I’ll weigh in. I play a DD Cele Ele as my main.
In the current meta of celestial professions, the idea of a profession built on bursting an enemy down quickly just doesn’t make sense. On my ele, I can usually survive a Thief’s burst rotation and turn the fight by simply using lightning shield into an updraft/blazing speed/lightning flash/fire grab/drake’s breath combo. It’s just too easy to still be tanky while tossing out bits of damage here and there on a lot of other professions for a Thief to handle for too long.
The longer the fight lasts, the higher the chance is the Thief will lose.
Very much so. Actually, the only reason I believe thieves are even remotely viable in sPvP currently is because of the boon-based meta; they have very good ways to steal boons at very precise moments fairly frequently. With boon builds out of the equation, I do believe it would be seen nowhere in more competitive sPvP matches, except maybe perhaps P/D conditions. sPvP damage values for the other thief builds are too low, and defenses are too high compared to say, WvW, where the damage across the board is ramped way up and defenses are substantially lower on all classes unless they build for it, and thieves when played well can and will kill other players in one strike – if they build with no defense outside of say, cloak and dagger and HiS. I say this because I have done it and continue to do it.
I want to state now that of all of my thief games, P/P + S/D Clerics/Dwayna bunker does the best job. Damage builds just do not work.
(edited by DeceiverX.8361)
Thief isn’t dead in spvp it’s almost dead. The only reliable thing we do now is porting around making sure we out number our opponents and decaping as fast as possible. Any team shouldn’t have a problem with any thief as long as they coordinate themselves. sigh I main a thief for almost a year now. Anet please do something about this and give us a true buff for once.==PS: ricochet isn’t better than bountiful theft. Buff something else that’s useful.
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs - yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
Spoken like someone, who meet thieves everyday at the WvW maps and laughing from reading threads like this.
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
Spoken like someone, who meet thieves everyday at the WvW maps and laughing from reading threads like this.
This is about sPvP, not WvW.
Did you read the discussion at all about the huge gap in effectiveness of the thief in WvW and sPvP?
Also, thieves built for it already deal 20k stabs in WvW, like me.
But even then, it’s harder to play than anything else and only works in specific encounters, so should it not be rewarded for what it does well?
P/D dire perplex is MUCH stronger in WvW than any DPS build on a thief, too. Ask almost any well-established thief which is better at roaming.
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
Spoken like someone, who meet thieves everyday at the WvW maps and laughing from reading threads like this.
This is about sPvP, not WvW.
Did you read the discussion at all about the huge gap in effectiveness of the thief in WvW and sPvP?
Also, thieves built for it already deal 20k stabs in WvW, like me.
But even then, it’s harder to play than anything else and only works in specific encounters, so should it not be rewarded for what it does well?P/D dire perplex is MUCH stronger in WvW than any DPS build on a thief, too. Ask almost any well-established thief which is better at roaming.
Any ideas hwo they can increase thieves effectivness in the cPvP, but not affect it in WvW?
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
Spoken like someone, who meet thieves everyday at the WvW maps and laughing from reading threads like this.
This is about sPvP, not WvW.
Did you read the discussion at all about the huge gap in effectiveness of the thief in WvW and sPvP?
Also, thieves built for it already deal 20k stabs in WvW, like me.
But even then, it’s harder to play than anything else and only works in specific encounters, so should it not be rewarded for what it does well?P/D dire perplex is MUCH stronger in WvW than any DPS build on a thief, too. Ask almost any well-established thief which is better at roaming.
Any ideas hwo they can increase thieves effectivness in the cPvP, but not affect it in WvW?
nerf celestial ami and might stacking, duhh
You’re obviously a troll man give it up already
I am the idiot and I am the one who is stupid when your ability to type just ONE coherent sentence is lacking
You do not even PvP LOL
You do realize that there’s a whole area of the game called WvW? And that group size isn’t limited by numbers on a tidy little map?
The disconnect here and in most thief threads is that balancing tends to focus on PvP without regard to WvW. It’s different in many ways.
As to your comments about thieves in PvP, if your only options are dodging because you can’t actually kill anything, that’s a problem. It sounds to me like the thieves you’re describing could fill their role without weapons at all. Several people have already mentioned it, but you don’t seem to want to discuss anything. If you really want to talk about something, please explain to we morons how that’s a good thing. Then take some time to break down thieves in WvW. If you’re a master thief and pvp’er, I’m more than willing to listen to any advice you’ve got to offer.
Yeah I am rank 500+ in WvW mostly solo roaming on my Thief I am well aware of the issues in WvW
Guess what? There is no balance disconnect – the game is PURPOSELY balanced with PvP in mind. WvW with food, ascended, stacks, blah blah never going to be balanced. When my Necromancer can put on Dire/Perplexity/40% Condi Food do you actually think that game mode is balanced or will ever be? The answer is no. The devs barely care about WvW.
No actually a Thief NEEDS weapons – S/D provides evades and ports that ignore LOS the shortbow provides probably the best port in the game – that is called UNRIVALED mobility which is what keeps the Thief relevant in this game
Thief actually can kill people – The enemy Thief/Mesmer/Necro/Engi are primary targets for a Thief – The role of the Thief is to not waste time against a Bunker Guard/Warr/Ele in a 1v1 – instead you should be hunting the squishy classes – helping your team burst down targets in out numbered fights – and most importantly abuse your mobility to decap the enemy nodes that are left empty
Any other questions? I am honestly happy to help
What I do not like is people who have been playing the game for a few weeks/months use garbage builds in PvP and claim that the class is broken and unplayable
necro and eng are primary targets of a theif? you’ve never played a good necro or engineer then.
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Spoken like someone who went from post 1 straight to the comment field.
Spoken like someone, who meet thieves everyday at the WvW maps and laughing from reading threads like this.
This is about sPvP, not WvW.
Did you read the discussion at all about the huge gap in effectiveness of the thief in WvW and sPvP?
Also, thieves built for it already deal 20k stabs in WvW, like me.
But even then, it’s harder to play than anything else and only works in specific encounters, so should it not be rewarded for what it does well?P/D dire perplex is MUCH stronger in WvW than any DPS build on a thief, too. Ask almost any well-established thief which is better at roaming.
Any ideas hwo they can increase thieves effectivness in the cPvP, but not affect it in WvW?
They could start by reverting some of the sPvP-exclusive nerfs like those to Cloak and Dagger, however beyond that point, there is little out there seeing as most of the potential comes from high critical damage/ferocity, which is also substantially lower as a stat generally speaking in sPvP and toughness/armor values generally higher than WvW.
Just read some old post, and seems it’s true…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Has-thief-been-nerfed
I am not the only one who has the total frustration…
(edited by Keyboardwarrior.8021)
Does any one have good thief pvp video? not in wvw… but pvp. Welcome to post here ^
It’s clear that you are a really terrible pvper keyboard warrior. First of all, you complain about backstab being around 2.7k. Well, learn how to position properly. Because that’s clearly a FRONT stab. Then you eat a full 18k from a ranger? Hey, here’s an idea for you. Dodge. My god. Isn’t that amazing? “But I didn’t have any dodges left”. My god, here’s an idea for you. Drop pistol 5 and heart seeker into it while shadow stepping BEHIND the ranger. OR! Shadowstep behind the ranger, drop pistol 5, heart seeker into it and return at the same time. “Too advanced for me, no can do”. Well…
LEARN TO PLAY.
It’s clear that you are a really terrible pvper keyboard warrior. First of all, you complain about backstab being around 2.7k. Well, learn how to position properly. Because that’s clearly a FRONT stab. Then you eat a full 18k from a ranger? Hey, here’s an idea for you. Dodge. My god. Isn’t that amazing? “But I didn’t have any dodges left”. My god, here’s an idea for you. Drop pistol 5 and heart seeker into it while shadow stepping BEHIND the ranger. OR! Shadowstep behind the ranger, drop pistol 5, heart seeker into it and return at the same time. “Too advanced for me, no can do”. Well…
LEARN TO PLAY.
Have you really tried what you said here? drop pistol 5 and heart seeker while rapid fire is following your b.u.tt? try it before you gave all these kitten here.
You won’t get into stealth while rapid fire is on your kitten that way, that’s first, second, even you went into stealth somehow, rapid fire still follows you. The story is when you finish all these stuff, you already eat the entire rapid fire, and you think the ranger will just standing there and watch you get closer? they can go into stealth or push your back easily…. The right situation is probably the ranger finishes you before you even have chance to cast pistol 5 or stand back from that push down, try it yourself, good player Lettuce.2945..
Or they push you down first, there was a sec animation, you drop pistol 5, that’s another 1.5 sec animation, and then HS… that’s around 2-3 sec, you are dead already… i.d.i.o.t ^
Even if you managed to HS out while eating the rapid fire and they can just simple press button 3 to get into stealth, or push you back…
What a joke you put here ^ I took the entire 18k damage in 3 sec while I was fighting another person.
Please don’t just use your imagination and bu.l.l. kitten here. Really a troll….
(edited by Keyboardwarrior.8021)
I actually have pulled it off many times. Bad pvper. Just stop trolling and stop being true to your name.
Keyboardwarrior.8021
Have you ever tried to turn your camera around? You know, "pop from nowhere" - something specific to thieves only, not for rangers, sad but true.
In the another thread was approved, what thieves can easily jump for up to 5000 range to the poor ranger. So I have no idea what you are talking about now: drop pistol 5 ... HS ... seconds of animation... eating Rapid Fire ...
I actually have pulled it off many times. Bad pvper. Just stop trolling and stop being true to your name.
First you came to my post and claim I am a bad player while yourself haven’t post any real video or evidence that shows you are a better one… but wrote all these kitten to annoying people… that’s just really troll….
Pay attention to my post, I have printscreens, videos, posts from others to support my point, on the other hand, you have nothing but your empty words from your empty brain that shows us your empty soul….
Second, unless you post your video here, or any proof to support your statement, your word is basically useless and pointless, so please save yourself and us some time… Anyone or I can write some even bigger words than yours… trust me… this doesn’t make you look better… just make you look like a dumb immature…
(edited by Keyboardwarrior.8021)
Keyboardwarrior.8021
Have you ever tried to turn your camera around? You know, “pop from nowhere” – something specific to thieves only, not for rangers, sad but true.
In the another thread was approved, what thieves can easily jump for up to 5000 range to the poor ranger. So I have no idea what you are talking about now: drop pistol 5 … HS … seconds of animation… eating Rapid Fire …
To jump 5000 range, it takes time, and during this time range, rangers can do a lot things too. Thieves have to switch weapons to SB to jump 5000 I guess, and to switch back to dagger, it takes another period of time. Normally in pvp, when you know it’s ranger’s attack, such as rapid fire or 1500 cc, it’s the time when you get hit by it already, there is no warning, no indication. Most of the time thieves really can not turn camera around during the fight, as they have to manage a lot more to land a backstab, including timing, target position etc … not like rangers just press or spam buttons. A lot of times, rangers just initiate the attack right at the moment when they turn around the corner or step up on a high land, those 1500 range cc or attack is nothing different than “pop from nowhere” most of the time in pvp, so sadly your statement is not true but bias…
Since you don’t know what I was talking about, I don’t want to waste time with you here.
(edited by Keyboardwarrior.8021)
These are not from me but from others in this forum:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PvP-Guide-for-new-Thiefs-in-Ranked-Arenas/first#post4670734
So to summarize it from this pro player’s video is what thief should do in ranked arena…
1. Take a point while nobody there, once someone comes, run for your life!
2. Don’t jump in to even a fight, thief can not even a fight, leave to ele and others, keep running…
3. Your job is to clean salvage kills….
4. As a thief, you probably can only face another thief or mes, if others coming, keep running…
5. keep running and report what you see…..
here is another one:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Has-thief-been-nerfed
Another one:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Hambow-a-thief-counter/first#post4685103
another one:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Raise-health-pool-to-match-mesmer/first#post4675237
Pvp is like concentrated wvw fight, 10 people crowed in a small map, you engage a fight every few second, the map is full of AOE damage and CC which does more damage than single target spells, stealth can not fully protect you in most of the case, besides, channel skills can follow you even you are in stealth, not mention AOE skills, blind and stealth is useless when facing AOE damage and CC, with the least HP pool, weak armor, weak burst damage. Thief is actually useless in pvp, what thieves can do is just running around or clean salvage kills.
your full burst is available every 15 seconds at least, your opponents defensive skills are mostly available every 20 seconds+. if you cant poke your opponent and force them to use their defences leaving them open for an easy kill then i dont know =|
from what i see thief isnt ment to be stab “kitten i win with my 20k backstab” you do need to work for it like the rest of the classes
8k backstabs, 6k+ HSs – yeah, so underpowered class, buff them Anet please! Thieves needs in 20k backstabs and 15k heartseekers!
Did I ever ask for such an impossible damage output from any class in the game? 20k? XD don’t be a noob.6k heart seeker(May be possible currently). But think about it cost initiative requires the opponent to be at 50% lower to be effective with an obvious animation. I’m gonna give you an example, I’ve got an alt cele engi. Does 650condition damage. Might stacks to a point where it’s close to 20, has loads of bombs and tools not to mention jump shot can hit up to 3k or more,skill 2 imob, skill4 knockback and etc. you know what I’m talking about if you’ve been in gw2 long enough. I didn’t ask for much damage but at least give us a little bit more sustain. Oh and thieves can’t stack might as much as this extremist with god forsaken high sustain(engineer). Rangers shouldn’t have a problem cause all they have to do is stay away from danger zones and pew themselves to victory. Thieves can barely take down good guards if they’re forced to 1v1. All I want is a bit more sustain without having to sacrifice much damage. I agree that thieves aren’t suppose to 1v1 and win all the time and that capturing points might be more important then again don’t you think it’s kind of unfair if a team containing 5 thieves can never win if they’re faced with experienced players.
(edited by Nephrite.6954)
From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.
You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.
Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…
That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.
You do know that in the current Meta there are a lot of ez mode builds? Did he call out your specific Staff Ele build?(who would consider playing staff ele in a spvp environment anyway) No. He was pointing out the many ez mode builds out there compared to the current thief meta. Thief is in a decent spot, it just requires more skill than other Professions builds at the moment. Instead of buffing thief, builds such as the spammy grenade, bomb, turret engis need to be looked at, as well as the ranger LB/GS. Thief can beat these builds, in the hands of the right player. We dont need a cheesy build or buff that creates one, thief should always remain a class that demands tact and skill.
Maybe you want to read what OP said and what I actually said in reply to a specific portion of what was said.
BTW I do play a staff ele in spvp and WvW (solo roaming included) it works very well. I, however, would not dare call it “ez mode” even if I do have a lot of AoE that the OP allude to be what makes something “ez”.
I face tons of zero risk builds. I know what they look like and it is not their AoE that makes it ez for them but how many mistakes they can make before they get into trouble. How many mistake do you think you can make with a zerker geared staff ele you think?
Bahahahahahahahaha if the thief doesn’t kill you if you’re on your STAFF ELE then either he is new or a noob.
Rangers shouldn’t have a problem cause all they have to do is stay away from danger zones and pew themselves to victory. Thieves can barely take down good guards if they’re forced to 1v1.
If thieves will lost all gap closers – OK. But now, with no problem jumps up to 5000 – no way
Kill good guardian just impossible for Zerk ranger.
Rangers shouldn’t have a problem cause all they have to do is stay away from danger zones and pew themselves to victory. Thieves can barely take down good guards if they’re forced to 1v1.
If thieves will lost all gap closers – OK. But now, with no problem jumps up to 5000 – no way
Kill good guardian just impossible for Zerk ranger.
How many builds does a ranger have to take out a guard? How many variations of builds does a thief have to effectively take out a guard? Check the meta or make a build of some sort and post it here for thieves please. I urge you try.
I actually have pulled it off many times. Bad pvper. Just stop trolling and stop being true to your name.
I get that you’re trying to redeem some dignity by lying but I’m betting that non of us are dumb enough to believe anything you state after your previous comment.
Have you really tried what you said here? drop pistol 5 and heart seeker while rapid fire is following your b.u.tt? try it before you gave all these kitten here.
You won’t get into stealth while rapid fire is on your kitten that way, that’s first, second, even you went into stealth somehow, rapid fire still follows you.
The only real counter to LB Ranger is what I have already posted here. If they snipe you from a distance, you need to dodge backwards. Getting out of range also interrupts Rapid Fire.
Positioning is also important. If there’s a Ranger on the other team, you should not be travelling on an open field — you should always think about your exit strategy. Keep an eye out for corners you can use for LoS.
If they get the first strike on you, you already lost that battle, no need to try and get that Ranger because more than likely that you’ve already blown half of your Initiatives just to trying to get away.
The sad thing is, I get better result playing my Ranger than my Thief using S/D.
I actually have pulled it off many times. Bad pvper. Just stop trolling and stop being true to your name.
I get that you’re trying to redeem some dignity by lying but I’m betting that non of us are dumb enough to believe anything you state after your previous comment.
It’s a very simple combo to pull off….Shadowstep behind ranger…Drop blinding powder…Heartseeker into it…and shadow return as you heart seeker. Stealth applies and you return to your original position while wasting the ranger’s rapid fire. And you are free to burst him. Don’t believe me? Feel free to 1 v 1 me.
I actually have pulled it off many times. Bad pvper. Just stop trolling and stop being true to your name.
I get that you’re trying to redeem some dignity by lying but I’m betting that non of us are dumb enough to believe anything you state after your previous comment.
It’s a very simple combo to pull off….Shadowstep behind ranger…Drop blinding powder…Heartseeker into it…and shadow return as you heart seeker. Stealth applies and you return to your original position while wasting the ranger’s rapid fire. And you are free to burst him. Don’t believe me? Feel free to 1 v 1 me.
1v1 is a sad way to prove a point.
First of all, if the Ranger get the first strike on you, as I have said above, you’ve already blown half your Initiatives and in your case, you even blow your stun break to just make some magic trick that will never work.
Second, once you engage an LB Ranger, they would either push you back or go in stealth and swap to their melee weapon.
Lastly, you’re assuming that you’re not playing against an LB+S/D Trap Ranger. Since you already blown your stun break, you’re a sitting duck once they get you with Entagled or other CCs.
your full burst is available every 15 seconds at least, your opponents defensive skills are mostly available every 20 seconds+. if you cant poke your opponent and force them to use their defences leaving them open for an easy kill then i dont know =|
from what i see thief isnt ment to be stab “kitten i win with my 20k backstab” you do need to work for it like the rest of the classes
The problem is lot of classes don’t even need defense skills to fight a thief, some AOE spam can not only keep thief away but damage him real hard… have you ever seen an Engi pop blocks on some thieve’s attack? or mes, or nec?
Besides, a lot of offensive skills can do defense job, such as push back, CC, stuns, all AOE … so they can switch between offense and defense skills to keep a melee glass away while melting them down fast… that’s where the frustration comes from….. high HP pool, high armor, AOE spam damage higher than single target spells and high condi damage make glass class unplayable or at least not enjoyable… what’s the point of rolling a glass not so cannon while there are some class higher on every state….
On my SD thief I regularly destroy all other meta specs in 1v1. Sounds like a L2P issue my friend. You cant play whatever spec you want and expect to kill everything. This is PvP land bro, learn to adapt or go home (to WvW).
- Teef Teef Teef Teef #2 Thief NA
I know I’m going against what I’m about to say, but:
Just let it go…
Erm. I mean let the thread die.
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