Guild Wars 2

So, I have a mostly pure zerker build for my Daredevil. I fought a guildie recently in our arena and he’s a PvP veteran. He told me that I was the most dangerous thief he had ever fought… and I don’t PvP.

I tend to PvE a lot, and I notice in the HoT areas how fast I die. My armor and weapons are zerker, and I have some zerker+valk trinkets along with soldiers to give me some extra survival.

Regardless, I’m wondering if swapping my ascended gear (not my trinkets) from zerker to Marauder’s would make me more viable in PvE and still stay viable in PvP.

You lose out on a bit of crit damage so I don’t think it’s worth it for PvE. For WvW, it’ll be more desirable since the nerf to guard stacks.

Before swapping equipment, exactly what’s your problem in staying alive in the HoT maps?

I’m currently running on full ascended zerker gear and I tend to die only when I try to solo or duo (with baddies) HP champions. DD/Tr/CS build with staff ofc.

Bladedancers, Bristlebacks and Pocket Raptors are the biggest offenders in my experience.

Pocket Raptors can me mitigated, but 2+ bladedancers or a Veteran Bristleback are death sentences.

I’ve done some math on the subject. Without getting into specific builds, swapping over from full zerker to full marauder will decrease your effective power by 9.2%, but increase your effective HP by 49.7%.

While it is possible to roam around in full zerker gear as a thief, it isn’t too much of a drop to swap out some bits Marauder.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’ve done some math on the subject. Without getting into specific builds, swapping over from full zerker to full marauder will decrease your effective power by 9.2%, but increase your effective HP by 49.7%.

While it is possible to roam around in full zerker gear as a thief, it isn’t too much of a drop to swap out some bits Marauder.

The numbers, as far as PvP mode goes, are -9.516% avg dmg and +48.1% HP.

In PvE/WvW, considering zerker trinkets and marauder weapon/armor (all ascended), we get -4.68% avg dmg and +27.91% HP.

If you use Valkyrie trinkets with Marauder wpn/armor, it’s -7.91% avg dmg and +37.18% HP.

If I needed more HP, I’d rather go with Marauder than Valkyrie. The reason is that Marauder is a 4 way split stat set so in exchange it gets more stat totals than Zerk. And there’s no wasted stats like Celestial might give.

I went full asc marauder. Now i Can survive 1 Hit…sometimes.
Honestly, its very good. Ans it shows what thief really needs (mid tier hp pool).

IMO, Marauder is not worth it even in PvP. Even though ArenaNet is trying to kill ‘zerker, it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic. You sacrifice a lot by going Marauder from ‘zerker…and for a Thief it is a bad trade-off. You’re losing 150 power and 20% crit damage traded for 6k more HP and 8% more crit chance. It’s a bad trade. Crit change means little if you lose power and ferocity. And of course, what is damage if you are dead. However, losing damage output means that you cannot take out your target fast enough and the additional 6k HP will do nothing if your target gains momentum. And during a team fight when survivability really means a little because your team have your back, lacking damage output will mean your team’s defeat. I fully understand why Marauder is picked only because of the 1v1 mentality, however going into a 1v1 fight with a Marauder means you’ve already lost and you need the extra 6k HP, not to last a fight, but so that you won’t die while running away.

Totally a bad trade. Couldnt be worse.
Thats why every thief rund zerker in pvp. Maybe i should start playing p/p with lotus Dodge…i mean…thats OBVIOUSLY the Best Dodge trait for this set.

6k is more than half of thief base hp. I Can trade that 5%dps for more sustained dmg.

lol only troll thieves run zerker in sPVP. 11k hp is only viable if your name is Ele. Even then, it’s a stretch since Ele needs a little boost with Celes still.

Well maybe if you want to be a unique snowflake since 99% of thieves running Marauders I guess you can say to yourself you are the 1%.

It’s totally understandable if someone would choose to take Marauder because if they’re having a hard time dodging attacks and being one-shotted in PvE, then 6k more HP will definitely be a big benefit to them. However if being one-shotted is an issue, having more HP will not help since what they would need is Toughness, not Vitality.

In PvP, 6k more HP is definitely helpful when running away from a fight — it can guarantee your escape.

Yeah…this vincent can Dodge everything.
I wish i will be pro like he is….someday.

(i just think he trolls this thread, because he should know that toughness is only viable if you have enough hp -i think after 18k? – and only lowers direct dmg not conditions. But vitality, while not as good vs sustained dmg but still helpfull , gives you the chance to survive a couple conditions AND physical dmg bursts)

I’m going to agree with Vincent here….

I would only zerker as staff because you have to take more hits with no Seatlh on the weapon… D/p zerker for sure…

Galandil.9641:

Before swapping equipment, exactly what’s your problem in staying alive in the HoT maps?

I’m currently running on full ascended zerker gear and I tend to die only when I try to solo or duo (with baddies) HP champions. DD/Tr/CS build with staff ofc.

Bladedancers primarily. :/ And mostly, I get downed, not killed in HoT maps (I should have been more specific). :P I’m decent at dodging and killing, but as far as numbers go, it looks like I won’t lose much damage potential by going from zerker to Marauder’s.

And thanks to everyone for their feedback, I read all your posts as well.

I have made a decision, and I’m making the transition to it. My chestpiece and leggings are now marauder’s instead of zerker. It’ll take a long time before I get all pieces converted over.

My only question is now: should I convert my weapons from zerker, too? Or just leave them as is?

Domey.9804:

Yeah…this vincent can Dodge everything.
I wish i will be pro like he is….someday.

Exactly. Since you are having a hard time dodging attacks and being one-shotted, Marauder is perfect for you. There is no shame on it.

I’m simply comparing what you are going to lose if you swap Berserker for Marauder. In most cases, the 6k more HP is not a benefit seeing that you lose power and ferocity.

As I said, if being one-shotted is the issue, then you’re better off with more Toughness.

- and only lowers direct dmg not conditions.

You said your issue is being one-shotted not conditions for which I replied that if that is the issue then get more Toughness.

But vitality, while not as good vs sustained dmg but still helpfull , gives you the chance to survive a couple conditions AND physical dmg bursts)

I don’t disagree with your reasoning if that is what works for you. If you’re willing to sacrifice damage over survivability then that’s your choice. As a Thief, it is better to get rid of the threat as soon as possible than trying to outlast them. Yes you survived, but the threat still exists.

I’m using marauder gear as my get go, for the simple reason of events often times scaling up. It’s a quality of life thing mostly, since our ranged weapons are killing me.
With that being said i also have some toughness gear in my backpack for the same reasons and berserker stuff for times of pure damage.
It all comes down to circumstances and how to approach them.
There are times when damage is more important and you have to step up your game, and times where that little bit of extra survivability is less stressful, sometimes even beneficial. Analize the situation you’re in and gear/play accordingly. Nothing & no-one forces you to stick to one single set of gear.

what if instead of going through the trouble of swapping bezerker armor to marauder, (assuming you’re in ascended), could use stay with zerker armor and weapons and run runes of dolyak? and if you’re still having trouble maybe soldier or knight amulets and what not.

Not saying I’m mister pro-skill Daredevil over here, but I run pure Berserker with some Assassins and Scholar Runes with Critical Strikes / Deadly Arts / Daredevil to compound all my damage options.

THEN I take Invigorating Strikes to heal based on a % of my critical damage. One good Vault at 25 might stacks in a cluster of foes is almost a full heal.

I find that I sustain VERY well with this build, and I don’t even use the Signet heal, instead relying on the fantastic burst heal option of the Daredevil Heal.

If the situation is too hairy to melee, I just use Dash dodge out and Unload with dual pistols. Its incredibly fun, active, and rewarding when I’m pulling off some of the highest possible sustained damage in the game due to well timed dodges and vamping my health back up from my foes after a miss play. Rarely has anything “one shot” me yet.

@Sir Vincent: Could you please show me where is said that i have “problems with being one shot”? I said I can survive one hit, zerker mostly can’t.

Well I give up. Op was asking if its worth, my opinion is yes (and mathematically it is worth it). Yours is the opposite, no problem with it.

Personally I’m running a Valk + Zerk mix. I have full zerk trinkets, and weapons, with zerk coat and pants. Gloves, Shoulders, Boots and Helm are Valk.
Around 14k hp, just enough to prevent one-shots from almost anything in Maguuma, and with comparable damage with full zerk.

Since Valkyrie trades precision for Vitality, I pretty much have the same crit damage as I would have when using full zerk armor, just with a slightly lower crit chance.
With the use of foods, oils, perma fury, Signet of Agility, I still get around 90% crit chance. With a spotter ranger or banner of discipline, I can easily hit 100% crit, just like full zerk.

Personally I don’t really need the extra 3k hp from Marauders, and this saves me a lot of money, not needing to swap my whole build into another stat.

Or you can always take rune of the scrapper if you need more survivability. I’m sticking to runes of the Pack because I use this build to WvW as well.

A mix of a few stat pieces is better I think then just going full out on 1 stat. As soon as marauder armor and weapon insignias or inscriptions come out I will make this gear
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lClOhdPBGmCkmiFYCzLNcGaDzdwS4KULBEA2NA-T1DEABRcIAWUFCCeABJqmiBXABmUO4uOApUi1kSi200AoSwc2fAgDEwDHRA/VNIAACwNvZ28mZzbezb+oH9oH9oHtdezbe0je0SBYuQL-w

Guys, I appreciate all your feedback, but I’ve already decided.

I just need an answer to my second question now: should I swap my weapons over? :P

Fat Disgrace.4275:

A mix of a few stat pieces is better I think then just going full out on 1 stat. As soon as marauder armor and weapon insignias or inscriptions come out I will make this gear
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lClOhdPBGmCkmiFYCzLNcGaDzdwS4KULBEA2NA-T1DEABRcIAWUFCCeABJqmiBXABmUO4uOApUi1kSi200AoSwc2fAgDEwDHRA/VNIAACwNvZ28mZzbezb+oH9oH9oHtdezbe0je0SBYuQL-w

Whut? I have crafted 2 exotic pieces of marauders (armor) and I’m on my way crafting 2 more ascended armor pieces in marauders right now. You get the recipe from the master tanner.

Oh nice I am fully ascended already so i’ll just change the stats via mystic forge

Yep. Nice build you posted. I changed my pack runes out for Runes of the scrapper, for more toughness and the 7% damage reduction is nice. Still at 2500 power, with 2400 armor, 50% crit chance and 16k health (17k with Furious Maintenance Oil) .

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, Marauder is not worth it even in PvP.

Marauder is the PvP Meta, not berserker.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You sacrifice a lot by going Marauder from ‘zerker…and for a Thief it is a bad trade-off. You’re losing 150 power and 20% crit damage traded for 6k more HP and 8% more crit chance. It’s a bad trade. […]

losing 150 power and 20% crit damage while gaining 600 vitality and 120 precision isn’t bad at all. Of course the lost stats make me sad but in the end, but marauder simply gives you more stats (that also are valuable) than berserker. berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.
also, due to our heals (channeled vigor / withdraw) having good hps, having a higher health pool isn’t wasted.

Tarkan.5609:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, Marauder is not worth it even in PvP.

Marauder is the PvP Meta, not berserker.

Not necessarily worth it. Marauder being a meta only means that there is no other worthy choice. IMO, Marauder is not for Thief simply because the distribution of stat points doesn’t benefit Thief at all.

What the Thief needs from an ammy is at least 1200 power, 560 Precision, and 900 Ferocity — if there are stat points left, they can go to either vitality or toughness.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

So an underpowered damage isn’t bad? What? That’s the very definition of bad.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You sacrifice a lot by going Marauder from ‘zerker…and for a Thief it is a bad trade-off. You’re losing 150 power and 20% crit damage traded for 6k more HP and 8% more crit chance. It’s a bad trade. […]

losing 150 power and 20% crit damage while gaining 600 vitality and 120 precision isn’t bad at all. Of course the lost stats make me sad but in the end, but marauder simply gives you more stats (that also are valuable) than berserker. berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.

Being one-shotted nor downed due to AoE never happened prior to Marauder. So I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

also, due to our heals (channeled vigor / withdraw) having good hps, having a higher health pool isn’t wasted.

I don’t disagree with that and I see the value of Marauder. However, the stat points distribution is not tailored for Thief.

With the Rune of Daredevil, the extra Precision is wasted and the crits are weaker due to Marauder’s lower Power and Ferocity. Using Berserker + Rune of Daredevil, the damage potential of this combination is way greater than using Marauder.

As I’ve already mentioned, the appeal of Marauder is driven by the desire that Thief should dominate in 1v1. If you are a Thief using a Staff, fighting 1v1 is a wasted opportunity because a Staff Thief is more productive staying with a group fighting more opponents. The Thief can deal massive AoE damage that can put a lot of pressure to the opposition which is only possible if the Thief uses Berserker. A couple of well-timed Vaults will put the opposition into defensive.

Having higher health pool simply doesn’t get the job done — higher damage does.

EazyPanda.6419:

Personally I’m running a Valk + Zerk mix. I have full zerk trinkets, and weapons, with zerk coat and pants. Gloves, Shoulders, Boots and Helm are Valk.

This. 50% crit is the traget as that is more or less the top of the bell curve (closer to 45%). Points in precision past this do not yield a significant DPS increase compared to what a player loses in armor/health. As vitality scales against condi damage, it is really difficult to avoid Valkyrie if maximizing damage with survival.

Domey.9804:

@Sir Vincent: Could you please show me where is said that i have “problems with being one shot”? I said I can survive one hit, zerker mostly can’t.

Not exactly what you said. You said;

I went full asc marauder. Now i Can survive 1 Hit…sometimes.

Implying that you used to have ‘zerker and being one shotted is a problem that’s why you went with Marauder.

What other things are you implying here?

Well I give up. Op was asking if its worth, my opinion is yes (and mathematically it is worth it).

Maybe, but it’s not worth it practically. Thief is not a tank nor a healer. Thief is a source of damage. Purposely gimping your damage to gain 6k of HP is never worth it.

Yours is the opposite, no problem with it.

I never discounted the usefulness of Marauder. It’s an ammy with wasted stats when used by a Thief. It’s that simple.

I think that’s a pile of horse kitten, vinc may be going full marauders in pve, then yes. I don’t remember the last time I seen a zerker thief in pvp, but the ones I did were p/p and no real threat. Steal and weakening charge took them down to 60% health, I still don’t see the point in zerker amulet on a thief or any low health class.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Not necessarily worth it. Marauder being a meta only means that there is no other worthy choice. IMO, Marauder is not for Thief simply because the distribution of stat points doesn’t benefit Thief at all.

What the Thief needs from an ammy is at least 1200 power, 560 Precision, and 900 Ferocity — if there are stat points left, they can go to either vitality or toughness.

Then I simply don’t agree with you.
I always try to hit 15k health, 12k just isn’t enough imo as any AoE will get your health down a lot.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

So an underpowered damage isn’t bad? What? That’s the very definition of bad.

Read again. I said even if Thief is underpowered, it’s damage isn’t.

[…] berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.

Being one-shotted nor downed due to AoE never happened prior to Marauder. So I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

oh sorry, I didn’t know I talked to a Thief God here who can always dodge stealth bursts and avoid team fight AoE’s due to his superior overview of the battefield.

The Thief can deal massive AoE damage that can put a lot of pressure to the opposition which is only possible if the Thief uses Berserker. A couple of well-timed Vaults will put the opposition into defensive.

In order to do that you first need to survive.

Okay, I’m getting a little impatient here.

Can someone tell me if I should swap my weapons to Marauder, too? Or should I leave them at Zerker?

Please! I’ve asked this twice now!

Another possible solution to the problem, that I’ve been having good results with recently, is to switch to Exuberance runes and swap a few Zerk pieces for Valk ones.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Exuberance

It’s at the expense of a little Precision, but every piece that you swap from Zerk to Valk actually gives you more Power than the Zerk piece did.

The runes ain’t cheap but cheaper than crafting a whole new Ascended set – at least for me. As always, YMMV and it’s just a possible suggestion to my fellow beleaguered Thief folk.

AegisRunestone.8672:

Okay, I’m getting a little impatient here.

Can someone tell me if I should swap my weapons to Marauder, too? Or should I leave them at Zerker?

Please! I’ve asked this twice now!

Why should you need to? If you want to aim for your own personal min/max stats then yes. I did change my staff as to reach my 15k health mark.

AegisRunestone.8672:

Okay, I’m getting a little impatient here.

Can someone tell me if I should swap my weapons to Marauder, too? Or should I leave them at Zerker?

Please! I’ve asked this twice now!

It’s the sort of thing that only you can decide for yourself, according to your playstyle. For me, the trick is to squeeze only the absolute minimum of V/T into the build, since we mostly live or die by our DPS.

So I would personally keep the weapons as Zerker, given their big stats.

Tarkan.5609:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Not necessarily worth it. Marauder being a meta only means that there is no other worthy choice. IMO, Marauder is not for Thief simply because the distribution of stat points doesn’t benefit Thief at all.

What the Thief needs from an ammy is at least 1200 power, 560 Precision, and 900 Ferocity — if there are stat points left, they can go to either vitality or toughness.

Then I simply don’t agree with you.
I always try to hit 15k health, 12k just isn’t enough imo as any AoE will get your health down a lot.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

[zerker] it is still the best, only because the Thief’s damage is so pathetic.

Ehm I’m sorry but no matter how underpowered thief is, the damage of it isn’t bad. It’s (along with mobility and initiative = “CD freedom” kind of) probably the main reason for a lot of thief mains.

So an underpowered damage isn’t bad? What? That’s the very definition of bad.

Read again. I said even if Thief is underpowered, it’s damage isn’t.

Yeah, we’ll just have to disagree in here. Thief’s base damage is one of the reasons why it is underpowered and purposefully sacrificing Power and Ferocity for some Vitality – which is wasted in a team fight is a really bad trade.

[…] berserker’s will be one-shotted way easier or just get downed due to AoE.

Being one-shotted nor downed due to AoE never happened prior to Marauder. So I don’t know what you’re talking about here.

oh sorry, I didn’t know I talked to a Thief God here who can always dodge stealth bursts and avoid team fight AoE’s due to his superior overview of the battefield.

If you got burst from stealth, no amount of HP will save you.What have saved me from burst is something that is often overlooked – AoE blind.

The Thief can deal massive AoE damage that can put a lot of pressure to the opposition which is only possible if the Thief uses Berserker. A couple of well-timed Vaults will put the opposition into defensive.

In order to do that you first need to survive.

Um, no. Survival is not about absorbing damage rather avoiding them. Meaning don’t get lured, don’t overextend, and don’t get impatient.

If a lot of HP is what you’re aiming for, might as well forget about ’zerker and Marauder and go full condition damage where you can have 20k HP.

If you keep them zerk you end up with like 14k hp. Still not enough in my opinion ans you dont needs its precision because you already habe 50% chance. Either make weapons valk or marauder. I took marauder cuz More overall stats.
Although i now learned from dodge-god that marauder has wasted stats (i just need to find out which of them are wasted) i still think marauder is the Best thing what happened to thief with the expansion.

Domey.9804:

If you keep them zerk you end up with like 14k hp. Still not enough in my opinion ans you dont needs its precision because you already habe 50% chance.

For someone who have such an opinion is suggesting to take Marauder which has 1050 Prec vs Berserker which has 900 Prec.

And you still don’t know which stats you’re wasting?

i go with damage (zerk)
if i learned something about thief gameplay, it is positioning.

learning to accept that the limitation of full damage builds.
engage to attack, position to enemy counters, disengage more often. that’s why basic thief have high damage output simply because we lost damage during disengaging and repositioning.

my 2 cents.

@ AegisRunestone I’m working towards getting my armor to be marauder. I was going to leave my weapons zerk and get to the 15k health I usually aim for with trinkets. I like just swapping the trinkets around because with some changes to just the rings and amulets you can significantly change your stats. Marauder armor and zerk everything else already puts you at 14k ish health, no reason to go change everything else and lose sigils. Rings and amulets are cheap.

In sPvP you NEED not wanted Marauder’s. There is a reason why 99% thieves running it (the 1% are trolls and newbs). Ignore anyone saying going for Zerker’s in spvp cuz that’s just dumb.

In Pve Zerk everything mobs ain’t gonna kill you anyways.

Prior to Marauder, every PvP players using Berserker are dumb…lolz.

AsurasRCute.4136:

Another possible solution to the problem, that I’ve been having good results with recently, is to switch to Exuberance runes and swap a few Zerk pieces for Valk ones.

Another option I like is full Marauder with Runes of the Wurm and Furious Maintenance Oil if not in pvp. 20k health, 54% crit, and 220% crit damage. There are a lot of work arounds to getting more survivability.

i would say go soldier with zerker accesories, thats what i been using on my DD and its just awesome, the extra vit and toughness really help with survavility giving 18k hp and 2.8k armor, and still have a decent 44% pasive crit chance thanks to prescicion signet and accuracy runes, not counting the crit modifiers from critical strikes, and nice dmg (7k unloads, 3k weakening strikes, 7k vaults) thanks to high power and dmg modifiers from traits

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Prior to Marauder, every PvP players using Berserker are dumb…lolz.

Well prior to marauder, zerker amulet was marauder stats.

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Prior to Marauder, every PvP players using Berserker are dumb…lolz.

Well prior to marauder, zerker amulet was marauder stats.

Nah, the Prec stats on old Berserker was on spot at 600 (iirc). Marauder gives 1050 Prec which has too many wasted stats points. If they swap the values for Prec and Ferocity, making Prec 560 and Ferocity 1050, then that would be something worth taking.

It used to be that you don’t need a lot of points to get the right amount of crit damage, but ever since they added Ferocity…560 from amulet is too low. You need at least 900 to make it worth it.

As far as low HP classes go, thieves are the difficult one in the Marauder debate. It really comes down to three things. This is from a PVE perspective.

#1: Thresholds of survival and healing capacitance. Health is restored after any fight, so any additional health after the minimum is excess. Thus, there is a certain threshold of health you need to hit. This threshold isn’t a hard number, as it is dependent on the fight, and can be thought of as a series of attacks, let alone one single attack. For example, while wandering around in HoT maps it takes 3 “volleys” from frog archers to take me down. Changing my gearset from zerker to marauder would increase this to 4 volleys, buying me that extra attack.

In long fights, this survivability threshold is governed by healing capacitance. This is the capability for your character to receive heals. Thieves have high personal healing, but low healing capacitance, which is why glass thieves are either at full health, or kissing pavement. A larger amount of health, while increasing the threshold, also increases the amount of healing received, which thieves to survive more attacks in the long run.

#2: Damage uptime. The advantage of a higher threshold + healing capacitance is longer engagement time. At low thresholds, once a thief reaches the one-hit-until-death range, they have to back off, or they risk dying. The cost of disengaging is dependent on how good the ranged damage is, and for thieves this isn’t good. So, by having a longer melee time thieves have a higher damage overall.

#3: Failure rate and skill level. The fact is that exchanging 9% damage for 50% more health makes an overall more efficient and powerful character. The only reason why this debate exists is because, in theory, it is possible to complete content without needing any additional health at all. But, if you shouldn’t happen to have that peak leet skill like most players, then the time for failure needs to be factored in. A death is the biggest DPS penalty you can suffer, since it involves all of the damage done being reversed and the additional travel time. A failure is essentially the same as doing negative DPS. While most trials are geared per fight, the fact is that time wasted on a failed fight is never reset. That time still eats away at the overall DPS of a gear prefix.

So, if you should find yourself dying, then Marauder will be better than berserker.

Previously, the question was this: “Do all 3 of the above advantages compensate for doing 9% less damage?”. But… things are complicated now. It is all due to two little words: Enrage Timers.

In a raid setting, individual survivability per fight doesn’t mean a darn thing. Either you have the DPS or you don’t. You die in 8 minutes anyway, so repetition and perfecting play with maximum damage are a necessity. Previously, these weren’t necessary. Because of this, the biggest advantage of a reduced failure rate is tossed out. Now, whether Marauder does more damage than Zerker is on an individual fight-by-fight basis.

So the question now is “Does the increased melee engagement time and higher healing capacitance make up for the 9% decrease in direct damage”. To that end, I’m not so sure. I haven’t set foot in raids, so I have no idea what the damage thresholds are like there.

I’m curious, since we seem to have number-crunching folk kicking about here – what would the numbers look like on a thief running Soldier’s armour and berserker’s trinkets? (weapons could go either way)

just wondering, thanks.

Just go armor. Use Zerker weapons and trinkets. Use power infusions. Its barely any dps loss. I tried it on warrior. I only have 34 less power since I was using precice infusions before. Since Maru has more precision I took them out. Berserker spec converts precision to crit damage so my crit damage is literally the same as a full ascended non besrserk spec. Mean wile I have 3k more HP. Seems like a good trade off.