shoot people and when you proc quickness spam unload and steal in the middle of the unload been playing around all night and have topped every game. roam and gun don’t try to hold points its not a bunker build amd know when to run its like ranged pistol whip but not as boring
OK.I will be the first,who dare to leap on a trojan soil…
With somehow limited access to Stealth and no traits for more dodging aren’t you too squishy?Is Black Powder enough?I can see this work great in a big fights, when enemy is occupied with someone else,but when they focus you and/or 1v1 fights?….What are your UI skills?
Ss Ninja- Rank 50 Asura Condition Thief (The Bulgarians [BG])
My Ringtones on Zedge >>>C l i c k <<<
P/P has never been OP, and it’s not a 5% damage boost – if traited – that will change this, it is ok properly built and with decent reflexes and awarness.
You’re refering to a burst that includes quickness which pretty much makes any burst look like it’s ultra powerful.
And while he’s boasting with that kind of build i’m pretty sure a p/d thief would indeed eat you as well as anything including a bit of defense.
well hasn’t happened yet :o guess I got good reflexes p/d thieves haven’t really bothered of me yet but then again majority of the time in wvw I use p/d and do fairly well so I know what to expect
i doubt that somebody will allow you to shot them with pistols as glass cannon
maybe npc’s
As for unload : when you start unload i dodge roll to close distance gap… you either intrerupt and run or die
I do not say is an bad build, i just say is not viable in wvw/sPvP. Reason is simple – D/D will do more damage /second. Shortbow gives better mobility and allow you to move betwen shots, without lose damage.
well, if you played p/d before you already know the answer, sneak attack and autos, but when you have berserker gear, and ruby orbs, (I currently only have blues mostly and a couple greens) on other lvl 80s in wvw im auto attacking them for 700-1k and sneak attacks for 2500-3500, I don’t do tpvp, but in spvp hot joins, im usually doing 500-700 and 2-3k sneaks and CnDs are usually 2k.just think about how easy already it is to land a cnd sneak and autoattacking that much from range with all the stealth to help you evade
If I remember correctly, Sigils that trigger on critical hits share the cooldown. So 45 seconds after you get quickness, you won’t see any fires.
Yeah, Sigil of Rage is terrible, especially if you’re basing your build around “wait for random sigil to proc, then be awesome for 3 seconds every 45 seconds”.
Pistol is far from overpowered, especially with a setup like the one in this thread.
well, if you played p/d before you already know the answer, sneak attack and autos, but when you have berserker gear, and ruby orbs, (I currently only have blues mostly and a couple greens) on other lvl 80s in wvw im auto attacking them for 700-1k and sneak attacks for 2500-3500, I don’t do tpvp, but in spvp hot joins, im usually doing 500-700 and 2-3k sneaks and CnDs are usually 2k.just think about how easy already it is to land a cnd sneak and autoattacking that much from range with all the stealth to help you evade
Ahhh ok, I thought p/d was more effective as a condition damage.
well, if you played p/d before you already know the answer, sneak attack and autos, but when you have berserker gear, and ruby orbs, (I currently only have blues mostly and a couple greens) on other lvl 80s in wvw im auto attacking them for 700-1k and sneak attacks for 2500-3500, I don’t do tpvp, but in spvp hot joins, im usually doing 500-700 and 2-3k sneaks and CnDs are usually 2k.just think about how easy already it is to land a cnd sneak and autoattacking that much from range with all the stealth to help you evade
Ahhh ok, I thought p/d was more effective as a condition damage.
I prefer P/D style AS a condition damage build, since Sneak attack can stack a good number of bleeds alongside the auto attack, add in some Spider Venom, Devourer Venom, and Basilisk Venom combined with the Venomous Aura trait, you become very effective at shutting down a target with your team. (I play in sPvP though, and sometimes forego Devourer Venom for a stunbreak or stealth utility)
P/D is effective as a condition build, I’ve played it for a while, but I thought I do something different and to my surprise, going High precision/crit dmg is very effective too, if anything, before whenever I run into another p/d it was pretty much pointless pretty much a draw, but now it’s cake whenever I run into another p/d because I out damage them while having the same health regen and condition removal, and u still have Some >.> condition damage, only like half of, it still helps considering that im still stacking the same amount of bleed stacks for a nice but if dmg to top off my crit dmg
P/D has always been great as a condition build. The latest patch has done nothing to change this or buff it. No one is going to use Ricochet, and no P/D build is going to use Pistol Mastery.
I’ve been using a P/P build in sPvP and loving it, though. I don’t even think it needs buffed, to be honest. The extra 5% damage on Pistol Mastery is nice, but it’s definitely not near enough to think it’s all of the sudden OP.
for a glass cannon pistol thief you’re much better off going 25/30/0/0/15… the 10% dmg when target is under condition (from vital shot or ANY group play) is much stronger than that pityful chance at ricochet… which does what exactly? 1 extra hit IF there is another enemy around to bounce to?
which reminds me now… so what’s the general consensus on pistol thief? kiting and spamming unload or P/D with a bunch of cool tricks (all skills outside of body shot are useful… shadow strike to create a gap, dancing dagger to cripple, CnD to go into stealth then sneak attack) but not really having a high dmg skill… you would be relying on a rather weak auto-attack as your main dmg dealer… P/D seems like an annoying pvp build
I’m kind of stuck choosing between the 2… P/P seems to be much better for PvE and P/D better for PvP…
As far as i can tell, the build i’m running atm does pretty good, i think damage is alright.
What i’d like on the other hand, is something that would allow P/P to effectivly remove boons.
Nullification sigil is on a 10sec CD and doesn’t help much since the classes against whom boons removal proves efficient reapplies them way too fast.
Bountiful Theft is too deep into the trickery line to be a good option.
Maybe i’m wrong but i’d really like a trait dedicated exclusively to pistols that would remove boons. Maybe as an added effect to the infamous body shot, maybe as a crit proc, something like that.
My WvW build rolls more around getting guys to under 50% damage and unloading in my group. Once my guy is under 50% I got steal so I hit them with unload…steal (which puts fury up to max again along with might/swift)…by now I got 3 init back on steal but I usually was running low by this point anyways…so I roll for init and finish em off with a couple unload spams.
And it has just enough defense/toughness/stealth to bail when things go wrong.
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p). I’d also up the damage on Headshot and if your not going to lower the inti cost of black powder then at least make the damage on it nicer. Then I’d have to say.
I worry about making P/P damage too much because after all were still thieves who get away well.
Server: SoS Guild: Work
Verucalize: 80 Thief
Señor Chang: 80 Ranger
Been using this build for a while now, even before the patch. I like it a lot in sPvP. I was thinking about getting Mug, but couldn’t find anything worth sacrificing 10 points for. I also can’t see a reason to put more points in Shadow Arts. P/P as a whole is very lacking in stealth, and it doesn’t rely on it at all. I’ve been thinking about using Roll for Initiative instead of Shadowstep, but I can’t pull myself to actually take Shadowstep off my bar. I use it for way more than just running away or as a break stun.
I find it a lot of fun in sPvP, and I absolutely love offhand pistol. I’d use Dagger/Pistol if Shadow Shot didn’t root you.
I don’t think I’d like this build in WvW or PvE, though. Pistol is definitely not OP, either. Pistol Mastery was a nice buff, but not enough to make the damage all that good. Ricochet is still terrible, too.
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p).
Or they could just fix the animation issue causing it to fire at almost half the speed it’s supposed and consequently tunneling the viability of Pistols only to builds that min/max for Unload spamming.
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p).
Or they could just fix the animation issue causing it to fire at almost half the speed it’s supposed and consequently tunneling the viability of Pistols only to builds that min/max for Unload spamming.
Because P/D condition builds aren’t good or anything. Nope, totally not viable at all.
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p).
Or they could just fix the animation issue causing it to fire at almost half the speed it’s supposed and consequently tunneling the viability of Pistols only to builds that min/max for Unload spamming.
Because P/D condition builds aren’t good or anything. Nope, totally not viable at all.
The only way P/D is viable at all is by working everything around stealth blasting so that you cancel out any dependence at all on Vital Shot in a frantic and perpetual attempt to stop it from instantly cratering your DPS. It’s the exact same issue with P/P and Unload spamming. Both P/P and P/D are reliant on very specific min/max oriented set-ups to even come close to performing as well as pretty much any other set in the game can with a very thrown together and/or hybridized build.
You people just sound like you have an inferiority complex or something, like you can’t admit that something you’re playing is borked.
EDIT: i use Withdrawl, RoI, ShadowStep and thieves guild.
Plus my SB has superior sigil or energy.
No, it factually isn’t.
Care to give an explanation of whatever you meant to say?
I have given multiple explanations, as have many other people. MH Pistol is (still) seriously plagued by two big problems:
Vital Shot is severely underpowered, possibly the weakest autoattack in the game, due to a design issue with its animation/attack speed relative to its offensive stats. We’re not talking about something insignificant here, Vital Shot should be doing at least 30% more DPS than it currently does.
Body Shot is an overly situational utility and is far more often than not a counterproductive expenditure of Initiative.
Therefore, any build using Pistols will rely almost exclusively on the repeat usability of either the #3 skill (P/P) or the Sneak Attack (P/D) to maintain anything resembling adequate DPS, and in the former case there is the additional problem of lack of utility due to situational skills and starved initiative (meaning that P/D is actually a bit more functional overall than P/P is). In both cases, the efficacy is overly-reliant on gimmicky set-ups that exploit ways to avoid having to rely on Vital Shot to provide a steady baseline DPS the way it should be able to.
In any case, the problems with MH Pistol become very apparent if you play a rifle warrior or try to use it with a hybridized build.
EDIT: i use Withdrawl, RoI, ShadowStep and thieves guild.
Plus my SB has superior sigil or energy.
No, it factually isn’t.
Care to give an explanation of whatever you meant to say?
I have given multiple explanations, as have many other people. MH Pistol is (still) seriously plagued by two big problems:
Vital Shot is severely underpowered, possibly the weakest autoattack in the game, due to a design issue with its animation/attack speed relative to its offensive stats. We’re not talking about something insignificant here, Vital Shot should be doing at least 30% more DPS than it currently does.
Body Shot is an overly situational utility and is far more often than not a counterproductive expenditure of Initiative.
Therefore, any build using Pistols will rely almost exclusively on the repeat usability of either the #3 skill (P/P) or the Sneak Attack (P/D) to maintain anything resembling adequate DPS, and in the former case there is the additional problem of lack of utility due to situational skills and starved initiative. In both cases, there is a problem of them being very reliant on min/maxing to be even remotely effective.
In any case, the problems with MH Pistol become very apparent if you play a rifle warrior or try to use it with a hybridized build.
My dps is fine thank you in pve or WvW., and i enjoy my build.
EDIT: i use Withdrawl, RoI, ShadowStep and thieves guild.
Plus my SB has superior sigil or energy.
No, it factually isn’t.
Care to give an explanation of whatever you meant to say?
I have given multiple explanations, as have many other people. MH Pistol is (still) seriously plagued by two big problems:
Vital Shot is severely underpowered, possibly the weakest autoattack in the game, due to a design issue with its animation/attack speed relative to its offensive stats. We’re not talking about something insignificant here, Vital Shot should be doing at least 30% more DPS than it currently does.
Body Shot is an overly situational utility and is far more often than not a counterproductive expenditure of Initiative.
Therefore, any build using Pistols will rely almost exclusively on the repeat usability of either the #3 skill (P/P) or the Sneak Attack (P/D) to maintain anything resembling adequate DPS, and in the former case there is the additional problem of lack of utility due to situational skills and starved initiative. In both cases, there is a problem of them being very reliant on min/maxing to be even remotely effective.
In any case, the problems with MH Pistol become very apparent if you play a rifle warrior or try to use it with a hybridized build.
My dps is fine thank you in pve or WvW., and i enjoy my build.
You may enjoy your build, but that doesn’t mean Pistols are fine. Sorry to burst your bubble.
EDIT: i use Withdrawl, RoI, ShadowStep and thieves guild.
Plus my SB has superior sigil or energy.
No, it factually isn’t.
Care to give an explanation of whatever you meant to say?
I have given multiple explanations, as have many other people. MH Pistol is (still) seriously plagued by two big problems:
Vital Shot is severely underpowered, possibly the weakest autoattack in the game, due to a design issue with its animation/attack speed relative to its offensive stats. We’re not talking about something insignificant here, Vital Shot should be doing at least 30% more DPS than it currently does.
Body Shot is an overly situational utility and is far more often than not a counterproductive expenditure of Initiative.
Therefore, any build using Pistols will rely almost exclusively on the repeat usability of either the #3 skill (P/P) or the Sneak Attack (P/D) to maintain anything resembling adequate DPS, and in the former case there is the additional problem of lack of utility due to situational skills and starved initiative. In both cases, there is a problem of them being very reliant on min/maxing to be even remotely effective.
In any case, the problems with MH Pistol become very apparent if you play a rifle warrior or try to use it with a hybridized build.
My dps is fine thank you in pve or WvW., and i enjoy my build.
You may enjoy your build, but that doesn’t mean Pistols are fine. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’m sorry to burst your bubbles but there are people who think pistol is not as bad you you people think it is. I enjoy it and i agree there things that can be modify but if you think p/p is crap then you need to learn to play the game.
I’ve been using P/P a fair bit lately. It’s usable—I won 10/11 hot join matches with it as my secondary weapon set today—but it’s pretty weak. Whether or not it’s “crap” depends on the threshhold for crap. I don’t think I’d call it crap, but it needs a lot of help.
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p).
Or they could just fix the animation issue causing it to fire at almost half the speed it’s supposed and consequently tunneling the viability of Pistols only to builds that min/max for Unload spamming.
Sorry but that wouldn’t help jack in WvW (and I have over 120 hours of exp with P/P S&B in WvW on the #1 server). If I have to use Vital Shot at anytime it means I’ve exhausted my initiative completely and either my target is dead or I should be out of sight until I got some more intitiative to burn. When factoring in any changes with thief damage 2 things have to always be kept in mind……..stealth and the ranged factor. Those 2 things make us P/P’ers hard to kill..especially adding in the mobility movement of the shortbow (throw some chill on it for swap to…and no one is keeping up). You can’t make a P/P first tier damage or overnight you’ll kill off several classes.
By the way as someone who used to work in the field. The more you go on about this…the more likely the devs/community team have tuned you out as too obsessive about the subject and therefore blinded by it.
Server: SoS Guild: Work
Verucalize: 80 Thief
Señor Chang: 80 Ranger
The full list of things that are good about pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.
The full list of thing that Wild Bill uses from pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.
P/D is rather good because P/D pretty much ignores everything Pistol has but what happens when you use auto attack after C&D. Furthermore, this thread was trying to demonstrate that P/P is good, and P/P doesn’t even get organic access to Sneak Attack.
The full list of things that are good about pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.
The full list of thing that Wild Bill uses from pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.
P/D is rather good because P/D pretty much ignores everything Pistol has but what happens when you use auto attack after C&D. Furthermore, this thread was trying to demonstrate that P/P is good, and P/P doesn’t even get organic access to Sneak Attack.
I agree. Body Shot is arguably the most useless Thief weapon skill.Just compare it to the other weapons slot 2 skills. Heartseeker,Cluster Bomb,Infiltrators Strike .What choice do we have,except to rely on Sneak Attack.What else do we have?
Ss Ninja- Rank 50 Asura Condition Thief (The Bulgarians [BG])
My Ringtones on Zedge >>>C l i c k <<<
And any decent P/P isn’t using Vital Shot as anything more then filler in wvw anyways.
If anything I’d remove the bleed off Vital Shot and make it a burn so your not relying on it stacking (Call it powder burn or some crap ;p).
Or they could just fix the animation issue causing it to fire at almost half the speed it’s supposed and consequently tunneling the viability of Pistols only to builds that min/max for Unload spamming.
Sorry but that wouldn’t help jack in WvW (and I have over 120 hours of exp with P/P S&B in WvW on the #1 server). If I have to use Vital Shot at anytime it means I’ve exhausted my initiative completely and either my target is dead or I should be out of sight until I got some more intitiative to burn. When factoring in any changes with thief damage 2 things have to always be kept in mind……..stealth and the ranged factor. Those 2 things make us P/P’ers hard to kill..especially adding in the mobility movement of the shortbow (throw some chill on it for swap to…and no one is keeping up). You can’t make a P/P first tier damage or overnight you’ll kill off several classes.
By the way as someone who used to work in the field. The more you go on about this…the more likely the devs/community team have tuned you out as too obsessive about the subject and therefore blinded by it.
Frankly, your explanation is an illustration of exactly why Vital Shot is the main problem. With optimized builds that rely on Unload (P/P) and Sneak Attack (P/D), Pistols are only somewhat underpowered and can still be fairly viable. The reason why is because those builds are built around avoiding any reliance on Vital Shot, because doing so in any capacity immediately tanks your DPS. A dramatic improvement to Vital Shot would shore up the mediocre DPS of these builds by providing a stable base of damage in the interim, but since the bulk of the damage is still built around Unload/Sneak Attack (cutting into Vital Shot), it won’t really bump them into the OP range.
But with hybrid builds or in a supplemental role, both P/P and P/D are severely underpowered. The entire reason why is because Vital Shot, in doing roughly 66% of the damage it should be doing, utterly fails to manage a steady rhythm of baseline DPS on its own while being supplemented by other skills, which is the way Thief attacks are supposed to work. A dramatic boost to Vital Shot for these builds will actually make MH Pistols feel adequately strong while using them in general, such as while leveling or experimenting with your builds.
I’m not blinded by anything, it’s just a very, very obvious issue. So obvious it boggles my mind that there aren’t more people talking about it. Btw, I do QA myself.
