sure that Kolly did not want to be on your “support” list. You should re-read his post.

Nope. My ideas are better.

panicbutton.1053:

Your suggestions essentially ask for turning a thief into an engineer, but far far worse with less utilities and less damage. Did you post this in the wrong forum? o.O

I only made it to your first point before my NOPENOPENOPE alarm went off :/ There is no point to stealth if you can see where a thief is walking. On the off note, try playing world of warcraft or any other game that has a rogue based character. Their stealth has an INFINITE timer — we have three seconds.

I would suggest you and your entire support-list make a thief character, and hop on into pvp. No really, just take 5 minutes out of your time and do it. Study what people will do against you, and then report back here ;] Was it easy? How fast were you melted? Could you survive under so much as implementing one of your suggestions? Because what you did is take the core of what it means to be a thief, and completely gutted the class by giving horrible and completely biased suggestions.

Also I’m absolutely sure that Kolly did not want to be on your “support” list. You should re-read his post.

As I said i have 4 thief characters and yes Kolly did want to be on my support list, his ideas align with mine.

What you should do is stop abusing Overpowered mechanics and admit the truth here, the thief needs a re-balance as it is a cheese class to play right now.

Zacchary.6183:

Nope. My ideas are better.

What ideas? Please share them instead of having simple sentence posts

Claims to have 4 thieves, still spells it “thiefs”. With that, you have lost all credibility.

Peow peow.2189:

Think of pistol whip for example – how can someone dodge when standing still. There is no logic.

Nice try troll Just let this post sink to the bottom… bahaha you almost had me

Peow peow.2189:

I was just playing with my clan in WvW and we had 13 people storming Ags, inside the enemy tower there were only about 4 players (3 thiefs and a warrior). Firstly the warrior smashed us with his hammer and then knocked us back, the thieves then managed to kill off around 7 of our people within the next 5 – 7 seconds.

We ended up having to retreat as they kept spamming invis and blinds, I mean my spells as an elemntalist are even effected by blinds, how the hell does this make sense? How can magic miss even if you are blinded…

We lost a 4 v 13 for gods sake.

yet still people say this classs needs a buff, yeah right is what i say .

4 v 13? Because of 3 thieves? As much as I would like to write a constructive argument, your posted iv quoted really says everything.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha this guy again! I was wondering when his usual thief QQ was going to pop up

K.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Next-Weapon-Set-Rifle/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/New-weapon-OFFHAND-SWORD/first#post4008202

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-Broken-problem-LONG-POST/first#post4099919

“overpowered and unbalanced”

Sorry, whenever I see that I instantly skim past the rest of the post.

Though I did glance at your support list, I love how you add people to it that clearly say they don’t want your suggestions.

The troll didn’t say 4 thiefs he said 4 thief characters, but you can already pick up on said troll’s bull kitten from claiming to have wasted that many character slots. -_-

I welcome Poplolita to the supporters list. A well known S/d thief and necro player.

Any other thiefs that aren’t afraid to stand up and say our class is overpowered please PM me and I will add you as well.

Thanks for the support in this thread guys, if you have good ideas I will add it to the main post with your name.

infynity.5284:

The troll didn’t say 4 thiefs he said 4 thief characters, but you can already pick up on said troll’s bull kitten from claiming to have wasted that many character slots. -_-

if all you can pick on is my spelling after I have done a well thoguht out and structured post, well maybe my spelling isn’t the problem here.

Thanks for your input anyway

I think i know what this calls for.

I concur.

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

waow Oo

1. negate the entire purpose of stealth by adding footfalls. (don’t get the point, it would take God’s most holy decree to land a backstab, you realize that right? you probably do… oh…)

2. nerf weapon evade killing the last viable thief weaponset in pvp…

3. nerf damage by half…

4. nerf the already nerfed vigor resulting in even less survivablity and buff swiftness “because we need it more”

5. give thieves more traps.

okay… so basically, make sure thieves do not have burst, nor sustain, nor survivablity in the name of “raising the skill cap”. in return thieves should be massively buffed with a new trap skill.

I agree with this and hope they implement just so people like… this… would stop posting. and i will still kill you with my mines

(2 months later) nerf mines!!! blehhh!!!!!!?!?!

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I think anyone that has dabbled in the different trait lines and doesn’t exclusively play pve would instantly notice the survivability difference.

Also the OP is wrong in pretty much all areas.

Oh gosh this guy again.

The only thing that should be nerfed is the mod that let this kind of threads.

(inb4 another infraction meanwhile this senseless junky threads proliferation)

Emi.4152:

waow Oo

1. negate the entire purpose of stealth by adding footfalls. (don’t get the point, it would take God’s most holy decree to land a backstab, you realize that right? you probably do… oh…)

2. nerf weapon evade killing the last viable thief weaponset in pvp…

3. nerf damage by half…

4. nerf the already nerfed vigor resulting in even less survivablity and buff swiftness “because we need it more”

5. give thieves more traps.

okay… so basically, make sure thieves do not have burst, nor sustain, nor survivablity in the name of “raising the skill cap”. in return thieves should be massively buffed with a new trap skill.

I agree with this and hope they implement just so people like… this… would stop posting. and i will still kill you with my mines

(2 months later) nerf mines!!! blehhh!!!!!!?!?!

Sadly this is like A-Net has made changes for the thief from the release of this game:
- Listen to non sense complaints
- Release crappy interviews saying “new good changes incoming for the thief” promoting build diversity
- Showing bad Devs gameplay videos doing pve vs dummies with crappy thief’s builds
- Then release patch notes where everything is nerfed to the ground and only some useless skill that no one uses is buffed a bit
- After a couple of hours from the patch release, the complain start again

ps: from someone that is playing from beta

I play thief for many months now. I accepted many nerfs, some i didn’t understand. I’ve read an insanely huge amount of posts like this. And i think it is definitly the wrong time to complain about thieves.

The thief is in a good state at the moment. We have some crap abilities, like all the other classes. Thieves can end up a fight pretty quickly. If they don’t, they have most of the time a hard fight.

Most people also forget about the different skill levels of all thief players. A class shouldn’t be balanced for the top ten thieves, that destroy most casual gamers in seconds. There is a wide variety of players. And i actually don’t think that thief is easy to learn. You need to invest some time to have fun out there.

ps: I also would love to see new weapons ;-)

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I’m guessing Acro Trickery S/D is your response. It’s the best thief build by far. Nothing comes close to its combined mobility, damage, utility, and sustain. A lot of thief builds have a high amount of the first three I mentioned, but adding sustain without adequeating lowering the other three in some way is where the problem lies.

As an FYI, I main a thief in PvP.

This was pre-trait update, but as an engineer, I had a pretty easy time killing thieves.

Shockwave.1230:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I’m guessing Acro Trickery S/D is your response. It’s the best thief build by far. Nothing comes close to its combined mobility, damage, utility, and sustain. A lot of thief builds have a high amount of the first three I mentioned, but adding sustain without adequeating lowering the other three in some way is where the problem lies.

As an FYI, I main a thief in PvP.

One thing evade doesn’t do and stealth does is partial removal of pressure, you can get targeting off,you might have a different position than the attacker(s) believed, you disengage better…
Stealth in some situations is better than evade and worse in others but I would agree either of them is op if thief wasn’t a natural glassy class. Having one or both just makes you normal not tank or maybe most of the users are good because most of the thieves I encounter are glass canons D/P 2/6/0/0/6 with 0 cleansing as long as I see them coming I’m fine but they can’t handle heavy fights.
Both P/D and S/D run 6 in Trickery and 2 in DA only difference SA and Acro. See the pattern? You have to get one of them…

Emi.4152:

waow Oo

1. negate the entire purpose of stealth by adding footfalls. (don’t get the point, it would take God’s most holy decree to land a backstab, you realize that right? you probably do… oh…)

2. nerf weapon evade killing the last viable thief weaponset in pvp…

3. nerf damage by half…

4. nerf the already nerfed vigor resulting in even less survivablity and buff swiftness “because we need it more”

5. give thieves more traps.

okay… so basically, make sure thieves do not have burst, nor sustain, nor survivablity in the name of “raising the skill cap”. in return thieves should be massively buffed with a new trap skill.

I agree with this and hope they implement just so people like… this… would stop posting. and i will still kill you with my mines

(2 months later) nerf mines!!! blehhh!!!!!!?!?!

Great post, I will add you to the supporters list.

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I’m guessing Acro Trickery S/D is your response. It’s the best thief build by far. Nothing comes close to its combined mobility, damage, utility, and sustain. A lot of thief builds have a high amount of the first three I mentioned, but adding sustain without adequeating lowering the other three in some way is where the problem lies.

As an FYI, I main a thief in PvP.

One thing evade doesn’t do and stealth does is partial removal of pressure, you can get targeting off,you might have a different position than the attacker(s) believed, you disengage better…
Stealth in some situations is better than evade and worse in others but I would agree either of them is op if thief wasn’t a natural glassy class. Having one or both just makes you normal not tank or maybe most of the users are good because most of the thieves I encounter are glass canons D/P 2/6/0/0/6 with 0 cleansing as long as I see them coming I’m fine but they can’t handle heavy fights.
Both P/D and S/D run 6 in Trickery and 2 in DA only difference SA and Acro. See the pattern? You have to get one of them…

You think thieves cannot handle heavy fights? Just shadow step away and run. heavy fight handled.

RIght now they have too much killing potential, to the point where 2 thieves or even 1 can insta-gib most classes.

Admit the truth

This guy is a funny troll! xD

You’re helping me through my work hours hahaha:
1. Poster: OP I disagree with you in every context imaginable.
2. OP: Great post! Glad to hear you on my side, I’ll add you as a supporter.

xD oh lordy.

L2P

Volrath.1473:

L2P

I have taken the time to make constructive arguments and thought out posts and all you have to say is 3 letters. Come on mate – atleast come with a constructive argument and or reasons so say what you have said

Peow peow.2189:

Emi.4152:

waow Oo

1. negate the entire purpose of stealth by adding footfalls. (don’t get the point, it would take God’s most holy decree to land a backstab, you realize that right? you probably do… oh…)

2. nerf weapon evade killing the last viable thief weaponset in pvp…

3. nerf damage by half…

4. nerf the already nerfed vigor resulting in even less survivablity and buff swiftness “because we need it more”

5. give thieves more traps.

okay… so basically, make sure thieves do not have burst, nor sustain, nor survivablity in the name of “raising the skill cap”. in return thieves should be massively buffed with a new trap skill.

I agree with this and hope they implement just so people like… this… would stop posting. and i will still kill you with my mines

(2 months later) nerf mines!!! blehhh!!!!!!?!?!

Great post, I will add you to the supporters list.

I don’t think you understand how to read, or how to sarcasm. The guy’s clearly disagreeing with you.

After a long time of thinking, wrighting and erasing here is my well thought argument:
L2p

Edit: It is also well structured!

Peow peow.2189:

infynity.5284:

The troll didn’t say 4 thiefs he said 4 thief characters, but you can already pick up on said troll’s bull kitten from claiming to have wasted that many character slots. -_-

if all you can pick on is my spelling after I have done a well thoguht out and structured post, well maybe my spelling isn’t the problem here.

Thanks for your input anyway

you haven’t been reading your own thread mate. if you look carefully at the first sentence i was defending you on your flawless grammar… its your post that’s not very thought out. cheers anyway Troll.

Peow peow.2189:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I’m guessing Acro Trickery S/D is your response. It’s the best thief build by far. Nothing comes close to its combined mobility, damage, utility, and sustain. A lot of thief builds have a high amount of the first three I mentioned, but adding sustain without adequeating lowering the other three in some way is where the problem lies.

As an FYI, I main a thief in PvP.

One thing evade doesn’t do and stealth does is partial removal of pressure, you can get targeting off,you might have a different position than the attacker(s) believed, you disengage better…
Stealth in some situations is better than evade and worse in others but I would agree either of them is op if thief wasn’t a natural glassy class. Having one or both just makes you normal not tank or maybe most of the users are good because most of the thieves I encounter are glass canons D/P 2/6/0/0/6 with 0 cleansing as long as I see them coming I’m fine but they can’t handle heavy fights.
Both P/D and S/D run 6 in Trickery and 2 in DA only difference SA and Acro. See the pattern? You have to get one of them…

You think thieves cannot handle heavy fights? Just shadow step away and run. heavy fight handled.

RIght now they have too much killing potential, to the point where 2 thieves or even 1 can insta-gib most classes.

Admit the truth

Exactly thieves don’t stay in fight too much pressure I escape then come back. Yes a glass canon thief can still kill 1 by 1 in a unorganized group even if he’s alone but’s that based on skill. Any class can go glass canon but only ele and thief are mostly reliable with skill not just random luck. If they have higher cap for that potential let them have it player earn it.
Stealth just makes you panic because the thief could be standing next to you and you are unaware but then again there is no other mechanism advantaging a glass canon thief to attack he will die too quick once seen. Don’t get outplayed.
We can’t break the class purpose just because of fear. Just counter play zerker gear is squishy after all.

Sagat.3285:

Peow peow.2189:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

Sagat.3285:

Shockwave.1230:

If the thief was OP it’d be the only thing people ran in at least one game mode.

S/D Acro Trickery and P/D DeadlyArts ShadowArts potentially should be looked at for nerfs, but the profession doesn’t need a rework.

As it stands though, the profession is not OP.

Let me guess because they are the only “tank” thief builds eh? Stealth and evade eh? Can’t handle a glassy class holding a little longer eh?

Thief user logic: When I go into a toughness(Shadow Arts) or vitality(Acrobatics) trait line I deserve some kind of survivability or else those points I spent are useless.
Thief opponent logic: Why does he survive if he’s a glassy class,why can’t i hit him,why does he do so much damage,why is he so annoying?
GW2 logic: Huh mmm so thief did not become what we expected or did they forget the definition of thief or maybe they only want glass canon thieves. Should we remind them one more time or is it pointless?

I’m guessing Acro Trickery S/D is your response. It’s the best thief build by far. Nothing comes close to its combined mobility, damage, utility, and sustain. A lot of thief builds have a high amount of the first three I mentioned, but adding sustain without adequeating lowering the other three in some way is where the problem lies.

As an FYI, I main a thief in PvP.

One thing evade doesn’t do and stealth does is partial removal of pressure, you can get targeting off,you might have a different position than the attacker(s) believed, you disengage better…
Stealth in some situations is better than evade and worse in others but I would agree either of them is op if thief wasn’t a natural glassy class. Having one or both just makes you normal not tank or maybe most of the users are good because most of the thieves I encounter are glass canons D/P 2/6/0/0/6 with 0 cleansing as long as I see them coming I’m fine but they can’t handle heavy fights.
Both P/D and S/D run 6 in Trickery and 2 in DA only difference SA and Acro. See the pattern? You have to get one of them…

You think thieves cannot handle heavy fights? Just shadow step away and run. heavy fight handled.

RIght now they have too much killing potential, to the point where 2 thieves or even 1 can insta-gib most classes.

Admit the truth

Exactly thieves don’t stay in fight too much pressure I escape then come back. Yes a glass canon thief can still kill 1 by 1 in a unorganized group even if he’s alone but’s that based on skill. Any class can go glass canon but only ele and thief are mostly reliable with skill not just random luck. If they have higher cap for that potential let them have it player earn it.
Stealth just makes you panic because the thief could be standing next to you and you are unaware but then again there is no other mechanism advantaging a glass canon thief to attack he will die too quick once seen. Don’t get outplayed.
We can’t break the class purpose just because of fear. Just counter play zerker gear is squishy after all.

Zerker gear is not as squishy as you think, you seem to have some logic behind your post. So ill ask you this, If thiefs lose their stealth and in return gain something better. Will they become the OP class of the game? or will they be balanced? why or why not

Peow peow.2189:

Emi.4152:

waow Oo

1. negate the entire purpose of stealth by adding footfalls. (don’t get the point, it would take God’s most holy decree to land a backstab, you realize that right? you probably do… oh…)

2. nerf weapon evade killing the last viable thief weaponset in pvp…

3. nerf damage by half…

4. nerf the already nerfed vigor resulting in even less survivablity and buff swiftness “because we need it more”

5. give thieves more traps.

okay… so basically, make sure thieves do not have burst, nor sustain, nor survivablity in the name of “raising the skill cap”. in return thieves should be massively buffed with a new trap skill.

I agree with this and hope they implement just so people like… this… would stop posting. and i will still kill you with my mines

(2 months later) nerf mines!!! blehhh!!!!!!?!?!

Great post, I will add you to the supporters list.

hehehe! nicely played :P

here’s where you are wrong too…

1) Firstly, the invis re-work:

The back-stab ‘troll’ part of the Thief as you describe is what makes this class… a Thief. As it does in all classic rpg’s before mmo was even considered. If you had played one for even a decent ammount of time against a player character you would know how hard it is to land in 3 seconds. All the while avoiding mass aoe from other classes and hard hitters. Stealth is not a damage shield unless you run the trait, which wastes one needed slot and reduces your dmg output. I don’t even know how effective the trait is anyway because out of choice I haven’t run a shadow arts build in a long time.

2) Reduce dodge mechanics:

Wrong, the thief is a prime target because they are actually quite squishy when built for attacking and they don’t have the dmg+mobility of other classes like cloth wearers. They can run, but they can’t cause pain at the same time, so they have to rely on dodging as their only source of dmg mitigation. Cripple is a thief’s bane.

This being said I almost agreed with the first part of 2, but then realized S/D was given a buff after thieves complained they didn’t have enough mobility. This is also the only weapon set they can pull off your claimed evade casting. Unless you count short-bow Moonwalking or Failblossom. Both of which leave you lacking in precious initiative. Withdraw and Roll for Initiative basically remove you from the fight too so there goes that idea. They are also not the only class with endurance regain so don’t go saying they need to be nerfed when enough other classes get this as well.

Finally, you again fail to realize the casting times of most of the thief’s high dmg abilities, pistol whip as you see it leaves your target not being able to move for the entire duration. For a start you have to land that hit through timing then you have to hope the opponent doesn’t break out of it.

God I’m getting tired of breaking down the pathetic flaws in your nerf requests… but I shall persevere.

3) Damage:
Crit damage should not be allowed to exceed 50%

Wow you actually made a decent thought out comment here. Problem is, it’s not crit dmg that’s the problem, its conditions dealing insane amounts of damage over time. What you suggest should apply to every class, not just thief That way fights would play out longer, be more intensive and enjoyable and relative dmg would remain the same… wow we’re back to the start. Problem solved at the expense of fights of attrition.

4) Swap vigour and swiftness:

And whenever we dodge then we would regain half that endurance bar + vigor, all traits being as they are currently. Now who’s op dodge king?

5) Give thiefs the ability to set mines. (wow i found the mistake the poster before me was talking about.)

Conclusion:
Right now the thief is a troll class that can destroy anythign 1v1, if we balance it out with the above changes we can reach a higher level of gameplay and skill cap on this class.

Traps right now… = Fail… Mines… wtf dude, from a thief? This isn’t call of duty.

Sure, we destroy any class 1v1. If they have no brain and/or sweet fa skill. I met an engineer last night who wasn’t turrenting and he was elite, met an elementalist who was pro last week. Ranger today who actually matched me with h2h, smartest ranger I’ve ever fought and lost to. Not going to comment on plate until they fix a few things.

6) RIfles on thiefs

Half agree with you on this because I like the idea of rifle thieves too… only its not very stealth-like, nor would it be very fair in my opinion. Stealth + Kill Shot = ROFLSAUCE

Solution: Shortbow Trait, +5% dmg and 300 range. Engineer gets one, why cant we?

Peace

infynity.5284:

6) RIfles on thiefs

Half agree with you on this because I like the idea of rifle thieves too… only its not very stealth-like, nor would it be very fair in my opinion. Stealth + Kill Shot = ROFLSAUCE

Solution: Shortbow Trait, +5% dmg and 300 range. Engineer gets one, why cant we?

Peace

Why do people assume that it is going to be like kill shot or a long ranged backstab? It isn’t. Do the math.

Zacchary.6183:

infynity.5284:

6) RIfles on thiefs

Half agree with you on this because I like the idea of rifle thieves too… only its not very stealth-like, nor would it be very fair in my opinion. Stealth + Kill Shot = ROFLSAUCE

Solution: Shortbow Trait, +5% dmg and 300 range. Engineer gets one, why cant we?

Peace

Why do people assume that it is going to be like kill shot or a long ranged backstab? It isn’t. Do the math.

Well i only put it on my support list because I thought it would have kill shot wchich means thief could use the long distance backstab. Now that you have said this I have to ask you a question, would it be OP if thiefs got more damage? Would we even need to be the best class if illusions were not controllable?

Can you clarify this so I can choose to keep it on my support list or not

Yup. I’m gana continue to watch this thread plummet.

Thief doesn’t need a rework, it needs number tweaks, something we see once every 6 months. At least they hot fixed strength runes