Guild Wars 2

Profession balance is streaming now.

Zero Day.2594:

Profession balance is streaming now.

Pistol dmg buff 20%~ pew pew

And a buncha stuff I dont remember. :o was it good?

Doggie.3184:

Pistol dmg buff 20%~ pew pew

And a buncha stuff I dont remember. :o was it good?

No.

Edit: I guess the complete answer is that we don’t really know. They had about 2 minutes remaining on stream when they got to thief, and they still had warrior to go through. The notes will be up on Tuesday so we will see what’s happening then.

You’re all over reacting ..at least we get Dash and 2s extra swiftness on dodge!

Fade.5904:

You’re all over reacting ..at least we get Dash and 2s extra swiftness on dodge!

But where are my monkey king stances and flips when I’m running away to taunt enemy with? I’m so unsatisfied without them.

Doggie.3184:

Fade.5904:

You’re all over reacting ..at least we get Dash and 2s extra swiftness on dodge!

But where are my monkey king stances and flips when I’m running away to taunt enemy with? I’m so unsatisfied without them.

Don’t worry, you might still hear a cry about how we’re so OP at reseting fights and getting away when we deserve to be downed/killed…

Fade.5904:

You’re all over reacting ..at least we get Dash and 2s extra swiftness on dodge!

So little impactful changes were used as preview it’s enraging. Unless Unload gets evade frames damage is not the way to go stop it with just damage “he who knows his name”. Don’t mess this up CiS needs to go back to master tier.

Cynz.9437:

It is actually very simple: “our” dev went for balance, other devs went for powercreep/cool stuff + they don’t communicate apprently. So here we go, got short end of the balance stick so to say.

Just that I feel Thief has got everything nerfed as a base and then given it back in special trait lines/elites. So thief is basically 60% as strong as before June patch.

Twirling Baton+flip flopping like cheerleaders = Op man. dint you watch Buffy?

it really is insane that the 3 GM dodge traits aren’t rolled into the DrD mechanic as F toggles…or at very least combine them into 1 GM trait.

but just rolling them into the base class mechanic isn’t unreasonable seeing what other specs get.

with the above and if the animations get fixed, it could at least be a fun spec to play.

Zero Day.2594:

Doggie.3184:

Fade.5904:

You’re all over reacting ..at least we get Dash and 2s extra swiftness on dodge!

But where are my monkey king stances and flips when I’m running away to taunt enemy with? I’m so unsatisfied without them.

Don’t worry, you might still hear a cry about how we’re so OP at reseting fights and getting away when we deserve to be downed/killed…

Running away while crying is my specialty but I wanna look sexy while I do it.

Doggie.3184:

Running away while crying is my specialty but I wanna look sexy while I do it.

The Gemshop has got some outfits?!

Arctarius.2649:

So you are telling me, Dare Devils 1 EXTRA DODGE BAR…is our class mechanic to the druids avatar form, (which has 5 skills left side like death shroud AND 5 flip skill utilities on the right) Like Are you kidding me right now??
I am honestly kittened off, EVERY other class got an incredible addition to their class FOR FREE, our mechanic has been pushed into the GM traits as a choice as repeated countless times. The Dare Devil is in drastic need of a buff at this point. God help us.

To be fair, if we compare Ranger and possibly necro class mechanic change to ANY profession, they pale in comparison. We have for example chrono, while it is VERY strong, the new class mechanic essentially allows mesmer to use their baseline skills- twice. Kinda boring compared to for example the Avatar State on ranger. Same goes for Scrapper, whose profession mechanics is essentially a ranged interact key. Keep in mind, i am disregarding how strong they are here. In terms of quantity, ranger necro and ele got the long end of the stick while mesmer thief and engi got the short end.

Saying “EVERY other class got X” will not help. Dragon hunter doesn’t get their profession mechanic for free, for example. They have to trade off their current virtues. Same with necro. Anet could probably replace steal with a toggle for the new dodges and make new grandmaster traits, but i would expect many many thieves would not be very happy about losing steal.

TL;DR
In quantity, thief, mesmer and engineer got the short end of the stick (thief got +1 dodge, mesmer got to use all skills twice, engi got a ranged interact key).

At the same time, necro and guardian has to trade-off their current profession mechanic to gain access to the new one. Only ranger, ele, and warrior gets new tools to use that don’t replace any of the current abilities.

In terms of the quantity of new abilities, stop acting like thief is in another tier of bad.

Quadox.7834:

Dragon hunter doesn’t get their profession mechanic for free, for example.

Upgrading their virtues from the old ones does not make it a “cost”; they still get the upgrade just for equipping the Dragonhunter specialization (and it’s part of the specialization’s design, so if they don’t want those upgraded virtues they probably shouldn’t be running Dragonhunter).

The comparison would make a lot more sense if Dragonhunter had to pick which of the three virtues to upgrade with their Grandmaster trait choice, which they do not.

Quadox.7834:

Anet could probably replace steal with a toggle for the new dodges and make new grandmaster traits, but i would expect many many thieves would not be very happy about losing steal.

This is an extremely poor analogy, as there’s absolutely no reason that being able to choose your dodge from a drop-down list would have replace Steal. Now, if equipping Daredevil gave you a different version of Steal, it would be more like the Reaper and Dragonhunter comparisons you are trying to make.

chibbi.3706:

I, for one think daredevil looks pretty strong and mostly hella fun, and if I get HoT I will definitely reroll a thief just to play it.

Sorry, I was axcited when I read the DD specialisation, but when I tried it, I almost cried !

If you are so disappointed, request for a refund, I am thinking about it now.
Furthermore, another non thief class with a stealth…
Too much reveal, too much stealth form others classes, where is my thief !?

Quadox.7834:

Arctarius.2649:

So you are telling me, Dare Devils 1 EXTRA DODGE BAR…is our class mechanic to the druids avatar form, (which has 5 skills left side like death shroud AND 5 flip skill utilities on the right) Like Are you kidding me right now??
I am honestly kittened off, EVERY other class got an incredible addition to their class FOR FREE, our mechanic has been pushed into the GM traits as a choice as repeated countless times. The Dare Devil is in drastic need of a buff at this point. God help us.

To be fair, if we compare Ranger and possibly necro class mechanic change to ANY profession, they pale in comparison. We have for example chrono, while it is VERY strong, the new class mechanic essentially allows mesmer to use their baseline skills- twice. Kinda boring compared to for example the Avatar State on ranger. Same goes for Scrapper, whose profession mechanics is essentially a ranged interact key. Keep in mind, i am disregarding how strong they are here. In terms of quantity, ranger necro and ele got the long end of the stick while mesmer thief and engi got the short end.

Saying “EVERY other class got X” will not help. Dragon hunter doesn’t get their profession mechanic for free, for example. They have to trade off their current virtues. Same with necro. Anet could probably replace steal with a toggle for the new dodges and make new grandmaster traits, but i would expect many many thieves would not be very happy about losing steal.

TL;DR
In quantity, thief, mesmer and engineer got the short end of the stick (thief got +1 dodge, mesmer got to use all skills twice, engi got a ranged interact key).

At the same time, necro and guardian has to trade-off their current profession mechanic to gain access to the new one. Only ranger, ele, and warrior gets new tools to use that don’t replace any of the current abilities.

In terms of the quantity of new abilities, stop acting like thief is in another tier of bad.

On the paper Daredevil doesn’t look that bad (just lackluster, since we got zero new mechanism).

Execution-wise it’s the wasteland. And don’t get me started on this. Other classes can complain about the new stuff being useless to their personal builds, they are still visually polished (more or less but it’s there). We have yet to see correct basic animations in our spec.

So thief is getting +1 dodge, thief will always be a +1 class.

Quadox.7834:

…. We have for example chrono, while it is VERY strong, the new class mechanic essentially allows mesmer to use their baseline skills- twice. Kinda boring compared to for example the Avatar State on ranger.

That’s not really a fair representation of the mesmer mechanic. Think of it this way. Mesemer mechanic lets the mesmer use some very powerful elites twice.

nopoet.2960:

Quadox.7834:

…. We have for example chrono, while it is VERY strong, the new class mechanic essentially allows mesmer to use their baseline skills- twice. Kinda boring compared to for example the Avatar State on ranger.

That’s not really a fair representation of the mesmer mechanic. Think of it this way. Mesemer mechanic lets the mesmer use some very powerful elites twice.

kitten, If I could run Thieves Guild twice in a row of Basi Venom with venom share, you would probably be on a 10 sec lock down. Just saying.

assassin.7895:

DeceiverX.8361:

chibbi.3706:

I, for one think daredevil looks pretty strong and mostly hella fun, and if I get HoT I will definitely reroll a thief just to play it.

Having played it in BWE, it’s the worst-performing spec line for the thief. It’s slow, clunky, unattractive, and simply badly-designed and badly-implemented. I see zero reason to stray from any of the current lines because DD is so non-functional aside from condi D/D 3spam which benefits a bit more from this than some other lines.

Engi & revenant reveal spam might force you to stay away from SA

Based on the performance from the BWE, I think you’re still better off in SA against targets that reveal you. Staying alive for 6s without stealth shouldn’t be an issue. Really. If people can’t stay alive for 6s out of stealth, they’re bad thieves, or got ganked with all mobility on cooldown, both of which are signs of being a bad thief. As it stands the class can barely skirmish if at all depending on the skill level of the opponent, and worst-case scenario is you need to relocate when back-capping. My bigger concern with revealing effects is the incapability to get stealth attacks, although this doesn’t affect D/P much as Shadow Shot spamming is arguably the fastest burst the build has at its disposal per unit of initiative spent. DA/Trickery are by far staples and are not being moved out unless an attempt at a bunker build is made involving DD/Acro, but it’ll still lose to most things. The precast/aftercast delay on everything including the dodges was ridiculous to the point I felt like I should be swinging a hammer like the recycled hammer animations we have.

If the issues regarding absurdly clunky abilities/dodge rolls are resolved, then maybe it could replace SA in a reveal-heavy matchup. Otherwise the init regen from Rejuv is better for mobility purposes out of combat.

I main a Warrior and could care less for the zerker, after they dumbed down that magnificent rifle finisher. And I don’t think any Ele cares about Tempest. Poor things heard about DH too.

You are not alone.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I main a Warrior and could care less for the zerker, after they dumbed down that magnificent rifle finisher. And I don’t think any Ele cares about Tempest. Poor things heard about DH too.

You are not alone.

To be honest, it does seem, when you look at the entire package of elite specs, that half of the classes had more creative juices poured into them than the other half. I’m not sure what that says about the developers as a whole, but it can’t really be good for the future of the game.

1 dodge will rule them all !!!

serious I dont know what that guy was thinking lol.

Make a list of the classes that make the other classes the angriest when on equal footing.

1. Thief
2. Warrior

Ironic that our elite specs are underwhelming.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Make a list of the classes that make the other classes the angriest when on equal footing.

1. Thief
2. Warrior

Ironic that our elite specs are underwhelming.

Only reason why other classes complain about thieves is because of stealth. Welp that is being slowly nerfed away. There is nothing about being on “equal footing” with a role that is being developed into a +1 class.

I would argue a proper played thief in wvw is still a nightmare to deal with. I have run my thief through plenty of Arah runs, too many useful utilites and spike damage for them not to be welcome in pve.

so pvp remains the GLARING issue

Jana.6831:

Doggie.3184:

Running away while crying is my specialty but I wanna look sexy while I do it.

The Gemshop has got some outfits?!

Not sexy ones, no summer swimsuits.
That sadness on top of no sexy monkey king animations = double sadness.
Instead of them being like “Wow I love how sexy that Thief looks as it runs away” they’re like “kitten I was entitled to that kill!” Makes everyone so heartless.

chibbi.3706:

DeceiverX.8361:

chibbi.3706:

I, for one think daredevil looks pretty strong and mostly hella fun, and if I get HoT I will definitely reroll a thief just to play it.

Having played it in BWE, it’s the worst-performing spec line for the thief. It’s slow, clunky, unattractive, and simply badly-designed and badly-implemented. I see zero reason to stray from any of the current lines because DD is so non-functional aside from condi D/D 3spam which benefits a bit more from this than some other lines.

Who said anything about DD condi ?

I think of it as a new build that works like the old S/D thief. I can be wrong of course, but I won’t just straight up believe someone who only tried it for 2 days and played a condi DD build.

It doesn’t have the increased endurance regen of the old S/D. It literally has 1 more dodge per fight. Might as well go DA/CS/Tr and kill things 20% faster so you don’t need that dodge.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I main a Warrior and could care less for the zerker, after they dumbed down that magnificent rifle finisher. And I don’t think any Ele cares about Tempest. Poor things heard about DH too.

You are not alone.

Berserker is fine, even if you don’t care for it. Robert Gee has actively engaged with the Warrior community and taken most of their concerns to heart.

The other two, you have a point (even if their base professions can afford the hit, unlike Thief). Would it surprise you if I told you that the same person that designed those two specs also designed DD? I think I’m starting to notice a pattern…

My engi elite got a drone thing with a 30 sec cd that can only be used to rez 1 person or stomp 1 person I guess that’s pretty cool.

Frightlight.3796:

My engi elite got a drone thing with a 30 sec cd that can only be used to rez 1 person or stomp 1 person I guess that’s pretty cool.

Haha…I guess when you put it that way, we’re both in the same boat. The difference here is that at least the rest of your E-spec is looking pretty powerful. Ours isn’t.

We got more then “one extra dodge bar” we got a rework of dodge itself wherein dodges can now be used to do direct damage or clean conditions inherently. It still needs a bit of work and I suggest allowing to change IN COMBAT between the dodges with dodges on a f3 -f5 toggle warranted but I do not look at it as “just one more dodge”.

I find quite ironical the fact that A-Net gave us a staff when most thieves won’t touch PvP with a 10’ pole…

Frightlight.3796:

My engi elite got a drone thing with a 30 sec cd that can only be used to rez 1 person or stomp 1 person I guess that’s pretty cool.

Don’t forget that the drone will get cleaved down in about 2 auto attacks. Because counterplay.

Edit: But seriously, don’t compare yourselves to rangers here. At its worst ever, thief got MVP at the WTS, while ranger was the only profession not played. Thief has had a place in high-end dungeons and PvP since the game started, while rangers have never been in the meta. Rangers needed something like Druid far more desperately than any other profession in the game. Hopefully it will give them a place in dungeons, raids and tourneys…because they’ve been waiting for a long time.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Edit: But seriously, don’t compare yourselves to rangers here. At its worst ever, thief got MVP at the WTS, while ranger was the only profession not played. Thief has had a place in high-end dungeons and PvP since the game started, while rangers have never been in the meta. Rangers needed something like Druid far more desperately than any other profession in the game. Hopefully it will give them a place in dungeons, raids and tourneys…because they’ve been waiting for a long time.

Rangers are really strong right now. I have no idea of pvp, maybe they just don’t fit into the scheme wheras thieves can always stealh (mesmers do it better). Maybe pvp just isn’t build for rangers, but that doesn’t mean they need buff after buff cause I have to face them in wvw as well, and believe me; they’re doing good in wvw.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Edit: But seriously, don’t compare yourselves to rangers here. At its worst ever, thief got MVP at the WTS, while ranger was the only profession not played. Thief has had a place in high-end dungeons and PvP since the game started, while rangers have never been in the meta. Rangers needed something like Druid far more desperately than any other profession in the game. Hopefully it will give them a place in dungeons, raids and tourneys…because they’ve been waiting for a long time.

Rangers are really strong right now. I have no idea of pvp, maybe they just don’t fit into the scheme wheras thieves can always stealh (mesmers do it better). Maybe pvp just isn’t build for rangers, but that doesn’t mean they need buff after buff cause I have to face them in wvw as well, and believe me; they’re doing good in wvw.

WvW is 1/3 of the game, and even there staff elementalists and well necromancers are more desirable in zergs. I’m really not sure about roaming. However, on top of that rangers aren’t welcome and have never been welcome in meta dungeon groups. They are pretty strong in open-world PvE, but that just happens to be the least important aspect of the game; everyone does fine there. They were the only class not present at the last World Tournament Series. The. Only. One. That right there tells you their PvP viability: pros would rather stack two warriors (who are, themselves, considered weak right now) than take a ranger.

Rangers are the only other profession that has legitimate grounds to feel as neglected as Thief does. As noted, their representation in SPvP isn’t so great, particularly at the pre-made tournament team level.

Re: the dungeons bit though, who cares? Dungeons are so easy that you can essentially do them with any profession or build. I’d highly recommend running with guild/friends/chill groups instead of subjecting yourself to the tyranny of ‘meta’ blowhards.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

WvW is 1/3 of the game, and even there staff elementalists and well necromancers are more desirable in zergs. I’m really not sure about roaming. However, on top of that rangers aren’t welcome and have never been welcome in meta dungeon groups. They are pretty strong in open-world PvE, but that just happens to be the least important aspect of the game; everyone does fine there. They were the only class not present at the last World Tournament Series. The. Only. One. That right there tells you their PvP viability: pros would rather stack two warriors (who are, themselves, considered weak right now) than take a ranger.

I guess what has been and what is buffed for rangers is their personal survival and not group play, I face them while roaming.
So make a thread in the ranger forum and demand more group play utilities? fine by me.
And I already spoke about pvp, maybe pvp and rangers just don’t work together. You can also demand that anet redesigns pvp so it would fit ranged classes more or tell every ranger who’s into pvp to only play melee – I don’t care, just from my personal roaming wvw experience: rangers don’t need a buff.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

WvW is 1/3 of the game, and even there staff elementalists and well necromancers are more desirable in zergs. I’m really not sure about roaming. However, on top of that rangers aren’t welcome and have never been welcome in meta dungeon groups. They are pretty strong in open-world PvE, but that just happens to be the least important aspect of the game; everyone does fine there. They were the only class not present at the last World Tournament Series. The. Only. One. That right there tells you their PvP viability: pros would rather stack two warriors (who are, themselves, considered weak right now) than take a ranger.

I guess what has been and what is buffed for rangers is their personal survival and not group play, I face them while roaming.
So make a thread in the ranger forum and demand more group play utilities? fine by me.
And I already spoke about pvp, maybe pvp and rangers just don’t work together. You can also demand that anet redesigns pvp so it would fit ranged classes more or tell every ranger who’s into pvp to only play melee – I don’t care, just from my personal roaming wvw experience: rangers don’t need a buff.

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

They used to need a buff, but I think they’re in a decent place right now…at least as far as 1v1s are concerned. They can’t bring as much group support to the table as another profession, even if that other prof is as good at 1v1s as the ranger is.

Honestly, the major issue with thief right now is condition cleanse. With a little bit of that they’d be fine.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

They used to need a buff, but I think they’re in a decent place right now…at least as far as 1v1s are concerned. They can’t bring as much group support to the table as another profession, even if that other prof is as good at 1v1s as the ranger is.

Honestly, the major issue with thief right now is condition cleanse. With a little bit of that they’d be fine.

Then why do you say rangers have got it worse than thieves?
And no, nearly all classes can hit harder than thief, just that thief has got no defense.
You can only dodge that often.

For those of you who did not know Engineer and Thief got nothin out of their so called Elite Specialization. The feeling is mutual on both our forums. Support it all of it with upvotes:

After druid reveal I feel truly slighted. As excited as I am to play Druid, Scrapper is just a much garbage in comparison.

Dragon hunters Virtues got changed.
Berserkers got Berserk mode.
Herald got OP boon buffing Facet of Nature.
Tempests got overload attunements.
Reaper got Reaper shroud.
Chronomancers got Continuum Shift AND Alacrity.
Druid got Celestial Avatar.

In every case above, that’s alot of skills, a lot of impact, a lot of game changing.

Thieves got a remix of the acrobatics trait line…
Engineer got a 30 second stomp rez bot…

Garbage.

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Jana.6831:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Oh, you’re still trying to beat them using d/d I take it? Bad idea. Again, you lose out on gap closing, blinds and interrupts. I usually don’t have too much difficulty when facing them using d/p, although they have gotten tougher recently.

So what? rangers have gotten tougher or rangers are so poor they need a buff?

They used to need a buff, but I think they’re in a decent place right now…at least as far as 1v1s are concerned. They can’t bring as much group support to the table as another profession, even if that other prof is as good at 1v1s as the ranger is.

Honestly, the major issue with thief right now is condition cleanse. With a little bit of that they’d be fine.

Then why do you say rangers have got it worse than thieves?
And no, nearly all classes can hit harder than thief, just that thief has got no defense.
You can only dodge that often.

Thieves have a permanent place in PvP tournaments, and always have. Rangers have no place in PvP tournaments, and never did. The same holds true in dungeons: dungeon groups don’t kick people just for playing thief, but they do kick people just for playing ranger. How many times do I need to repeat this?

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Thieves have a permanent place in PvP tournaments, and always have. Rangers have no place in PvP tournaments, and never did. The same holds true in dungeons: dungeon groups don’t kick people just for playing thief, but they do kick people just for playing ranger. How many times do I need to repeat this?

So? That’s because of the classes’ mechanics, you can buff all you want, still doesn’t change the mechanics how many times do I need to repeat this?

Jana.6831:

So? That’s because of the classes’ mechanics, you can buff all you want, still doesn’t change the mechanics how many times do I need to repeat this?

Not Thief mechanics, Shortbow #5. Just Shortbow #5.

Remove that and Thieves disappear from every competitive team overnight.

Voramoz.6790:

For those of you who did not know Engineer and Thief got nothin out of their so called Elite Specialization. The feeling is mutual on both our forums. Support it all of it with upvotes:

Engineers got plenty. You could make the argument that the “elite mechanic” itself (the function gyro) is a bit underwhelming on its, but the total package is quite good.

Not something you can say about Daredevil.

Amante.8109:

Jana.6831:

So? That’s because of the classes’ mechanics, you can buff all you want, still doesn’t change the mechanics how many times do I need to repeat this?

Not Thief mechanics, Shortbow #5. Just Shortbow #5.

Remove that and Thieves disappear from every competitive team overnight.

Which does not change the fact that thieves are competitive, while rangers are not. Nor does it have anything to do with high-end dungeon running, where thieves are welcome while rangers are not.

Engineers got plenty. You could make the argument that the “elite mechanic” itself (the function gyro) is a bit underwhelming on its, but the total package is quite good.

Not something you can say about Daredevil.

I would make the argument that thieves got better utility skills than engineers did with elite specializations. Gyros are a fusion of spirit weapons and turrets…which are both completely useless. It’s even worse than that, though, because the engineer’s weapon swap mechanic takes up utility slots, making those even more cramped for engineers than for other professions.

Thief utilities don’t have a corresponding tool belt skill (5s protection 4sec water field on heal….6 sec reveal on 20s cool down) per utility …just saying

Shalien.9018:

Mops.5316:

Shalien.9018:

Well at least we know our entire elite spec won’t be adequate for survival either.

Well with the new dash we can pretty easy run away.

“Upcoming content will have stuff that you can’t just dodge to survive.”

I for one hope that they meant you can’t just dodge to survive with the baseline dodges, but that classes with more dodges/invulnerability though traits/vigor/weapon skills/healing skills/utilities will be able to mitigate more.