Guild Wars 2

A lot of thief utility skills were designed for a time and place that no longer exists.. This once staple needs a refresh in my opinion so as to make it more usable in the current meta of confusion stacks and AOE applying conditions which abound.

Some have suggested putting the cleanse on the first part of the step. I will suggest instead that to that first part we add.

Gain 3 s resistance.

Keep the current ICD. (to ensure we do no recreate permanent resistance as we have with warrior). In all other ways it remains the same. This would make the skill much more tactically useful in that the thief is given some time after the first port to decide whether to port back in and cleanse. This would help deal with confusion and would allow a thief to port back into that aoe and cleanse without just having conditions instantly reapplied. IT could better be used offensively as well wherein a thief can port into all that chaos , get a hit or two in and pull back out.

If 3 seconds two long it can be dropped to 2 but I do not think going over 3 warranted. Resistance is very powerful and should not be available so easily that it completely neutralizes conditions as can be done with the warrior. With a 50 second ICD even a thief with high boon duration could not scrape up more than 6 seconds of this every 40 seconds and add a huge cost to get to that point.

Adding evade frame to Shadowstep will solve a lot of these issues. Shadow Refuge should be the skill that grants Resistance plus Stability.

Shadow Refuge with Resistance and Stability?! While I agree it is a little underwhelming in its current state, adding these two boons would make it quite over powered for rezing/stomping.

Why not make SR not have a tell for enemies? All it is is a giant bullseye as is, and remove the self reveal from leaving it which is the stupidest mechanic in the whole game.

Sorry baba- didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Let’s get back to the topic before it get derailed.

Blaqatak.1395:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Why not make SR not have a tell for enemies? All it is is a giant bullseye as is, and remove the self reveal from leaving it which is the stupidest mechanic in the whole game.

Because the counter-play options are what allow SR to grant so much stealth in the first place, while still remaining a balanced ability.

Take Blinding Powder if you want guaranteed access to stealth with no counter-play.

Yet Stealth Gyro is a thing, which doesn’t give the scrapper self revealed when forced out of the ape stealth field the stacked stealth sticks, and it’s mobile and it has more functionality than SR.

So again how would it be unbalanced?

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

That’s why my suggestion for it to have an evade frame.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

That’s why my suggestion for it to have an evade frame.

Would the evade frame stop warding effects?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

That’s why my suggestion for it to have an evade frame.

Would the evade frame stop warding effects?

It will work no different than dodging. If dodge cannot enter/exit a ward, Shadowstep shouldn’t either, otherwise that’s just too strong.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

That’s why my suggestion for it to have an evade frame.

Would the evade frame stop warding effects?

It will work no different than dodging. If dodge cannot enter/exit a ward, Shadowstep shouldn’t either, otherwise that’s just too strong.

As it stands right now Dodges can’t whether or exit, they knock you down Shadowsteps can exit them but you still get knocked down since it is a traveling ability.

I have to say it… I hope they don’t change anything on this skill. It is almost a guarantee if ANet goes near it even for a buff, they will screw it up and we will be stuck with a kitten version.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One way to fix Shadowstep, make it an actual port again instead of a travel skill.

That’s really not the problem. It should be that if the skill confirms a walk-able path to the target that it should teleport to the target area 100% of a time. The fact that it rechecks the path after the skill confirmation is the one that causes the problem.

Another issue is that it seems the walk-able path has a maximum distance, probably 1200 (unless specified). If you’re trying to teleport to a target 900 distance away, but due to a gap between you and your target, to get to that target in melee range the you would have to walk around about 1500 distance, then the Shadowstep will simply port forward and fail.

One thing I have with it is it procs anything like test of faith, or wards causing the knock down.

That’s why my suggestion for it to have an evade frame.

Would the evade frame stop warding effects?

It will work no different than dodging. If dodge cannot enter/exit a ward, Shadowstep shouldn’t either, otherwise that’s just too strong.

As it stands right now Dodges can’t whether or exit, they knock you down Shadowsteps can exit them but you still get knocked down since it is a traveling ability.

I’m personally fine with that. I don’t want to invalidate the design of the ward by giving Thief an escape. In as much as I’d like to have that, I don’t believe that would be healthy for the Thief and would typically end up balancing the skills with shadowstep with a nasty nerf.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Adding evade frame to Shadowstep will solve a lot of these issues. Shadow Refuge should be the skill that grants Resistance plus Stability.

The problem I have with evade frames is along the same lines as why I am against adding more blocks to a Guardian.

We have a pile of skills with evade frames AND effects like Regen/ini gain/vigor/heal/condition cleanse along with that damage mitigation that happens on every evade.

Now adding an evade frame to a skill that has such a long cooldown would on its own be no big deal but when coupled with all the other skills and traits that both evade and proc on evade are something different.

As example Bandits defense has a very low cooldown and is very usable yet I do not consider it as OP on a thief. It our one and only block and we do not have any things that proc on a block.

Give that same BD to a Guardian and it massively OP as they have so many blocks already and so many effects that proc when a block occurs.

A thief has very little access to resistance so much like that BD it not going to get to the point where like a warrior they can have it up 100 percent of the time. If offers a benefit that gives a valid at the moment choice after the forst part of the step used. Do I remain here and just let the Resistance run out and lose the chance at a return to cleanse conditions, or do I go right back into the conflict and get my hits in while the resistance up.?

An evade frame to the return does not do that it becomes I need to cleanse I need to return.

The evade frame on the return will aslo not do anything about those confusion stacks on you when you do that return.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Adding evade frame to Shadowstep will solve a lot of these issues. Shadow Refuge should be the skill that grants Resistance plus Stability.

The problem I have with evade frames is along the same lines as why I am against adding more blocks to a Guardian.

We have a pile of skills with evade frames AND effects like Regen/ini gain/vigor/heal/condition cleanse along with that damage mitigation that happens on every evade.

Now adding an evade frame to a skill that has such a long cooldown would on its own be no big deal but when coupled with all the other skills and traits that both evade and proc on evade are something different.

As example Bandits defense has a very low cooldown and is very usable yet I do not consider it as OP on a thief. It our one and only block and we do not have any things that proc on a block.

I’m sorry but I don’t buy this because we have RFI as utility and it’s fine. Shadowstep (ability) and Shadowstep (skill) needs to evolve and evasion frame for the SS ability is one way to do it (I’m ok with Invulnerability frame too..we’re talking about stepping into shadows here). Adding Resistance to a skill that already cleanses is a bit much for a single skill. Since it would be the only skill that has Resistance, it will be a mandatory pick — however, it is a selfish skill. Giving Resitance to Shadow Refuge can benefit others, not just the Thief.

Give that same BD to a Guardian and it massively OP as they have so many blocks already and so many effects that proc when a block occurs.

A thief has very little access to resistance so much like that BD it not going to get to the point where like a warrior they can have it up 100 percent of the time.

Fair point.

If offers a benefit that gives a valid at the moment choice after the forst part of the step used. Do I remain here and just let the Resistance run out and lose the chance at a return to cleanse conditions, or do I go right back into the conflict and get my hits in while the resistance up.?

For Shadowstep (skill), you use it because you need to and typically because you need to cleanse. Removing that need by adding Resistance trivializes the cleanse. I mean I’m already Resisting the conditions, why do I have to cleanse them?

An evade frame to the return does not do that it becomes I need to cleanse I need to return.

The evade frame on the return will aslo not do anything about those confusion stacks on you when you do that return.

Not if you have Resistance up. What evade does is, it adds skill to Shadowstep. I need to cleanse so I need to evade the next attack or AoE I need to Shadowstep. Then you Shadow Return if that was not enough and maybe timing another attack for on evade proc.

Interesting… I wouldn’t mind Shadowstep (or shadowstepping) to clear certain “controls.”

The other day, I engaged a Dragonhunter on point. I was losing, so I turned tail and run. It was a really quick engagement. Got hit, dodged through traps, then used the full range of Shadowstep to create distance so I could escape. About a quarter of a second later, I’m pulled 1,200+ (probably closer to 1,500) units backs right to another trap on point.

So yeah, I wouldn’t mind if Shadowstep broke “tethers” or other such things. I’m assuming I got speared after I turned my camera from the opponent so I could run, but before the actual Shadowstep. Oh well… it was an exciting flight back to the point… a long one also :-P

Kageseigi.2150:

Interesting… I wouldn’t mind Shadowstep (or shadowstepping) to clear certain “controls.”

The other day, I engaged a Dragonhunter on point. I was losing, so I turned tail and run. It was a really quick engagement. Got hit, dodged through traps, then used the full range of Shadowstep to create distance so I could escape. About a quarter of a second later, I’m pulled 1,200+ (probably closer to 1,500) units backs right to another trap on point.

So yeah, I wouldn’t mind if Shadowstep broke “tethers” or other such things. I’m assuming I got speared after I turned my camera from the opponent so I could run, but before the actual Shadowstep. Oh well… it was an exciting flight back to the point… a long one also :-P

I present you combination of shadowstep and guard pull! Only fix is to relog :|

Cynz.9437:

I present you combination of shadowstep and guard pull! Only fix is to relog :|

That makes me think… why does Scorpion Wire get obstructed so easily even on “even” ground, but other pulls (Guardian, Necromancer, etc.) will easily pull you down off of walls and ledges?

Does Scorpion Wire actually “pull” like normal? Or does it use “shadowstep” mechanics?

Kageseigi.2150:

Cynz.9437:

I present you combination of shadowstep and guard pull! Only fix is to relog :|

That makes me think… why does Scorpion Wire get obstructed so easily even on “even” ground, but other pulls (Guardian, Necromancer, etc.) will easily pull you down off of walls and ledges?

Does Scorpion Wire actually “pull” like normal? Or does it use “shadowstep” mechanics?

scorpion wire projectile flies close to the ground and its one of the slowest projectiles in game after thief sb2 so its easy to obstruct it even by sidestepping it without any dodge

DH pull on the other hand is extremely fast also it flies as straight as a pistol/gun shot, its probably one of the best projectiles in game